More Rallies 'as Soon As Decree Ends'

[chrislarsson]

Who attacked the Asean summit?

The REDS. That was shameful, a force for good in the world and you killed it. Shame on you red buggers.

Who stayed in Government House for 3 months and 2 airports for 1 week?

You are like a broken record. Frankly, what the reds did during that Songkran time was MUCH WORSE and MUCH MORE VIOLENT than anything the yellows every did and that is why your Thaskin is in the crapper. Abhisit gave you enough rope to HANG YOURSELVES and you were fools enough to do exactly that. You thought you had the support of the masses (by you I mean fugitive criminal Thaksin) to mount a violent revolution, but, guess what, you didn't. Start over. Change colors or something but by all means you must 100 percent dump Thaksin and terrorist violent tactics. BTW, did it ever occur to you that Abhisit is somebody who might be possibly be open to reasonable negotiation? He can't be a success with revolutionary pests like you chasing him everywhere he goes with your MOLOTOV COCKTAILS and GAS TRUCKS and such like. He knows he needs to compromise. How about your side giving that a sincere try for a change? Aside from your objection to how Mark came to power, he is objectively a relatively clean politician. You can never say that about Thaksin.

Frankly, I do not believe your side sincerely WANTS to engage in peaceful negotiations. If that is true, your side deserves nothing but total disdain from civilized people.

And what do you think would have happened if the army tried to retake the airport? By any measurement the yellows have cost the economy much more than the reds.

[Jingthing]

And what do you think would have happened if the army tried to retake the airport? By any measurement the yellows have cost the economy much more than the reds.

They wouldn't have.

BTW, they didn't stop the reds from taking over the Asean summit either.

Economy? Yes, damage from all sides, who's counting?

Look, your lovely reds directly attacked the Prime Minister. Physically. NOT COOL.

[chrislarsson]

Sadly, this has deterorated into a tit-for-tat. Some people choose to blame Thaksin for everything bad that has ever happened. I am sure if the A-H1N1 comes to Thailand it will be his fault as well.

The point is, that democracy needs to go forward and for that happen it means that people be allowed to vote. This isn't the current trend in Thailand. I don't think the Reds will go away and what they want won't go away either. It's time for the elite to see this and re-define themselves and begin to share power.

I don't see that happening in the near future.

It's pretty sad, but this is the only sensible posting I have read today.

[Jingthing]

Sadly, this has deterorated into a tit-for-tat. Some people choose to blame Thaksin for everything bad that has ever happened. I am sure if the A-H1N1 comes to Thailand it will be his fault as well.

The point is, that democracy needs to go forward and for that happen it means that people be allowed to vote. This isn't the current trend in Thailand. I don't think the Reds will go away and what they want won't go away either. It's time for the elite to see this and re-define themselves and begin to share power.

I don't see that happening in the near future.

It's pretty sad, but this is the only sensible posting I have read today.

I found it absurd. There is plenty to blame on Thaksin. The recent Songkran protest fiascos for example. Nobody will blame Thaksin for H1N1 virus when it comes to Thailand (any day now). That implies the rejection of violent red tactics and the loss of all face for Thaksin is irrational. It is not.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[chrislarsson]

And what do you think would have happened if the army tried to retake the airport? By any measurement the yellows have cost the economy much more than the reds.

They wouldn't have.

BTW, they didn't stop the reds from taking over the Asean summit either.

Economy? Yes, damage from all sides, who's counting?

Look, your lovely reds directly attacked the Prime Minister. Physically. NOT COOL.

Firstly, I'm not a red.

The ASEAN summit was over pretty quickly. So I guess there was not much time for the army to act anyway.

The cost of the airport seizures was estimated to exceed 200 billion baht. I don't think the damage done on Songkran was large enough for anybody to be bothered to count.

It's not difficult to see a scenario where some yellows would be attacking Thaksin either. It's not possible to have a crowd of thousands of ppl without a few bad apples.

[ballpoint]

Sadly, this has deterorated into a tit-for-tat. Some people choose to blame Thaksin for everything bad that has ever happened. I am sure if the A-H1N1 comes to Thailand it will be his fault as well.

The point is, that democracy needs to go forward and for that happen it means that people be allowed to vote. This isn't the current trend in Thailand. I don't think the Reds will go away and what they want won't go away either. It's time for the elite to see this and re-define themselves and begin to share power.

I don't see that happening in the near future.

It's pretty sad, but this is the only sensible posting I have read today.

It's pretty sad that, despite their proven violence, thuggery and stated aim of reinstating Thaksin, some people still see the red shirts as a golden bastion of democracy. The red shirts were set up as a group with the sole intention of countering and attacking the PAD protests. They "reinvented" themselves as a prodemocracy movement once Thaksin lost control of parliament - both directly and through proxies. Their propaganda has proved to be successful with many Thais, and indeed, many members of this forum, but a large number of those supporters went on to reject them following their shameful recent activities. Sure, fringe groups have joined it in the hope of gaining their own version of democracy - the Giles Ungpakorns et al, but the core leaders are still the same violent thugs whose only interest is bringing Thaksin back and regaining their place at the trough. Good intentions do not excuse joining a hate mongering group, although sadly, history has shown it to be common over the years, usually returning to bite the good intentioned ones on the arse - the CIA being particulary adept at such operations. The enemy of my enemy usually turns out to become my enemy too in the end. I am not blaming Thaksin for every bad thing that's happened, only the bad things he caused to happen, and am not saying the red groups continued support for him is the only reason for deploring them. The events they orchestrated together over Songkhran being more than enough reason for that. However, your example of the current flu virus was an interesting one, there being at least one reported case of a child dying of bird flu because of the TRT cover up of that virus. "Captan Boonmanut, a 6-year-old Thai boy, became infected in Kanchanaburi Province and died Sunday night in a Bangkok hospital. The boy's father, a farmer, accused the Thai government of covering up. Thai officials confirmed Friday that the disease had struck, after weeks of denials. 'The government knew, so why didn't they tell the public so that we could protect ourselves?' Chamnan Boonmanut said in an interview with The Associated Press ".

http://www.china.org.cn/english/international/85568.htm

No, you can't blame him for everything, but the things he did do are ample cause for condemning him. Do you really want him back?

[ballpoint]

Firstly, I'm not a red.

The ASEAN summit was over pretty quickly. So I guess there was not much time for the army to act anyway.

The cost of the airport seizures was estimated to exceed 200 billion baht. I don't think the damage done on Songkran was large enough for anybody to be bothered to count.

It's not difficult to see a scenario where some yellows would be attacking Thaksin either. It's not possible to have a crowd of thousands of ppl without a few bad apples.

Of course, the yellows might have blown up the airport, stolen all the planes parked there and flown them into buildings, burnt down government house and rode naked up Sukhumvit Road on a baby elephant. But they didn't. And, rather tellingly, the one PAD man who advocated violence as a tactic, Panlop Pinmalee, left when his plans were rejected. He's now firmly on the red's side.

The reds might have killed innocents, burnt and destroyed public property, threatened the lives and homes of the very poor they profess to support, and bored every one of us with repetitions of the same old unsupported allegations and lies as they always have. But they, oh wait a minute, they did.

Also interesting to see your assertion that two innocents murdered are of less value than a bunch of stranded tourists. If we put everything in monetary terms, it would be far cheaper to get rid of everyone in Isaan, and turn it into one vast mechanised rice, sugar and rubber farm. Production would rocket, costs would plummet and we wouldn't have all those poor people causing trouble any more.

[Jingthing]

And what do you think would have happened if the army tried to retake the airport? By any measurement the yellows have cost the economy much more than the reds.

They wouldn't have.

BTW, they didn't stop the reds from taking over the Asean summit either.

Economy? Yes, damage from all sides, who's counting?

Look, your lovely reds directly attacked the Prime Minister. Physically. NOT COOL.

Firstly, I'm not a red.

The ASEAN summit was over pretty quickly. So I guess there was not much time for the army to act anyway.

The cost of the airport seizures was estimated to exceed 200 billion baht. I don't think the damage done on Songkran was large enough for anybody to be bothered to count.

It's not difficult to see a scenario where some yellows would be attacking Thaksin either. It's not possible to have a crowd of thousands of ppl without a few bad apples.

Talking to you is frustrating frankly because you sound poorly informed.

Songkran side effect? Did you SERIOUSLY think I was talking about lost hotel business for Songkran in Bangkok? No. I was talking about images all over the world of Bangkok looking like Beirut, blood in the streets, crazy RED SHIRT anarchists with MOLOTOV cocktails, violent attacks on the prime minister. That translates into VERY SEVERE economic damage going years into the future. Thank you reds.

BTW, the Asean summit disruption made Thailand look very bad all over the world, and businesses have been PULLING INVESTMENTS because they perceive this is a severely politically unstable country. BTW, the Pattaya mayor has said it will take YEARS for Pattaya tourism to recover from the damage of the Asean disaster. Thanks again, reds.

The red economic argument about the airport yellows while it might have had power BEFORE Asean and Songkran is 100 percent HOLLOW now. The open Thaksin violent revolt was a complete game changer. And he LOST.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[chrislarsson]

Sadly, this has deterorated into a tit-for-tat. Some people choose to blame Thaksin for everything bad that has ever happened. I am sure if the A-H1N1 comes to Thailand it will be his fault as well.

The point is, that democracy needs to go forward and for that happen it means that people be allowed to vote. This isn't the current trend in Thailand. I don't think the Reds will go away and what they want won't go away either. It's time for the elite to see this and re-define themselves and begin to share power.

I don't see that happening in the near future.

It's pretty sad, but this is the only sensible posting I have read today.

It's pretty sad that, despite their proven violence, thuggery and stated aim of reinstating Thaksin, some people still see the red shirts as a golden bastion of democracy. The red shirts were set up as a group with the sole intention of countering and attacking the PAD protests. They "reinvented" themselves as a prodemocracy movement once Thaksin lost control of parliament - both directly and through proxies. Their propaganda has proved to be successful with many Thais, and indeed, many members of this forum, but a large number of those supporters went on to reject them following their shameful recent activities. Sure, fringe groups have joined it in the hope of gaining their own version of democracy - the Giles Ungpakorns et al, but the core leaders are still the same violent thugs whose only interest is bringing Thaksin back and regaining their place at the trough. Good intentions do not excuse joining a hate mongering group, although sadly, history has shown it to be common over the years, usually returning to bite the good intentioned ones on the arse - the CIA being particulary adept at such operations. The enemy of my enemy usually turns out to become my enemy too in the end. I am not blaming Thaksin for every bad thing that's happened, only the bad things he caused to happen, and am not saying the red groups continued support for him is the only reason for deploring them. The events they orchestrated together over Songkhran being more than enough reason for that. However, your example of the current flu virus was an interesting one, there being at least one reported case of a child dying of bird flu because of the TRT cover up of that virus. "Captan Boonmanut, a 6-year-old Thai boy, became infected in Kanchanaburi Province and died Sunday night in a Bangkok hospital. The boy's father, a farmer, accused the Thai government of covering up. Thai officials confirmed Friday that the disease had struck, after weeks of denials. 'The government knew, so why didn't they tell the public so that we could protect ourselves?' Chamnan Boonmanut said in an interview with The Associated Press ".

http://www.china.org.cn/english/international/85568.htm

No, you can't blame him for everything, but the things he did do are ample cause for condemning him. Do you really want him back?

Not really. I'm only reacting to that ppl do blame him for everything and much of it is just hype. And I'm a bit worried that the alternatives may be worse. I'm not talking about the democrats who are fine.

[animatic]

No, you can't blame him for everything,

but the things he did do are ample cause for condemning him.

Do you really want him back?

No of course not.

It's irrational to want him back anymore.

Edited May 4, 2009 by animatic

[ballpoint]

No, you can't blame him for everything,

but the things he did do are ample cause for condemning him.

Do you really want him back?

No of course not.

It's irrational to want him back anymore.

How long before we get someone replying with "I love Khun T, he's my PM?" Oh sorry, you said irrational, I guess that reply wouldn't count.

[chrislarsson]

And what do you think would have happened if the army tried to retake the airport? By any measurement the yellows have cost the economy much more than the reds.

They wouldn't have.

BTW, they didn't stop the reds from taking over the Asean summit either.

Economy? Yes, damage from all sides, who's counting?

Look, your lovely reds directly attacked the Prime Minister. Physically. NOT COOL.

Firstly, I'm not a red.

The ASEAN summit was over pretty quickly. So I guess there was not much time for the army to act anyway.

The cost of the airport seizures was estimated to exceed 200 billion baht. I don't think the damage done on Songkran was large enough for anybody to be bothered to count.

It's not difficult to see a scenario where some yellows would be attacking Thaksin either. It's not possible to have a crowd of thousands of ppl without a few bad apples.

Talking to you is frustrating frankly because you sound poorly informed.

Songkran side effect? Did you SERIOUSLY think I was talking about lost hotel business for Songkran in Bangkok? No. I was talking about images all over the world of Bangkok looking like Beirut, blood in the streets, crazy RED SHIRT anarchists with MOLOTOV cocktails, violent attacks on the prime minister. That translates into VERY SEVERE economic damage going years into the future. Thank you reds.

BTW, the Asean summit disruption made Thailand look very bad all over the world, and businesses have been PULLING INVESTMENTS because they perceive this is a severely politically unstable country. BTW, the Pattaya mayor has said it will take YEARS for Pattaya tourism to recover from the damage of the Asean disaster. Thanks again, reds.

The red economic argument about the airport yellows while it might have had power BEFORE Asean and Songkran is 100 percent HOLLOW now. The open Thaksin violent revolt was a complete game changer. And he LOST.

The estimated cost of the airport seizures was done by Bank of Thailand. It has nothing to do with yellow or red. Thai Airways alone estimated their cost to 20 billion.

While I do understand your anger towards the reds, I do not understand your lack of anger toward the yellows.

Not that it matters, but it's a funny argument that it would take YEARS for tourism to recover in Pattaya because of the attack on Asean, when most yellows argued that tourism would recover quickly after the airport seizures.

Anyway, the reason the reds were not dealt with effectively, was that a very dangerous precedent was set with yellows. Any group causing disruptions to the public, should be dealt with immediately, regardless of color.

Edited May 4, 2009 by chrislarsson

[HagenvonTronje]

Thug's thugs. Responsible for the fascist action of stopping the recent planned Chiang Mai gay festival. Very pro democratic, yeah, sure.

are you talking about the so called 2nd gay parade in CM or what for a 'festival'?

not sure if you can label those protestors fascist thugs. they have just been against the parade and the ladyboy road show. i am not sure how much political motivated is such an parade is or just a fun event.

and the protesters just followed an opinion expressed by other gay activists, strongly opposed such a parade. there was also a big debate on TV a week before the parade.

read this article: Veteran gay activist slams Chiang Mai's second pride parade

[Jingthing]

Whatever it was, on the day of the event it was about to happen and the red thugs shut it down under THREAT OF VIOLENCE. It was widely reported and you can't rewrite history now. In CM, that particular sect of reds is considered very hard core and violent. Painting themselves as freedom loving and the voice of "true" democracy does not cut it. THUGS, pure and simple.

http://www.thaipro.com/thailand_00/4025-ga...-chiang-mai.htm

THUGS, nothing but THUGS

To be clear, I consider the CM action very minor compared to attacking the Asean conference, the violent attacks on Abhisit, and "black Songkran" but just another indication of the kind of dangerous, violent THUGS we are dealing with. Happily, they are on the DECLINE.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[sriracha john]

Thug's thugs. Responsible for the fascist action of stopping the recent planned Chiang Mai gay festival. Very pro democratic, yeah, sure.

< blathering snipped >

The Red Shirt thugs were thoroughly panned for their thuggish behavior in Chiang Mai, but if you'd like to defend their actions, perhaps you should do so in the topic-specific thread that is more appropriate:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Governor-Pet...-M-t240538.html

Edited May 4, 2009 by sriracha john

[Cayenne]

Are those crazy reds still going to protest on May 6th as planned? Man, they never learn do they?

[Plus]

you can't rewrite history now

Just watch him

Man, they never learn do they?

Apparently not.

Kind of flies in the face of postulate that all men are created equal.

[chrislarsson]

Firstly, I'm not a red.

The ASEAN summit was over pretty quickly. So I guess there was not much time for the army to act anyway.

The cost of the airport seizures was estimated to exceed 200 billion baht. I don't think the damage done on Songkran was large enough for anybody to be bothered to count.

It's not difficult to see a scenario where some yellows would be attacking Thaksin either. It's not possible to have a crowd of thousands of ppl without a few bad apples.

Of course, the yellows might have blown up the airport, stolen all the planes parked there and flown them into buildings, burnt down government house and rode naked up Sukhumvit Road on a baby elephant. But they didn't. And, rather tellingly, the one PAD man who advocated violence as a tactic, Panlop Pinmalee, left when his plans were rejected. He's now firmly on the red's side.

The reds might have killed innocents, burnt and destroyed public property, threatened the lives and homes of the very poor they profess to support, and bored every one of us with repetitions of the same old unsupported allegations and lies as they always have. But they, oh wait a minute, they did.

Also interesting to see your assertion that two innocents murdered are of less value than a bunch of stranded tourists. If we put everything in monetary terms, it would be far cheaper to get rid of everyone in Isaan, and turn it into one vast mechanised rice, sugar and rubber farm. Production would rocket, costs would plummet and we wouldn't have all those poor people causing trouble any more.

Arguing who is the worst terrorist is meaningless.

How is it possible to be so blind? You see every single crime of the reds. When you look at the yellows all you can see is a few stranded tourists.

The damage done at the airport seizures never had anything to do with stranded tourists. why even mentioning it?

[Jingthing]

Arguing who is the worst terrorist is meaningless.

And a definite no win situation for a red or red apologist, eh?

[animatic]

Listen to the White Shirts for a change.

They make the most sense of all.

[hammered]

Mmmm Guys you may wanna get with the times. The whites have had their first rally and a right assortment of participants at round the country rallies. Military representation, government representation, local authority representation, ordinary people, businessmen and (people are going to love this I can just feel it) Khwanchai of Udon reds fame featured in a local white rally.

Interesting to see with all talk a week or so ago about the blues we now have the whites taking center stage. Apparently both are linked to government but the whites seem to go further than that. Is white a response to blue? Is Khwanchai's involvement to do with Isaan politcs and worry that Newin and the blues could sweep the Isaan?

Who mentioned realignment of alliances?

[chrislarsson]

Arguing who is the worst terrorist is meaningless.

And a definite no win situation for a red or red apologist, eh?

If elections are hold today. Who do you believe are the most likely to accept the result regardless of the outcome?

I don't know about UDD, but I know PAD would not.

[TAWP]

Arguing who is the worst terrorist is meaningless.

And a definite no win situation for a red or red apologist, eh?

If elections are hold today. Who do you believe are the most likely to accept the result regardless of the outcome?

I don't know about UDD, but I know PAD would not.

Yes, you 'know' that. Sounds fair and balanced.

And you have no love for either groups.

That you are always defending one of them is pure coincidence.

Edited May 5, 2009 by TAWP

[chrislarsson]

Arguing who is the worst terrorist is meaningless.

And a definite no win situation for a red or red apologist, eh?

If elections are hold today. Who do you believe are the most likely to accept the result regardless of the outcome?

I don't know about UDD, but I know PAD would not.

Yes, you 'know' that. Sounds fair and balanced.

And you have no love for either groups.

That you are always defending one of them is pure coincidence.

It's not a coincidence. It's a result of most people here being very pro-yellow. It's also a result of many here getting the facts wrong.

And I'm not interested in what individual people do. I'm sure both the yellows and the reds are not interested in violence, at least not violence that will make themselves look bad and loose support.

Edited May 5, 2009 by chrislarsson

[hammered]

It's not a coincidence. It's a result of most people here being very pro-yellow. It's also a result of many here getting the facts wrong.

And I'm not interested in what individual people do. I'm sure both the yellows and the reds are not interested in violence, at least not violence that will make themselves look bad and loose support.

Which is what makes white so appealing. Blue dont seem to have reached the dizzy heights of depravity of the other two colours yet either.

What are people going to do when they wake up to the reality that this isnt a two horse race; that the game and probably alliances are changing; that a lot of what people have been fed is propoganda BS; that while everyone concentrates and obsesses on red and yellow all kinds of games are going on; and who benefits by keeping the middle and lower classes divided? ( I use middle in a more european context here).

[webfact]

REDS' RALLY

Reds to set record straight on Sunday

By The Nation

Published on May 5, 2009

DAAD leader Veera Musikapong said yesterday at a press conference at the D-Station that the red shirts would gather at Wat Pai Kiew to hold a Chinese-style party from 4pm to midnight.

Pheu Thai MP and red-shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan said they would discuss what had happened during Songkran. He also dismissed Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's statement that the emergency decree had to be imposed after some protesters cornered him at the Interior Ministry. The prime minister's car was battered by red-shirt crowds and he narrowly escaped a physical assault.

Jatuporn also rejected a statement from PM's Secretary-General Nipon Promphan that the red shirts had attacked him, saying what actually happened was that the protesters helped remove Nipon from the car.

He said the red shirts would "reveal the truth" about what happened on that day in a chronological manner. "We will reveal that this government is a tyrant and a murderer,'' he said.

Abhisit said he was willing to let D-Station resume broadcasting if it promised not to provoke unrest and intimidate the media.

Meanwhile, National Police Commissioner General Patcharawat Wongsuwan said the police would use strict measures on Sunday to keep law and order. He added that there were no intelligence reports as to whether the red shirts were planning to disrupt the Asean meeting of health ministers at Bangkok's Dusit Thani Hotel on Thursday and Friday.

In Chiang Mai, about 30 red shirts led by DAAD leader Surachai Sae Dan met at a hotel to chart out their political direction.

Petcharawat Wattanapongsirikul, a red-shirt leader in Chiang Mai, said the DAAD people would close their accounts with Bangkok Bank because it supported the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Another DAAD leader, Somyos Prueksakasemsuk, said the closing of bank accounts was a peaceful struggle and that every citizen had the right to do so. He said the red shirts would not pressure the government by disrupting the Asean meeting, but will demand that the government allow D-Station to start broadcasting.

[Jingthing]

"reveal the truth"

That one is rich.

Like going to the meat butcher for vegetables.

Am I biased against everything red now? YES! They lost me when they attacked Asean, when they threatened the LIFE of Abhisit, when they killed civilians at the market, when they threatened to blow up a gas truck in a residential area. How anyone who is not a true red believer can listen to even one word out their Thaksinista mouths is beyond me.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Jingthing

[webfact]

"reveal the truth"

That one is rich.

Like going to the meat butcher for vegetables.

Am I biased against everything red now? YES! They lost me when they attacked Asean, when they threatened the LIFE of Abhisit, when they killed civilians at the market, when they threatened to blow up a gas truck in a residential area. How anyone who is not a true red believer can listen to even one word out their Thaksinista mouths is beyond me.

they try everything to save their masters ar5e with hope of eternal financial benefits in return!

[hammered]

REDS' RALLY

Reds to set record straight on Sunday

By The Nation

Published on May 5, 2009

DAAD leader Veera Musikapong said yesterday at a press conference at the D-Station that the red shirts would gather at Wat Pai Kiew to hold a Chinese-style party from 4pm to midnight.

Pheu Thai MP and red-shirt leader Jatuporn Prompan said they would discuss what had happened during Songkran. He also dismissed Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's statement that the emergency decree had to be imposed after some protesters cornered him at the Interior Ministry. The prime minister's car was battered by red-shirt crowds and he narrowly escaped a physical assault.

Jatuporn also rejected a statement from PM's Secretary-General Nipon Promphan that the red shirts had attacked him, saying what actually happened was that the protesters helped remove Nipon from the car.

He said the red shirts would "reveal the truth" about what happened on that day in a chronological manner. "We will reveal that this government is a tyrant and a murderer,'' he said.

Abhisit said he was willing to let D-Station resume broadcasting if it promised not to provoke unrest and intimidate the media.

Meanwhile, National Police Commissioner General Patcharawat Wongsuwan said the police would use strict measures on Sunday to keep law and order. He added that there were no intelligence reports as to whether the red shirts were planning to disrupt the Asean meeting of health ministers at Bangkok's Dusit Thani Hotel on Thursday and Friday.

In Chiang Mai, about 30 red shirts led by DAAD leader Surachai Sae Dan met at a hotel to chart out their political direction.

Petcharawat Wattanapongsirikul, a red-shirt leader in Chiang Mai, said the DAAD people would close their accounts with Bangkok Bank because it supported the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Another DAAD leader, Somyos Prueksakasemsuk, said the closing of bank accounts was a peaceful struggle and that every citizen had the right to do so. He said the red shirts would not pressure the government by disrupting the Asean meeting, but will demand that the government allow D-Station to start broadcasting.

The very least the red shirt leaders still present in the country can do is admit they lost control of their people. To say that things people saw happen live on TV didnt happen and to do so a long time in news time, after the events is just not going to cut it except with the chosen faithful.

I think Suranand was right when he said the reds are in retreat last week.

Khwanchai attended a white rally yesterday in his province. LCM51 seem to be the only group doing much now in the northern redoubt of Chaing Mai and LCM51 are on the more troglodyte violent wing of reds with a bit of attacking corn farmers, moderate red groups, an HIV awareness parade and reportedly murder under their belt already.

Still the red excesses following the yellow excesses has opened a window for possible negotiations in parlaiment.Lets hope that moves ahead

[hammered]

"reveal the truth"

That one is rich.

Like going to the meat butcher for vegetables.

Am I biased against everything red now? YES! They lost me when they attacked Asean, when they threatened the LIFE of Abhisit, when they killed civilians at the market, when they threatened to blow up a gas truck in a residential area. How anyone who is not a true red believer can listen to even one word out their Thaksinista mouths is beyond me.

they try everything to save their masters ar5e with hope of eternal financial benefits in return!

Some of the more pro-action reds around Victory monument time and before ASEAN and the red riot, accused the 3 main leaders of not listening to anyone, not even Jakrapob, and there was even gossip that the three may be more interested in Thaksin's money than ........

The red riot cannot just be spun away. It has been a PR disaster as well as a tactical failure on quite a large scale. The 111 did not mobilise their people when Thaksin called for it and by and large didnt even bother showing up at GH to speak. The red riot was seen live worldwide and the red movement was even condemned by the US government. They cannot disappear that they were connected to it. This is especially true when some of their own leaders have criticised the tactics. Poltically they are in a very hard place right now.