Contract Legal Disclaimer

[surayu]

1) If any business provide me with a product/service that is just useless to me or could create damages to me because the business in question simply want to discharge all his responsability to me, maybe hoping i would not notice or read what they wrote, then i would ask for a refund, easy as that

2) Nobody stated that this lease would not be registered at the Land Office

3) The communication has been very intense and detailed, the staff of this company is so dedicated that they could not even do a "copy & paste" , just to give you an idea, missing some vital part of it and ironically replying to me using the e-mail from which they should have copied from

4) The reason to take an "unfinished" building is simply because i can choose my own furniture/decorations, etc, in the long term it can be cheaper then just to pay for a finished building of the same size, plus once i leave i can just take everything away with me.

5) I don't really want to pay those 20/30 millions for a building i am not sure i want to stay more than those 10 years, also considering that to sell it back it might take just as long.....

6) I don't think that communication in this case was the issue, it's seems to be just a way to do some easy cash and they couldn't bother less about fairness....

[surayu]

you get what you pay for and unfortunately 10000thb pays for a pro forma contract (and not a very good one either)

depending on the lawyer thats the charge out rate for about one hour (i doubt a lawyer even looked at the file)

I do agree to that. Expect to pay in the order of 4,000 to 6,000 baht per hour for a top Thai lawyer.

Sorry but i think you are missing the point, what i think, whatever is the price, 1 satang or 100 millions, if they offer such a service for that price they should just mantein what they say, what cost they will run to or others are offering is none of my business, you say you can do it for that price, then be it, otherways just give back what you do not deserve as in the best of the options you are just misleading a customer, do you think i am wrong to put it on this way?

[surayu]

Just as a note of interest, especially for all of those that think by paying a "little" you can not get what is advertised, the owner of the company in question released an interview were he state that he taked advantage of the fact that no big lawyers were offering services for the rate he does, so in fact giving a guarantee to obtain the SAME SERVICES as by paying the best ones, now you can work out his declaration.....

[thaiwanderer]

I will try not to be too blunt, but please read my comments below and re-read what I have previously written then consider whether this deal is for you. And then do it again.

1) If any business provide me with a product/service that is just useless to me or could create damages to me because the business in question simply want to discharge all his responsability to me, maybe hoping i would not notice or read what they wrote, then i would ask for a refund, easy as that

- If you were considering buying a motorbike would you expect Somchai the tin shed bike repair man to take a look at it for you, give an opinion and then stand by your decision to buy the bike and make massive improvements to it? Your expectations are simply way off. The fee you have paid is very very small and your expectations for it very very large. Ask for a refund by all means (good luck) but you are never going to get a legal firm to match your expectations for that fee. Even if they did remove the disclaimer what then? The landlord kicks you out / breaches the contract and you then sue the landlord and the legal firm - you are then in a contract dispute with the legal firm. Good luck getting an order they are liable and even more good luck successfully enforcing it. To be honest for the fee I would EXPECT that the lease does not protect you against the landlord. Why go into it knowing YOU have not taken reasonable precautions to protect yourself because you are not willing to pay the going rate for what YOU want?

2) Nobody stated that this lease would not be registered at the Land Office

- Then why talk of 3 + 3 + 3 + 1 year? I am very confused. Why not register a 10 year lease (or longer) at the outset? Can I ask are you paying a lawyer (would suggest if you are then not the one you have a bad experience with already) to act for you on the registration? And how cheaply are you hoping to do that for? Remember its about protecting yourself, you can rely on professionals to a certain degree but there comes a point where you have to take your own view on the risks you are incurring. Your frustration at the current loss of the very small lawyer fee would pale into insignificance when you lose your lease fee and improvement costs.

3) The communication has been very intense and detailed, the staff of this company is so dedicated that they could not even do a "copy & paste" , just to give you an idea, missing some vital part of it and ironically replying to me using the e-mail from which they should have copied from

- You have received a shoddy service, get over it. Try to get your money back but am sure you have spent the fee already in your own time (I probably have aswell ). Your priority now should be protecting your position and to be honest from what you have said that would probably entail walking away from the deal entirely now.

4) The reason to take an "unfinished" building is simply because i can choose my own furniture/decorations, etc, in the long term it can be cheaper then just to pay for a finished building of the same size, plus once i leave i can just take everything away with me.

- And presumably this is adequately covered in the lease that has been prepared on the extreme cheap by a legal firm that do not sound the best?

5) I don't really want to pay those 20/30 millions for a building i am not sure i want to stay more than those 10 years, also considering that to sell it back it might take just as long.....

- Well presumably you are definitely entering a 10 year registered lease then (as question above) and the lease price is significantly less than for 30 years? If my understanding is correct you are paying 1million THB for 10 years and paying 1-2 million THB for improvements - is so I would want to make sure the lease gave me adequate protection and then I would want to consider again is it really worth spending that on improvements for a place of that standard (whether I can take those improvements with me or not).

- Please also see my previous post about your other options about renting, long registered leasing or buying a place that that does not need the improvements already - at least then for the same cost you can get the same standard of property (and for the latter two) with some value left in it after 10 years - whats the hassle of renting an already improved property or having an asset to dispose of after 10 years compared to doing the improvements yourself, not having anything after 10 years and maybe not even having anything after you have carried out the improvements. As I said earlier unless you absolutely must have this particular property I would walk away from this deal FAST.

6) I don't think that communication in this case was the issue, it's seems to be just a way to do some easy cash and they couldn't bother less about fairness....

-Well you wanted a lot for a little. IMHO you got the lease contract commensurate with the fee you paid. Use it at your own risk. And I will say again reconsider the deal as a whole again.

Edited April 30, 2009 by thaiwanderer

[surayu]

- If you were considering buying a motorbike would you expect Somchai the tin shed bike repair man to take a look at it for you, give an opinion and then stand by your decision to buy the bike and make massive improvements to it? Your expectations are simply way off. The fee you have paid is very very small and your expectations for it very very large. Ask for a refund by all means (good luck) but you are never going to get a legal firm to match your expectations for that fee. Even if they did remove the disclaimer what then? The landlord kicks you out / breaches the contract and you then sue the landlord and the legal firm - you are then in a contract dispute with the legal firm. Good luck getting an order they are liable and even more good luck successfully enforcing it. To be honest for the fee I would EXPECT that the lease does not protect you against the landlord. Why go into it knowing YOU have not taken reasonable precautions to protect yourself because you are not willing to pay the going rate for what YOU want?

Well if someone offer to me something, we discussed in details about it and then he could not do what he said, why i should accept it? we had an agreement and we know exactly what we wanted, if then one of the parts think to be clever than the other by not caring anymore about the previous agreement then be prepared for some consequencies, did my money where not good? i didn't see anyone complaining, surely i would have considered adjustments if i knew what they were up to, i understand what you mean but i still give people a chance to be honests

- Then why talk of 3 + 3 + 3 + 1 year? I am very confused. Why not register a 10 year lease (or longer) at the outset? Can I ask are you paying a lawyer (would suggest if you are then not the one you have a bad experience with already) to act for you on the registration? And how cheaply are you hoping to do that for? Remember its about protecting yourself, you can rely on professionals to a certain degree but there comes a point where you have to take your own view on the risks you are incurring. Your frustration at the current loss of the very small lawyer fee would pale into insignificance when you lose your lease fee and improvement costs.

Because this is the lenght the "legal expert" quoted to be valid in front of the law, according to him we could not register anything that goes over the 3 years at a time, and not registering at the Land Office then it would made the contract valid for just 1 year, indipendently by whatever else we could write on top of that 1 year, so the registration was a necessity for me, we agreed verbally that once the first step would be concluded to a satisfactory level (the draft of the contract), then i would have paid him for the Land Office part but as you are all aware off, we got stuck on the very first part.....

- You have received a shoddy service, get over it. Try to get your money back but am sure you have spent the fee already in your own time (I probably have aswell ). Your priority now should be protecting your position and to be honest from what you have said that would probably entail walking away from the deal entirely now.

Yes but the "shoddy service" has been described as the best service this company could offer, checked personally by him, the managing director.... i am not really upset about losing a night out worth of cash but by the way some people think to fool you and is even more upsetting when you see that whoes stand on top of it should not really have any issues understanding what you mean and see where the problem is, obviously if is all a calculated scam then he would have some problems at repairing it...and more i read around about him, the more i am getting convinced by this very bad last idea of what it is, as someone who condone corruption it's corrupted of his own

- And presumably this is adequately covered in the lease that has been prepared on the extreme cheap by a legal firm that do not sound the best?

yes this point was missed by them but promptly reminded, again cheap or not cheap that's not the point

- Well presumably you are definitely entering a 10 year registered lease then (as question above) and the lease price is significantly less than for 30 years? If my understanding is correct you are paying 1million THB for 10 years and paying 1-2 million THB for improvements - is so I would want to make sure the lease gave me adequate protection and then I would want to consider again is it really worth spending that on improvements for a place of that standard (whether I can take those improvements with me or not).

In my opinion is worthed but all these dishonest people around really make you think twice about it, and not just this one but any investments, TIT.

- Please also see my previous post about your other options about renting, long registered leasing or buying a place that that does not need the improvements already - at least then for the same cost you can get the same standard of property (and for the latter two) with some value left in it after 10 years - whats the hassle of renting an already improved property or having an asset to dispose of after 10 years compared to doing the improvements yourself, not having anything after 10 years and maybe not even having anything after you have carried out the improvements. As I said earlier unless you absolutely must have this particular property I would walk away from this deal FAST.

yes and maybe using the same firm as a broker too....thanks but no thanks

-Well you wanted a lot for a little. IMHO you got the lease contract commensurate with the fee you paid. Use it at your own risk. And I will say again reconsider the deal as a whole again.

I have surely reconsidered my opinion about this company i had the misfortune to deal with, i hired them because they advertise theirself as a company that can take the risks of your back but in fact they just deceive you big times, beware and thanks for your comments anyway

[Kitsch22]

you get what you pay for and unfortunately 10000thb pays for a pro forma contract (and not a very good one either)

depending on the lawyer thats the charge out rate for about one hour (i doubt a lawyer even looked at the file)

I do agree to that. Expect to pay in the order of 4,000 to 6,000 baht per hour for a top Thai lawyer.

Sorry but i think you are missing the point, what i think, whatever is the price, 1 satang or 100 millions, if they offer such a service for that price they should just mantein what they say, what cost they will run to or others are offering is none of my business, you say you can do it for that price, then be it, otherways just give back what you do not deserve as in the best of the options you are just misleading a customer, do you think i am wrong to put it on this way?

You are right but a bit too soft on the lawyer.

It is to be expected that any professional lawyer will accept responsibility for any advice that he gives or document that he produces unless he makes it clear from the very first that the contrary will be the case. To seek to apply an exclusion clause (and a poorly worded one at that) ex post facto is utterly unprofessional. In UK (I do not know about Thailand) the retrospective attempt would fail anyway. This firm should be avoided like the plague (or the 'flu, as the case may be). Is there no professional disciplinary body in Thailand to take action over this kind of disgraceful behaviour?

I am not suggesting that a ceiling on the level of liability would be improper, but a 100% exclusion certainly is.

[thaiwanderer]

You are right but a bit too soft on the lawyer.

It is to be expected that any professional lawyer will accept responsibility for any advice that he gives or document that he produces unless he makes it clear from the very first that the contrary will be the case. To seek to apply an exclusion clause (and a poorly worded one at that) ex post facto is utterly unprofessional. In UK (I do not know about Thailand) the retrospective attempt would fail anyway. This firm should be avoided like the plague (or the 'flu, as the case may be). Is there no professional disciplinary body in Thailand to take action over this kind of disgraceful behaviour?

I am not suggesting that a ceiling on the level of liability would be improper, but a 100% exclusion certainly is.

we of course were not privy to the initial conversations etc. between the OP and the legal firm (not clear they are lawyers? - if they are there is a professional standards board)

subject to that as i read it he has essentially bought a pro forma lease and the disclaimer would be perfectly proper in such

to think that for that fee the OP would get a 'watertight' contract fit for his/her purposes with the back up of professioinal liability is to kid him/herself

the op may well have been 'induced' by promises but then the OP should be very careful about all his/her dealings and I would counsel having those genuine government diamonds looked at again

my previous posts applies about the legal 'service' but the real issue is the property deal - the fallout with the legal firm now will be as nothing if the OP proceeds with the deal as it appears to stand / at all

[surayu]

Thaiwanderer, the drafted agreement has never been accepted as it's been a total mess (to not say just rubbish) since the very beginning, so totally useless to me, this company seems to be dealing with a multitudes of different areas that stretch from LAWYERS (not just legal services eh?) to burritos, i am not aware of the diamonds, have you bought jewellery from them? i would suggest to stay far away from anything that came out of this company, being now fully aware of what kind of business "ethics" they use

[thaiwanderer]

i am sorry, if you can truly look yourself in the mirror and honestly declare that you expected that fee to give you a good lease with professional liability back up the i will merely have to accept the scale of your indignation

as to the deal itself:

you still going ahead?

what fee are you looking at paying for a good lease without such a disclaimer?

registering it?

how long?

[surayu]

i am sorry, if you can truly look yourself in the mirror and honestly declare that you expected that fee to give you a good lease with professional liability back up the i will merely have to accept the scale of your indignation

as to the deal itself:

you still going ahead?

what fee are you looking at paying for a good lease without such a disclaimer?

registering it?

how long?

That's what they have been offering for that price, feel free to contact them if this upset you so much, what can i say to you? i have been honest so i expect others to be the same, is this so bad for you? ......is your name Greg by any chances ?

[kamalabob2]

Suraya: My name is NOT Greg, but I have on rare occasion bought a few tacos near a BTS station in Bangkok. I've enjoyed less expensive delicious Mexican food at different locations also.

Many of your posts sound exactly like my friends who paid the attorney fees in a US Divorce case.

More to the point: I really think in the "big picture" you should read and consider post #28 from Thai Wanderer and post #30 from Quiksilva.

You might also seriously spend some time and do a "search" for "ATTORNEY" at the bottom of the page where all the various TOPICS are listed in the Thai Visa Forum section

"Real Estate, Housing, House and Land Ownership". You will see other members individual experiences with different lawyers, many based in Bangkok. In my humble opinion you should at least do an initial consultation with A DIFFERENT ATTORNEY in Bangkok, not just to draft a "fair" lease agreement, but on the "long term" effect of this particular lease. Another attorney might be less expensive, might be more (and lawyers will quote prices in advance via e-mail in Bangkok), but as Post #28 and Post #30 are politely pointing out the whole project you are undertaking needs a serious legal review. Not just in Thailand, but all over the World, leases on commercial space can be considered "unfair" to the tenant, especially if that tenant did not hire a good attorney with real estate lease experience. You are "at the mercy of the landlord" the moment a term of your lease runs out. I know from personal experience in Marin County,CA how it can go, and it was not an enjoyable experience. I did NOT hire a reputable attorney for my first office lase back in the 1980's. Education comes with a price. Quiksilva and Thai Wanderer gave you their experienced opinions at no charge and you someday should thank them.

[thaiwanderer]

i am sorry, if you can truly look yourself in the mirror and honestly declare that you expected that fee to give you a good lease with professional liability back up the i will merely have to accept the scale of your indignation

as to the deal itself:

you still going ahead?

what fee are you looking at paying for a good lease without such a disclaimer?

registering it?

how long?

That's what they have been offering for that price, feel free to contact them if this upset you so much, what can i say to you? i have been honest so i expect others to be the same, is this so bad for you? ......is your name Greg by any chances ?

My name is not Greg and if you re-read my posts you will see that I am not defending the legal firm at all. I am suggesting that your expectations are way off. Please don't take that personally.

Given the shoddy service you feel you received and the apparent incorrect legal advice (3+3+3+1 years) any further dealings with them should merely be about your hopes for a refund. However surely that must be a minor issue for now.

You seem determined to continue with this deal despite the obvious problems with it. That is of course entirely your decision. However if I were you I would learn from this and consider what else I may have been misled about (either by wishful thinking or the promises of others). You do have a responsibility to look after yourself and bemoaning the 'principal' of the issue with the legal firm is IMHO distracting you from the real and much bigger elephant trap you are walking into currently.

good luck

[surayu]

Thaiwanderer, i am usually very cautious about giveing money to strangers, i try to look for possibles bad experiences from others around but i couldn't find any, when i try myself to make one i saw it mysteriously disappear, the best i could do is have a conversation in person with these people and they wanted the money BEFORE they would do anything, what precautions should i have taken? it was either a take it or leave it and only now i understand why they wanted the money before..... The reason to pay for a lawyer is meant to be exactly for avoiding that "elephant trap" you are talking about, if that was not clear already....

[surayu]

Hi Kamalabob2, as i said i checked the rates with others lawyers before to choose the more expansive i could find, plans were anyway once the agreement was completed to my satisfaction, to pay 1 or 2 other lawyers to double check the document in question would not arise problems i was not aware of and the original lawyer could have just hyde, but this lawyer seems to be way too obvious to even write on front of your face those silly things, so i didn't went that far. There is no way i would be "at the mercy of the landlord" as i don't care if at the end of those 10 years that lease would be renowed or not, i might well be the one that doesn't want to stay any longer but i might as well be happy to extend it if we find an agreement, easy! Another thing i find hilaryous is the way the lawyers were so stubborn on some clause that were just mired to cause me some sort of disvantage, their excuse was " oh the landlord might find this contract too bad for him.." for cod sake (building is in Pattaya)!, just leave the Landlord decide for himself! i am the one paying for everything and if he's not happy on something i am sure he will address it to me so we can add the necessary adjustments if any....also please note that as already pointed out some of the previouses comments was made on wrong assumptions, thanks

[thaiwanderer]

Thaiwanderer, i am usually very cautious about giveing money to strangers, i try to look for possibles bad experiences from others around but i couldn't find any, when i try myself to make one i saw it mysteriously disappear, the best i could do is have a conversation in person with these people and they wanted the money BEFORE they would do anything, what precautions should i have taken? it was either a take it or leave it and only now i understand why they wanted the money before..... The reason to pay for a lawyer is meant to be exactly for avoiding that "elephant trap" you are talking about, if that was not clear already....

I will try not to be blunt, regardless of what they told you the fee you paid was never in a million years going to protect you from anything.

If you are set on proceeding with this deal and do not trust my assessment of it as it currently appears so be it. In any event I would suggest you engage a decent law firm to advise you on the deal, take your instructions / answer any of yor questions and then IF you still want to proceed have them draft the appropriate documents and act for you on the registration.

However with all due respect given your sticker shock on the (lets be plain) measly fee for a bog standard pro forma contract you are unlikely to want to do that. By all means do it on the cheap but you WILL most likely lose ALL your outlay sooner than you were expecting.

To put it plainly the deal stinks at the moment.

I am not having a go at you at all but it seems you are avoiding fact of the real issue without protecting yourself from its danger. Now is not the time for the head in sand approach I am afraid.

[surayu]

Thaiwanderer, i am usually very cautious about giveing money to strangers, i try to look for possibles bad experiences from others around but i couldn't find any, when i try myself to make one i saw it mysteriously disappear, the best i could do is have a conversation in person with these people and they wanted the money BEFORE they would do anything, what precautions should i have taken? it was either a take it or leave it and only now i understand why they wanted the money before..... The reason to pay for a lawyer is meant to be exactly for avoiding that "elephant trap" you are talking about, if that was not clear already....

I will try not to be blunt, regardless of what they told you the fee you paid was never in a million years going to protect you from anything.

If you are set on proceeding with this deal and do not trust my assessment of it as it currently appears so be it. In any event I would suggest you engage a decent law firm to advise you on the deal, take your instructions / answer any of yor questions and then IF you still want to proceed have them draft the appropriate documents and act for you on the registration.

However with all due respect given your sticker shock on the (lets be plain) measly fee for a bog standard pro forma contract you are unlikely to want to do that. By all means do it on the cheap but you WILL most likely lose ALL your outlay sooner than you were expecting.

To put it plainly the deal stinks at the moment.

I am not having a go at you at all but it seems you are avoiding fact of the real issue without protecting yourself from its danger. Now is not the time for the head in sand approach I am afraid.

....so according to your words it's seems to be no way to avoid being ripped off and loose everything unless i pay in cash the whole sum i am intending to use for the renovation of the place, just under a new denomination : lawyer's fee .....mmm ok i will have a thought or two about it

[thaiwanderer]

i am not saying that

do it on the cheap then

your decision

[Kitsch22]

You are right but a bit too soft on the lawyer.

It is to be expected that any professional lawyer will accept responsibility for any advice that he gives or document that he produces unless he makes it clear from the very first that the contrary will be the case. To seek to apply an exclusion clause (and a poorly worded one at that) ex post facto is utterly unprofessional. In UK (I do not know about Thailand) the retrospective attempt would fail anyway. This firm should be avoided like the plague (or the 'flu, as the case may be). Is there no professional disciplinary body in Thailand to take action over this kind of disgraceful behaviour?

I am not suggesting that a ceiling on the level of liability would be improper, but a 100% exclusion certainly is.

we of course were not privy to the initial conversations etc. between the OP and the legal firm (not clear they are lawyers? - if they are there is a professional standards board)

subject to that as i read it he has essentially bought a pro forma lease and the disclaimer would be perfectly proper in such

to think that for that fee the OP would get a 'watertight' contract fit for his/her purposes with the back up of professioinal liability is to kid him/herself

the op may well have been 'induced' by promises but then the OP should be very careful about all his/her dealings and I would counsel having those genuine government diamonds looked at again

my previous posts applies about the legal 'service' but the real issue is the property deal - the fallout with the legal firm now will be as nothing if the OP proceeds with the deal as it appears to stand / at all

"(not clear they are lawyers")? Is a legal firm without lawyers not equivalent to an omelette without eggs?

Further, even the exclusion clause is hopeless (clue: the document was not prepared by any "party" according to the OP)

If as appears to be the case the document is unfit for ANY purpose then it was not worth 10 baht, let alone 1,000 times that sum. I think the OP should ask the chief honcho at this dodgy outfit if they are members of any professional body that has (and enforces) any rules or standards.

I agree that the OP's approach to his deal may well be misguided, but if so the lawyers should have been able to tell him so for a much more modest sum.

[thaiwanderer]

You are right but a bit too soft on the lawyer.

It is to be expected that any professional lawyer will accept responsibility for any advice that he gives or document that he produces unless he makes it clear from the very first that the contrary will be the case. To seek to apply an exclusion clause (and a poorly worded one at that) ex post facto is utterly unprofessional. In UK (I do not know about Thailand) the retrospective attempt would fail anyway. This firm should be avoided like the plague (or the 'flu, as the case may be). Is there no professional disciplinary body in Thailand to take action over this kind of disgraceful behaviour?

I am not suggesting that a ceiling on the level of liability would be improper, but a 100% exclusion certainly is.

we of course were not privy to the initial conversations etc. between the OP and the legal firm (not clear they are lawyers? - if they are there is a professional standards board)

subject to that as i read it he has essentially bought a pro forma lease and the disclaimer would be perfectly proper in such

to think that for that fee the OP would get a 'watertight' contract fit for his/her purposes with the back up of professioinal liability is to kid him/herself

the op may well have been 'induced' by promises but then the OP should be very careful about all his/her dealings and I would counsel having those genuine government diamonds looked at again

my previous posts applies about the legal 'service' but the real issue is the property deal - the fallout with the legal firm now will be as nothing if the OP proceeds with the deal as it appears to stand / at all

"(not clear they are lawyers")? Is a legal firm without lawyers not equivalent to an omelette without eggs?

- fully agree, doesn't mean there are not lots of egg-less omelettes about

Further, even the exclusion clause is hopeless (clue: the document was not prepared by any "party" according to the OP)

- i know - i pointed it out - technically he could rely on it as not fulfilling a disclaimer - so he can win the school debate on that but in reality???

If as appears to be the case the document is unfit for ANY purpose then it was not worth 10 baht, let alone 1,000 times that sum. I think the OP should ask the chief honcho at this dodgy outfit if they are members of any professional body that has (and enforces) any rules or standards.

- have not seen the whole document, would imagine its very poorly drafted overall, doesn't mean it does not cover fundamentals though I would not want to rely on it - then again i wouldn't pay such a small amount for something (the OP feels) is so important

I agree that the OP's approach to his deal may well be misguided, but if so the lawyers should have been able to tell him so for a much more modest sum.

- As far as I can see the legal firm were not asked to provide an opinion on the deal. If they were that would dilute the already measly fee even more and to me would be nothing more than a boo / horay one way or the other

TBH its up to the OP to take a view on the whole thing - its his responsibility to protect his own money, no one else's. However I do fear for his time in Thailand (or anywhere) given his unreasonable expectations, total reliance on promises and apparent inability to see the bigger picture.

I do however wish him the best of luck and suggest he sits down, takes a deep breath and try and look at whats important rather than be distracted by this wild goose chase on a (relatively) minor issue.

[surayu]

ehmm i don't see how my expectations would be unreasonable, if you go to make any kind of purchase, would you see paying for what you pay unreasonable just because there is someone around selling the same product at a much higher price? sorry i cannot agree with this kind of views, however i agree with the fact that due the high levels of dishonesty around we really have to be carefull, the company in question offer free consultation and it's boasting up the fact that they can match the big ones on the sector on just a fraction of the price, quoting this as one of their main reason to be succesful on that field, but IMO i believe the real reason they are accumulating profits are very different from what they say and i am a living proof of it...

[thaiwanderer]

ehmm i don't see how my expectations would be unreasonable, if you go to make any kind of purchase, would you see paying for what you pay unreasonable just because there is someone around selling the same product at a much higher price? sorry i cannot agree with this kind of views, however i agree with the fact that due the high levels of dishonesty around we really have to be carefull, the company in question offer free consultation and it's boasting up the fact that they can match the big ones on the sector on just a fraction of the price, quoting this as one of their main reason to be succesful on that field, but IMO i believe the real reason they are accumulating profits are very different from what they say and i am a living proof of it...

those validly charging a much higher price to which i refer are NOT selling the same thing as the firm you instructed - they are selling what you apparently wanted

no matter what this firm may have told you i personally would not have believed them if they had said they will advise you on your options and draft a decent lease that protects your position for the fee quoted

if i offer you a kilo of gold for 10baht - who is REALLY at fault if you buy the painted lead that i am actually selling?

you got what you paid for - yes any promises they made may well stick in your throat - it appears you have not learnt from your mistake and will likely repeat it and similar

that is a shame

i will not labour that point anymore

reconsider the deal and your approach to it or you WILL get burnt

good luck

[surayu]

ehmm i don't see how my expectations would be unreasonable, if you go to make any kind of purchase, would you see paying for what you pay unreasonable just because there is someone around selling the same product at a much higher price? sorry i cannot agree with this kind of views, however i agree with the fact that due the high levels of dishonesty around we really have to be carefull, the company in question offer free consultation and it's boasting up the fact that they can match the big ones on the sector on just a fraction of the price, quoting this as one of their main reason to be succesful on that field, but IMO i believe the real reason they are accumulating profits are very different from what they say and i am a living proof of it...

those validly charging a much higher price to which i refer are NOT selling the same thing as the firm you instructed - they are selling what you apparently wanted

- ok, then is surely a case of a honest misunderstanding and they are not aware that they are advertising for services they couldn't really provide, they are so genuinely convinced of this that they will even confirm the service are the same if you ask, thank you TW you have now convinced me that was absolutely no intention from this company to mislead customers and cheat by stealing money in providing you with "legal papers" worth less than my honoured toilette paper, great!

no matter what this firm may have told you i personally would not have believed them if they had said they will advise you on your options and draft a decent lease that protects your position for the fee quoted

- as above

if i offer you a kilo of gold for 10baht - who is REALLY at fault if you buy the painted lead that i am actually selling?

- i have seen people with temporary or permanent financial problems ending up selling valued items worth much more than a kilo of real gold and i can't really say that it was a good deal for them, however this company doesn't seems to be so disperate as yet, i will see more their strategy as the one of a "dishonest" supermarket

you got what you paid for - yes any promises they made may well stick in your throat - it appears you have not learnt from your mistake and will likely repeat it and similar

-i am sorry but i am not the kind of person that will simply accept a scam by doing nothing and giveing these crappy people one more reason to even increase their actions, anyway TW i think LOS really love people with your mentality

that is a shame

- it seems we really got opposite opinions of what should be a shame.....

i will not labour that point anymore

reconsider the deal and your approach to it or you WILL get burnt

good luck

- thanks for your efforts, even if i might not really agree with your thought i appreciated the time you have taken to show me your way of life, i believe in something that someone will address as "karma", you do good and you get good, do bad and you will get what you deserve in a way or another....amen

[thaiwanderer]

cheers, i follow karma too, but do make efforts to protect your position

good luck

[SunbeltAsia]

I want to set the record straight right now as there are so many inaccuracies it what has been described on this thread that I must interject as to clarify. Firstly, Sunbelt Asia stands behind all of its work and we ALWAYS try to satisfy each and every one of clients to the highest degree. Secondly, from day one there has been a fundamental misunderstanding with this client in that the disclaimer that was included in this contract simply stated that we at Sunbelt can not be held responsible if either of the parties breach the contract and that we are responsible for the legality and valid of the contract but not its execution. Please be aware that we had no part in the negotiation of the lease and our lawyers were only hired to draft a contract that was more favorable for our client, the tenant. There is not a law firm on the planet that would draft a lease and then take on the legal responsibility of executing the lease as that firm would be on the hook if either party caused a breach of contract meaning the law firm would be responsible for everything from the collection of rent to the condition of the property.

In regard to the fact that Sunbelt has been evasive in even the slightest bit I take extreme offense to this as I have personally written numerous emails to this client over the last week and prior to that I have records of no less than 10 emails from the weeks prior between this client and our legal staff. In my opinion this client is simply trying to get something for nothing as he has the lease agreement in his hand EXACTLY the way he wanted it.

[sabaijai]

Both sides have had their say now.