Last Month's Rent And Rental Deposits

[st11x]

G'day,

We are moving out of a property and would like to seek your opinions.

We paid 2 months' deposit at the start and at the time of signing, the landlord told us to give her a month's notice and that we will not have to pay the last month's rent. Stupidly we didn't read the contract carefully enough and it mentioned no part of the deposit is to be used as rental payment.

So we tried to ring her but she would not answer the call, citing all sorts of excuses. She is now using her husband as a shield, absolving herself from all responsibilities.

Going by the past few months she has handled our rental, there is no chance she is going to return us the deposit. So we are planning not to pay them the last month and lose that 1 month at the worse case, cutting our losses.

What can the landlord do in this case? Can they forcefully evict us? Have you done anything like this in the past?

Thanks

Matt

[FarangCravings]

G'day,

We are moving out of a property and would like to seek your opinions.

We paid 2 months' deposit at the start and at the time of signing, the landlord told us to give her a month's notice and that we will not have to pay the last month's rent. Stupidly we didn't read the contract carefully enough and it mentioned no part of the deposit is to be used as rental payment.

So we tried to ring her but she would not answer the call, citing all sorts of excuses. She is now using her husband as a shield, absolving herself from all responsibilities.

Going by the past few months she has handled our rental, there is no chance she is going to return us the deposit. So we are planning not to pay them the last month and lose that 1 month at the worse case, cutting our losses.

What can the landlord do in this case? Can they forcefully evict us? Have you done anything like this in the past?

Thanks

Matt

Did you give them the months notice if you did and there is no damage to the house they have to give you your deposit back at this time you do not know if she is going to refuse you only think based on her actions I would be candid with them and advise should there be a problem refunding your deposit you will go to the Tourist Police.

Edited April 20, 2009 by FarangCravings

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Easy enough, just don't pay the final two months.

Anything that doesn't involved the landlord having to pay money BACK is also more palatable to the landlord usually.

Obviously you need to make sure that any additional costs (electricity, phone, etc) are covered.

[threedot]

I think it would be hard for them to evict you but TIT. If the amount is substantial then why not seek local legal advice?

I had a similar situation with a thai landlord creating all sorts of ridiculous and unfair charges, predicting problems with the return of the deposit I withheld the rent. I did not get evicted but ymmv.

[st11x]

After we rented the place, our neighbors told us what a crook our landlord is (too late but good to know anyway) - she was the president of the community's committee and she swindled the community fees from people around the block. So it's going to be hard to get back our money we reckon.

We have only 1 month left to go, so we can forgo 1 month's deposit and not pay the last month's rent. Thing is we worry about them calling the police to evict us or something like that.

Another thing we were considering is to hire a lawyer and have the lawyer give them the final rent personally, and let them know he/she will come back to get the deposit at the end. We want them to know that not all people are afraid of them, and they cannot take advantage of anybody always.

Matt

[BlackArtemis]

Some things to consider:

How well connected are they, fp they have police friends to help bully. They might use them and have them back up a claim that you broke X amount of things, and then you are paying 2 months rent and a kitchen remodeling...

A lawyer will most likely cost you more int he long run.

An Idea that I would kick around is that to have them check out the place before you pay the last months rent, so to say. Once they check it out, havem sign the contract that it is good condition, say you will transfer $ as usual and just don't.

The thing is this, you didn't read the contract closely enough and you are playing with someone who you know is tricky. I don't blame you at all, but I don't want you to lose more $ than needed.

I hope you get through it fine :cheers:

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Matt,

I'll join in with BlackArtemis in cautioning you in this situation.

You are not "back home" where "the rule of law" (perhaps) applies. You are a vulnerable outsider.

What on earth makes you think the Tourist P. would help you, or any other P. in this country ?

Are you aware of the Thai expression re lawyers : "dee qua gin kee maa bai jer tinai khwam" ? Ask someone to translate that for you.

imho a Farang "taking a stand" here gets you broken, not just "sat down." My prediction (sorry) is that one or two days after the owner is aware you are withholding the rent, things will start to happen that will not be good things for you.

I wish you the best, and wish I didn't think the way I do, sometimes, but I have seen what I have seen.

~o:37;

[tigerbalm]

it would be Interesting to know how much the two months rent she is holding comes to.?

Could you not like you said just not pay the last months rent and not pay any of the utility bills that should take care of some of the other months rent she is holding , just move out and don't tell her.

After all the deposit is usually held for any damages that you might have made to the property and any out standing bills that may have to be paid if not paid by the renter.

sure she could say this and that was damaged ..so what if she does if she has not the cash to give your deposit back she is hardly going to get a lawyer is she..

The other alternative is just to bite the bullit and put it down to experience

Or the third alternative is to get a lawyer and risk getting ripped off by him plenty of lawyers around that are just as shady and unscrupulous as some of the shady landlords

It will be interesting to know your final course of action.

oh and good luck to you and hope all goes well

[likite]

I'm in similar situation. I don't think we shall get the 2 months rent deposit back either. Last house we rented the landlord was a gem and I never doubted we would have a problem. It was he who told me not to pay the last months rent and he refunded the deposit no problem. Not so the house previous. I went to the Police but they were not interested as they saw it as a civil matter. They did actually ring the landlady but it made no difference, she kept 2 months deposit.

In this present house I shall not pay the last 2 months rent and take some dated photos of the place to show good condition. The chances of any nasty repercussions are remote at best. But I'll see how it goes, I'm not going worry to much about it.

[getgoin]

Most of the time landlords do not expect to give back any cash. In the first place they have already spent it. They want you to trash the place or break the lease so they can rationalize keeping the whole deposit.

Do not under any circumstances give them any more money nor pay any utility bills until your whole deposit has been used up. If there is some left, you can ask for it back, but do not pay the utility bills and expect them to give you back a month's deposit. It will not happen.

Renter's rights are almost non existent except for one thing, it is very hard for them to evict you. The police will not do anything, you will not need a lawyer. Stay until your money runs out and then leave the place in good condition. Everyone will be satisfied.

[st11x]

Thanks for all your suggestions.

They hold us 25K THB in deposits.

likite, how do you manage to stay at the place for 2 months without paying the rent? Don't the landlord come after you?

Our contract says if we miss a payment/late, etc, they can get us to vacate the property immediately. Not sure how/if they are going to enforce that, but so far, they have been very "strict" about us paying the rent. On the same day every month, she will either ring us or text me in the morning to remind me to pay the rent and let her know immediately!

We inquired about getting a lawyer to come do part 1, that is, to be present when we hand over the final payment. The lawyer will write a new contract to list a number of things like when they will have to pay us back the deposit etc. The price is about 3K per hour or something.

Matt

[BlackArtemis]

3k per hour might turn out to be 9k and then she can offer him 5k of the deposit to lose and you can now out 34k Baht and they can get you out and get a new tenant.

Actually talking to the tourist police might help. But the thing is this. The way the contract is set up, you have to wait until the two months is up to talk to them, and then she might pull the "o this is broken" BS.

[getgoin]

Do not give them any more money.

[BlackArtemis]

Do not give them any more money.

Great idea, break the contract that he signed so that she now has the law on her side. I am sure the Thai police will be fair and just with him.

On a side note, does she have copies of your passport etc?

[Bill97]

Follow the contract you signed, write it off if you loose your deposit and move on.

Unless of course you want to join the ranks of those who are irresponsible, dishonest and dragging down the quality of life for others.

Whatever you think your landlord may be, you made mistakes and is not time to make more unless you want more and very possibly much larger problems.

[tigerbalm]

Do not give them any more money.

Great idea, break the contract that he signed so that she now has the law on her side. I am sure the Thai police will be fair and just with him.

On a side note, does she have copies of your passport etc?

like the poster before said it is a civil matter and the police would need a court order to throw any one out.

As far as she has the law on her side, that is ok but like i said before if she has not the money to give the guy his deposit back what chance has she got of funding a lawyer.. none i would imagine.. what possible gain would she get from a lawyer shes not owed any more money and it would only cost her money For what?...no like the other poster said don't give here a bean more.

Edited April 21, 2009 by tigerbalm

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Do not give them any more money.

Exactly. Already said it in my first post. Do document what you're doing, give them notice and that will be it.

[st11x]

I tried calling her today using a VOIP phone so number will be registered and surprise, she picked up. Still refuses to talk and ask for me to speak to the husband but didn't get me the number. Before she could do it, she hung up! I rang back and she is no longer answering.

She did have photocopies of my wife's Thai card and my passport.

[yumidesign]

3k per hour might turn out to be 9k and then she can offer him 5k of the deposit to lose and you can now out 34k Baht and they can get you out and get a new tenant.

Actually talking to the tourist police might help. But the thing is this. The way the contract is set up, you have to wait until the two months is up to talk to them, and then she might pull the "o this is broken" BS.

i can assure you that involving the tourist police in any way will lead to a great deal of trouble, they are just the english speaking spies for the Thai police force, including the immigration police, and if as you say, the landlord has connections you could end up in deep shirt

Pay the rent on the due date, give the required notice, be nice, smile a lot and take your chances at getting some or all of the 25k back, and make a rule not to rent from Thai owners in the future, or at least ones that you do not know

In a lease contract i have with tenants i have 45 days to pay the deposit back to them.

You are in Thailand!

Edited April 21, 2009 by yumidesign

[BlackArtemis]

3k per hour might turn out to be 9k and then she can offer him 5k of the deposit to lose and you can now out 34k Baht and they can get you out and get a new tenant.

Actually talking to the tourist police might help. But the thing is this. The way the contract is set up, you have to wait until the two months is up to talk to them, and then she might pull the "o this is broken" BS.

i can assure you that involving the tourist police in any way will lead to a great deal of trouble, they are just the english speaking spies for the Thai police force, including the immigration police, and if as you say, the landlord has connections you could end up in deep shirt

Pay the rent on the due date, give the required notice, be nice, smile a lot and take your chances at getting some or all of the 25k back, and make a rule not to rent from Thai owners in the future, or at least ones that you do not know

In a lease contract i have with tenants i have 45 days to pay the deposit back to them.

You are in Thailand!

Being that I am personal friends with some of the high ranking TPD I have a different view of them, so I have never dealt with them on normal terms. I will take your word for it.

[chiangmaibruce]

More relevant background info can be found here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Rental-Depos...nd-t222857.html

[hagler]

Whilst I can understand your disillusionment about the situation I would have throught that this has happened to enough people on innumerable times over the years for folks to have realised that the chances of getting your bond back is zilch in 90%of occasions and so factor that into your initial negotiations.

Rental asked = 10 000pm = 120000 PA + 2 months bond = 140 000

Rental counteroffer = 8333pm = 100000 PA + 2months Bond = 120000

And if you cant get a discount then dont think you are paying 10000 Pm but just take it that you are paying 14000 per month.

Either way if you get any or part of your bond back then it is bonus.

[IanForbes]

The only thing I would suggest differently than others is to NOT pay the final month, and when they come to collect then make THEM place the deposit in a separate bank account where BOTH of you have to sign to get it back. That way you are both covered.

[likite]

If you don't pay the last 2 moths rent, as some one said what is she going to do? Most contracts state if you break the contract the landlord can keep the deposit and that is what she will do.

Leave the house as you found it, she has not lost anything and you have not lost anything.

A previous poster said the Thai landlords never intend to repay the deposit in the majority of cases thats simply because they spend it. Do you think the landlord will worry that you know their name and address and you probably have their id number and you have the means to follow up none payment with a lawyer or even with the police, again the answer is 90% no.

So on balance look after yourself try not to be at financial disadvantage, as I said she keeps the deposit and you don't lose either so what more legally can be done? IMHO very very little.

st11x do what you are most comfortable with in your situation.

[el jefe]

In a lease contract i have with tenants i have 45 days to pay the deposit back to them.

I'd rather rent from a Thai landlord!

Although I've read of stories of tenants not getting their deposit back (and this thread sounds like it will probably be another), I've never had a problem, nor has anyone I know personally.

[tigerbalm]

If you don't pay the last 2 moths rent, as some one said what is she going to do? Most contracts state if you break the contract the landlord can keep the deposit and that is what she will do. [Mmmm surely if she is refusing to give back the two months rent for no apparent reason, then not paying the last two months rent would be an option, not necessarily the right one but an option all the same]

Leave the house as you found it, she has not lost anything and you have not lost anything.[only the two months rent she is holding]

A previous poster said the Thai landlords never intend to repay the deposit in the majority of cases thats simply because they spend it. Do you think the landlord will worry that you know their name and address and you probably have their id number and you have the means to follow up none payment with a lawyer or even with the police, again the answer is 90% no.

So on balance look after yourself try not to be at financial disadvantage, as I said she keeps the deposit and you don't lose either so what more legally can be done? IMHO very very little.[Again looses his two months deposit for what?]

st11x do what you are most comfortable with in your situation.[You mean loose his deposit]

[chiang mai]

Far better to understand at the outset that deposits are often not returned at the end of the lease and to negotiate a monthly rent at the start that factors in that money.

[Kitsch22]

If you don't pay the last 2 moths rent, as some one said what is she going to do? Most contracts state if you break the contract the landlord can keep the deposit and that is what she will do. [Mmmm surely if she is refusing to give back the two months rent for no apparent reason, then not paying the last two months rent would be an option, not necessarily the right one but an option all the same]

Leave the house as you found it, she has not lost anything and you have not lost anything.[only the two months rent she is holding]

A previous poster said the Thai landlords never intend to repay the deposit in the majority of cases thats simply because they spend it. Do you think the landlord will worry that you know their name and address and you probably have their id number and you have the means to follow up none payment with a lawyer or even with the police, again the answer is 90% no.

So on balance look after yourself try not to be at financial disadvantage, as I said she keeps the deposit and you don't lose either so what more legally can be done? IMHO very very little.[Again looses his two months deposit for what?]

st11x do what you are most comfortable with in your situation.[You mean loose his deposit]

So are you recommending that the OP honours his contract or that he breaks it?

The OP has honestly acknowledged that he failed to read/understand the rental agreement before he signed it and now most of the farangs here seem to be recommending that he acts in breach of his contract because of an unproven assumption that the Thai landlord will break her contract.

Would it not be appropriate to transfer this discussion to one of the "Why the Thais Do Not Want Us In Their Country" threads?

[likite]

If you don't pay the last 2 moths rent, as some one said what is she going to do? Most contracts state if you break the contract the landlord can keep the deposit and that is what she will do. [Mmmm surely if she is refusing to give back the two months rent for no apparent reason, then not paying the last two months rent would be an option, not necessarily the right one but an option all the same]

Leave the house as you found it, she has not lost anything and you have not lost anything.[only the two months rent she is holding]

A previous poster said the Thai landlords never intend to repay the deposit in the majority of cases thats simply because they spend it. Do you think the landlord will worry that you know their name and address and you probably have their id number and you have the means to follow up none payment with a lawyer or even with the police, again the answer is 90% no.

So on balance look after yourself try not to be at financial disadvantage, as I said she keeps the deposit and you don't lose either so what more legally can be done? IMHO very very little.[Again looses his two months deposit for what?]

st11x do what you are most comfortable with in your situation.[You mean loose his deposit]

So are you recommending that the OP honours his contract or that he breaks it? From my last sentence I would have thought that was fairly obvious. 'st11x do what you are most comfortable with in your situation'.

The OP has honestly acknowledged that he failed to read/understand the rental agreement before he signed it and now most of the farangs here seem to be recommending that he acts in breach of his contract because of an unproven assumption that the Thai landlord will break her contract. Yes your point being?

Would it not be appropriate to transfer this discussion to one of the "Why the Thais Do Not Want Us In Their Country" threads? Don't see the need to transfer this anywhere. Perhaps you can enlighten us further.

[Bill97]

Would it not be appropriate to transfer this discussion to one of the "Why the Thais Do Not Want Us In Their Country" threads?

It is not just a lot of Thais who do not like people who break contracts or advocate doing so.