Thai Banks To Start Charging For Atm Withdrawals ...

[balo]

This must be the longest TV thread ever ?

[Datsun240Z]

It's just another discrimination towards " falangs ", good work Thailand, scare us all away!

[Penkoprod]

It's just another discrimination towards " falangs ", good work Thailand, scare us all away!

Try using a "foreign" card in some other places in the world and you will find that most of then have been charging a fee for a while now. How about your home country? Checked on whether a Thai ATM card incurs a charge??? I know MY home country does, and probably most of Europe/USA do too. Are you saying we (they) are all trying to "scare us all away" too?

Penkoprod

[barryofthailand]

It is not a Thai Usury Fee. It is a Visa Usury Fee. Any time you use your Visa branded card overseas, Visa charges a fee. According to this transaction, it appears to be about 1.4%. Bank of Internet refunds those fees. This is from my statement. You do the math. The amount was 10,500 baht.

"Yesterday I withdrew 10,500 baht at GSB. My account was debited $309.28. So that is an exchange rate of 33.949. On top of that, I received a reimbursement of $4.28, which I assume is the Visa transaction fee."

Not to be critical, but something doesn't sound right about the numbers you reported.

If you used your card in a GSB ATM there should not have been any Thai Usury Fee applied, since GSB is fee-free.

If they debited 309.28 and credited 4.28, the net debit was $305, which gave you an effective exchange rate of 34.43 Baht / US$

The current rate is around 34.05 to 34.14, so you either hit the jackpot or BOI credited you for a fee that they never charged.

Could you re-check the numbers and let us know if you accidentally discovered a gold mine?

.

Depending on what logo you have on your ATM card. Visa, or MasterCard, they charge a 1% conversion fee which I also get rebated. This fee is shown on a separate line, so do not include it when figuring out your rate of exchange.

Barry

[jfchandler]

I don't want to get into the farang vs Thais debate... just stick to the facts...

For all time, Thai banks never charged any fee for foreign ATM card use... And then suddenly, overnight, many of the banks went to the 150 baht, $4.40 baht amount.

Back in the U.S., the fee for foreign cards ranges by bank, usually about $2 or $3... not $4.40. That and, the U.S. banks make only one distinction -- the card belongs to their bank/network and thus you can use it free at their ATM -- or -- the card belongs to another bank/network and the bank is going to charge you a fee for using a card other than their own.

To the best of my knowledge, U.S. banks don't make a distinction between an out of country ATM card and a non-home bank domestic card (other U.S. bank than the card you're using). In either case, you're gonna pay the same fee.

The comparable situation here would be if BKK Bank charged everyone the same fee if you used their ATM with any other Thai bank's card or any out-of-country card. But, the Thai banks are not doing that, of course.

That, and, when the fee was instituted, the Thai Bankers Assn. claimed it was in response to price increases from the card networks (VISA/MC) for handling international transactions. But as the BKK Post reported at the time, the card networks said their last fee/price increase to the banks had been about two years prior.

Taken as a whole, it begins to give a reasonable person the impression, something doesn't smell good.

Try using a "foreign" card in some other places in the world and you will find that most of then have been charging a fee for a while now. How about your home country? Checked on whether a Thai ATM card incurs a charge??? I know MY home country does, and probably most of Europe/USA do too. Are you saying we (they) are all trying to "scare us all away" too?

Penkoprod

[andyc2006]

Hi ajc....I too spent a while searching for the Aeon ATM at Central Chidlom (thinking BF was Basement Floor??) and alas didnt find a thing. Where is the Aeon ATM in Paragon? Cheers

From the Fuji/McDonalds on the ground floor, go down the nearest escalator to the basement floor. It's at the bottom of that escalator, between a flower shop and information desk, near the entrance to a parking garage.

[vagabond48]

I agree with JFC. $4.40 fee seems out of line considering this is low cost of living Thailand. When I went to Cambodia and Vietnam last year. I used the ATMs of a New Zealand bank in both countries and they charged only $2, which of course, I got refunded.

This is just another variation of double pricing. One price for Thai cards, another for foreign cards.

[SurfRider]

AEON ATM - July 5 -- Pattaya Tesco South -- rate = 34.0852 /US$ -- X-Rates = 34.0902 -- No Thai ATM Usury Fee

There have been reports here that the AEON ATMs are limited to 7000 Baht per transaction -- not true of this one.

You need to drill down through a few menus -- On the screen where it offers various amounts, select "Other" - then "Checking" - ( or other option if appropriate for your account ), then enter the amount you want -- I was able to get 22,000 Baht in one transaction ( it requires that you enter the two digit decimal values - Example 20,000.00 -- which is weird, since it can't dispense coins .. TiT )

.

[sendbaht]

Now, don't get me wrong, no one likes paying ATM fees but I do not mind a business making a profit.

Now this is just me, but, paying the b150 is saving me money. I was having Charles Schwab wire

me a monthly amount at a cost of $25//B850...now I just go to the ATM with draw B25000 3 days in a row.

I save now a extra B400 a month....thanks to the bank fees... keep them coming...

A good come back is to tell me to take 6 months of living expensive out at a time....yep, it

would cost me $25 or B145 a month... but the market is so far down it is painful to take out anymore then I need for the month.

[SurfRider]

"paying the b150 is saving me money. I was having Charles Schwab wire

me a monthly amount at a cost of $25//B850...now I just go to the ATM with draw B25000 3 days in a row.

I save now a extra B400 a month....thanks to the bank fees... keep them coming"

Obviously, you haven't been following the thread or you would have known that wiring funds is the most expensive method of transferring funds and there are several other less expensive options.

If you choose to unnecessarily toss your money down a black-hole, that's your business -- but this thread has been about avoiding *ALL* fees in transferring funds into Thailand, including the new 150 Baht Thai ATM Usury fee.

.

Edited July 6, 2009 by SurfTrader

[sendbaht]

'If you choose to unnecessarily toss your money down a black-hole, that's your business -- but this thread has been about avoiding *ALL* fees in transferring funds into Thailand, including the new 150 Baht Thai ATM Usury fee."

Got it....

[JimGant]

wiring funds is the most expensive method of transferring funds

Not always. Amortizing the fixed costs of wiring money over larger amounts, results in a cost that could be less than the cost of using your foreign ATM/Debit card.

Many of us here have cards that pass on the network foreign transaction fee, reportedly, 1%. Comparing using such a card in an ATM machine, that doesn't charge the 150bt, with wiring money that costs $25 front end, 500bt back, here's what we get:

Assume: TT rate of 34bt/USD (the rate you get when you wire transfer) -- and an Interbank Exchange Rate (IER) of 34.12 (the rate you get -- before fees -- with an ATM/Debit transaction).

You wire $6500. In Thailand, that becomes, after they subtract the arrival fee of 500bt, 220,500 bt. The effective rate you received is: [220,500 divided by (6500 + 25)] = 33.793.

Use your ATM card that charges you the 1% foreign transaction fee, you get an effective rate of 33.779 (34.12 x .99). So, in this scenario, wiring money is cheaper than using your foreign ATM plastic, even in a machine that doesn't charge 150bt (the breakeven point was about $6100). And, of course, since we're dealing with fixed fees, the more you send, the less your cost rate becomes.

If you've got one of those completely fee-free cards we've discussed, like E*Trade or Schwab, you can never beat it with a wire transfer -- as long as you don't have to pay the 150bt ATM owner fee. But if the latter is not true, you can still beat it with a wire transfer, albeit in the 5-figure category.

Of course, wiring large sums brings in two risks: exchange rate and opportunity cost.

Unless you really know where the baht is headed, it's kinda hard to play the forex game. When you send money, you roll the dice -- and things probably will just end up equal over time (with apologies to those who wired money in early 1997 .

Opportunity cost. Well, unless you're keeping tons of money in a home checking account (dumb), you'll be giving up interest for a lower interest in your Thai savings account. However, last check on my money market accounts in the US, that ain't much of an opportunity cost these days.

And for those who need 800k in the bank ever year come extension renewal time, wiring money may be a necessity. So, 3 months before renewal, you send a wad that will square with Immigration 3 months later. Such a large sum will, as previously mentioned, bring the cost of obtaining spending money in Thailand way down -- trumping those 1% cards (even more so, if their effective rate turns out to be more than their reported 1%, a situation discussed back in this thread).

And, if you're a Yank, you can now go ACH and plug in $10 where I used $25 in my example, above, for a SWIFT transfer. Even mo' better.

So, wiring money (or, better yet, ACHing) is still a valid option -- and far from the most expensive option, particularly when large numbers are involved.

[Naam]

So, wiring money (or, better yet, ACHing) is still a valid option -- and far from the most expensive option, particularly when large numbers are involved.

people who bitch about ATM fees do not possess large sums to wire anywhere

[signed Naam... who's striving to be the most hated poster on ThaiVisa ]

[flying]

people who bitch about ATM fees do not possess large sums to wire anywhere

[signed Naam... who's striving to be the most hated poster on ThaiVisa ]

Ok that one got my eyes & my keyboard all wet

You hitting that port again?

[jfchandler]

Naam, you're succeeding in your quest...quite admirably....

[Naam]

people who bitch about ATM fees do not possess large sums to wire anywhere

[signed Naam... who's striving to be the most hated poster on ThaiVisa ]

Ok that one got my eyes & my keyboard all wet

You hitting that port again?

just a tiny (i swear by all what is NOT holy to me) sip (or perhaps two) of black label

[SurfRider]

"So, wiring money (or, better yet, ACHing) is still a valid option -- and far from the most expensive option, particularly when large numbers are involved"

All good points -- it also might be worth mentioning again that --based on a report here recently-- it appears that ANYONE can get an E-Trade VISA Debit Card, no matter what your citizenship or where you live in the world by opening an ET BROKERAGE account -- possibly for as little as US$1000 -- That card carries a premium exchange rate, has NO FEES ( such as the 1% that you noted ), and currently re-imburses the 150 Baht Thai ATM Fee.

The interest rate paid on an ET Brokerage account is very low, but it is possible to invest the funds in relatively safe U.S. Equities that currently pay an annual yield in the 5% to 6% range. Some research should be done to see if there is a monthly limit on the number of deposits and VISA withdrawals in an ET Brokerage account. Anyone considering this option should thoroughly research all associated aspects before making a decision.

"And for those who need 800k in the bank ever year come extension renewal time"

For some Expats, that requirement can be negated by obtaining an Income Verification Letter from your Embassy -- In the case of the U.S. Embassy, they take your word for whatever you tell them with respect to your monthly income.

.

[Naam]

The interest rate paid on an ET Brokerage account is very low, but it is possible to invest the funds in relatively safe U.S. Equities that currently pay an annual yield in the 5% to 6% range.

what consumption of cheap booze does it take for an investor to spend his hard earned dough on U.S. equities?

[SurfRider]

"what consumption of cheap booze does it take for an investor to spend his hard earned dough on U.S. equities?"

Many U.S. investors doing quite well right now, but one alternative might be for you to put a few cases of your Black Label in the cellar and hope that aging increases it's value over time . . .

.

[JimGant]

it appears that ANYONE can get an E-Trade VISA Debit Card, no matter what your citizenship or where you live in the world by opening an ET BROKERAGE account

Yeah, I've been pondering that option.

[jfchandler]

Just to be clear bout this, opening a banking account with E*Trade is not particularly different than opening any other US bank account. By opening a checking account, you gain access to their VISA debit card and its good exchange rate and, at least for now, ATM fee reimbursements that cover the Thai banks 150 baht fees.

I think the point being made here is that, for those who don't/can't meet the criteria for opening a new U.S. banking account, the E*Trade brokerage account may offer a comparable alternative with similar features.

it appears that ANYONE can get an E-Trade VISA Debit Card, no matter what your citizenship or where you live in the world by opening an ET BROKERAGE account

Yeah, I've been pondering that option.

[SurfRider]

"opening a banking account with E*Trade is not particularly different than opening any other US bank account. By opening a checking account, you gain access to their VISA debit card and its good exchange rate and, at least for now, ATM fee reimbursements that cover the Thai banks 150 baht fees."

Unless E-Trade's requirements have changed since I opened my accounts, there are two options -- A CHECKING and/or BROKERAGE Account ( They also have SAVINGS accounts with a decent interest rate, but I don't think it's possible to get the VISA Debit Card with that account )

It's also possible to link any ET accounts together, as well as link to other outside banks, so that you can transfer funds on-line anytime between any of the accounts or banks.

A Checking account was ONLY available if you have a US address, phone, and driver's license ( it might be possible to get a bit "creative" by using a relative's address, etc. -- I know someone who did it, but don't know the details )

A Brokerage account does not carry the same requirements and a foreign address in allowed. IMHO, as I've explained previously-- if you know what you're doing, you can invest whatever minimum funds are required in a variety of no-risk and/or low-risk instruments so that your funds are earning at least the same as a premium savings account, or even better-- depending on your tolerance for risk.

[ _{Buying Stock in whatever company makes "Black Label" is not necessarily recommended} . . . ]

Link to general information on E-Trade Brokerage accounts:

https://us.etrade.com/e/t/estation/contexth...1202010000#Open

.

[jfchandler]

Right on... ST.... You are correct...

The only downside with ET is they have substantial account minimum balances for their checking account that are required in order to avoid monthly fees. But people can meet those requirements in a variety of ways, including having a large enough IRA with them, or doing enough stock trades, or having a large enough balance in their brokerage account. Basically, they look at your combined total of assets with them...not just what you keep in your checking account.

As to their requirements for opening a new brokerage account...this is what it says on their web site.

ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS

You must be 18 years of age or older and a U.S. citizen or resident with a valid U.S. address. Brokerage account eligibility requirements

This seems a bit different from what another poster described above. But, as we know, it wouldn't be the first time that there was a different between what E*Trade says on their web site, and what they actually do.

[wimpy]

This seems a bit different from what another poster described above. But, as we know, it wouldn't be the first time that there was a different between what E*Trade says on their web site, and what they actually do.

Take a look here: https://us.etrade.com/e/t/estation/contexth...1202010000#Open

[jfchandler]

I believe that's the same link, and info, I posted in my post one above...

[wimpy]

I believe that's the same link, and info, I posted in my post one above...

That part that I linked to explains how to open a brokerage account if you are not a US citizen or resident. As I wrote before, it is no problem at all. It just has to be done through the mail.

[jfchandler]

The quoted material I posted above contained a link to the same information. The link is the underlined part -- with text reading "Brokerage account Eligibility Requirements"!!!

I believe that's the same link, and info, I posted in my post one above...

That part that I linked to explains how to open a brokerage account if you are not a US citizen or resident. As I wrote before, it is no problem at all. It just has to be done through the mail.

[wimpy]

The quoted material I posted above contained a link to the same information. The link is the underlined part -- with text reading "Brokerage account Eligibility Requirements"!!!

I believe that's the same link, and info, I posted in my post one above...

That part that I linked to explains how to open a brokerage account if you are not a US citizen or resident. As I wrote before, it is no problem at all. It just has to be done through the mail.

I assumed you missed the part explaining that non-US persons could open an account because you wrote...

"This seems a bit different from what another poster described above. But, as we know, it wouldn't be the first time that there was a different between what E*Trade says on their web site, and what they actually do."

Sheesh, I was just trying to be helpful.

[SurfRider]

JFC, maybe I'm missing your point, but you seem to be indicating that "You must be 18 years of age or older and a U.S. citizen or resident with a valid U.S. address" to open a ET Brokerage Account.

This is clearly NOT the case, as my two brokerage accounts registered to my Thai address, as well as Wimpy's example of helping a Thai friend open an ET Brokerage account verify.

The line at the top of the Link I posted clearly states:

"Open an E*TRADE Securities account if I'm neither a legal resident of the U.S. nor a U.S. citizen"

Your criteria appears to be referring to a CHECKING or SAVINGS account, not a BROKERAGE account.

https://us.etrade.com/e/t/estation/contexth...1202010000#Open

"The only downside with ET is they have substantial account minimum balances for their checking account that are required in order to avoid monthly fees."

This is true for a CHECKING account, but NOT for a BROKERAGE account.

.

[jfchandler]

I don't want to go crazy here, but here is the exact info from the E*Trade web site relating to opening their BROKERAGE account for people who are NOT U.S. citizens or legal residents. It doesn't say they can't open a brokerage account, but it does say such people cannot do the process ONLINE....

Open an E*TRADE Securities account if I'm neither a legal resident of the U.S. nor a U.S. citizen You won't be able to open a brokerage account online if you are not a legal resident or citizen of the United States because we will need some additional documentation from you. If you're not sure if you're a legal resident, see the Help topic Determine my residency status.

1. Request a brokerage account application by mail, or download it from our Forms & Applications page.

2. Download a Form W-8BEN.

3. Complete sections 1 through 6 of the application (the section on options trading isn't required).

4. Send your completed application and Form W-8BEN, along with your initial deposit and any supporting documentation, to us at:

By regular U.S. mail

E*TRADE Securities LLC

P.O. Box 1542

Merrifield, VA 22116-1542

By overnight mail

E*TRADE Securities LLC

671 Glebe Road N., 11th Floor

Arlington, VA 22203

1-800-ETRADE-1

Note:

If you're a non-U.S. resident alien (your legal residence is outside the U.S.) and your mailing address is inside the U.S., we also need the following items.

* A letter describing the purpose of your stay in the U.S.

* A copy of a photo ID confirming your residence in the treaty country. This can be a driver's license, a passport indicating your permanent address, or a government identification card.

If you're not a U.S. citizen, you may be able to claim an exemption from withholding, or a reduced tax withholding rate, on earnings from your investments. To claim this exemption or reduction, send us a copy of IRS Form 1001 (Ownership, Exemption, or Reduced Rate Certificate) with your account application.

If any of the information you provide to us should change, please send us a revised W-8BEN Form within 30 days.

For more information about Forms W-8BEN and 1001, go to the IRS Web site to search for the following publications: IRS publications 'Withholding on Specific Income' and 'Withholding Exemptions and Reductions.'