Saddha In Arahants And Relics

[SeerObserver]

Arahant monks, upon death, are either preserved/mummified or cremated. I haven't heard of any to be buried, although I would like to hear about any relevant accounts of that as well if there are some to discuss.

There are bodies of monks who have passed away on display in Thailand that have not decomposed. Many are said to be miraculously not decomposing, but is that the case with all of them or are some of them are acutally processed for preservation? Is it that an arahant has transcended certain natural phenomenon?

Then there is the matter of what remains after cremation. Oftentimes there are pellets and some other solid matter left behind which are then kept as relics. What exactly are these pellets, and how is what remains after the cremation of an arahant different from anyone else? When a non-arahant is cremated, is this matter not left behind? Is it only ashes and dust that remain? It has also been said that some bodies would not burn until certain conditions were met and things of that nature.

There is also a belief and practice regarding conjuring up relics. There are accounts of people praying for and receiving relics. Are these of the Buddha, Arahants, or whom? Also, what are they, bones?

Background information would be appreciated as well. Generally, what are the beliefs and practices behind relics? Specific examples, well-known or otherwise, would also be appreciated.

[bankei]

There are some bodies of monks that are preserved in Thailand. But this are not necessarily arahats. Just popular monks whose followers had preserved their bodies. When I say preserved I mean not cremated, but it could be that followers have used some sort of preserving agent too.

Other more famous monks, whom some alleged were arahats, were cremated. Acharns Buddhadasa, Chah, Man etc.

There is nothing in the scriptures that indicated relics remain for arahats - 'saria' in Pali. In the Mahaparinibanna Sutta you will read about the Buddha's cremation, but I don't think it mentions any relics such as precious stones etc forming. I have even heard that some people have thrown things in the cremation fire so they can be found later.

So called relics are nothing special and shouldn't be worried about in my opinion. Whether they are real or appear etc won't help you in anyway so why worry about them,

[khaowong1]

There are some bodies of monks that are preserved in Thailand. But this are not necessarily arahats. Just popular monks whose followers had preserved their bodies. When I say preserved I mean not cremated, but it could be that followers have used some sort of preserving agent too.

Other more famous monks, whom some alleged were arahats, were cremated. Acharns Buddhadasa, Chah, Man etc.

There is nothing in the scriptures that indicated relics remain for arahats - 'saria' in Pali. In the Mahaparinibanna Sutta you will read about the Buddha's cremation, but I don't think it mentions any relics such as precious stones etc forming. I have even heard that some people have thrown things in the cremation fire so they can be found later.

So called relics are nothing special and shouldn't be worried about in my opinion. Whether they are real or appear etc won't help you in anyway so why worry about them,

I read somewhere that Luang por Tim, from the Rayong area, when he was meditating, relics, or small colored pebbles, would appear on the floor near him... Did you ever read that?

[SeerObserver]

I read somewhere that Luang por Tim, from the Rayong area, when he was meditating, relics, or small colored pebbles, would appear on the floor near him... Did you ever read that?

I am not familiar with this particular account, but am aware of kathas and meditation that conjure relics or pebbles as you mention.

What are these pebbles though?

[sabaijai]

Sarira

[camerata]

Last year my colleague brought some "relics" to the office in plastic bags. They looked like small pellets of granite. She had been to see a meditation monk she knew well and said the relics spontaneously materialized when he meditated. Apparently no donation was requested. I saw that one of the bags was labeled Sariputta and another Moggallana, so I asked how the monk knew whose relics they were. She said he knew from his meditation. She shared the relics among people in the office who evidently accepted them as genuine.

As for the real relics of the Buddha's chief disciples, see Nyanaponika's note.

[SeerObserver]

Sarira

That was quite helpful. The article really provides a good background for the understanding of this saddha, beliefs, and practices.

They looked like small pellets of granite.

It would be interesting to know what the pellets are actually composed of.

Edited April 6, 2009 by SeerObserver

[sabaijai]

'Rag And Bone': In Search Of The Holy Dead

From dismembered toes to leathery tongues, Peter Manseau explores the centuries-old obsession with relics, the body parts of long-dead saints and spiritual leaders.

The child of a former Roman Catholic priest and a mother who was a nun, Peter Manseau is making a career of writing about religion and spiritualism at its most unorthodox. Killing the Buddha: A Heretic's Bible, which he co-wrote with Jeff Sharlet, is a rewrite of the Bible based on stories of religious experience they collected during a yearlong road trip across the country. Manseau's memoir, Vows, is the story of his parents' decision to leave behind lives of religious celibacy to marry and have a family, and of their efforts to reform the church that refused to forgive them for breaking their vows.

In his latest book, Rag and Bone, Manseau takes on what some might think of as one of the more macabre manifestations of faith: relics. From dismembered toes to leathery tongues, Manseau explores this centuries-old obsession with the body parts of long-dead saints and spiritual leaders. In the course of his travels he has seen not one, but two purported heads of John the Baptist, one in Istanbul and one in Damascus. And he has a few stomach-turning stories of how people tried to steal these body parts and spirit them away.

But Manseau doesn't see reverence for relics as a bizarre religious practice. "These bones — fragile, mortal, beautiful — are where belief begins," he writes. They are part of the tradition of Christianity, Buddhism and Islam.

Manseau grew up as a Catholic after Vatican II when relics were deemed irrelevant. But the author was fascinated by them because he has always been "drawn to hidden histories." And he insists that Rag and Bone is not a book about death, but about life, movement and the stories that surround these objects of devotion and faith.

cont'd

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kuar/.ar....The.Holy.Dead/