State Of Emergency Declared For Bangkok

[ALFREDO]

-Levelhead-

Talking about the "fine" manners of Police in England.

There was just 2 or 3 days ago a Video footage to be seen on BBC, where some officers,

during the G20 summit walk a pedestrian walkway and a man stralls with his hands in his pockets in the same direction.

One of the officers pushes him strong from behind, maybe also slep him with his baton at the knee,

the man goes down wildly with stomach and head hitting the ground.

He could not see the attack coming and having his hands in his pockets no chance to help himself when falling.

People help him and he can walk away.

The story would not have made public, but just around the corner the man died of a sudden heart attack.

Emergency personal arrived quickly, but could not help.

So, maybe the blunt force of the attack-for no reason shocked and killed him.

He was a middle aged guy with wife and children, a newspaper deliverer on his way home.

Collateral damage everywhere!

Edited April 13, 2009 by ALFREDO

[ohdearohdearohdear]

From BBC

At the flashpoint, with their numbers swelled by the arrival of more demonstrators, the confrontation began again - but this time, the rules suddenly changed.

A bus blocking the road was set on fire and a water-cannon was used by soldiers to put out the blaze.

As the troops swarmed forward, another bus was reversed towards them and this was the final provocation - the soldiers opened fire.

Automatic gunfire was aimed at the crowd as they fled - tourists from a nearby hotel watched as bullets were sprayed down the road.

One soldier, apparently a senior officer, stood upright and fired his pistol, as another crouched and aimed at waist level and used an entire magazine of live ammunition - and he was clearly not firing above their heads.

As the troops went in pursuit, another bus was driven at army lines behind their position on another front - it smashed into the barrier on a flyover, almost careering on to the carriageway below.

The military again pushed forward, again firing live rounds, but this time into the air.

An overhead power cable split by a bullet fizzed and sparked to the ground as petrol bombs and bottles rained down on the troops. Aggressively they chased the red-shirts down the road, firing as they went, to Victory Monument - a main roundabout in the city.

Tempers then calmed as both sides stopped to re-group and drink the supplies of water scattered about for the demonstrations.

Gradually they began to taunt each other across the square before the confrontation petered out.

An elderly man was treated for a nasty head injury - a number of people are believed to have been hurt, some seriously.

Go and see for yourself the BBC video on Youtube. It clearly shows the senior officer firing his handgun directly at the protesters. So I guess the handgun is also filled with blanks is it?

If I had a handgun full of blanks I would fire it at them and you can assume nothing unless you are the policeman in question or a person shot by that policeman. Assumptions mean nothing maybe had bullets ,maybe had blanks u dont know so stop guessing.

Where in the article which I highlighted in BOLD for your benefit did you not see the following words printed by BBC : as another crouched and aimed at waist level and used an entire magazine of live ammunition.

So now its either the BBC reporter is lying or the wonderful, human rights obeying and non-corrupt army of Thailand that is lying. Take your pick. It is not a matter of whether I or you are the ones lying, since we all still depends on news to get information.

It would seem that Thailand is the only country to issue blank ammo to their troops to gain control of a cituation where the thugs have live ammo.(how cool is that )

If it was live ammo that was being fired the oficers and enlisted men need to go back to the ranges because with the amount of times they have fired their wepons there would be for shaw a very large number of dead and injured in and around the area.

[eldar1]

Honestly, do you have any idea the logistical nightmare it is the change a venue for a high level summit with 12 hours notice? It just can't be done, these things take months to plan and prepare.

just on this point... he did have months to prepare.

any body who knows anything would have known the reds would emulate the yellows tactics.

ASEAN summit was the perfect time and place, reds thought so, why didnt Abhisit anticipate it ?

good leaders are not reactionary, they anticipate and have plan B

this could and should have been anticipated, and prevented. Abhisit didnt have plan B, he had nothing, except his.... 'assurances'

Ok so we can agree that abhisit was foolish to not double the amount of security and order the police to use force to disperse the red mob at the earliest hint of aggression.

If thaksin comes back like the UDD wants isn't it shameful as well that the person behind the attack on the ASEAN is now in power? The next time thaksin sees wen jibao (sp?) does he go like: "hi, i'm the guy that ordered the attack on you while you were in pattaya, how ya doing?" ? i mean how does that look for thailand? Pretty shameful in my eyes

[nitecm]

Here's the Thaksin BBC Interview. Wish it was a bit more on a Hardtalk level, but entirely unconvincing all the same.

Wow, amazing video.

He's finished. Strangely enough, I feel urges of sympathy for the man, more like he's lost his mind, and completely lost his game. Like it's dementia or some state of mental dementia.

He tells the reds he was only offering moral support..... I can see many unhappy reds in the future when they see this. He can't even fess up to his true intentions.

If I were him, I'd buy a nice house with a balcony, a rocking chair, subscribe to the daily paper and a big bag of green. He's way out of the game. Looks like he knows it, too.

Lots of passionate people, including reds postimg on this forum; posting cause they care.

I see many posters here care a great deal for Thailand, in may different ways. Gnight

You may be right

But also wrong

You never think why the red can move by his group .His loyal supporters or pay by them ?

[humfurry]

The buck stops with the boss.

Abhisit guarenteed that the ASEAN summit could go ahead fine with no trouble and it was a test of his control.

He was PM, he takes the fall for the failure.

Simple as that in the high flying world of politicians.

I think he should stop making "guarantees" for something he can't guarantee. Simple as that. He should have left the summit where it was initially planned, in Phuket. Some (pro-Abhisit people, of course) suggested he moved it to Pattaya to lay a trap for the red shirts. Well, what an amazing plan, endangering dozens of heads of state and foreign government officials on purpose?

In whatever way you look at it, he is a failure of a PM. He has done nothing in his months in office except talk on CNN about how handsome he is, pick up a Newcastle shirt with his name on it and appoint several PAD leaders to government positions.

And now he's wondering why people want him out of office? This guy is a joke!

What a few months in office...after a few years of political chaos...and the worst downturn in the economy since the Great Depression... Dealing with a developing economy in a region where China is master....What do you expect?

[Plus]

From BBC interview;

Would you like to.. return to the country, would you like to lead the country again? Is that what's behind this?

No.. no.. noo. it's not really behind it

I shit you not!

[goldenscreen]

The buck stops with the boss.

Abhisit guarenteed that the ASEAN summit could go ahead fine with no trouble and it was a test of his control.

He was PM, he takes the fall for the failure.

Simple as that in the high flying world of politicians.

I think he should stop making "guarantees" for something he can't guarantee. Simple as that. He should have left the summit where it was initially planned, in Phuket. Some (pro-Abhisit people, of course) suggested he moved it to Pattaya to lay a trap for the red shirts. Well, what an amazing plan, endangering dozens of heads of state and foreign government officials on purpose?

In whatever way you look at it, he is a failure of a PM. He has done nothing in his months in office except talk on CNN about how handsome he is, pick up a Newcastle shirt with his name on it and appoint several PAD leaders to government positions.

And now he's wondering why people want him out of office? This guy is a joke!

I think there are now two theories on the ASEAN fiasco. The first was that the army/police were internally divided and hence didn't put up much of a fight when the REDS invaded the summit meeting hall.

The second theory which I am more inclined to believe is true is that the military/police guarding the summit deliberately allowed the REDS to wreck the summit as a pretext for a harsh crackdown. But either way, both theories do not paint a good picture of Thailand because the security forces were playing politics in both cases and were more than willing to put the ASEAN leaders security in jeopardy just to play their little Siamese game. And the PM of Thailand should not have gone ahead with the summit when he couldn;t be 100% sure that security would not be compromised due to security forces involvenment in politics.

What a great shame and dishonor. Which country would trust Thailand's security forces to protect visting dignitaries from now on?

[rainman]

It would seem that Thailand is the only country to issue blank ammo to their troops to gain control of a cituation where the thugs have live ammo.(how cool is that )

I wonder if the troops knew they were shooting blanks? Didn't that leave them with no real way of defending themselves?

And now ...what happens tonight? Will they use live ammunition? Or keep shooting blanks with the red shirts knowing they shoot blanks? Now it will turn much uglier. Either the army gets killed or the red shirts get killed. Whoever draws first wins (or whoever doesn't shoot blanks).

[Meridian007]

See my earlier post, I think there will be bodies by tommorow, but caused by the army? Unlikely as their scare tactics have been slowly working. This is either a case of locals being pissed (I would be too if someone threatened to blow up my neighbourhood) or its an internal ploy to back up Thaksin's lies.

In the chaos, who knows? If there are any casualties, they are still much lower than they could rightfully be in a situation like this.

[coconutmonkey]

The buck stops with the boss.

Abhisit guarenteed that the ASEAN summit could go ahead fine with no trouble and it was a test of his control.

He was PM, he takes the fall for the failure.

Simple as that in the high flying world of politicians.

LH, I've been reading ALL your posts..... you're running out of ammo, or maybe you're just firing blanks now

Of the buck stops with the boss, then next time I'm an ass at work, I'll have to take my boss with me when I get the boot, and his boss, and his, and..... where does it stop??

I'm sure you even agreed when this blew up yesterday that Abhisit had no control over the military..... everyone was writing it! So why should he be responsible then?

Honestly, do you have any idea the logistical nightmare it is the change a venue for a high level summit with 12 hours notice? It just can't be done, these things take months to plan and prepare.

just on this point... he did have months to prepare.

any body who knows anything would have known the reds would emulate the yellows tactics.

ASEAN summit was the perfect time and place, reds thought so, why didnt Abhisit anticipate it ?

good leaders are not reactionary, they anticipate and have plan B

this could and should have been anticipated, and prevented. Abhisit didnt have plan B, he had nothing, except his.... 'assurances'

Hmmm... don't you think that may have been part of the plan?? Even Taksin tried to be 'underestimated', stating he was running out of money and having difficulties living a travelling life overseas....

As the PM of Thailand, that went suprisingly well, so far.

Watch that video of Taksin again.... it does hurt, doesn't it.... but it's not all in vain. It was so peaceful and lovely in other parts of BKK.

[rainman]

What a few months in office...after a few years of political chaos...and the worst downturn in the economy since the Great Depression... Dealing with a developing economy in a region where China is master....What do you expect?

Maybe not borrow again from the IMF? Thailand has billions of their own reserves, PLUS they have Thaksin's billions. Why not use those to jump-start the economy? Or perhaps that money was already gone.

[Old Man River]

This is not any end game, and now the politicians start to work again, after the demonstrators finish.

The hope is that the politicians are given the time to work again. The longer this goes, the less chance it becomes.

[nitecm]

The buck stops with the boss.

Abhisit guarenteed that the ASEAN summit could go ahead fine with no trouble and it was a test of his control.

He was PM, he takes the fall for the failure.

Simple as that in the high flying world of politicians.

I think he should stop making "guarantees" for something he can't guarantee. Simple as that. He should have left the summit where it was initially planned, in Phuket. Some (pro-Abhisit people, of course) suggested he moved it to Pattaya to lay a trap for the red shirts. Well, what an amazing plan, endangering dozens of heads of state and foreign government officials on purpose?

In whatever way you look at it, he is a failure of a PM. He has done nothing in his months in office except talk on CNN about how handsome he is, pick up a Newcastle shirt with his name on it and appoint several PAD leaders to government positions.

And now he's wondering why people want him out of office? This guy is a joke!

What a few months in office...after a few years of political chaos...and the worst downturn in the economy since the Great Depression... Dealing with a developing economy in a region where China is master....What do you expect?

This situation is good for third party to come in

[blackman]

It would seem that Thailand is the only country to issue blank ammo to their troops to gain control of a cituation where the thugs have live ammo.(how cool is that )

I wonder if the troops knew they were shooting blanks? Didn't that leave them with no real way of defending themselves?

And now ...what happens tonight? Will they use live ammunition? Or keep shooting blanks with the red shirts knowing they shoot blanks? Now it will turn much uglier. Either the army gets killed or the red shirts get killed. Whoever draws first wins (or whoever doesn't shoot blanks).

its clear you have never been near a gun

please bear in mind its more interesting to read when you talk about things that you think you know something about than when you talk about things that you clearly know nothing about but think you do.....

[coconutmonkey]

It would seem that Thailand is the only country to issue blank ammo to their troops to gain control of a cituation where the thugs have live ammo.(how cool is that )

I wonder if the troops knew they were shooting blanks? Didn't that leave them with no real way of defending themselves?

And now ...what happens tonight? Will they use live ammunition? Or keep shooting blanks with the red shirts knowing they shoot blanks? Now it will turn much uglier. Either the army gets killed or the red shirts get killed. Whoever draws first wins (or whoever doesn't shoot blanks).

What a few months in office...after a few years of political chaos...and the worst downturn in the economy since the Great Depression... Dealing with a developing economy in a region where China is master....What do you expect?

Maybe not borrow again from the IMF? Thailand has billions of their own reserves, PLUS they have Thaksin's billions. Why not use those to jump-start the economy? Or perhaps that money was already gone.

Thoughtful, interesting posts..... they're good questions!

Any takers?

[WAERTH]

I tried to work my way down towards the protests. But the area around victory monument and Ratchaprarob is a virtual no go zone. On lastnamed road I encountered over a 1000 soldiers, ambulances police arrest wagons and other military vehicles.

This kinda convinced me that it was better to go home.

Waerth

[humfurry]

What a few months in office...after a few years of political chaos...and the worst downturn in the economy since the Great Depression... Dealing with a developing economy in a region where China is master....What do you expect?

Maybe not borrow again from the IMF? Thailand has billions of their own reserves, PLUS they have Thaksin's billions. Why not use those to jump-start the economy? Or perhaps that money was already gone.

I believe your comment referred to the current PM...why not just give him a chance? I doubt they are are at liberty to spend Toxins billions...correct me if I'm wrong.

[mc2]

From BBC interview;

Would you like to.. return to the country, would you like to lead the country again? Is that what's behind this?

No.. no.. noo. it's not really behind it

I shit you not!

the first no was the best

[xminator]

-Levelhead-

Talking about the "fine" manners of Police in England.

There was just 2 or 3 days ago a Video footage to be seen on BBC, where some officers,

during the G20 summit walk a pedestrian walkway and a man stralls with his hands in his pockets in the same direction.

One of the officers pushes him strong from behind, maybe also slep him with his baton at the knee,

the man goes down wildly with stomach and head hitting the ground.

He could not see the attack coming and having his hands in his pockets no chance to help himself when falling.

People help him and he can walk away.

The story would not have made public, but just around the corner the man died of a sudden heart attack.

Emergency personal arrived quickly, but could not help.

So, maybe the blunt force of the attack-for no reason shocked and killed him.

He was a middle aged guy with wife and children, a newspaper deliverer on his way home.

Collateral damage everywhere!

You happen to forget that the policeman is suspended and under investigation and it put more then a little political pressure on the british government.

[blackman]

What a few months in office...after a few years of political chaos...and the worst downturn in the economy since the Great Depression... Dealing with a developing economy in a region where China is master....What do you expect?

Maybe not borrow again from the IMF? Thailand has billions of their own reserves, PLUS they have Thaksin's billions. Why not use those to jump-start the economy? Or perhaps that money was already gone.

thaksins billlions will be gone in a few weeks when the court declares

thats why this red revolution was rushed through now

to try to get control before they decide to keep his money

its written all over his square head that he is defeated

[ohdearohdearohdear]

It would seem that Thailand is the only country to issue blank ammo to their troops to gain control of a cituation where the thugs have live ammo.(how cool is that )

I wonder if the troops knew they were shooting blanks? Didn't that leave them with no real way of defending themselves?

And now ...what happens tonight? Will they use live ammunition? Or keep shooting blanks with the red shirts knowing they shoot blanks? Now it will turn much uglier. Either the army gets killed or the red shirts get killed. Whoever draws first wins (or whoever doesn't shoot blanks).

The Cartrige for a blank is very diferent to that of a live round (the live one has a Lump of lead at one end that does the damage)

[goldenscreen]

It would seem that Thailand is the only country to issue blank ammo to their troops to gain control of a cituation where the thugs have live ammo.(how cool is that )

I wonder if the troops knew they were shooting blanks? Didn't that leave them with no real way of defending themselves?

And now ...what happens tonight? Will they use live ammunition? Or keep shooting blanks with the red shirts knowing they shoot blanks? Now it will turn much uglier. Either the army gets killed or the red shirts get killed. Whoever draws first wins (or whoever doesn't shoot blanks).

Interesting line of thinking..never thought of it before.

Thailand is the only country which practices a semblance of democracy that sends troops armed with M16s (some blanks, some live ammo) to contain a riot/protesters. Other countries would pump the air full of tear gas and spray the protesters with chemically laced water cannons to break up a big mob into smaller mobs and then isolate them and zoom in and arrest them. Other countries would also have infiltrated the mobs with dozens of plain clothes policeman to identify and arrest troublemakers.

Isn't that the way the government of Thailand - Privy Council - should have gone about breaking up the protests instead of sending armed troops onto the streets of a major metropolitan city? Imagine what the foreigners here would be in an uproar if Bush or Blair had sent armed troops, Blackwater mercenaries to quell anti-war demonstrations?

[mc2]

Hmmm... don't you think that may have been part of the plan?? Even Taksin tried to be 'underestimated', stating he was running out of money and having difficulties living a travelling life overseas....

As the PM of Thailand, that went suprisingly well, so far.

Watch that video of Taksin again.... it does hurt, doesn't it.... but it's not all in vain. It was so peaceful and lovely in other parts of BKK.

part of the plan ? you got to be joking.

about thaksin having no money ? nonsense. he has billions stashed away and plenty of family and friends with millions that owe him big, big favours.

[ohdearohdearohdear]

-Levelhead-

Talking about the "fine" manners of Police in England.

There was just 2 or 3 days ago a Video footage to be seen on BBC, where some officers,

during the G20 summit walk a pedestrian walkway and a man stralls with his hands in his pockets in the same direction.

One of the officers pushes him strong from behind, maybe also slep him with his baton at the knee,

the man goes down wildly with stomach and head hitting the ground.

He could not see the attack coming and having his hands in his pockets no chance to help himself when falling.

People help him and he can walk away.

The story would not have made public, but just around the corner the man died of a sudden heart attack.

Emergency personal arrived quickly, but could not help.

So, maybe the blunt force of the attack-for no reason shocked and killed him.

He was a middle aged guy with wife and children, a newspaper deliverer on his way home.

Collateral damage everywhere!

You happen to forget that the policeman is suspended and under investigation and it put more then a little political pressure on the british government.

Yes on full pay! and what pressure?

[coconutmonkey]

It would seem that Thailand is the only country to issue blank ammo to their troops to gain control of a cituation where the thugs have live ammo.(how cool is that )

I wonder if the troops knew they were shooting blanks? Didn't that leave them with no real way of defending themselves?

And now ...what happens tonight? Will they use live ammunition? Or keep shooting blanks with the red shirts knowing they shoot blanks? Now it will turn much uglier. Either the army gets killed or the red shirts get killed. Whoever draws first wins (or whoever doesn't shoot blanks).

its clear you have never been near a gun

please bear in mind its more interesting to read when you talk about things that you think you know something about than when you talk about things that you clearly know nothing about but think you do.....

Whoah! Slow down, boy!

Well, yes, they must have known they were shooting blanks, but I don't think Rainman was asking a literal question, he was expressing his disbelief.

Moreover, I think it's important to note that with blanks, those wads of densely packed paper in place of the projectile can blow out the barrel end, causing some damage over a very short range...

When I was about 14, I blew a hole in the ceiling of our home in Australia, with a blank. The wads flew out and put a 2 cm diameter hole, in a soft pine roof board.... just missing a freind's head actually.... (don't like to admit that!). That was only about 1-2 metres range though.....

[yabaaaa]

From BBC

At the flashpoint, with their numbers swelled by the arrival of more demonstrators, the confrontation began again - but this time, the rules suddenly changed.

A bus blocking the road was set on fire and a water-cannon was used by soldiers to put out the blaze.

As the troops swarmed forward, another bus was reversed towards them and this was the final provocation - the soldiers opened fire.

Automatic gunfire was aimed at the crowd as they fled - tourists from a nearby hotel watched as bullets were sprayed down the road.

One soldier, apparently a senior officer, stood upright and fired his pistol, as another crouched and aimed at waist level and used an entire magazine of live ammunition - and he was clearly not firing above their heads.

As the troops went in pursuit, another bus was driven at army lines behind their position on another front - it smashed into the barrier on a flyover, almost careering on to the carriageway below.

The military again pushed forward, again firing live rounds, but this time into the air.

An overhead power cable split by a bullet fizzed and sparked to the ground as petrol bombs and bottles rained down on the troops. Aggressively they chased the red-shirts down the road, firing as they went, to Victory Monument - a main roundabout in the city.

Tempers then calmed as both sides stopped to re-group and drink the supplies of water scattered about for the demonstrations.

Gradually they began to taunt each other across the square before the confrontation petered out.

An elderly man was treated for a nasty head injury - a number of people are believed to have been hurt, some seriously.

Go and see for yourself the BBC video on Youtube. It clearly shows the senior officer firing his handgun directly at the protesters. So I guess the handgun is also filled with blanks is it?

If I had a handgun full of blanks I would fire it at them and you can assume nothing unless you are the policeman in question or a person shot by that policeman. Assumptions mean nothing maybe had bullets ,maybe had blanks u dont know so stop guessing.

Where in the article which I highlighted in BOLD for your benefit did you not see the following words printed by BBC : as another crouched and aimed at waist level and used an entire magazine of live ammunition.

So now its either the BBC reporter is lying or the wonderful, human rights obeying and non-corrupt army of Thailand that is lying. Take your pick. It is not a matter of whether I or you are the ones lying, since we all still depends on news to get information.

Do you really think the BBC are 100% accurate in their reporting. I have seen many reports where I have been places when something happened and know the people involved and the report has been totally wrong. Did the BBC reporter check the gun? find some bullet holes or just "assume" it was live rounds?

[Chaimai]

The buck stops with the boss.

Abhisit guarenteed that the ASEAN summit could go ahead fine with no trouble and it was a test of his control.

He was PM, he takes the fall for the failure.

Simple as that in the high flying world of politicians.

I think he should stop making "guarantees" for something he can't guarantee. Simple as that. He should have left the summit where it was initially planned, in Phuket. Some (pro-Abhisit people, of course) suggested he moved it to Pattaya to lay a trap for the red shirts. Well, what an amazing plan, endangering dozens of heads of state and foreign government officials on purpose?

In whatever way you look at it, he is a failure of a PM. He has done nothing in his months in office except talk on CNN about how handsome he is, pick up a Newcastle shirt with his name on it and appoint several PAD leaders to government positions.

And now he's wondering why people want him out of office? This guy is a joke!

rainman/Levelhead I don't know why I find you both detestable. ... Oh yes, I do. Neither of you can submit a balanced view of anything and your perception of things suggests we are watching totally different events. This is not because we have opposing views, it is because of your myopic ramblings.

Let me state that I agree Abhisit failed by not securing the Asean conference and this resulted in severe egg on face for him and Thailand. However, since then he appears to have grown in stature and handled the situation with dignity, skill and professionalism - balancing compassion and the need to exert some pressure to get the job sorted.

Fascinating that whilst Abhisit has been in the ascendancy, Taksin's ar5e, and credibility, is on the floor.

Abhisit could come out of this as quelling the 'people's revolution' AND putting the ghost of Taksin to rest at last. The people's revolution is looking more and more the play of a desperate man who was never going to be let back in Thailand, let alone .

The reds failed in their objective of getting Abhisit's resignation and only won a small opportunistic victory in the cancellation of the Asean summit.

[Meridian007]

Interesting line of thinking..never thought of it before.

Thailand is the only country which practices a semblance of democracy that sends troops armed with M16s (some blanks, some live ammo) to contain a riot/protesters. Other countries would pump the air full of tear gas and spray the protesters with chemically laced water cannons to break up a big mob into smaller mobs and then isolate them and zoom in and arrest them. Other countries would also have infiltrated the mobs with dozens of plain clothes policeman to identify and arrest troublemakers.

Isn't that the way the government of Thailand - Privy Council - should have gone about breaking up the protests instead of sending armed troops onto the streets of a major metropolitan city? Imagine what the foreigners here would be in an uproar if Bush or Blair had sent armed troops, Blackwater mercenaries to quell anti-war demonstrations?

Actually I agree. When things were heating up I was thinking that it will be interesting to see the water cannons used on Songkran...

[h90]

It would seem that Thailand is the only country to issue blank ammo to their troops to gain control of a cituation where the thugs have live ammo.(how cool is that )

I wonder if the troops knew they were shooting blanks? Didn't that leave them with no real way of defending themselves?

And now ...what happens tonight? Will they use live ammunition? Or keep shooting blanks with the red shirts knowing they shoot blanks? Now it will turn much uglier. Either the army gets killed or the red shirts get killed. Whoever draws first wins (or whoever doesn't shoot blanks).

The Cartrige for a blank is very diferent to that of a live round (the live one has a Lump of lead at one end that does the damage)

I don't know the M16 I know only the STG-77

Cartrige is the same, you can put in the Cartrige different bullets and all are steel not lead. Would surprise me if they shoot lead bullets.

[goldenscreen]

And I must also note the alarming level of blood thirst coming from some members in this forum who have been openly calling since yesterday for the military to mow down the RED protesters with machine guns is disgusting. You know who you are.

I have never been to other ASEAN countries where people who hate the other sides demonstrations wished for them to be gunned down. But hey maybe this is the Thai way and the foreigners also support the Thai way of dealing with dissent. So let's get the Thai way under way then!