Uk Schools Should Be Like Thai Schools?

[johnrh]

Check out this article on the BBC website -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4194913.stm

Note there's a place at the bottom where you can send them your comments.

[Ijustwannateach]

I have already posted a reply to them- wonder if they'll print it? Here it is:

Dear Sirs,

I have been a primary and secondary school teacher for three years in the public schools of Thailand, both in the "normal" programmes and the so-called gifted/bilingual systems that have become more popular recently.  I read your article with interest, and have some information to add.

The surface of the Thai school system is much as your article describes; however, underlying it are a number of Asian-specific issues and problems which your article does not address.  For example, by government policy, students here may not fail any class.  A student who fails to meet the minimum standard of performance (a grade which is under 50% out of 100%) simply has not passed yet.  Teachers are required to keep retesting and re-educating the student until he passes- into the next school year and beyond, if necessary.  Given the choice between endless extra work and pulling numbers out of a hat, you can imagine for yourself what happens in most cases where a student is not quite bright enough to pass.  This creates an escalating performance deficit for many students:  continuing to pass and be promoted, they are less and less capable of doing any of the real work of the curriculum for their classes.

Furthermore, your article neglects to mention that entrance to the "gifted" or bilingual programmes is typically tied to much, much higher tuition fees, making them in effect a private programme within the public schools.  So, the students entering these programmes are not typically the most gifted set of students within the school, but only the most gifted of the wealthy students.  Given that Thailand already has an incredibly unfair divide between the wealthy and the poor, this further division within the auspices of supposedly publicly funded services would be a scandal in any European country.

For these and many other reasons, I sincerely hope that the British system will not adopt any of the substantive policies of the Thai educational system.  As for the polite nature of Thai students and their surface enthusiasm and respect, the article is quite accurate; however it is more the longstanding social glue of Thailand which maintains this harmony than any set of rules in the school system.  If British schools wish to be more like Thai schools in that respect, they will need to start by radically restructuring the current order of things in British society.

Sincerely yours,

Steven H.

Bangkok, Thailand

Edited January 22, 2005 by Ijustwannateach

[PeaceBlondie]

I forgot to save my response, but I emailed them a rant, also. Oppresively hot classrooms, huge class size, rote learning, crappy Q&A tests, cheating and copying are rampant, no original thought, lecture method, etc. I finally said that the uniforms were nice, though.

Hey, Brits: this is about the third really crappy BBC educatonal post we've seen in several weeks. One survey by the UK ministry of education said that class size doesn't matter. Another said Blacks get higher marks than native English. I think there was another that made no sense, either. Is it the editorial staff at BBC that's writing with both eyes closed?

[ProfessorFart]

Seems pretty typical of the <deleted> being chrned out by the BBC these days!!

[Ijustwannateach]

Has anyone been to/seen this "U.K./Thai Education Festival" that's going on? There's a photo of it in the article...

"Steven"

[mbkudu]

Seems pretty typical of the <deleted> being chrned out by the BBC these days!!

They've been taking lessons from CNN no doubt.

[paully]

It looks like an "April Fool" article, but done 2.5 months early. I'm afraid that the BBC's reputation is being steadily eroded by nonsense such as this: badly-researched, lazy journalism.

There is a delicious irony though: just as more international schools are being opened in Thailand to expensively offer the British national curriculum (at the new and exclusive Shrewsbury School, for example) to rich parents desperate to avoid the utter mediocrity of the normal Thai educational system for their charges, the British chattering class raise the possibility of, er, adopting some of the features of the Thai Educational system for Britain. You have to laugh.

[Welshman]

One of the many reasons which has decided me on packing it all in here in the UK and moving to Thailand (at my late age) is one of the utter lack of discipline, respect or consideration in British society today.

I work in a college of FE (Further Education) here and can say that, depressingly, these are an indicator of how our society has descended into the state it's in.

To many of the young (16 - 20 year olds) who come to 'study' here the idea of discipline, the meaning of the words 'you can't do that', or even the faintest traces of good manners and consideration towards others quite simply doesn't exist. I would say that, at a conservative estimate, 50 percent or more are a total waste of space and time as they either do not want to work or are so devoid of even the most basic skills in English or maths that they can barely communicate properly.

I take your point though regarding the BBC but, as most of this crap is written by the very liberal establishment which has driven us (and our education system) to this state, then it's not at all surprising that they come up with fanciful ideas to cover up the truth.

One point in particular relates to what you said about black pupils. I don't know where the author got this from as, only a few weeks ago, a government sponsored body was advocating teaching black pupils in seperate classes because of their low achievement compared with other ethnic groups. Also, report after report has pinpointed class sizes as a contributory factor to poor results.

Maybe you do have your problems in some Thai schools, but how often to you feel intimidated or actually physically threatened by feral yobs who see the staff as something to be insulted, abused and, generally, to wipe their <deleted> on.

Maybe Thai schools are not perfect but I'm looking forward to being able to, at least, walk down the corridor without fear of being ambushed by some disaffected rat-faced thug with a grudge, maybe because I just tried to get him to behave himself.

Sorry for the long gripe, but if you aint taught in Britain for a while, then you have no idea how bad it's become !

[Captain Haddock]

Yup, the Beeb, and the UK education system in general, has been following the US idea of dumbing down for quite a while now - just look at all those "news reports" that give viewers' opinions instead of real news, and the changing national curriculum which features more tests/paperwork for the teacher and student (stress anyone?) instead of that old-fashioned thing called TEACHING. (Cynical - me?)

Over the last couple of years I have been researching the possibility of returning to the UK and getting a PGCE and training as a "proper" teacher, but the feedback I have had is:

1) I need to be living in the UK for at least 3 years prior to the commencement of the PGCE before I can qualify for the UK's 6 grand grant, else I have to pay international fees and am mot eligible for any student support. Yes, that means I could even be unemployed for three years, having my rent paid and so on, as long as I am actually in the country for the required time - sheesh;

2) I have to be present for an interview at a college. The DOE does not allow anyone in otherwise. The fact that I could be training to be an ITC teacher in the 21st century, and live-via-webcam interviews have been happening for a decade (which I would be teaching my students about!), escapes them, as does pre-arranged telephone interviews, letters/emails which could cover any asked for salient point, etc;

3) Remember, the UK is virtually begging for secondary school teachers, hence their big dangly carrot worth 6k, yet even three years ago, when I was last in the UK, the govt were still spending a fortune on TV advertising but their website and advertised hot-line informed one and all that there were no vacancies in any post.

It's been said before many times, but the UK govt/BBC is an arse. If they ever got their act together, maybe we'd be living there after all...

PS If anyone knows how to get round point #1, please let me know... :-)

[Welshman]

Yup, the Beeb, and the UK education system in general, has been following the US idea of dumbing down for quite a while now - just look at all those "news reports" that give viewers' opinions instead of real news, and the changing national curriculum which features more tests/paperwork for the teacher and student (stress anyone?) instead of that old-fashioned thing called TEACHING. (Cynical - me?)

Over the last couple of years I have been researching the possibility of returning to the UK and  getting a PGCE and training as a "proper" teacher, but the feedback I have had is:

1) I need to be living in the UK for at least 3 years prior to the commencement of the PGCE before I can qualify for the UK's 6 grand grant, else I have to pay international fees and am mot eligible for any student support. Yes, that means I could even be unemployed for three years, having my rent paid and so on, as long as I am actually in the country for the required time - sheesh;

2) I have to be present for an interview at a college. The DOE does not allow anyone in otherwise. The fact that I could be training to be an ITC teacher in the 21st century, and live-via-webcam interviews have been happening for a decade (which I would be teaching my students about!), escapes them, as does pre-arranged telephone interviews, letters/emails which could cover any asked for salient point, etc;

3) Remember, the UK is virtually begging for secondary school teachers, hence their big dangly carrot worth 6k, yet even three years ago, when I was last in the UK, the govt were still spending a fortune on TV advertising but their website and advertised hot-line informed one and all that there were no vacancies in any post.

It's been said before many times, but the UK govt/BBC is an arse. If they ever got their act together, maybe we'd be living there after all...

PS If anyone knows how to get round point #1, please let me know... :-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm, you sure you want to capt'n ? Yes, schools are crying out for teachers with good reason - too many are leaving either in despair or with nervous breakdowns. There was one of those undercover programmes on TV a few weeks back called 'Classroom Chaos' where they took a camera and mike under cover with a relief teacher to various secondary schools and, believe me, it was like gazing into the jaws of hades.

Unfortunately, FE teaching has followed a similar path with the result that teachers spend around 90% of their time trying to impose some form of discipline (often in vain).

Have you thought about prison teaching ? Dead serious mate. I taught IT and Key Skills in a prison and found the 'students' attentive and keen. You also have the ultimate sanction that, if they don't pull their weight, you quite simply kick them off the register (which means they lose valuable extra payments).

FE colleges (who normally handle the prison provisions) are always looking for staff to teach in prisons (ICT and Key Skills experience is a particular plus). The pay is good, conditions excellent, no problems with discipline and you could do you C&G and PGCE 'in harness' as it were. Your employers (the college) will pay for the course under 'staff development' and you're pulling your salary at the same time. I'm currently doing the C&G 7407 (leading to PGCE) and one of the other guys on the course is teaching at a prison which the college serves.

Edited May 10, 2005 by Welshman

[Bluffer]

1) I need to be living in the UK for at least 3 years prior to the commencement of the PGCE before I can qualify for the UK's 6 grand grant, else I have to pay international fees and am mot eligible for any student support. Yes, that means I could even be unemployed for three years, having my rent paid and so on, as long as I am actually in the country for the required time - sheesh;

2) I have to be present for an interview at a college. The DOE does not allow anyone in otherwise. The fact that I could be training to be an ITC teacher in the 21st century, and live-via-webcam interviews have been happening for a decade (which I would be teaching my students about!), escapes them, as does pre-arranged telephone interviews, letters/emails which could cover any asked for salient point, etc;

3) Remember, the UK is virtually begging for secondary school teachers, hence their big dangly carrot worth 6k, yet even three years ago, when I was last in the UK, the govt were still spending a fortune on TV advertising but their website and advertised hot-line informed one and all that there were no vacancies in any post.

It's been said before many times, but the UK govt/BBC is an arse. If they ever got their act together, maybe we'd be living there after all...

PS If anyone knows how to get round point #1, please let me know... :-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do they check? Tax, NI, Council Tax....... ? Could you just brazenly lie about it? You are thinking along the same career lines as me.

[Welshman]

If it's any help....

If it's secondary schools you want, then yes, you need to qualify prior to applying. I've said what I think about secondary before, that I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

However, one way to go for your full licence is to do it through an FE college. Historically, these were formally called Technical Colleges and, as most of the lecturing staff were drawn from trades and professions, there was no need to be a trained or registered teacher.

Now that they're FE there's been a drive by the government for all FE staff to be trained and qualified. However, most FEs realise that they could never fill their positions and the staff they prefer have some kind of 'industry' experience behind them.

Most FEs, therefore, will generally advertise now for staff with a proviso in the add saying 'a teaching qualification is required or you must be willing to undertake teacher training'.

If you have a background in the areas which they teach (which is pretty wide these days) then that is one good way of getting your qualification and, more importantly, get paid at the same time !

Lecturers salaries usually start at around 21,000 these days and it should take you two years to get to the PGCE stage. This is the nationally recognised qualification and is equivalent to a university degree ( plus, you will have gained 2 years of recorded teaching experience).

It's always worth dropping in on this place (if you haven't been there already) as they update their sits vac every Monday.

It covers every sector of education and even has overseas posts.

Hope this helps

http://www.tesjobs.co.uk/rs6/homepage.asp

Edited May 12, 2005 by Welshman

[Rinrada]

Seems pretty typical of the &lt;deleted&gt; being chrned out by the BBC these days!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seems pretty typical of the S.... being churned out by some of our more "elitists"

educational establishments these days.

Maybe a word to Harrys daddy about another gap year or 3 in a Thai finishing school before sending him "orf" to sandilands to play at soldiers

[Rumpole]

To many of the young (16 - 20 year olds) who come to 'study' here the idea of discipline, the meaning of the words 'you can't do that', or even the faintest traces of good manners and consideration towards others quite simply doesn't exist. I would say that, at a conservative estimate, 50 percent or more are a total waste of space and time as they either do not want to work or are so devoid of even the most basic skills in English or maths that they can barely communicate properly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not so very different to Thailand, then.

[paully]

1) I need to be living in the UK for at least 3 years prior to the commencement of the PGCE before I can qualify for the UK's 6 grand grant, else I have to pay international fees and am mot eligible for any student support. Yes, that means I could even be unemployed for three years, having my rent paid and so on, as long as I am actually in the country for the required time - sheesh;

PS If anyone knows how to get round point #1, please let me know... :-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Captain, you're a bit late to apply for a PGCE place this September in any event, but there is provision for payment of tuition fees and the 6,000 pound bursary to applicants who are ordinarily resident in the UK but have been temporarily employed abroad. If you can show evidence that you've been working here on temporary contracts, you may still be eligible.

Another thing to bear in mind is that there has been 'talk' of getting rid of the 6,000 pound bursary for PGCE students from as early as next year as an economy measure. As far as I know, nothing has been decided, but it's as well to bear in mind that this incentive may not last forever.