Arrest Warrants Issued For 14 Red Shirt Leaders And Thaksin

[Plus]

He is the Prime Minister and can do whatever he wants within the boundaries of the law. If the general populace feels he has amended and/or enacted laws to benefit himself or has acted unfairly, we (the people) have a choice: Don't vote for him or his party come election time.

During four years in power the PM enacts hundreds of laws and executive degrees.

We, "the people", do not pass judgement on each and every one of them during three seconds it takes to cast a vote and we do not exonerate the PM from each and every wrongdoing commited during four years in power simply because he's got 51% of the vote, especially with the kind of machinations Thai politicians use during the campaign.

[animatic]

Well...

I am indeed serious with that last paragraph. What would you think if, say, a murderer was to decide the punishment for murder? Understand? The government is responsible for the law, the government MAKES the law which then has to be followed by everyone.

Now if the government itself broke pretty much every exiting law to come to power and, once in power, uses said power to CHANGE the law so that their wrongdoings become right, would that be "right" then..? Technically maybe "yes", but ethically..??

Yes, Thaksin did change the taxation laws for his own benefit. I don't deny that. I certainly didn't agree with it either, and I can't think of a single person who does. But then again, the changes were made legally since it passed through legislation and was approved by both houses of parliament. You might feel that it's wrong or immoral, but what we think does not matter. He is the Prime Minister and can do whatever he wants within the boundaries of the law. If the general populace feels he has amended and/or enacted laws to benefit himself or has acted unfairly, we (the people) have a choice: Don't vote for him or his party come election time. Other than this, there is nothing you or I can do. I can think of many leaders besides Thaksin who have changed the law for their own benefit. This type of thing is commonplace and is practiced not only in Thailand but all over the world.

I hate to break it to you, but staging a coup to restore order IS WRONG, plain and simple. A coup is an act of treason and it undermines the very nature of a democracy. No true democratic nation in the world uses a coup to solve problems. Absolutely none. All political struggles are handled by parliament or congress within the boundaries of the law. 'Impeachment' and/or 'vote of no confidence' laws exist for a reason -- to remove abusive leaders from power.

To say and/or think that staging a coup d'etat is an 'OK' thing to do is very "undemocratic".

Came elections, Thaksin came right back - through the back door, using the billions he stole from the people before (or at least, in the Shincorp case, forgot to pay taxes on... pardon, that was legal because someone changed the law accordingly, oops, wasn't that Thaksin himself?) to rig the "democratic" election which was witnessed by my very own eyes (and the Dems did NOT come round to offer cash-for-votes, only PPP did, and the announcements over the village PA system every evening also "strongly" suggested to "vote for PPP or else..."

Your accusation of election fraud by the PPP is far-fetched, IMO. With all the election laws in place, watchdog groups both local and foreign, no one can rig an election, not even Thaksin. Like I said in my previous post, vote buying is rampant in Thailand. When there's an election (no matter how small), there will be vote buying.

We know the results, PPP had a large percentage, and the smaller parties which many, fed up with Thaksin, had voted for because they vowed "we will NOT cooperate with PPP" were put under pressure from the much larger PP in a sense "you are going to work with us or you will cease to exist", so they did and voila, there was Thaksin back in power through his puppets Samak and later Somchai. At first, by the way, i even supported Somchai - he had my Sympathy but only until it became clear that he, too, didn't give a sh!t about his actual duty as a PM but only served Thaksin in order for him to get back behind the wheel!

Strategy and power play is very commonplace in the political arena. As for Samak openly admitting to being a proxy to Thaksin, there's nothing wrong or illegal about that either.

A case in point, if you don't like the Government, the ruling party, or disapprove of the way they do things then DON'T VOTE FOR THEM. Other than to excercise your right to vote, there is nothing else you can do but to protest -- within the limits of the law. Once again, this is a reality everyone living in a democratic society must learn to adopt and accept.

This is called policy corruption and abuse of power and is a prosecutable offense.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Couple that with the throughly bought and paid for legislature and in many cases

prosecutorial and judicial system, AND his network of up country bully boys and puyais,

and it was a recipe for NOT being able to properly voting him out.

---------------------------------------------

A coup means to cut off, coup d'etat is to

cut off the levers of power from the head of government

So, if the head is more corrupt than the knife...?

'Picking the lesser of two weavils', is not a invalid scenario.

----------------------------------------

Is it treason to save the country from an elected DESPOT

who is demonstrably showing signs of deteriorating mental illness

and ego driven hubris out of control? A valid question.

A leader can be functionally incapacitated and yet be walking and speaking.

That does NOT mean said leader is in rational control.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's OK if Thaksin has puppets,

but not if Abhisit has someone he also must deal with above him?

The hypocracy of all this 'double standards' ranting is incredible.

Everyone answers to others in this life in some fashion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The main issue besides Thaksin's mental illness showing under stress,

was the inability to vote around his rigged system.

I put it together brilliantly, i give him that.

We have been watching the death throws of the dismantling of the 'Thaksin Political Machine'.

A necessary evil for the country to return to peace.

The 800lb gorilla in the corner is thrashing about

as the stern medicine takes hold; it don't like it.

But the medicine dart has been fired and it is coursing the blood stream irrevocably.

Edited April 17, 2009 by animatic

[BHA83]

Yeah.

And another difference is that the "government" which the PAD was looking to overthrow was as much "democratic" as it was a "government" - it BOUGHT the votes it got directly and got the rest by intimidating smaller parties who got voted for by MANY people who believed their "we will NOT work with PPP!" and it didn't do jack sh!t to govern the country, instead it's sole goal was to amend the constitution in such a way that it's own vote buying would have been legal and that Thaksin would come out an angel instead of a convicted criminal.

Sorry, while PAD and UDD or DAAD or "that red scum" are certainly both law breakers, at least the yellows did so for good cause, because what good is law if itself made by criminals..?

Regards....

Thanh

Thanh, please read the replys to your posts, not to do so is impolite. You have been told by other posters that vote buying goes on every election by all the big parties, where are you when the dems turned up at the door? We know the people from the TRT/PPP who kindly donated the money to us at election time, they are friends of the family. We also know the people from the dems who also donated to my beer fund, they live opposite our house! But who pays what, dosn't matter at the end of the day because most villagers already know who they are going to vote for. That is the party that made it possible to borrow money to invest in their own business and keep most family's working in the village. The teenagers do not have to go to Bangkok in search of work, and no girls in our village work in the bars. Even if Thaksin is a crook, all polititians are corrupt here in Thailand, as you know so it makes no odds to them.

I think you wrote you are German, yes? I also take it you implied you believe in the communist ideas, yes? Having holidays in East Germany in the 60's is something I will never forget. It was a nice place and we had good times, BUT the living standards were not a patch to that of West Germany. Communism may be ideal in practice but it does not work, look around you communism has fallen appart in europe, and it will never catch on here.

I hope!

[donx]

I'm really surprised that the BBC retain Head as their BKK reporter. He's hardly their "man on the ground" as he fails to ever get further than his own condo balcony or cocktails at the FCCT and is clearly out of touch with the diversity and variety in political positions within Thailand. He clearly tied his own position to the Red mast long ago and looks vaguely ridiculous for his lack of balance and insight on the Thai political scene. My own suspicion is that he got into bed (hopefully only figuratively speaking) with Jakrapob Penkair at some point in the past and allowed himself to be swayed by the Thaksin line (let's face it, Jakrapob is a very accomplished liar, only surpassed perhaps by his Master) and some "greater goal" to the TRT bandwaggon beyond the cementing of the Shinawatra and cronies political and financial fortunes.

Frankly, Head now has the credibility of a Redshirt left-wing "intellectual", who has consistently missed the point and the boat about what is happening in Thailand and the deeper consequences of prolonging the Thaksin myth bandwaggon.

No argument here.

I have seen decent reporting from him.

But none of it was about Thailand.

Just because what he reports doesn't match your propaganda doesn't make it bad reporting. I believe his article acurately articulates the conflict and the positions of both sides. I don't think either side has much to be proud of. I understand the arguments made on both sides and I understand their sentiments.

This conflict is not going to be resolved for a very long time unless all sides make great strides to reconcile their differences.

What Head always does is reiterate the positive aspects of Thaksin, "friend of the poor" with minimal balance ("though some economists doubt the long term benefits of these policies"). It is always clear that he believes Thaksin was good for Thailand.

That may even be true, but in the end Thaksin was using the country for his own (massive) personal gain, and it was beginning to look like an autocratic dictatorship, however benevolent (open to debate!).

I am not familiar with Head's writings other than the article posted here which is what I have been referring to exclusively in this thread. The following is from that article which, to me, seems to correspond with your own assessment of Thaksin:

"The many, well-founded criticisms made of Mr Thaksin's style of government do not affect that view: that he was autocratic, fatally weakening Thailand's fragile democratic institutions; that he presided over a sharp escalation of human rights violations; that corruption continued to flourish under his administrations; that he shamelessly promoted on the basis of loyalty, not competence.

These are points made tirelessly by the PAD during their anti-Thaksin protests last year, and they are hard to refute."

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi.

I do read all the replies as soon as i checked my e-mail and received the link back to this topic, you see i am a working pwerson who does not spend ALL day watching topics on ThaiVisa

If you haven't noticed i mostly reply directly to them, too, although without excessively using the "quote" function (and to be honest, i haven't figured out how to do a multi-quote anyway).

Yes, i am indeed of German nationality, but from the western part of that country, never been to the area that once was GDR. Still i am calling myself a communist, for this is the only system i could support with all my heart. Everything else is, one way or another, unfair to selected individuals. Sadly, i know very well that in this world it would not function because there's always someone who yearns for "more". Actually, Communism and Buddhism have a lot in common...... Oh, and Europe, or anywhere else for that matter, never HAD Communism - the leaders called their system that, just like a dictator usually calls himself "president", but it wasn't. Because guess what - in Communism there IS no leader as all are 100% equal. You could also call it "the ultimate democracy".

However back to your question. I happened to be in Chiang Mai a few days ahead of and after the election. In the village where i stayed, the only ones coming 'round and offering cash were the PPP guys. They did so in a gentle manner though - not hidden like drug dealers or forceful like mafia, simply by talking to each individual for a moment, offering the cash for the promise to vote the, that was it. My boyfriend's uncle, a farmer and the only one of the whole extended family, accepted the cash and subsequently also voted for PPP. And every evening there were announcements through the village's PA system (loudspeakers mounted to masts around the village) from the village headman that it would be "best to vote for PPP or we will have a dark future". Oh, and by coincidence (i believe so) the local PPP head at the time (is he now PTP? I don't know, honest!) is the richest person in the village with a HUGE luxurious house, a whole bunch of cars etc. So much about "the rich being against Thaksin", THAT one definitely NOT. Despite being PPP, they are nice people so i have nothing against them personally. Rarely rich people are as nice as them, fact.

That all politicians are crooks may be true, but Thaksin is the worst i have personally seen (yes, i once stood just about 5 meters apart from him, in Chinatown, Bangkok). At least other crooked politicians do something for the country... all that Thaksin did was introduce a few populist schemes which, over the long run, will bankrupt the country but of course, the immediate effects look like a miracle (30 Baht health care scheme - my boyfriend had the pleasure of experiencing it, with hours spend waiting for a doctor at the hospital and after an additional 30 seconds being sent home with five (!) Paracetamol tablets. After the second such experience he said, and rightly so, "screw it" and now goes to the "normal" doctor where the treatment may cost 200 Baht but he gets the right medicine and is in-and-out in 20 minutes.

Oh, and back to the "Eastern Germany" situation - i am from the western part and lived through the horror of long-term unemployment, falling through the famed "social network" entirely because of a screw-up between two government institutions and had to resort to prostitution (!!) to keep myself and my little sister alive (the only other option was "become criminal and start stealing food"), while in Eastern Germany there was no such problem - everyone had work, and who didn't still got salary. Sure you had to wait 15 years for a car, so what? I got my first one when i was 25, and i am still alive. Also you couldn't get Bananas every day or a colour television - guess what, many in western Germany can't afford bananas despite them being available year-round and i never needed a television in my life. Therefor in eastern Germany the IMPORTANT things, food and accommodation, were RIDICULOUSLY cheap, so that there were literally no homeless or hungry people.

But then again, GDR is history (brought down, by the way, with a peaceful people's revolution not unlike the one against Thaksin!) and this topic is about the country we chose to live in, Thailand.

Best regards....

Thanh

[Supernova]

And the thing here is that up-country people (in particular) don't care at all who runs the country - all they care for is how much they get for their vote. Hence the "if you don't like them, don't vote for them" doesn't work - the un-liked ones only have to pay, we (i myself at least) saw it happen.

That's the main problem here in Thailand. These people don't know any better and who could really blame them? It's the education system (or lack thereof) that is the root of many problems in Thai society. The key to solving this is to educate people, first by teaching them to think and act for themselves.

I am fully aware that a coup is not democratic. Neither is vote buying. Which doesn't make a coup "right" however if the alternatives are "on-going street battles for years until next election" or "bloodless coup right now", which one would YOU chose? I'm for the coup.

The constitution has laws that deal specifically with violence and public uprisings. The declaration of a State of Emergency falls under this category.

Staging a coup is not an option, no matter what the circumstances are. There isn't a single clause in the constitution which gives an individual or a group of individuals the right to depose of an democratically elected government by means of a hostile takeover or coup d'etat.

I'll admit, there was a time when I use to think the same way you do now. But after having seen the devastating effects a coup can have on a nation (I'm not only referring to Thailand), I have long since abandoned that line of thought. I suggest you do the same. Staging a coup is not an answer nor is it a viable solution to any political stalemate. If anything, it creates even more problems like the one you're seeing right now.

And changing the tax laws, although that was what ultimately broke him, wasn't the point when i talked about "changing laws", instead i meat the laws that forbid vote-buying - wasn't Samak/Somchai's "government" all about having that one law changed so their own vote-buying would become quasi-legal, TRT's disbanding illegal and hence Thaksin "lawfully" back in place? And they wanted to push that through BEFORE the courts could decide on it (and disband PPP, too!) which is why PAD started putting the pressure on.

Although what you mentioned is true, I fail to see the importance of this. The PPP did try very hard to make amendments to several clauses in the constitution (I forgot which ones), that would free former TRT MP's of any wrong-doing and bring about Thaksin's return to power. But the chances of it making it through the vigorous review process is virtually nil. As mentioned in my last post, making amendments to the constitution requires all those involved in the amendment process to come to an agreement on the proposed changes. << This can be a very difficult task to accomplish. As far as I can remember, the PPP didn't get very far in this area.

Most people were against the PPP on this, except for diehard Thaksin fanboys. Sure the PAD also protested against it, but the PAD also had a different agenda up their sleeve.

regarding "Impeachment" and "Vote of non-confidence", i remember reading somewhere that Thaksin stated "i don't care for that", it's been a long time ago though and i can't provide a link to it. It was when the word "dictator" cropped up for the first time, i remember THAT (it was in the newspapers back then). That guy is as un-democratic as a coup.

Well, Thaksin isn't exactly your model democrat nor would I brand him as a dictator either. He sort of falls in between the cracks...

Edited April 17, 2009 by Supernova

[Oberkommando]

Thailand would more likely BECOME a Myanmar if Thaksin regained power.

Remember his ties to the Myanmarese general were pretty tight, that was where his 'fortune teller' was.

Not as close as Democrat ties to the Burmese Junta. Chuan's last government a case in point.

[sriracha john]

Thailand would more likely BECOME a Myanmar if Thaksin regained power.

Remember his ties to the Myanmarese general were pretty tight, that was where his 'fortune teller' was.

Not as close as Democrat ties to the Burmese Junta. Chuan's last government a case in point.

Chuan personally get a Billion Baht from the Burmese junta, did he?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Supreme-Cour...in-t203169.html

Supreme Court Takes New Case Against Thaksin Over Myanmar Loan

[animatic]

Thailand would more likely BECOME a Myanmar if Thaksin regained power.

Remember his ties to the Myanmarese general were pretty tight, that was where his 'fortune teller' was.

Not as close as Democrat ties to the Burmese Junta. Chuan's last government a case in point.

Right, Chuan sold ShinSat and AIS towers all OVER Myanmar for free...

And forced the Export bank to make the loan from the THAI PEOPLE bigger to do it.

How much you betting that loan never gets paid back?

Sarcasm and irony central here.

And how long was Chuan in office? Months maybe.

The difference is avarice and potential is startling comparing Chuan to Thaksin....

Casting aspersions on others,

doesn't slightly deflect them darts aimed at your buddy Thaksin.

Can't change this subject at whim.

Edited April 17, 2009 by animatic

[sriracha john]

Red-shirt Leader in Chiang Rai Arrested

Chiang Rai Police Station has arrested one of the key red-shirt members in the area after he was charged with instigating unlawful political unrest along with a group of fellow red-shirts .

Three core elements of the red-shirt Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorshipor DAAD including Thanit Bunyasineekasem, Atthakorn Kanthachai and Putthachart Koatkaew have been charged with instigating people to violate the law, assembling more than ten people with the intent of disturbing the peace, and unlawfully setting road blockades.

Police officers only arrested Thanit however, while the other two suspects remain at large.

Chaing Rai Police Station has also submitted a petition seeking the court’s approval for arrest warrants for three other key DAAD figures in the province, including former executive of the now-defunct Thai Rak Thai Party, Wisarn Tejatheeravat, Jeeranant Janthawong, and Kesanee Chuenchom.

- TOC / 2009-04-17

[animatic]

Red-shirt Leader in Chiang Rai Arrested

Chiang Rai Police Station has arrested one of the key red-shirt members in the area after he was charged with instigating unlawful political unrest along with a group of fellow red-shirts .

Three core elements of the red-shirt Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorshipor DAAD including Thanit Bunyasineekasem, Atthakorn Kanthachai and Putthachart Koatkaew have been charged with instigating people to violate the law, assembling more than ten people with the intent of disturbing the peace, and unlawfully setting road blockades.

Police officers only arrested Thanit however, while the other two suspects remain at large.

Chaing Rai Police Station has also submitted a petition seeking the court’s approval for arrest warrants for three other key DAAD figures in the province, including former executive of the now-defunct Thai Rak Thai Party, Wisarn Tejatheeravat, Jeeranant Janthawong, and Kesanee Chuenchom.

- TOC / 2009-04-17

About blinking time too.

These reprobates have been causing violence for years now.

This also lets you see how far off the scale red shirts went this weekend.

A sea-change in up country legal position towards them.

[chrislarsson]

He is the Prime Minister and can do whatever he wants within the boundaries of the law. If the general populace feels he has amended and/or enacted laws to benefit himself or has acted unfairly, we (the people) have a choice: Don't vote for him or his party come election time.

During four years in power the PM enacts hundreds of laws and executive degrees.

We, "the people", do not pass judgement on each and every one of them during three seconds it takes to cast a vote and we do not exonerate the PM from each and every wrongdoing commited during four years in power simply because he's got 51% of the vote, especially with the kind of machinations Thai politicians use during the campaign.

I still think it's important to get the facts right.

Thaksin did not change any law regarding taxation. The law that was changed was regarding foreign ownership, which was changed from 25% to 50%. This amendment had been proposed since 2001, and made sense since both Orange and DTAC had higher foreign ownership than 25% already. Also remember that Abhisit criticized Thaksin earlier for not opening up the Thai telecom sector to foreigners faster.

The legal investigation found no irregularities in the sale, except for the transactions made to his son between 2000 and 2002.

[ballpoint]

I still think it's important to get the facts right.

Thaksin did not change any law regarding taxation. The law that was changed was regarding foreign ownership, which was changed from 25% to 50%. This amendment had been proposed since 2001, and made sense since both Orange and DTAC had higher foreign ownership than 25% already. Also remember that Abhisit criticized Thaksin earlier for not opening up the Thai telecom sector to foreigners faster.

The legal investigation found no irregularities in the sale, except for the transactions made to his son between 2000 and 2002.

Okay, supposing he was within his rights to change the law, so then Temasak suddenly bought the shares the following day. Strange isn't it, they just saw it was now legal and walked in and bought the company with no looking at the books or due diligence or other financial and legal checks? Who would be that naive? Either he promised them months before that he'd get the law changed to make it legal, or he told them months before that the law was about to change. Either way it's a crime. Abusing a position of responsibility in order to make a personal gain, or insider trading. Which one was it?

[animatic]

I still think it's important to get the facts right.

Thaksin did not change any law regarding taxation. The law that was changed was regarding foreign ownership, which was changed from 25% to 50%. This amendment had been proposed since 2001, and made sense since both Orange and DTAC had higher foreign ownership than 25% already. Also remember that Abhisit criticized Thaksin earlier for not opening up the Thai telecom sector to foreigners faster.

The legal investigation found no irregularities in the sale, except for the transactions made to his son between 2000 and 2002.

Okay, supposing he was within his rights to change the law, so then Temasak suddenly bought the shares the following day. Strange isn't it, they just saw it was now legal and walked in and bought the company with no looking at the books or due diligence or other financial and legal checks? Who would be that naive? Either he promised them months before that he'd get the law changed to make it legal, or he told them months before that the law was about to change. Either way it's a crime. Abusing a position of responsibility in order to make a personal gain, or insider trading. Which one was it?

EXACTLY!

Temasek would never have touched it UNLESS this was in place,

and so it HAD to have been discussed and a deal struck. Due Diligence.

Change the law and we sign, go to it boyo.

Edited April 17, 2009 by animatic

[chrislarsson]

I still think it's important to get the facts right.

Thaksin did not change any law regarding taxation. The law that was changed was regarding foreign ownership, which was changed from 25% to 50%. This amendment had been proposed since 2001, and made sense since both Orange and DTAC had higher foreign ownership than 25% already. Also remember that Abhisit criticized Thaksin earlier for not opening up the Thai telecom sector to foreigners faster.

The legal investigation found no irregularities in the sale, except for the transactions made to his son between 2000 and 2002.

Okay, supposing he was within his rights to change the law, so then Temasak suddenly bought the shares the following day. Strange isn't it, they just saw it was now legal and walked in and bought the company with no looking at the books or due diligence or other financial and legal checks? Who would be that naive? Either he promised them months before that he'd get the law changed to make it legal, or he told them months before that the law was about to change. Either way it's a crime. Abusing a position of responsibility in order to make a personal gain, or insider trading. Which one was it?

EXACTLY!

Temasek would never have touched it UNLESS this was in place,

and so it HAD to have been discussed and a deal struck. Due Diligence.

Change the law and we sign, go to it boyo.

Insider trading crimes are typically about an executive selling stocks, when he/she knows there are bad news, but it still isn't known to the public.

Selling the stake in Shin Corp pretty much made sense since he was continuously accused of conflict-of-interest corruption. Selling it to a foreign entity was maybe not the best idea, but selling stocks worth of $2 billion domestically may not be that easy without dumping the stock price. This would probably only cause other share holders to declare him a villain instead.

But my point from the beginning was that ppl keep saying that the tax code for capital gains was changed to avoid paying taxes, which it was not.

[xminator]

As Thaksin was officially and lawfully banned from politics, so surely having a proxy would not be legal either, or would it? If it would then why ban him in first place..??

Newin is also officially and lawfully banned from politics. Didnt stop Abhisit from making a deal with him to fullfill is life ambition of becoming PM of Thailand.

[BHA83]

Hi.

I do read all the replies as soon as i checked my e-mail and received the link back to this topic, you see i am a working pwerson who does not spend ALL day watching topics on ThaiVisa

If you haven't noticed i mostly reply directly to them, too, although without excessively using the "quote" function (and to be honest, i haven't figured out how to do a multi-quote anyway).

Yes, i am indeed of German nationality, but from the western part of that country, never been to the area that once was GDR. Still i am calling myself a communist, for this is the only system i could support with all my heart. Everything else is, one way or another, unfair to selected individuals. Sadly, i know very well that in this world it would not function because there's always someone who yearns for "more". Actually, Communism and Buddhism have a lot in common...... Oh, and Europe, or anywhere else for that matter, never HAD Communism - the leaders called their system that, just like a dictator usually calls himself "president", but it wasn't. Because guess what - in Communism there IS no leader as all are 100% equal. You could also call it "the ultimate democracy".

However back to your question. I happened to be in Chiang Mai a few days ahead of and after the election. In the village where i stayed, the only ones coming 'round and offering cash were the PPP guys. They did so in a gentle manner though - not hidden like drug dealers or forceful like mafia, simply by talking to each individual for a moment, offering the cash for the promise to vote the, that was it. My boyfriend's uncle, a farmer and the only one of the whole extended family, accepted the cash and subsequently also voted for PPP. And every evening there were announcements through the village's PA system (loudspeakers mounted to masts around the village) from the village headman that it would be "best to vote for PPP or we will have a dark future". Oh, and by coincidence (i believe so) the local PPP head at the time (is he now PTP? I don't know, honest!) is the richest person in the village with a HUGE luxurious house, a whole bunch of cars etc. So much about "the rich being against Thaksin", THAT one definitely NOT. Despite being PPP, they are nice people so i have nothing against them personally. Rarely rich people are as nice as them, fact.

That all politicians are crooks may be true, but Thaksin is the worst i have personally seen (yes, i once stood just about 5 meters apart from him, in Chinatown, Bangkok). At least other crooked politicians do something for the country... all that Thaksin did was introduce a few populist schemes which, over the long run, will bankrupt the country but of course, the immediate effects look like a miracle (30 Baht health care scheme - my boyfriend had the pleasure of experiencing it, with hours spend waiting for a doctor at the hospital and after an additional 30 seconds being sent home with five (!) Paracetamol tablets. After the second such experience he said, and rightly so, "screw it" and now goes to the "normal" doctor where the treatment may cost 200 Baht but he gets the right medicine and is in-and-out in 20 minutes.

Oh, and back to the "Eastern Germany" situation - i am from the western part and lived through the horror of long-term unemployment, falling through the famed "social network" entirely because of a screw-up between two government institutions and had to resort to prostitution (!!) to keep myself and my little sister alive (the only other option was "become criminal and start stealing food"), while in Eastern Germany there was no such problem - everyone had work, and who didn't still got salary. Sure you had to wait 15 years for a car, so what? I got my first one when i was 25, and i am still alive. Also you couldn't get Bananas every day or a colour television - guess what, many in western Germany can't afford bananas despite them being available year-round and i never needed a television in my life. Therefor in eastern Germany the IMPORTANT things, food and accommodation, were RIDICULOUSLY cheap, so that there were literally no homeless or hungry people.

But then again, GDR is history (brought down, by the way, with a peaceful people's revolution not unlike the one against Thaksin!) and this topic is about the country we chose to live in, Thailand.

Best regards....

Thanh

Sorry I worded the first sentence badly, you see I too am a working man and under normal circumstances I do not have time to post on forums. As it is now I am on holiday and I was on here to keep a check on current events and found some of the insults and untruths thrown in the direction of Essan people, I wanted to join in to counter some of the claims. I do not care who runs the country as I am only a guest here I have no say in the matter, but my wife does and her family who still live in Essan do.

What I should have said to you in the original post is, when you read a reply to your post, take in what has been written. I don't think anyone has denied TRT/PPP payed voters to vote in their favour. But when others and now myself explain to you that THE DEMS DO BUY VOTES AS WELL, this fact seems to be lost with you and many others. You will not acknowlege this fact, just because you have not seen it in your area, does not mean it does not happen! Vote buying does not influence the result in that the people have already decided who they are going to vote for, please give them some credit.

These are the kinds of double standards that upset the country-side folk that do know what is happening. Red cards for TRT/PPP but not for the dems. Why?

I have stated before, our village voted TRT/PPP because they were given the chance to borrow money to invest in their businesses which has given them a chance to 'go ahead'. There is in the village (or was!) what we call in the west 'the feel good factor'.

The 200bt given by each party is not enough to buy the machinery or trucks needed to process and transport the recycled waste that is big business in our village. Loans are needed for this!

Now tell me why they should vote any other way!

[faranginexile]

The military are firmly on the side of the yellows and the military controls the country--they act when they want to act. When it comes to acting against the reds, they did so. Abhisit is merely a puppet--and that is becoming clearer all the time. He's a nice puppet, a smart puppet and a well educated puppet--but a puppet none-the-less.

The above statement - that the military are in charge and are on the side of the yellows - sums up all that has happened in the recent past, and all that will happen for the foreseeable future. It tells you why the PAD were not dislodged or prosecuted, and why the Red Shirts were shut down and will be prosecuted. It explains why successive governments were dismantled, and why the present government will be permitted to continue indefinitely.

The powers that be have made it as clear as they possibly can that, as far as they are concerned, Thaksin's days in power here are finished. He appears either not to understand this, or, more likely, not to accept it. Whether his Songkran fiasco was his last attempted hurrah or not, I suspect that Thaksin and his followers will eventually come to see that they are trying to move an immovable object.

[Oberkommando]

Chuan personally get a Billion Baht from the Burmese junta, did he?

No, but he was just as friendly as the TRT were towards the Junta in Burma and possibly more so.

A familiar tune...

Letter to Thailand Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai

Human Rights Watch is deeply concerned by reports today that the Thai government has refused permission to the International Trade Union movement to hold a conference on "Democracy for Burma" in Bangkok, scheduled for May 24-26, 1999.

In March 1998, police attempted to restrict the participation of about one hundred international human rights advocates in a five-day seminar on East Timor in Bangkok, saying the foreign participants would violate Thai law if they spoke out against Indonesia. This time, the ban appears to have been linked to the European Union-ASEAN summit, with Burma in attendance, that is scheduled to take place in Bangkok at the same time as the cancelled trade union meeting. In addition to cancelling the meeting, the Thai authorities also refused to grant an entry visa to Dr. Sein Win of the National Coalition Government of the Union of Burma (NCGUB).

These actions run contrary to Foreign Minister Surin's position that ASEAN members should be free to criticize actions of other countries in the region. They also call into question Thailand's stated commitment to the internationally recognized rights of free association, assembly, and expression.

Under your leadership, Thailand has implemented major democratic reforms, sending a message to the region that fundamental freedoms in Thailand were being strengthened. The ban on the "democracy for Burma" conference sends a very different signal.

Sincerely,

Sidney Jones

Executive Director (Human Rights Watch)

Visit My Website

[eleison]

The military are firmly on the side of the yellows and the military controls the country--they act when they want to act. When it comes to acting against the reds, they did so. Abhisit is merely a puppet--and that is becoming clearer all the time. He's a nice puppet, a smart puppet and a well educated puppet--but a puppet none-the-less.

The above statement - that the military are in charge and are on the side of the yellows - sums up all that has happened in the recent past, and all that will happen for the foreseeable future. It tells you why the PAD were not dislodged or prosecuted, and why the Red Shirts were shut down and will be prosecuted. It explains why successive governments were dismantled, and why the present government will be permitted to continue indefinitely.

The powers that be have made it as clear as they possibly can that, as far as they are concerned, Thaksin's days in power here are finished. He appears either not to understand this, or, more likely, not to accept it. Whether his Songkran fiasco was his last attempted hurrah or not, I suspect that Thaksin and his followers will eventually come to see that they are trying to move an immovable object.

immovable object, meet Mr. AK47.. People need to respect each other. So far the reds don't think they have a voice in government -- and quite frankly, I don't think they do.

[shawndoc]

The above statement - that the military are in charge and are on the side of the yellows - sums up all that has happened in the recent past, and all that will happen for the foreseeable future. It tells you why the PAD were not dislodged or prosecuted

Oh really?

PAD leaders were arrested and charged. The charges were thrown out (Because the old government charged them with the wrong stuff). They've since been charged with the same crimes as the Reds, and the court case against them is proceeding.

This has been brought up in multiple threads that you have been a part of. Are you delusional or just dishonest?

I think its funny how people on here want the government the reds support reinstated, then those same people complain that that same government gave favoritism to the yellows, are in the pocket of the military, etc.

[sriracha john]

More arrest warrants for UDD leaders

Police issued arrest warrants for seven more leaders of the anti-government United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) on Saturday.

According to the police, the seven red-shirt leaders are in Chiang Rai province, and one of them is Visan Techateerawat (TRT Banned #99), a banned politican and former executive of the court-dissolved Thai Rak Thai Party.

Other six core members include Boonlert Boonsri, Chalong Mahawutthi, Wittaya Tantibhuwanat, Songtham Kid-arn, Ketmanee Chuenchom, and Jiranan Janthawongse. If they do not turn themselves in to authorities, they will be arrested immediately.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...for-udd-leaders

[sriracha john]

According to the police, the seven red-shirt leaders are in Chiang Rai province, and one of them is Visan Techateerawat (TRT Banned #99), a banned politican and former executive of the court-dissolved Thai Rak Thai Party.

more background info on Visaran and his current nominee proxy daughter...

Visaradee is the only daughter of Visarn Techathirawat, one of the 111 former executives (TRT Banned # 99) of the now disbanded Thai Rak Thai Party who were stripped of their electoral rights for five years for electoral fraud.

At 27, she is only one week older than the youngest female MP in Parliament, Chinnicha Wongsawat (seated on right), who is the daughter of former Prime Minister Somchai Wongsawat (PPP Banned # 5), who as a Party executive is banned for 5 years for electoral fraud.

Constitution Court Files Defamation Suit against Opposition's Rising Star MP

A rising star from the opposition party, who found herself in the limelight during last week's censure debate, now seems in trouble after the Constitution Court filed a defamation lawsuit against her.

Deputy Secretary-General of the Constitution Court's Office, Chaowana Trimas, revealed that the office had filed a defamation lawsuit against the opposition's rising star MP Visaradee Techateerawat at the Prarajchawang police station yesterday.

The Deputy Secretary-General said Visaradee had insulted the Constitution Court and state officials, violating criminal law acts 198 and 136.

[chrislarsson]

The above statement - that the military are in charge and are on the side of the yellows - sums up all that has happened in the recent past, and all that will happen for the foreseeable future. It tells you why the PAD were not dislodged or prosecuted

Oh really?

PAD leaders were arrested and charged. The charges were thrown out (Because the old government charged them with the wrong stuff). They've since been charged with the same crimes as the Reds, and the court case against them is proceeding.

This has been brought up in multiple threads that you have been a part of. Are you delusional or just dishonest?

I think its funny how people on here want the government the reds support reinstated, then those same people complain that that same government gave favoritism to the yellows, are in the pocket of the military, etc.

So what were the charges then, and what are they now?

[animatic]

More arrest warrants for UDD leaders

Police issued arrest warrants for seven more leaders of the anti-government United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) on Saturday.

According to the police, the seven red-shirt leaders are in Chiang Rai province, and one of them is Visan Techateerawat (TRT Banned #99), a banned politican and former executive of the court-dissolved Thai Rak Thai Party.

Other six core members include Boonlert Boonsri, Chalong Mahawutthi, Wittaya Tantibhuwanat, Songtham Kid-arn, Ketmanee Chuenchom, and Jiranan Janthawongse. If they do not turn themselves in to authorities, they will be arrested immediately.

Continued here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...for-udd-leaders

And the dragnet logically widens another notch.

[shawndoc]

So what were the charges then, and what are they now?

Try clicking the link I gave.

Those are the charges against the PAD leaders, which are the same charges against most of the red shirts. The additional charges against some of the reds have to deal with the extra violence they committed.

[sriracha john]

Jatuporn Phrompan as a PTP MP and as a Red Shirt Leader

Government’s Chief Whip: Jatuporn’s MP privilege revocation not in agenda of Parliament

Chairman of the Government Whip Chinaworn Boonyakiet says the revocation of Jatuporn Phrompan's MP privilege is not included in the agenda of the parliament meeting next week.

Mr. Chinaworn Boonyakiet said the joint parliamentary session between MPs and Senators mid-next week would not touch on the revocation of parliamentary privilege of Jatuporn, a leader of the anti-government United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship. Mr. Chinaworn added the coalition parties had not yet discussed the issue.

The parliamentary privilege can prevent the UDD leader from being arrested after an arrest warrant was issued against him for his inciting of the UDD supporters during a state of emergency, an act deemed violating of the emergency decree.

The Government Chief Whip also suggested Jatuporn show responsibility as a member of the House by surrendering himself to the police and defending himself in court.

He said Jatuporn overrated himself by challenging the prime minister to request the parliament to cancel his privilege, adding that the UDD leader was only politically motivated by saying so.

- ThaiNews / 2009-04-18

[ballpoint]

Jatuporn Phrompan as a PTP MP and as a Red Shirt Leader

(Story snipped to save space.)

Funny how all the reds on here squealing about Kasit being in the government when he wasn't even on the PAD leadership team are silent about one of the reds primary leaders being in the opposition.

Edited April 18, 2009 by ballpoint

[animatic]

Jatuporn Phrompan as a PTP MP and as a Red Shirt Leader

(Story snipped to save space.)

Funny how all the reds on here squealing about Kasit being in the government when he wasn't even on the PAD leadership team are silent about one of the reds primary leaders being in the opposition.

And even more pointedly :

Kasit is not charge with anything beyond probable bad judgment in making a speach

Which is not actionable and is certainly not treason or sedition.

If so ANY MP, Jatuporn included who asks for a governm,ent to resign would be treasonous.

In comparison

Jutuporn is charged with incitement to riot, and problaly treason,

is CLEARLY an OPENLY seen as a red Shirt leader. Even as they riot,

and uses his MP status to avoid arrest.

The moral bankruptcy is just staggering.

Where ARE those pro Thaksin Red supporters now?

[Koo82]

The above statement - that the military are in charge and are on the side of the yellows - sums up all that has happened in the recent past, and all that will happen for the foreseeable future. It tells you why the PAD were not dislodged or prosecuted

PAD leaders were arrested and charged. The charges were thrown out (Because the old government charged them with the wrong stuff). They've since been charged with the same crimes as the Reds, and the court case against them is proceeding.

Proceeding what? All PAD are still free.

They occupied Government House in August last year but the Police brought up the case of 7 October. Reason: Kasit was not in the yellow group that day, so no arrest warrant to him. Abhisit said if Kasit is in the list of arrest warrant, Kasit will be out.

Game of buying time.

"Proceeding" sounds fair. But how do they "proceed"? They issued letters to tell PAD leaders to report to Police early last month. PAD said they were not free and would see police on 30 March . And no police dared to say anything. It was not arrest warrant. If they had true heart to deal with PAD, all leaders should have gotten arrest warrants on 6 or 7 December, a few days after they left Suvarnabhumi.

Now they started the chorus "we have to solve economy problem". Who caused that? When Khun Thaksin was here, we had money to keep, people had jobs and Thailand was proud to be a strong country in South East Asia. After they knocked Khun Thaksin, they didn't know how to make money (being army, not businessman), so they sang "sufficiency economy" song . To make it worst, the yellow bunch after months of protesting cleverly blocked airports.

To future color groups, PAD did not win, so don't follow them to block airports again. PPP was down because the party was dissolved.