My Rant On Thai Drinking Habits

[jaideeguy]

Having lived here for 8+ yrs [and survived 10 songkrans], I've come to the realization that [most] Thais have a totally unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

Most....

Drink til there is no more alcohol [or money to buy].

Drink til they drop or puke.

Keep topping off the drinks, so it's impossible to sip slowly [pace yourself].

They blame the drink [and not the drinker] for actions committed during a drinking session.

They drive while drunk [as we just witnessed this last deadly week].

They get loud and stupid, often showing off their drunkenness.

They are in total denial about the damage it does to families, innocent victims of accidents. They drink at any occasion, death, house warming, weddings, graduations, children's birthdays [setting a good example for the next generation].

Drinking and selling of alcohol at wats makes me wonder about the 'values' of Buddhism.

And if you don't join them in a drink, you are 'a stuck up falang'.

IMHO, [demon] alcohol is the single biggest enemy to Thai culture and the Thai family unit and They will be the last to admit it. do a google and see how many AA or equivalent organizations there are here.

And FYI, I am a drinker my self, but have learned decades ago, when to stop [or at least slow down] and I am not saying that I am better than they are, but just admitting that I don't like to drink 'Thai Style'

[F1fanatic]

Ummm, I've seen lots of farangs here behaving exactly the same way!

[davejonesbkk]

Drink til there is no more alcohol [or money to buy].

Drink til they drop or puke.

Keep topping off the drinks, so it's impossible to sip slowly [pace yourself].

They blame the drink [and not the drinker] for actions committed during a drinking session.

They get loud and stupid, often showing off their drunkenness.

Hmmm why is that these 5 above seem soooo familiar to me?

[highlander76]

I agree with you I do not know of one single thai family that has not lost a family member because of alcohol my wife,s father drunk himself to death and my wife,s sisters husband was killed by a drunk driver four years ago

[geriatrickid]

You may wish to consider observing Thais of a different social position. A great many Thais limit their alcohol intake. I drink more than a few of my friends and I'm a wuss by western standards.

[jaideeguy]

I will admit that some of us falangs do the same same, but the average falang [expat] here is somewhat disfunctional and maybe Thai drinking habits are the attraction, as there is no peer pressure to maintain control.

The average tourist is here to 'party' and they don't set the best example [of falang culture] either.

[pampal]

Seen alot worse in the British Isles and many parties in the US.

[F1fanatic]

Seen alot worse in the British Isles and many parties in the US.

You've seen "a lot worse" in Britain and the US!

I agree that in Thailand many farangs behave the same way, but in the West it's very unusual to see drunks driving 'cos they know that if they're caught they face losing their licence at the very least!

Whilst I've seen lots of drunken behaviour at home, I saw it far less frequently!

[tim armstrong]

Having lived here for 8+ yrs [and survived 10 songkrans], I've come to the realization that [most] Thais have a totally unhealthy relationship with alcohol.

Most....

Drink til there is no more alcohol [or money to buy].

Drink til they drop or puke.

Keep topping off the drinks, so it's impossible to sip slowly [pace yourself].

They blame the drink [and not the drinker] for actions committed during a drinking session.

They drive while drunk [as we just witnessed this last deadly week].

They get loud and stupid, often showing off their drunkenness.

They are in total denial about the damage it does to families, innocent victims of accidents. They drink at any occasion, death, house warming, weddings, graduations, children's birthdays [setting a good example for the next generation].

Drinking and selling of alcohol at wats makes me wonder about the 'values' of Buddhism.

And if you don't join them in a drink, you are 'a stuck up falang'.

IMHO, [demon] alcohol is the single biggest enemy to Thai culture and the Thai family unit and They will be the last to admit it. do a google and see how many AA or equivalent organizations there are here.

And FYI, I am a drinker my self, but have learned decades ago, when to stop [or at least slow down] and I am not saying that I am better than they are, but just admitting that I don't like to drink 'Thai Style'

I don't think they are any worse than many farlang either her or in their own countries. But yes its bad. One curious point to consider- Many Asians, including Thais have a different response to alcohol, particularly anything with bubbles because their physiology is a little different to ours and they absorb alcohol faster into the bloodstream.

[eek]

Only once in over the year we have been together has my bf drank alcohol. He had one bottle of beer to celebrate something. That one bottle was enough to make his face beetroot, his eyes red and glazed, and cause him to sing. Quite drunk!

Neither of us drink alcohol, but some of our friends do. Never seen any of them drink to excess though, or drink drive.

I dont know about generalisations though. Thats only my personal experience.

[PhilHarries]

Keep topping off the drinks, so it's impossible to sip slowly [pace yourself].

Drinking and selling of alcohol at wats makes me wonder about the 'values' of Buddhism.

I find all the faults you listed to be attributable to certain sections of just about any society including our "devout" muslim friends once they get outside their prisons.

But I'll comment on the two above as they are particularly Asian and/or Thai.

The topping up of drinks bugs me as well as it is impossible to know exactly how much you have drunk and, because at each top up they insist on a toast, difficult to pace yourself. This is an Asian trait and here in Korea if you are drinking in a group it is not the done thing to top your own glass up. One way to soften the effect of this custom is to cram your glass with ice cubes. This greatly reduces the volume of beer in a "glassfull" and waters it down a bit into the bargain.

As for the drinking and selling of alcohol at wats this must be a fairly new thing. Prior to 2004 when I lived full time in Thailand I used to accompany the missus on her merit making missions but declined the sitting on the concrete floor for hours routine. So I'd wander outside and, as the weather was invariably hot, I'd get to the point where I could down an ice cold amber nectar. No alcohol available in the wat itself and a wander outside mostly revealed no sources of beer within an easy walk and then if there was one it would be a scruffy mom'n'pop store. Maybe the missus knew me too well and was careful in her choice of wats. In any case I certainly never saw a Thai person drinking (alcohol) at the wat itself.

And if you don't join them in a drink, you are 'a stuck up falang'.

I actually find it easier to not drink alcohol when I am with Thais than with farangs.

[h90]

You may wish to consider observing Thais of a different social position. A great many Thais limit their alcohol intake. I drink more than a few of my friends and I'm a wuss by western standards.

And there are a lot of Thais who don't drink alcohol at all.

[ernest1966]

Lets see

- In the UK theres nearly a pub on every street, sometimes two.

- Binge drinking occurs because hey, you have to drink before closing time.

- Most Off Licences don't give a dam_n selling alcohol to kids.- I'd rather be in a bar full of young (20s) thais than brits, because I know the thais are there just to have fun, whilst if you make accidental eye contact with a brit you get the old "what you f*ckin' lookin' at", here you just smile and they smile back.

- Know several brits who have died from liver poisoning.

- Our next doors neighbours kid (19) boasting he drinks 15 pints a night, what a man

- Being in a bar in the Uk and having to deal with the drunks on dole day.

- Working in hammersmith in the UK in my 20s, there was a group of about 20 drunks who hung around the shopping center drinking teneants super and begging for money.

- The alcoholic beggars on the underground.

- Teenage thug drinkers

- Ever worked in A&E on the weekends, most places have to have guards because of the alcoholics attacking the doctors and nursees

Ok, so there are some thais who drink a lot, maybe to much for their own good. But generally they're bored or just fed up, they maybe be a bit too loud, or think themselves funny, but the next day they say sorry. Back in the UK they'll just smash a bottle over your head for "a larf". I know who I'd rather drink with.

[Orac]

I am not sure how closely related the 'village culture' we have in our village is in comparison to the rest of thailand but there certainly is a big requirement to drink if the is an excuse. I was woken this morning by what sounded like gunshots and my wife explained it was becuase a man had died in the night a few doors down (apparently he was old and had been ill for some time so it was no surprise). All evening people have been heading down to his house and my wife tells me it is 'traditional' that everyone will drink and play cards and 'roulelle' all night and all day tomorrow now.

Having a new baby has given us the excuse to get out of going but so far 3 people have called round to see where we are.

[jaideeguy]

It is odd that most Thais either drink [too much] or not drink at all. Not too many moderate drinkers.....or moderate drivers, or moderation in many forms. Thais [Asians] don't seem to be moderate in many things. either fast or slow, good or bad, black or white etc.....

re: drinking in the wats......here in my moobaan wat, they have many fund raisers that serve beer, whiskey, mixers and even have cayote dancers [which I don't object to].

[F1fanatic]

- In the UK theres nearly a pub on every street, sometimes two. - Don't know where you live here, but there are far more bars where I live than pubs in the UK!

- Binge drinking occurs because hey, you have to drink before closing time. - Very true. Bars in Thailand also close.

- Most Off Licences don't give a dam_n selling alcohol to kids.- I'd rather be in a bar full of young (20s) thais than brits, because I know the thais are there just to have fun, whilst if you make accidental eye contact with a brit you get the old "what you f*ckin' lookin' at", here you just smile and they smile back. - Off licences are far more worried about who they sell alcohol to as there is no chance of them just paying a bribe!

- Know several brits who have died from liver poisoning. - You honestly believe that doesn't happen here??

- Our next doors neighbours kid (19) boasting he drinks 15 pints a night, what a man - Agree entirely, lots of kids in the West think it proves something if they exaggerate the amount they drink. They grow out of it.

- Being in a bar in the Uk and having to deal with the drunks on dole day. - You lived in a bad area.

- Working in hammersmith in the UK in my 20s, there was a group of about 20 drunks who hung around the shopping center drinking teneants super and begging for money. - You lived in a bad area. Yes it happens, but its normally restricted to town centres and at least they don't hop onto a motorbike when they're drunk!

- The alcoholic beggars on the underground. - As above, I prefer they're on the underground and not on a motorbike.

- Teenage thug drinkers - Depending on where you live, there's lots of those here.

- Ever worked in A&E on the weekends, most places have to have guards because of the alcoholics attacking the doctors and nursees - Agree. Appalling behaviour.

Ok, so there are some thais who drink a lot, maybe to much for their own good. But generally they're bored or just fed up, they maybe be a bit too loud, or think themselves funny, but the next day they say sorry. - Just like the UK. Back in the UK they'll just smash a bottle over your head for "a larf". I know who I'd rather drink with. - You lived in a bad area!!! I never, ever saw behaviour like that, although I heard (or read) about it 'cos it was so uncommon!

Edited April 17, 2009 by F1fanatic

[PhilHarries]

- In the UK theres nearly a pub on every street, sometimes two.

I don't know what town you are basing the above statistic on but it sure ain't any town I've ever been to. Even in it's hey day Farnham, Surrey (one of the heaviest pub and brewery populationed towns in the UK in it's day but that was 60 years ago minimum) was nowhere near that level.

Even with the boom in licensed premises during the 90's I don't know of any town that could boast that quantity of pubs/bars even if you only took the town center into account.

These days in the UK pubs are closing at a rate of around 5 per day. A lot of pubs would like to see enough customers to have an arguement let alone a brawl.

Much of the rest you say is also contestable, the points you make do apply but just not everywhere. Some large towns and cities are bad and some are not. Like all generalisations they have a thread of truth but that is all.

The big problem you don't raise is that of supermarkets selling booze way, way cheaper than pubs so that kids a three quarters p1ssed on cheap grog before they even get to the pub.

Sorry folks

The one thing I have noticed about Asians in general with respect to alcohol is there appears to be no scale of drunkeness. One minute you are all drinking and everything is rosy, next minute they are blooted. No halfway house, they are binary drunks, zero or one, sober or p1ssed. Then they follow the same varying traits of drunks worldwide from the sleepy through the puking to the violent.

[Spee]

IMHO, [demon] alcohol is the single biggest enemy to Thai culture and the Thai family unit and They will be the last to admit it.

Other than venting personal frustration with judgmentalism, I'm not sure what point it is that you are trying to make. The situation with alcohol abuse is what it is. No laws or individual actions are going to change it.

As others have suggested, alcohol abuse and its effect on families is not limited to Thailand. I quit going to pubs in the UK and bars in the US a long time ago to avoid obnoxious drunks, people looking to have a fight, etc. Boys, girls, doesn't matter. Drinking to excess is common in Asian cultures. In Japan for example, when out with friends or colleagues, having a drink that is less than full is the same as asking for another. Personally I found UK drunks to be some of the worst because getting into a barfight seems to be a rite of passage with many young UK males. But I don't think the US is any different, I'm just that many more years removed from the US bar scene.

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with having a few drinks as part of a quiet night at home. It's all a matter of where you want to be, surrounded by tee-totalers, or drunks, or other social drinkers. All can be easily avoided. None can be stopped.

[Supernova]

It is odd that most Thais either drink [too much] or not drink at all. Not too many moderate drinkers.....or moderate drivers, or moderation in many forms. Thais [Asians] don't seem to be moderate in many things. either fast or slow, good or bad, black or white etc.....

re: drinking in the wats......here in my moobaan wat, they have many fund raisers that serve beer, whiskey, mixers and even have cayote dancers [which I don't object to].

Thais wouldn't know what 'moderation' was even if it snuck up from behind at bit them on the @ss.

[JimmyTheMook]

It is a country of drunks and the power that be keep it that way with cheap beer , lao khao and a daily dose of brainwashing keeps them really easy to control

[Lickey]

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Police - pub pact calls time on troublemakers (Oldham)

Police and licensees are working together to make sure people have a safe and happy night out in Failsworth.

The area’s Pub Watch scheme has been running successfully for more than seven years. Over these years landlords and police have worked together to increase security and create a safer environment for the public.

CCTV and airport-style security arches that detect weapons are some of the security measures that have been put in place.

Inspector Dave Stopford of the Failsworth and Hollinwood Neighbourhood Policing Team said: “The Neighbourhood Policing team has many initiatives in place to tackle anti-social behaviour and provide reassurance to landlords and the public.”

“We have developed excellent relationships with all the Pub Watch members and want this to continue. We also want to ensure that all licensed premises in our neighbourhood provide a safe and welcoming environment for drinkers and encourage other landlords to join the scheme.

“By working together we can make Failsworth an even safer place to enjoy a night out.”

Chief Inspector Sarah Jones adds: “We have good relationships with the majority of licensees across the borough. The development of Pub Watch is an effective way of strengthening these relationships and developing two-way communication between police and landlords.”

Pub Watch is a nationwide initiative that aims to improve the flow of information between landlords and police to deter drinkers from engaging in alcohol-fuelled disorder and prevent known troublemakers from entering pubs.

Howard Brown, Chair of the Pub Watch, said: “Membership of a Pub Watch scheme greatly benefits licensees, drinkers, local residents and the police. I would encourage other landlords in the area to join the scheme and help make Failsworth a place where people can have a safe and enjoyable night out."

If you are interested in joining or setting up a Pub Watch scheme contact Peter Lee, Watch Scheme Administrator, on 0161 856 9054.

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Yes Mr PhilHarries, go enjoy a pint in the UK,

[PhilHarries]

Yes Mr PhilHarries, go enjoy a pint in the UK,

Not wishing to drag this thread off topic but whenever I do go back to the UK, last time was Feb/Mar this year, I go out to the pubs every night and usually stay until after eleven. Never witnessed any agrro either in the pubs nor outside in the streets. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it's nowhere near as bad as all you twitter screamers try to make out. The VAST majority of pubs and pub goers in the UK are normal, healthy, responsible people only out to enjoy a few drinks and a laugh with friends.

As I said in my post to which you were replying there are bad places and there are good places, we can all guess where your background lies.

Do NOT judge the world by the company you keep either in cyber space or in the real world (if you can find the real world).

Sorry folks, but it p1sses me off these forum members who seem to think their status is enhanced by slagging off their home country more than anyone else. Applying Lickey's logic we should assume ALL Thais are raging drunks, who rampage through the streets, shooting people and burning buses just to celebrate new year.

<edit : btw your claim to "a pub on every street" holds as much water as the rest of your rant>

Edited April 17, 2009 by PhilHarries

[BigSnake]

True what you said here but it is NOT unique to Thailand, I have seen the same thing in other Asian countries, not to mention our friends in Moscow. It goes without saying that it cost the Thai Government Billion of baht in health relate issues.

[G54]

Too many Thai men with Cirrhosis of the liver too. Men in their early 30's upwards and that is a great shame. A great pity there seems too little education on the problems of drinking to excess.

The downing of full glasses seems to be the norm too often in many clubs I have been in. A chink of glasses and then it's bottoms up.

I've not seen it so much in restaurants though.

[mdechgan]

I used to have a mentality, mindset, about drinking like you. But one has to understand that many of these people need an escape or outlet from their realities. Most lack the will their difficulties and just accept their lives. Sometimes very low pay, zero opportunity and no hope of moving up the ladder.

On the other end of the scale some are so rich that they have so much free time they start to drink at 10:00am

Its a shame how most people don't know how to regulate their drinking.

[loong]

I used to have a mentality, mindset, about drinking like you. But one has to understand that many of these people need an escape or outlet from their realities. Most lack the will their difficulties and just accept their lives. Sometimes very low pay, zero opportunity and no hope of moving up the ladder.

That's no reason or excuse, many have zero opportunity and no hope of moving up the ladder Because they are alcoholics.

I don't know why so many people have to compare this to drinking habits in the Uk. Having lived in 2 villages in Isaan and one in the North, I can tell you that there is absolutely no comparison. I find it difficult to imagine that there could be somewhere else in the world with a higher proportion of habitual drunks.

In Uk, first thing in the morning most Brits want a cup of tea or coffee, here for many, it's a shot of Thai whiskey, followed by another and another etc.

I would estimate that 20% of the village population are permanently drunk, or will get drunk nearly every evening after work. Often after pay day, they spend the next day drinking instead of going to work.

Many Thais that I know do not drink at all.

My girlfriend does not and never has used alcohol. She tells me it's because her Mother was a drunk and her childhood was not so great and alcohol killed her Mother.

Although her experience as a child has put her off alcohol for life, it seems to have had the opposite effect on her sister. She drinks at every opportunity and cannot stop until she has collapsed often causing havoc first. She's been in hospital twice in the last year and has been told by the doctors "Stop drinking or die", but that advice has fallen on death ears. Her 9 year old son is nearly a basket case from witnessing his Mother's out of control madness. Luckily, her husband never touches a drop, so there is at least some stability in the boy's life.

My girlfriend's brother was a violent drunk and would always be getting into fights. He would often drink instead of going to work. His wife left him and took his daughter. He went into a temple and became a monk, making some effort to turn his life around. He left the temple last year, but old habits die hard and he got drunk and in a fight. He's back in the temple now. I don't think that his ex wife was much better, certainly not capable of looking after a child and his daughter lives with us now.

My girlfriends Father is basically a very good, hardworking kind and generous man. Most nights after work and on his days off he's drunk. We're concerned because he has just retired and with no work he may end up as a permanent drunk.

There are very few that are able to drink socially, these people and the ones who don't drink at all are the ones that seem to make a reasonable success of their lives.

According to the World Health Organisation 2002 statistics, You are 9 times more likely to die from violence in Thailand than in the Uk and twice as likely than in US. You are 5 times as likely to die in a road traffic accident than in the Uk, twice as likely than in US. How much of this is related to alcohol abuse, I don't know.

Strangely enough you are slightly less likely to die from cirrhosis of the liver in Thailand than Uk or US.

[jaideeguy]

Interesting, 'Loong'......I too see drinking on a daily basis here in my moobaan in Chiang Mai there are whiskey shops that open early morning and some never close, as long as there are customers. Not an uncommon sight to see people passed out on the road.

My rant was simply a rant and I tried not to be judgemental, just my observations and experiences.

And as you say, you can't compare drinking habits/statistics of the west with Asia......

One problem that I have is the Peer pressure to join them from my local friends that I enjoy when they are sober, but get bored, disgusted with after they have had a few drinks. I really don't like the [effects and taste of] cheap local swill....not to be stuck up, but i prefer a couple of glasses of wine with dinner and as far as drinking during the day......been there-done that and don't like the feel of it. But they take it as an insult if i pass, so i will drink a friendly glass with a 'chokdee' then be on my way

[Geekfreaklover]

Interesting, 'Loong'......I too see drinking on a daily basis here in my moobaan in Chiang Mai there are whiskey shops that open early morning and some never close, as long as there are customers. Not an uncommon sight to see people passed out on the road.

My rant was simply a rant and I tried not to be judgemental, just my observations and experiences.

And as you say, you can't compare drinking habits/statistics of the west with Asia......

One problem that I have is the Peer pressure to join them from my local friends that I enjoy when they are sober, but get bored, disgusted with after they have had a few drinks. I really don't like the [effects and taste of] cheap local swill....not to be stuck up, but i prefer a couple of glasses of wine with dinner and as far as drinking during the day......been there-done that and don't like the feel of it. But they take it as an insult if i pass, so i will drink a friendly glass with a 'chokdee' then be on my way

Perhaps they are not insulted, they just want somebody 'farang' to pay for the next bottle, or five.

[jaideeguy]

Most probably true and i will rarely buy them a drink, as an escape......

[loong]

Interesting, 'Loong'......I too see drinking on a daily basis here in my moobaan in Chiang Mai there are whiskey shops that open early morning and some never close, as long as there are customers. Not an uncommon sight to see people passed out on the road.

My rant was simply a rant and I tried not to be judgemental, just my observations and experiences.

And as you say, you can't compare drinking habits/statistics of the west with Asia......

One problem that I have is the Peer pressure to join them from my local friends that I enjoy when they are sober, but get bored, disgusted with after they have had a few drinks. I really don't like the [effects and taste of] cheap local swill....not to be stuck up, but i prefer a couple of glasses of wine with dinner and as far as drinking during the day......been there-done that and don't like the feel of it. But they take it as an insult if i pass, so i will drink a friendly glass with a 'chokdee' then be on my way

Perhaps they are not insulted, they just want somebody 'farang' to pay for the next bottle, or five.

GFL.. yes, that's often the case, but not always.

One of my first experience with village Thais, being "invited" to drink with them - bottle finished, waved under my nose and "Wi-sa-gee mawt laew"

JDG.. I've lived this village 2 years and up to 3 days ago had never bought a drink for anyone here and I never accept an offer to drink Lao Kow, I just tell them politely that I do not drink during the day and that my stomach is not the same as the Thai stomach and it will make me ill.

I went to the village shop once and bought some beer, a woman sitting there told me that she'd like to drink some beer. I told her (with a smile) that if she gave the shoplady 40 Baht, she will give her some beer. That drew a laugh from the others.

I've also had people come to the house and ask for beer, I've just told them if I give one person, then everybody in the village will come and ask for beer. This has been accepted as they know it's true.

They've given up now as they know I'm not a soft touch Farang.

3 days ago was the Songkran party here and Kow Kai or whatever it is. Pouring water over the hands of the elders and paying respect. I lightened my wallet and emptied the shop of beer and soft drinks (my idea, no prompting from anyone) and everyone had a good time. It actually surprised me how different the people are when drunk on beer compared to Lao Kow, much more mellow. No arguments, no fighting, just everybody happy.

I did wonder if maybe I'd made a rod for my back with my unexpected show of generosity, but the villagers haven't bugged me, I think they realise that it was a Songkran one-off. Only thing I had was the the couple who come to the village to buy bottles and plastic heard about the night before and the women started jabbering at me about buying beer, getting excited at the thought of freebies. I just told her that I had a headache and wasn't drinking that day, then my girlfriend made it clear to her that it was a one time thing and that it wouldn't be repeated.