Motorcycles Purchased Second Hand From Dealer

[mrsocks1111]

If you buy a bike from a dealer and you never receive the book who owns the bike, form what i read lots of people are infected by this.

Edited April 27, 2009 by PeaceBlondie
moved explained

[thaicbr]

Well if you have an purchase invoice and you had the correct paperwork to transfer the book (or get a new one).

WHY would you not receive it?

Unless its a big bike that has no book, you should get the new or transferred book within 6 weeks (most of the time far quicker).

The book is probably waiting for you at the dealer, if you paid on finance then the book will be with the finance company until the paid vehicle is for. but you should get a copy of all the paperwork.

Hope this helps. Allan

[mrsocks1111]

Well if you have an purchase invoice and you had the correct paperwork to transfer the book (or get a new one).

WHY would you not receive it?

Unless its a big bike that has no book, you should get the new or transferred book within 6 weeks (most of the time far quicker).

The book is probably waiting for you at the dealer, if you paid on finance then the book will be with the finance company until the paid vehicle is for. but you should get a copy of all the paperwork.

Hope this helps. Allan

Allan,

I am refering to big bikes people have purchased from doddgy dealers, IE selling the bike for a customer but never passing on the money so no book forth coming, if you have a invoice but no book who owns the bike?

[dbrenn]

Well if you have an purchase invoice and you had the correct paperwork to transfer the book (or get a new one).

WHY would you not receive it?

Unless its a big bike that has no book, you should get the new or transferred book within 6 weeks (most of the time far quicker).

The book is probably waiting for you at the dealer, if you paid on finance then the book will be with the finance company until the paid vehicle is for. but you should get a copy of all the paperwork.

Hope this helps. Allan

Allan,

I am refering to big bikes people have purchased from doddgy dealers, IE selling the bike for a customer but never passing on the money so no book forth coming, if you have a invoice but no book who owns the bike?

Both big bikes I bought in Thailand came with the registration document 'book' and were transfered into my name as soon as I had paid the money. I have no idea why anyone would accept a vehicle with no registration document. It's not your bike without the book, and you could get busted for handling stolen goods if the bike is a stolen one.

The exception being if the bike is financed, in which case the bike is usually transferred to the neme of the finance company, which holds the book until the loan is paid off.

[mrsocks1111]

Well if you have an purchase invoice and you had the correct paperwork to transfer the book (or get a new one).

WHY would you not receive it?

Unless its a big bike that has no book, you should get the new or transferred book within 6 weeks (most of the time far quicker).

The book is probably waiting for you at the dealer, if you paid on finance then the book will be with the finance company until the paid vehicle is for. but you should get a copy of all the paperwork.

Hope this helps. Allan

Allan,

I am refering to big bikes people have purchased from doddgy dealers, IE selling the bike for a customer but never passing on the money so no book forth coming, if you have a invoice but no book who owns the bike?

Both big bikes I bought in Thailand came with the registration document 'book' and were transfered into my name as soon as I had paid the money. I have no idea why anyone would accept a vehicle with no registration document. It's not your bike without the book, and you could get busted for handling stolen goods if the bike is a stolen one.

The exception being if the bike is financed, in which case the bike is usually transferred to the neme of the finance company, which holds the book until the loan is paid off.

I have heard from 2 guys who purchased big bikes from a dealer who was selling for friends, the book would be transfered in a few weeks,however from what i understand the money was never passed on so the books are still with the orignal owners, They have invoices from the dealer who has since shut down, will not mention the dealers name, So who now owns the bikes? will the orignal owners go after the dealer, or try and find there bikes?

[dbrenn]

I have heard from 2 guys who purchased big bikes from a dealer who was selling for friends, the book would be transfered in a few weeks,however from what i understand the money was never passed on so the books are still with the orignal owners, They have invoices from the dealer who has since shut down, will not mention the dealers name, So who now owns the bikes? will the orignal owners go after the dealer, or try and find there bikes?

Sounds like a dodgy dealer. How do we know that he was really selling for 'friends' and that the bikes were not stolen? Why couldn't his 'friends' have left a signed transfer form and the books with the dealer? Why the delay in getting hold of the books once the bikes were sold? If the dealer has gone bust and disappeared, the legal owner of the bikes are the people whose names appear on the registration document, until they sign the bikes over. Until this is cleared up, the owners could report their bikes as stolen for all your friends know.

I suggest asking the cops to look up the owners based on the registration number of the bikes and taking the matter up with the registered owners directly, truthfully explaining all the circumstances. Not to do so could mean that your friends are unwittingly handling stolen goods and they could get into serious trouble for it.

I know a lot of people who bought big bikes from various dealers, and they all came with the book.

Edited April 26, 2009 by dbrenn

[Netfan]

What type of receipt did your friends get? If their bill doesnt have the registration (frame / engine) numbers of the motorcycle and the name of the person in who's name its in- with a signed copy oft their ID cards, then it's pretty simple - your friends are screwed. Same as they would be anywhere if they paid cash for a motorcycle (or car or yacht or airplane or rowboat or anything with a registration number), then someone with the ownership papers showed up. Who do you think owns it?

BTW- shouldn't this be in "bikes in thailand" - you'll get more feedback- not that you will want to get it

Edited April 26, 2009 by Netfan

[JetsetBkk]

I am refering to big bikes people have purchased from doddgy dealers...

Sounds like a dodgy dealer...

Quite.

"Som nam naa" springs to mind.

[Keith12]

I believe if you bought the bike from a recognized dealer, and possess a receipt, that the seller is the one with a problem, and it is up to him to get his money from the dealer who was acting as his agent. Your problem will be getting a book, for a bike you bought in good faith, as the person who has not been paid, will not release the book. The dealer would have been responsible for name change, tax and insurance, so you would have had to wait for your book. A good lesson for all would be to check out the book before paying. I believe this well known dealer has now left the country, and many problems behind him, so good luck.

[madjbs]

The dealer can only act as an agent if the real owner has signed a power of attorney document.

[mrsocks1111]

The dealer can only act as an agent if the real owner has signed a power of attorney document.

Just check with 1 of my mates, the invoice has reg / chasis number, also the insurance is in his name.

[Keith12]

Is it a friend or yourself that has had this experience.

[mrsocks1111]

Is it a friend or yourself that has had this experience.

A nouvo is to big for me, my friend, from what i am told this has happened to a lot of guys.

[mrsocks1111]

Is it a friend or yourself that has had this experience.

A nouvo is to big for me, my friend, from what i am told this has happened to a lot of guys.

how can i move this to bike fourm?

[chavy]

Is it a friend or yourself that has had this experience.

A nouvo is to big for me, my friend, from what i am told this has happened to a lot of guys.

how can i move this to bike fourm?

you can't......pm a mod to do it for you

[PeaceBlondie]

noved, explained

[BigBikeBKK]

Today's Idiom = "A Fool And His Money Are Easily Parted"

[LivinLOS]

I believe if you bought the bike from a recognized dealer, and possess a receipt, that the seller is the one with a problem, and it is up to him to get his money from the dealer who was acting as his agent. Your problem will be getting a book, for a bike you bought in good faith, as the person who has not been paid, will not release the book. The dealer would have been responsible for name change, tax and insurance, so you would have had to wait for your book. A good lesson for all would be to check out the book before paying. I believe this well known dealer has now left the country, and many problems behind him, so good luck.

Not really true..

If the seller has not passed the bike over to the agent legally.. Then the seller simply says the agent has stolen it and you have a stolen bike which will be returned to the owner, receipt or not. Imagine if you put your bike in for a service and the agent sold a customers bike, do you really think the buyer is in the clear ??

Thailand looks at the book owner as being the owner.. Invoices will fall under contract law and you can pursue the seller (agent) in small claims court.. For years..

I never pay in full until the bike is in my name.. Too many issues with books, even legit ones, down here.

[mrsocks1111]

I believe if you bought the bike from a recognized dealer, and possess a receipt, that the seller is the one with a problem, and it is up to him to get his money from the dealer who was acting as his agent. Your problem will be getting a book, for a bike you bought in good faith, as the person who has not been paid, will not release the book. The dealer would have been responsible for name change, tax and insurance, so you would have had to wait for your book. A good lesson for all would be to check out the book before paying. I believe this well known dealer has now left the country, and many problems behind him, so good luck.

Not really true..

If the seller has not passed the bike over to the agent legally.. Then the seller simply says the agent has stolen it and you have a stolen bike which will be returned to the owner, receipt or not. Imagine if you put your bike in for a service and the agent sold a customers bike, do you really think the buyer is in the clear ??

Thailand looks at the book owner as being the owner.. Invoices will fall under contract law and you can pursue the seller (agent) in small claims court.. For years..

I never pay in full until the bike is in my name.. Too many issues with books, even legit ones, down here.

The seller must have given the dealer authority after all my friend has a copy of the book and the bike is insured in his name.

[LivinLOS]

"Must have" would be provable how ??

If you can provide the signed authorization of transfer document and the signed power of attorney document then I suspect the case gets stronger.. Without those its pure guesswork and hope IMO. However if he had those items the book would probably be in his name already.

Having a copy means nothing.. As does having insurance (which you dont need to be the owner to get)..

Basically it sounds like 'your friend' is riding stolen property... His argument is with the agent not the owner of the bike.

[LivinLOS]

And let me guess.. A certain Patts area dealer ??

[mrsocks1111]

And let me guess.. A certain Patts area dealer ??

Update, he went to 2 solicitors today for there advise, yes he has invoice and tax disc which was renewed when he bought the bike Vaild to September,this means, as he has being told ,the seller gave the dealer permission to sell bike, the dealer has the power other wise he cant tax the bike, IE owners passport and ID details.

Will keep this updated, The fact he has proper invoice means he did nothing illegal,

Can i hear form others who are in same position, he is not the only guy who was scammed by this company,this shop was full of expencive bikes which did not belong to the dealer.

I personially belive he has , invoice, copy of book,tax which was back dated he did nothing incorrect and the orignal owner must go after the dealer.

[soundman]

Please keep any "naming" of "a certain dealer in Pattaya" confined to the PM (private message) system.

Thanx.

[LivinLOS]

And let me guess.. A certain Patts area dealer ??

Update, he went to 2 solicitors today for there advise, yes he has invoice and tax disc which was renewed when he bought the bike Vaild to September,this means, as he has being told ,the seller gave the dealer permission to sell bike, the dealer has the power other wise he cant tax the bike, IE owners passport and ID details.

Well thats not true for a start !!

Taxing the book here just requires green book.. Not the ID or any sale docs... and indictes no proof of ownership.. I can go pay the tax on my brothers bike while hes out of the country.. My missus can pay the tax on my bike.. None of which indicates ownership in any way.

I sympathize with 'your mate' but also think hes stupid to be paying over money without having his name in the book.. Big bike 101 no matter who your dealing with, too many bent and unbooked bikes out there to risk promises ever. I sympathize more for the seller tho, he put his bike up for sale, and its basically been stolen and hes not been paid. I cant for the life of me see how a 3rd party writing out a unofficial receipt can be legally binding on him.. Otherwise ringing a bike is as simple as nicking it and writing yourself a fake receipt !!

Its in someone elses name, that someone hasnt been paid, hasnt given over authority to transfer ownership (power of attorney and tx forms) and holds the book. Thats open and shut legally, the buyer has a dispute with the agent not the owner. All the owner would have to do is go to the police and file it as stolen. Purchasing a stolen bike no matter what invoice is given does not make the bike yours. Even if purchased in good faith (happened to mate of mine in UK actually.. Bought a nicked car with a bent V5 and they came and took the car back). Until the seller is paid and hands over the legal transfer docs its his bike.

[mrsocks1111]

And let me guess.. A certain Patts area dealer ??

Update, he went to 2 solicitors today for there advise, yes he has invoice and tax disc which was renewed when he bought the bike Vaild to September,this means, as he has being told ,the seller gave the dealer permission to sell bike, the dealer has the power other wise he cant tax the bike, IE owners passport and ID details.

Well thats not true for a start !!

Taxing the book here just requires green book.. Not the ID or any sale docs... and indictes no proof of ownership.. I can go pay the tax on my brothers bike while hes out of the country.. My missus can pay the tax on my bike.. None of which indicates ownership in any way.

I sympathize with 'your mate' but also think hes stupid to be paying over money without having his name in the book.. Big bike 101 no matter who your dealing with, too many bent and unbooked bikes out there to risk promises ever. I sympathize more for the seller tho, he put his bike up for sale, and its basically been stolen and hes not been paid. I cant for the life of me see how a 3rd party writing out a unofficial receipt can be legally binding on him.. Otherwise ringing a bike is as simple as nicking it and writing yourself a fake receipt !!

Its in someone elses name, that someone hasnt been paid, hasnt given over authority to transfer ownership (power of attorney and tx forms) and holds the book. Thats open and shut legally, the buyer has a dispute with the agent not the owner. All the owner would have to do is go to the police and file it as stolen. Purchasing a stolen bike no matter what invoice is given does not make the bike yours. Even if purchased in good faith (happened to mate of mine in UK actually.. Bought a nicked car with a bent V5 and they came and took the car back). Until the seller is paid and hands over the legal transfer docs its his bike.

Thanks,

So the dealer must have the green book if he was able to tax the bike?

[BSJ]

mrsocks1111: I have heard from 2 guys who purchased big bikes from a dealer who was selling for friends, the book would be transfered in a few weeks,however from what i understand the money was never passed on so the books are still with the orignal owners, They have invoices from the dealer who has since shut down, will not mention the dealers name, So who now owns the bikes? will the orignal owners go after the dealer, or try and find there bikes?

If your referring to .................. formally of Pattaya, good luck with that! There's a line forming right behind you!

[LivinLOS]

And let me guess.. A certain Patts area dealer ??

Update, he went to 2 solicitors today for there advise, yes he has invoice and tax disc which was renewed when he bought the bike Vaild to September,this means, as he has being told ,the seller gave the dealer permission to sell bike, the dealer has the power other wise he cant tax the bike, IE owners passport and ID details.

Well thats not true for a start !!

Taxing the book here just requires green book.. Not the ID or any sale docs... and indictes no proof of ownership.. I can go pay the tax on my brothers bike while hes out of the country.. My missus can pay the tax on my bike.. None of which indicates ownership in any way.

I sympathize with 'your mate' but also think hes stupid to be paying over money without having his name in the book.. Big bike 101 no matter who your dealing with, too many bent and unbooked bikes out there to risk promises ever. I sympathize more for the seller tho, he put his bike up for sale, and its basically been stolen and hes not been paid. I cant for the life of me see how a 3rd party writing out a unofficial receipt can be legally binding on him.. Otherwise ringing a bike is as simple as nicking it and writing yourself a fake receipt !!

Its in someone elses name, that someone hasnt been paid, hasnt given over authority to transfer ownership (power of attorney and tx forms) and holds the book. Thats open and shut legally, the buyer has a dispute with the agent not the owner. All the owner would have to do is go to the police and file it as stolen. Purchasing a stolen bike no matter what invoice is given does not make the bike yours. Even if purchased in good faith (happened to mate of mine in UK actually.. Bought a nicked car with a bent V5 and they came and took the car back). Until the seller is paid and hands over the legal transfer docs its his bike.

Thanks,

So the dealer must have the green book if he was able to tax the bike?

Well thats possible... But maybe the dealer had the owner do it ?? Or maybe the dealer has a contact in the DMV that does it based on a photocopy (I mean this is Thailand, everything gets done if you have the right contacts, and its well known this dealer was as bent as an arabs dagger).. Or maybe one of many things, all I am saying is tax and even less so insurance (I can call up and get insurance on the same bike, certainly doesnt mean I own it !!) legally proves nothing.

In fact, what happens when you have a bike on finance ?? Cos then the finance co holds the book, so how do you then tax it ?? So it seems to me it must be possible to tax it without the book ??

[LivinLOS]

mrsocks1111: I have heard from 2 guys who purchased big bikes from a dealer who was selling for friends, the book would be transfered in a few weeks,however from what i understand the money was never passed on so the books are still with the orignal owners, They have invoices from the dealer who has since shut down, will not mention the dealers name, So who now owns the bikes? will the orignal owners go after the dealer, or try and find there bikes?

If your referring to .................. formally of Pattaya, good luck with that! There's a line forming right behind you!

Thats the thing.. Its not an unknown that this (and many) are too crooked to screw thier shorts on in the morning.. So who would pay 100% of a bike, walk away with it not in thier name, and drive about for months hoping it would all work out ??

[gobs]

Sorry for "your mate", Mrsocks... A lot of sad stories like this one about big bikes...

As said before, the bike owner is "the named one" in the Green Book unless there is a true contract between the dealer and the previous owner...

Here in LOS, NEVER-NEVER trust anybody as a seller (and many times as a mechanic) in "the second hand big bikes market" though you may meet very "gentle" people...

IMHO, do your strong and painful homework first, and then, when you feel ready, jump by yourself into the arena!

Every big bike owner in LOS has a personal "sad story" to tell...

I hope the best to "your mate" in this issue.

Cheers,

Gobs

PS: I don't want to be paranoid, but, please, be aware that many lawyers in LOS, though there are very efficient professionals, are more interested by your money than by the well-ended result...

[katabeachbum]

Insurance can be made by anyone for any vehicle. To tax the bike the book is needed. This does not mean the book is genuine, or transfered to the dealer.