Woman Mauled To Death By 3 Pit Bull Terriers, 3 Wounded

[TAWP]

And the cruicial clue here: the small dog of the family, the pet, was mauled. Most likely they attacked this one (as they are breed to do!) and the owner tried to protect her little dog and the dogs turned on her if she used violence on them.

Untrained owner, untrained dogs, a receipt for disaster.

This may be something, it's possible that one of the APBTs attacked the smaller dog and the others attacked the woman when she got involved. Other factors could have been stressed from no exercise, being locked up and possibly without water. There may also have been food involved.

And as a sidenote, Pitbulls are poor guarddogs, they just look dangerous... so the owners did everything they could wrong.

[TAWP]

Additional note: Living in a more suburb area of Bangkok with extreme close proximity to lower income housing (but not slum) as well as bought houses we have a lot of dogs around. Apart from our own 27 (one passed away 3 days ago) the streets are inhabited by many with and without clear owners. And I have yet to see any Pitbulls (or amstuffs, bullterriers or the likes) but plenty of mixed dogs of many breeds and they have been involved in drawing blood. In addition some pure breed lap-dogs owned by some old grandma type down the street bit my wife some time ago. Of course one of those times I didn't walk with her or it would have gotten the better side of my boot and the grandma a shouting to let her know what would happen if I see her dogs outside again.

So to sum up, there is problems about dogs in Thailand. 'Dangerous breeds' isn't really one of them. (In most cases, we see mixed dogs here anyway...)

[trogers]

So this is what this is going down to with the dogs here in Thailand too. can we expect less. There are no controll whatsoever

for any kind of dog here. Private ones runs loose, nobody care. Wild ones runs loose, nobody care. Of course I am surpriced, but in

some angle I am not. people just dont care.

But to be fair... from where I am coming from (Sweden), we have the same dam_n problem with this bastard-dogs and bastardowners.

Just their own fightingdog is a really nice one, and should never attack anyone...

I just say.. forbid them, heavy punishment for the owners if not obeying the law, and kill all these dogs

Glegolo

Put the dog into a cage and starve it for a week and then push the owner into the same cage. I'm sure the owner still believes his pet will not bite anyone....kisssess my darling pet, GGruph! End of issue.

[MsFigure]

Growing up i knew a lot of kids who got attacked by their family dogs, I myself was attacked by a golden retriever. Most of these bites are kept hush hush by the family so spot the family dog doesn't get put down. Where are pitbull attacks garner readership like airplane crashes.

You were attacked by a golden retriever? What did it try to do, lick you to death?

While I know never to say never, the odds are very high that you weren't bitten by a pure bred golden.

It's this attitude that some people believe some breeds don't bite that causes a lot of problems. ALL DOGS, regardless of size, breed or sex BITE... even Golden retrievers.

[Old Man River]

Growing up i knew a lot of kids who got attacked by their family dogs, I myself was attacked by a golden retriever. Most of these bites are kept hush hush by the family so spot the family dog doesn't get put down. Where are pitbull attacks garner readership like airplane crashes.

You were attacked by a golden retriever? What did it try to do, lick you to death?

While I know never to say never, the odds are very high that you weren't bitten by a pure bred golden.

It's this attitude that some people believe some breeds don't bite that causes a lot of problems. ALL DOGS, regardless of size, breed or sex BITE... even Golden retrievers.

It is this attitude where some people don't read that causes a lot of mis understandings. My comment was "while I know never to say never (this means I know never to say never), the odds are very high (this means not normally) you (previous poster) weren't bitten by a pure bred golden."

[brahmburgers]

Owners of Pit Bulls and any breed of dog bred for security work should be required to take a class on how to care for and train their dogs. I have lived with a pit bull and that dog was very sweet and nice to people it knew. But if someone it did not know tried to enter the house then it would become alert and start to get agitated, but it would quickly respond to our commands to calm down. But pit bulls which have not been trained properly are dangerous. Therefore it is the owners and not the breed which are responsible for most of the attacks. I have seen some shocking treatment of dogs in Thailand. Ranging from complete Laissez-faire approach to pet ownership to people who lock their dogs in cages for months at a time, neither is a good way to keep dogs. For me a pet should be treated like a member of the family and not like property! The disconnect between the dogs and the family might be the reason for the attack.

the post reeks of logic and common sense. For those reasons, it has no bearing on Thai way of doing things. You might as well go stand on a street corner and dictate how Thai drivers should behave while driving, but how much good effect would it have?

Fact remains, there are grossly too many dogs in Thailand, and all but a small % are dealt with responsively by their owners. No amount of decrees will change that. Pit bulls just happen to be one of the breeds most prone to vicious attacks, but any breed or mutt can readily become vicious depending on the scenario.

[Freddie_fly]

Growing up i knew a lot of kids who got attacked by their family dogs, I myself was attacked by a golden retriever. Most of these bites are kept hush hush by the family so spot the family dog doesn't get put down. Where are pitbull attacks garner readership like airplane crashes.

You were attacked by a golden retriever? What did it try to do, lick you to death?

While I know never to say never, the odds are very high that you weren't bitten by a pure bred golden.

It's this attitude that some people believe some breeds don't bite that causes a lot of problems. ALL DOGS, regardless of size, breed or sex BITE... even Golden retrievers.

I wouldnt argue that, But you are not taking it in context, the simple fact is that PitBulls are not a pet and shouldnt be treated as pets, although we have , it seems, quite a few misguided souls here wading in with the "my Pitbull is very loving and wouldnt hurt a fly" , and even worse "its the owners fault for not training them".

Look at the stats, Pitbulls are much much more likely to bite than any other breed (try google....dont worry it wont bite). Because of their physical characteristics they are much more likely to cause serious injury or death. Many dogs will bite, but its generally just a snap and release. Pitbulls have the force to crush the bones in a fully grown man's arm and they wont let go unless they are aiming for a better grip.

The problem here is there are too many people who are , it seems, willing to defend a dog that is almost constantly in the news somewhere in the world for killing or maiming people, seems to say something rather sad about the PitBulls defenders.

Freddie

[MayBeLater]

Pitbulls are legally forbidden to own or breed with in my country, the reason is clear: they are bred for aggression and not for cuddling.

This lady owned three killer dogs to protect her property. She bought them to maim and kill, she got killed by her three killer dogs. Is it justice? I think so. Same with people owning guns, dont whine when your 3 year old shoots himself or your wife. Don't own something intended to kill. But its sad this lady came to her end no matter what.

Edited April 7, 2009 by MayBeLater

[tommybkk]

I have years of experience with American Pit Bull's and Staffordshire bull terrier's.

These dog's will only attack when they know how to create anger towards humans.

It's abvious that the owner's of the dog knows more about the situation.

I trained Pit's myself, they are sweet hearted dog's, it are dog's you have to train by your voice and not by hand or foot like i see often in Thailand.

I've know alot of people in Europe who own Pit's and they care them like a family member, sleep, eat and drink inside, they are lovely dogs because they have been raised and trained by voice.

In Thailand I met several people who owned a Pit and these dog's were absouletly uncontrolable towards strangers.

The owner gave them hits by his foot and hit him on the head like it was nothing.

I tryed to explain him that if he continues doing this the dog will turn himself against someone.

He was already uncontrobable for me while playing with him, trying to bite and not letting me go ...

Pit's are so sensitive that if you raise them by hurting them they will one day turn against you, a related person or a stranger.

Thais should be aware about how to train a Pitbull and how not to train a Pitbull.

Edited April 7, 2009 by tommybkk

[tommybkk]

Pitbull's are just like others dogs , more sensitive but they are definitely not more dangerous then a Rottweiller or other related dogs.

If you only believe what you heave readen on the internet and heard on TV, then you shouldn't judge.

Please, only judge if you have experience with this breed.

Pitbull's are sofa-dogs, you can't make them sleep outside in a cage.

When a Pitbull attacks it's because the owner has a certain agression in himself too, [/b]

my Pit is calm and trustfull, because I am too.

A Pitbull that isn't trained to attack is a dog you can take by your right hand and kill it yourself with a little struggle due to his streinght.

A Pitbull that is trained to attack is a deadly weapon, that has to be killed by a human immediatly

Believe me, these thai Pit's weren't raised well at all.

I used to do competitions with my Pit, and no not any fighting or killing competitions like you people claim to believe here,

but simply agility and beauty competitions.

I have met many, and I really mean Many people who own Pit's and none of these people ever had their Pit attacking a human.

Because we all take care of them like a family member.

Pit's aren't dogs that you can put outside in a cage, they aren't even real guards unless you train them.

Regards,

Tommy

Edited April 7, 2009 by tommybkk

[brahmburgers]

I trained Pit's myself, they are sweet hearted dog's, it are dog's you have to train by your voice and not by hand or foot like i see often in Thailand.

Yet another post saying, in effect, pit bulls are lovely sweet dogs if raised correctly.

It's like the murderer's mother saying, "my son is basically a sweet and caring man. If he went beserk it must have been something/someone that set him off."

No one is saying all pit bulls are baddies. There are probably people who keep alligators as pets, who would say they're lovely and sweet. We're saying, pit bulls and most of the plethora of mistreated and abandoned dogs in Thailand are potential time bombs. I agree with the poster who says, in effect, if you keep a loaded weapon in the house, bad things can happen. For the bleeding hearts who say, "all we need is for Thais to be good and responsible dog owners, and these sorts of problems will be behind us" It won't happen in any or our lifetimes. In the meantime, people and other animals will get mauled periodically, and the hand-wringing & excuses will continue ad nauseum.

[JetsetBkk]

Owners of Pit Bulls and any breed of dog bred for security work should be required to take a class on how to care for and train their dogs....

Agreed. And then they should be forced to take a test and get a license, just like they do for driving a moto-cy or pick-up. Yeah. Good idea.

[tommybkk]

Look at the stats, Pitbulls are much much more likely to bite than any other breed (try google....dont worry it wont bite). Because of their physical characteristics they are much more likely to cause serious injury or death. Many dogs will bite, but its generally just a snap and release. Pitbulls have the force to crush the bones in a fully grown man's arm and they wont let go unless they are aiming for a better grip.

Did you even look at the stats ?

In France, the dog that bites the most (thanks to statistics) is the Golden retriever.

Ofcourse when a Pit bites is isn't always just a scratch, so it hits the newspaper everytime.

[tommybkk]

Yet another post saying, in effect, pit bulls are lovely sweet dogs if raised correctly

Yes?

I have experience with them, you abviously don't.

I don't say that an aligator is nice because I never lived with it.

This means you lived with an aligator, right?

I have experience with them and trained them myself, they are sensitive dogs, they have feelings.

It's like that case in Thailand where the monkey killed his owner because of abuse from his owner.

He turned himself against him.

Believe me, if a Pitbull doesn't have any reason to turn himself against humains, then it won't happen.

Edited April 7, 2009 by tommybkk

[keemapoot]

Time and time again, these defenders of pit bulls are pointing to all sorts of "owner delivered" training. In Thailand, this type of minutae of training just doesn't exist.

Therefore, you have ill trained owners keeping ill trained dogs. As a result, Pit Bulls should be banned in Thailand, for all of the reasons cited above.

Anyone who lives in Thailand knows that dogs run wild here. There is a fine line distinction between what is an "owned dog" and what is a stray or "soi dog."

I agree with the comments that so far, very few pit bulls are running free as strays. It will probably stay this way, but if pit bulls are let into the stray population, who knows what kind of havoc they will reek.

[brahmburgers]

Yet another post saying, in effect, pit bulls are lovely sweet dogs if raised correctly

Yes?

I have experience with them, you abviously don't.

good for you, abviously or not

I don't say that an aligator is nice because I never lived with it.

This means you lived with an aligator, right?

no, but I've had a few American wives

I have experience with them and trained them myself, they are sensitive dogs, they have feelings.

Duch in Cambodia probably had feelings too, when he'd killed dozens of prisoners each day.

It's like that case in Thailand where the monkey killed his owner because of abuse from his owner.

He turned himself against him.

Believe me, if a Pitbull doesn't have any reason to turn himself against humains, then it won't happen.

...so it's ok if the crazed dog has a reason to do so?

[DLock]

Brahm & Tommy, you both have good arguments, but it is not the same one.

I agree with Tommy, that in my experience, pitbulls that are well trained, well disciplined and cared for are well mannered dogs. That doesn't mean I would trust my pitbull and relax the safeguards I have in place. I've seen first hand what they are capable of...

And Brahm is right that in Thailand, too many Somchais think a pitbull will make them hard, or that they are good watch dogs or farm dogs. Somchai doesn't have access to good pitbull training (which is not the same as other dog training) and he wouldn't pay for it or want to do it anyway. Very few Thai houses upcountry have walled compounds and the dogs run loose, kill other animals, mate with soi dogs to expand the problem and generally run amok...to the point that people like Brahms blame the dog. That "pitbull" that killed it's owner was not a well bred pitbull and looks like a soi-cross to me.

Is the only way forward to kill the pitbulls in Thailand to stop Somchai buying one at Chatuchuk or getting one from Sombat down the road who can't get rid of his litter? Ultimately, yes, but we all know that this will never happen and in a few months from now another dog will kill another person, and this will start again. This is Thailand - resistance is futile.

Again, I reiterate a recent thread, where many of the people against pitbulls on this thread advocated guns purchased for home security. Their argument of banning pitbulls because they are killing machines should be consistent. Think maybe we should ban guns?

[Old Man River]

Look at the stats, Pitbulls are much much more likely to bite than any other breed (try google....dont worry it wont bite). Because of their physical characteristics they are much more likely to cause serious injury or death. Many dogs will bite, but its generally just a snap and release. Pitbulls have the force to crush the bones in a fully grown man's arm and they wont let go unless they are aiming for a better grip.

Did you even look at the stats ?

In France, the dog that bites the most (thanks to statistics) is the Golden retriever.

Ofcourse when a Pit bites is isn't always just a scratch, so it hits the newspaper everytime.

Save me some time. I would love to see the link to this.

[Smithson]

The misguided belief that the only factor in a dog attack is the breed is very dangerous. For example, which of the following situations would be more likely to lead to a dog attack:

A trained and socialized APBT in the same room as a young child and adult.

Two untrained Golden Retrievers, one male, one female in heat left alone to feed in the same room as a young child.

[Old Man River]

The misguided belief that the only factor in a dog attack is the breed is very dangerous. For example, which of the following situations would be more likely to lead to a dog attack:

A trained and socialized APBT in the same room as a young child and adult.

Two untrained Golden Retrievers, one male, one female in heat left alone to feed in the same room as a young child.

The key is the trained and socialized comment. The problem is that there are far, far too many untrained pit bulls. There must be as when you check the 20 year stats for dog deaths in the US (which keeps stats like this), pit bulls are far and away the leader. Goldens are not on the list and I am sure there are a lot of untrained goldens.

[orangezeke]

Here you go old man river - some facts...

The American Temperament Test Society (http://www.atts.org/index.html) provides temperament testing for dog breeds and provides a passing score for the entire breed based on the percentage of passed over failed within total number of that particular breed tested.

As of Dec 2008, the American Pit Bull Terrier has a current passing rate of 85.3%; Golden Retriver passes at 84.6%

APBT type dogs make wonderful, loving, and very loyal companions. It is important, however, to understand the breed's nature, to provide a structured environment, and to establish a positive leadership role. In order to do so, every APBT owner must understand the original purpose of the breed and respect its limit and potential. I agree with DLock that you wont soon see that in Thailand but why not start by punishing the deed rather than the breed.

[TAWP]

Peoples misconception about the race is due to it's over usage amongst bad handlers, often 'hoodlings'.

Much like the German Sheppard was involved in many events in the 80ies due to it being a fashion-item amongst drug-users of the time...which eventually passed.

[caf]

On Thai Tv this morning. a woman is in hospital with breathing problems and can not speak after being attacked by a Husky.

[Old Man River]

Here you go old man river - some facts...

The American Temperament Test Society (http://www.atts.org/index.html) provides temperament testing for dog breeds and provides a passing score for the entire breed based on the percentage of passed over failed within total number of that particular breed tested.

As of Dec 2008, the American Pit Bull Terrier has a current passing rate of 85.3%; Golden Retriver passes at 84.6%

APBT type dogs make wonderful, loving, and very loyal companions. It is important, however, to understand the breed's nature, to provide a structured environment, and to establish a positive leadership role. In order to do so, every APBT owner must understand the original purpose of the breed and respect its limit and potential. I agree with DLock that you wont soon see that in Thailand but why not start by punishing the deed rather than the breed.

I love dogs and would never hurt one regardless of the breed. However, if I am scared of pit bulls and am not overly fond of dobermans either.

The data above is interesting, but really, I don't think I understand it. I will look at the link later (short of time now).

Thanks.

[jbhh]

Here's and interesting link about dog bites listed by breed:

Dog bites by breed

It's a PDF file, so it may take a while to load.

Most breeds have 1 to 5 reported attacks. The only breed that is in the 4 digit range (1110 attacks) are the Pit Bulls. Rottweilers are in 2nd place with 406 attacks. No other dog breed has more than 100 attacks.

I would say that these numbers speak for themselves.

Great find, it supports the stats claimed by the studies I posted earlier, I just couldn't find actual numbers just percentages... 1100 of 2200 attacks!!!

[jbhh]

On Thai Tv this morning. a woman is in hospital with breathing problems and can not speak after being attacked by a Husky.

I bet she thought: hey, he doesn't bark he must be friendly... Huskies are probably the closest you can get to a wolf, they are not pets - they are an animal that requires knowledge on how to handle them as an owner or ebing someone who would like to just interact. They seem friendly, but they can get ugly.

Friend of mine has 6 Huskies and they are VERY friendly, but for some reason one of them has been singled out by the pack and has to be kept separately (it's a female) else it gets attacked by all the others. Whatever the reason, it would be stupid to assume it will never happen to a human. I don't know what the reason may be, but I guess these dogs just don't like the "smell" of some people and attack them. Also, they are extreme pack animals, so it may also just result due to pack leader rivalry.

[neverdie]

Well THANKYOU Tigs, thankyou for your kind words. Its interesting you seem to have picked my situation fairly well, whilst farangcravings is beating away at his little member with some crazed viggor!

. Its probably a good thing that old grandad has passed on, he would of gutted and made slippers out of the filthy creature & he would of done the same with farangcravings if he was man enough to back some of his comments up, but I doubt he would, we all know what the keyboard warriors are like.

I stand by my comments and it seems now your only defense is now to call me childish names which just confirms my previous posting anyway I can back up my comments and aint no keyboard warrior hiding behind a computer

Anytime you want to find me its real easy, Blue Sky Bar on the moat in Chiang Mai

Gotta side with FarangCravings on this one.

You don't "try" a pitbull. You admitted you had heard about them, yet you bought one anyway, did not train the dog and let it run with the pack. What did you think was going to happen?

It's people like you Neverdie, that should never own a pitbull. You give the dog and the breed a bad name because of your ignorance and stubbornness. In the end you lost a goat and some chickens, but you also killed a dog that didn't do anything wrong. You did by getting one and letting it loose on the farm.

On one hand people are saying its good the dog killed the Owner here in Thailand...yet they hold you up as an example of someone who should know pitbulls? You should be held up as an example of exactly what sort of person should not be allowed to own one and a prime reason for pitbull attacks.

You were very lucky. You could have been responsible for another persons death...not the dog...YOU.

DLOCK,

What planet are you from, in which part of my initial post did I mention that the dog had not been trained? In which part of it did I tell you that it had been left to roam with 'the pack'?? I didnt say any of that.

None of the dogs on the property are untrained, none of them roam the property & I can tell you that farmers all around the world are constantly on the look out for new dogs to work & with that in mind & after having sampled many breeds of dogs I would have to agree with those that posted previously that stated that the pit bulls are an extremely stupid dog & during the time that we had this dog I was not overly impressed. Many people could learn a trick or two from good farmers who probably have some of the best trained dogs, you should take some time out to go and have a look, it may stop you from making such stupid comments.

Farangcravings, I should of guessed that you were a bar stool hero, it sounds like you spend many countless hours offering advice up in CM over a few dozen beers or so....thanks for the laugh

[Smithson]

On Thai Tv this morning. a woman is in hospital with breathing problems and can not speak after being attacked by a Husky.

Did the papers have headlines saying "Husky Mauls Owner"?

[thaimiller]

On Thai Tv this morning. a woman is in hospital with breathing problems and can not speak after being attacked by a Husky.

Did the papers have headlines saying "Husky Mauls Owner"?

ofcourse not, its a loveable cute husky, thats not an headline...........

[KhunOr]

The official temperament test stats from the ATTS are certainly interesting and worth taking note of. What they give you is the typical temperament of each breed under normal conditions. 'Unfortunately' they don't also run a test with those same dogs after they have been locked up in a cage for extended periods and otherwise abused by their owners! Of course those stats would be even more pertinent to this topic.

Anyway, for the record I have listed below the TOP 5 best temperament of all breeds and the BOTTOM 5 worst temperament of all breeds. This is for every breed that they have tested over 45 dogs (because when only a few dogs were tested I believe the result is not reliable).

TOP 5

1. Labrador Retriever 92.0%

2. Schipperke 91.9%

3. Belgian Malinois 91.2%

4= English Bull Terrier 91.2%

4= Curly Coated Retriever 91.2%

BOTTOM 5

Saluki 68.9%

Shetland Sheepdog 67.4%

Basenji 67.5%

Standard Schnauzer 66.1%

Bearded Collie 53.3%

These statistics were updated 15 March 2009.

Other breeds mentioned in this thread:

APBT 85.3%

Staffy 88%

Rottweiler 83%

German Shepherd 83.7%

From the ATTS website:

"The ATTS Temperament Test provides breeders a means for evaluating temperament and gives pet owners insight into their dog's behavior. The ATTS test focuses on and measures different aspects of temperament such as stability, shyness, aggressiveness, and friendliness as well as the dog's instinct for protectiveness towards its handler and/or self-preservation in the face of a threat. The test is designed for the betterment of all breeds of dogs and takes into consideration each breed's inherent tendencies."