News on visa detentions

[opalhort]

the only advice/warning I get recently was : next time , it could be be better to realy leave during 24 h/48 hours mean spend one evening + a night + a morning outside the kingdom. He remenber the law say : the foreigner must leave the kingdom and are able to re enter after one day.

I'm not doubting your story but I've never heard anybody mention this rule.  At face value, this would make any day trip to a border town illegal.  Anybody else ever have an immigrations oficer quote it to them?

true!

the rule is that you can not re-enter Thailand on the same day (within 24hrs.). It's an old rule which has not been enforced for some time.

opalhort

[ovenman]

And do you know if they will stop the consecutive tourist visas too meaning even legitimate frequent tourists (like myself) wouldn't be welcome?

Assuming that the authorities really don't want frequent border hoppers living here long-term on 30-day entries (and it is not yet clear that this is indeed the case), limiting the number of 30-day entries within a given time frame is not the way to solve the problem.  What needs to be done is to limit the number of days in a single calendar year that one can stay in the Kingdom on 30-day stamps.  You want to stay in Thailand for longer in one year than whatever that maximum number of days is?  Get a visa outside the country.

[ovenman]

A Thai driving license is mostly accepted here as an ID card!

One can generally get by with their Thai driver's license as ID, but a license does not demonstrate that one is in the kingdom legally at that very moment.

[Bob Chittie]

And do you know if they will stop the consecutive tourist visas too meaning even legitimate frequent tourists (like myself) wouldn't be welcome?

Assuming that the authorities really don't want frequent border hoppers living here long-term on 30-day entries (and it is not yet clear that this is indeed the case), limiting the number of 30-day entries within a given time frame is not the way to solve the problem.  What needs to be done is to limit the number of days in a single calendar year that one can stay in the Kingdom on 30-day stamps.  You want to stay in Thailand for longer in one year than whatever that maximum number of days is?  Get a visa outside the country.

I agree, but then the question is if they will grant you the visa or will they also limit the number of days per year you may spend in thailand on a tourist visa?

[pschef]

I travelled many times to Bkk and Hatyai with my Thai drivers Licence, at that time my company held my passport. yes I know thats not legal, but they held it anyway. That or no Job & certainly no WP. Just talking with some guys who went through the same experience, they just don't beleive new rules. Like I said before, one guy fired off his job, why? he refused to give up his passport. Were will it end, I know afyter Mr. Fat cat Bush goes home :cool: Quote Remember this man will put our country in trouble? UnQuote. The big man. ???

[Maigo6]

Dr Patpong, if only all those people you describe as 'idiots' where as perfect as you, the world would be a better place.

You are my hero.

[opalhort]

A Thai driving license is mostly accepted here as an ID card!

One can generally get by with their Thai driver's license as ID, but a license does not demonstrate that one is in the kingdom legally at that very moment.

correct!

a Thai driver's license is only issued to foreigners who have at  least a 90 day visa (meaning Non-O/B + long stay). The license for foreigners is limited to one year, renewable every year if the visa is renewed/extended.

Having a Thai driver's license AND a COPY of your passport will solve many problems, just make sure you have the real passport available within a specified time if you encounter a very 'tough' officer.

Off topic note:

a Thai driver's license is very helpful to overcome the "dual-pricing-system". State run tourist attractions let you enter at the Thai rate if you have a valid Thai driver's license.

opalhort

[JT65]

Quote Remember this man will put our country in trouble? UnQuote. The big man. ???

Can someone confirm that this is actually what the "big Man" said because I thought he actually said the " be carefull as just one man will not be the answer to all your problems" which is somewhat different to what people have been posting on this board.  If he did say the former than I am surprised with his standing in this country that more people did not take notice.  

Off topic a bit more I would be interested to know if Taksins book " Think like Taksin" has an English version and if not has anyones thai wife etc read the Thai Version. I would be keen to know if there is any mention of his thoughts on Foreigners in Thailand.

[MaiChai]

I just renewed my Thai driving license and they offered me the 5 year version, which I took, even though I don't do 1 year visa extensions. So there isn't a direct tie up between the Non-imm visa and getting a driving license (different government departments with differing agendas). Just wanted to point that out.

The Thai driving license is accepted pretty well everywhere as ID, and would be preferred to a passport as it has your address in Thai on it, and people are more familiar with it. I have never had a problem just using my Thai driving license as ID; as the other poster said, you can always arrange to show your passport at a later date, if required.

[Khun ?]

I am astounded at how many people should not leave the

care of their parents. Some of you are really dangerous to yourself and maybe others.

What is the definition of tourist.

Why do they put dates and limits on visas.

Has anyone been sentenced by court for any jail time yet.

Some of you have actually made it half way around the world on your own..... Oh my Bhuda, let me have it. ::

[DaveYo]

Axel, yes your Thai Drivers license is good at hospitals, which also gives you Thai rates rather than full blown foreigner rates for services rendered at the hospital.

Secondly to all of you.  Your Passport is your IDENTITY, your TICKET to move about, and if you use AGENTS to do the stamping for you the GORILLA is gonna catch ya, so do it legal and make the border crossing yourselves.   Golly, how many expats are NAIVE here?  AVOID any agent or agency period.  If you have a problem with your passport, GO TO YOUR EMBASSY.

If you fear losing your passport, THEN MAKE CERTIFIED COPIES OF IT, and go to the Thai Embassy to have them certified such by them that the copy is the same as the Original on your passport.   This way if Police see the EMBASSY  STAMP on it they won't give you a hard time along with your other documents showing who you are etc. If you can get a Thai Drivers License, all the more the BETTER because that too is your IDENTITY TO THE Thailand officials.

Now those who have overextended their "vacation" in Thailand under Tourists visas, make your mind up.  Either you want to stay in Thailand for long term, or go home.  If you stay long term get the proper visas and stamps.  If you came as a tourist, then its time to go home once you do your touring.  So I pose this question - What is keeping you from getting your visas in order for the long term, or what is keeping you in Thailand that causes you to over extend your tourist visas?  It has to be one or the other.  Comprende?

You are in NO MAN'S LAND.  You are in their country, not in yours, so shake the dust off your grubs and shoes and say aw, well its time to make a decision, do I go or stay.

Now those who did it all illegal I pity you so face it like a man should and deal with the consequences.  You do have options, which might save you, if you use your head.  Two of them has been mentioned in this thread, and I won't point it out cause this site is monitored by Thai authorities at their discretion.

:blues:     :cool:

[DaveYo]

Oh by the way, yes they are planning to stop this consecutive 30 day tourist visas.  In fact they are intending on reducing it shortly and also will allow only two extensions of the 90 days.  

The reason I believe is too many foreigners have abused the tourist visas to such an extent it has become now a ringling brothers circus act.  It has been reported in the news of this changing soon.  The date has not been set as far as I know of at present time.

So now the Government is coming around to clamp down on it, so who's fault is it.  How many bad apples have abused the privileges?

:blues:  ???

[Guest IT Manager]

These are the same people complaining bitterly and seeking some sort of exemption from the long standing immigration laws of Thailand, allthewhile,whining like banshees about toughening up here, and not seeing that the tightening is clearly aimed at the western non-compliant community.

Whilst I agree with the good doctor about toughening up on non-compliant residents, I suspect the ball is not helped along  by those of us who do comply, to exercise our rightness on the unlucky/lazy/whatever, people who at some stage didn't.

In effect what you are saying is correct, it's their fault, but perhaps attempting to support them rather than belittle them from the lofty heights of residence permit etc, as they wonder what will happen to the children they have fathered and the wives they have married and supported for years would be a tad more constructive and substantially less selfish.

[DaveYo]

Picnose, are you out of your mind to search for the back door?   Your just inviting more pain.   I am sure you know where that is at.

:blues:

[Guest IT Manager]

So that sting knows, the majority of visa agents were farang and not Thai people.

Where did that gem come from. I have never seen a visa agent that wasn't a thai. They work using the brother/sister/cousin etc, at the appropriate border. Bear in mind I may not have seen as many as the good doctor, however in the few years I have been here, I have talked to one particular one about a web site wanted to advertise the service.

I almost threw up in my coffee, but at least she understood when I shared that the deal was likely illegal and it made no sense to advertise it.

[Guest IT Manager]

The non sympathizers on this thread will also no doubt not admit having been partisan to any other knowingly illegal activity in the LOS. Virtually impossible i'd say,and that's after 34yrs of trying.  You Bad stamp guys have my total sympathy i for one will be in full support of my countrymen in true 'Brit' grit. Good luck guys.

I am forced to rethink some views. This is more what I would expect by way of support among foreign long term residents. At some stage every single one of us, in some way, has brioken some law in Thailand. Everyone. And I don't care how small it was, it was a breach of the law, even if in keeping with normal practice.

The chucking of the rock was an important piece of history which behooves all of us to kkeep in mind while we snidely cast aspersions on the stupidity of the Khao San Road Set.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The major agents in Bangkok and Pattaya are ( or were ) farangs ...get another coffee.

[DaveYo]

The non sympathizers on this thread will also no doubt not admit having been partisan to any other knowingly illegal activity in the LOS. Virtually impossible i'd say,and that's after 34yrs of trying.  You Bad stamp guys have my total sympathy i for one will be in full support of my countrymen in true 'Brit' grit. Good luck guys.

I am forced to rethink some views. This is more what I would expect by way of support among foreign long term residents. At some stage every single one of us, in some way, has brioken some law in Thailand. Everyone. And I don't care how small it was, it was a breach of the law, even if in keeping with normal practice.

The chucking of the rock was an important piece of history which behooves all of us to kkeep in mind while we snidely cast aspersions on the stupidity of the Khao San Road Set.

am forced to rethink some views. This is more what I would expect by way of support among foreign long term residents. At some stage every single one of us, in some way, has brioken some law in Thailand. Everyone. And I don't care how small it was, it was a breach of the law, even if in keeping with normal practice.

Hmmmmmmm,  is it only Thailand?  Now tell me what law do you need to break in Thailand when it comes to your Visas, or Passports or Stamps?   For example if someone told you to walk south, and keep walking and don't stop, and what you got in front of you is water - are you going to continue to walk.  Does the Government encourage Foreigners to break the law concerning Passports, Visas, and or stamps?  Sure I agree many countries have corrupt systems, and or people, but that law was there for a reason.  If they did not have such system to curtail illegal passports, Visas and or stamps, can you imagine every terrorist having a field day in any country in the world?

:blues:

[Boo]

When I first came to thailand I entered on a 1 month tourist visa because I had no idea how long I would stay, when my month was up I asked the owner (American) of the resort I was staying at how to get a new visa etc, he told me that I could send it via his agent (thai) who would bring my passport back in a week with a 6 month double entry visa for a fee of about 3k baht, when I expressed concern about sending my passport with a stranger he assured me that it was perfectly legal & that everyone did it (including him) & even asked the guy to come meet me, who brought a whole bunch of other passports to show me that it was the norm.

Visa services & agents up until a month ago were openly advertising this service & the police & immigration were turning a blind eye & to slam anyone who has used these services is just ignorant & petty.

Yes, we come here as guests & I for one read alot about thailands pratices, culture & beliefs before coming here & in none of the guide books I read did it warn tourists that this service was illigal & knowing that everyone else was doing it too made me think that this was a legal service.

The police, immigration & government in general have for years turned a blind eye to this practice & the thais operating the services have made a lot of money in the process, ok farang, slap on the wrist, don't do it again & if your caught with an illigal stamp from this day on you will go to jail, but, sorry we knew this was going on, we even took throw backs from the agents & led everyone to believe that it was ok but now you must pay large bail fine & maybe even do some jail time. Purleese.... this is just another Toxin scam to scare the foreigner, if anyone is not sure about their stamps, "loose" your passport & get a new one asap & in the future be a little wiser. I for one wish you good luck & hope you escape the witchhunt.

[PK2]

but then the question is if they will grant you the visa or will they also limit the number of days per year you may spend in thailand on a tourist visa?

I am only aware of Singapore Thai embassy limiting 60 day tourist visas. They won't allow you another until you have been out of Thailand for 60 days. Not sure how long they've been applying this rule or why and or if others will follow.

[marvin]

This is all very bad news for everyone out there wouldn't you agree?  What happens to those I guess hundreds of expats who have sent there passports off with agents and don't know where they are?  Should they just sit and wait for eveything to blow over after Apec or try to do something about it?  My heart goes out to all of you who have found yourselves albeit nievely in this position. ???

[jaded]

Marvin, my sentiments precisely. There is an alarming amount of superiority being displayed on this board regarding the HORRIBLE predicament some unfortunates are in. They may have (unwittingly or not) broken a law that has not been enforced for decades (although in the late '80s some of the more 'popular' posts enforced a 24 hour limit on leave and return for 30 days).

All I will say is that those currently on their high horses better watch out, because the agenda is now clear. The US pressure has given Thaksin the go-ahead to enact policies he's wanted for a while now. He will take EVERY opportunity to expand the current situation as this country is no longer a democracy, it is a defacto dictatorship.

Good luck to those on their high horses and I hope you receive more sympathy than you've so far shown when your world crumbles around you. And it most certainly will.

[taxexile]

Purleese.... this is just another Toxin scam to scare the foreigner

rubbish,total and utter rubbish!!

he is trying to cut out the corruption here that has besmirched thailands name internationally for many years.he has installed new heads of government departments whos job will be to weed out corrupt officials.he is relying on these people to ensure compliance from the top to the bottom.he may or may not succeed.corruption is endemic here.

as falangs we have always criticized thailand for being so corrupt,yet at the same time have been happy to benefit from it.(visa agents,reduced speeding and traffic light fines,visiting massage parlours and nud_e bars,jumping the queue for phone lines and electricity supply)

without corruption ,thailands image will improve,foriegn investment will increase,and slowly but surely poverty levels will decrease and public services improve.

in the process,thaksin will probably double his net worth,but that is another argument altogether. dont flatter yourself to think that this is solely aimed at the falang

[bangkokblue]

Both the defense and sad to say expat prosecutors on this forum have put forward their case, surely it's now time to move forward in support of your fellow countrymen, or is pariotism also becoming an illegal activity in LOS. These guy's need guidance and support not insulting sarcasm, leave that until their on home soil then throw the biggest rock you can find if in your heart to do so.

[scooter]

For those of you who claim that farang should have known better, I'd like to say that hindsight is 20/20 !!!

I came to Thailand a few months ago straight from Europe and can honestly say that I had no idea that these services were illegal till the shit hit the fan a month or so ago. Every travel shop on Koh Tao where I was staying had signs offering this services and everyone who was planning on staying longer than 30 days used these services.

Also, Lonely Planet Thailand in both the English (2001 Ed.) and German (2000 Ed.) versions give an address of a travel agent to go to on the island to for a visa extension !! OK yes I should have known better, but the fact that it has been a sortof illegal-legal going on for years and that both immigration and police knew about it but did nothing about it had me believe it would continue that way.

What galls me most about this situation is that the government is only targeting the farang this "cleanup". Friends of mine have been arrested while trying to leave the country, numerous others have had to "loose" their passports to get rid of evidence of the bad stamps and pay huge sums of overstay to the immigration. Those who have been arrested have had to pay 150-250.000 B for release and are facing up to 5yrs in prison.

All have come clean about where they bought the fake visas from, but not ONE of the shops (on Koh Tao at least) have been closed down. All shops on Koh Tao are still open and running. Mamas Travel on Khao San Rd. which was reported to have been the first one where a Thai was arrested is still operating and with Mama at the helm. If the Thai government are serious about cracking down on this, then fairs fair. Prosecute BOTH parties. I read a statement from Thaskin or an immigratino official saying that farang "bribed" local Thais to bring their passports to the border. That really makes me laugh !!! I was offered this service by numerous tour operators and all assured me it was legal. Who bribed who ??

The fact that they are only prosecuting the farang intimates that it is just about money, not justice. But I know from first hand experience that most of my friends who are f**ked now would gladly pay ANY amount to get out of facing a prison sentence. Unfortunately this doesnt seem to be on offer and they will have to wait it out for 6 weeks till this comes to trial. Personally I think a prison sentence (in the US and Oz for example you get detained in a Detension Centre not sent to prison for same offence) is more than slightly over the top.

What also boggles the mind is why the embassies are not doing more to help their citizens. Many citizens have already contacted their embassies but I can say there are hundreds if not thousands more who are wondering what the #### to do and wish there was any way that they could sort this out with immigration, pay or whatever and have a legal stamp again. Even leaving Thailand or being deported isnt sounding so bad anymore !!!

It is ridiculous that one has to "loose" their passport in order to get a new stamp.  Why doesnt the Thai government try to cut a deal with the farang in this situation? As one member suggested, perhaps offer an Amnesty Period where all farang can come and show their passports, say where they got the stamps, pay a fine (deport or blacklist if they really want) and let us all get on with it???

All I can say is i am so glad that for me the situation is ok, but this last month has left a sour taste in my mouth and I will be glad to leave this country. And I know that many more feel the same, unfortunately for some it could be quite a while before they are allowed

Fingers crossed for all of you in the same situation.

[MaiChai]

Keeping the news flowing from the ground up is more important than reformatting views. Lets keep the news flowing. Anyone had any bad experiences with their visas, and wish to share the information, particularly anything recent.

[Axel]

Let everybody in this forum express an own opinion. Mine is in here, no need to repeat.

If you go to a lawyer with your case and assumed his is worth his money, the first thing he will point out is the worse scenario and than look for a solution, which I doubt he will find

at this moment.

You go as an individual to your embassy and talk to the guy in charge, he will be horror stricken that you have done a thing like this. Mind you you bring extra work.

In your single case the response will be "cannot help, you offended local laws"

This is a reason why I proposed, get the embassies involved in numbers, write to your tabloids back home the more write the higher the chance to get them interested. The contents must be the punishment is too high compared to what would happen at home.

Headline: Our young guys on holiday face upto ten years in jail in the hot and merciless jungles

[ChiangMaiThai]

Since the Thai Governemnt apparently reads this from time to time, i ask them this. When do you plan on arresting and prosecuting the agents, immigration officers and police who have provided the means for a passport to be sent to the border? I don't doubt Dr. Pat Pong's observation that most of the agents he knew of in BKK were run by farangs. However, even in this case, what of the corrupt police and immigration officials? And in my experience, I know of a dozen agencies in Chiang Mai, Koh Pha Ngan, Koh Tao and Samui, all operated by Thais. Why do you only arrest the farang who has in many cases been tricked into beleiving that this is normal everyday practice? The fact that you don't arrest any of the major players in this business only demonstrates how corrupt you really are.

[ChiangMaiThai]

Also, Lonely Planet Thailand in both the English (2001 Ed.) and German (2000 Ed.) versions give an address of a travel agent to go to on the island to for a visa extension

Why doesnt the Thai government try to cut a deal with the farang in this situation? As one member suggested, perhaps offer an Amnesty Period where all farang can come and show their passports, say where they got the stamps, pay a fine (deport or blacklist if they really want) and let us all get on with it???

To all you who have stated that only idiots and bums who are well aware they are breaking a serious law would ever use an agent, please note this post regarding Lonely Planet's reccomendations. This is a well respected authority on Thailand.

Regarding the second point, I agree completley. If the goal was to really stop the agents compeltley, then the logical thing to do would be to give an amnesty to all those who have used their services in return for information as to who provided the service and where their stamps came from. Again, the fact that instead of doing this, they arrest and deport the farangs who have used the services shows just how incrediby corrupt the Thai government is.

[jaded]

Texexile (wich i believe says it all!)

Get off your banana boat before it sinks! 'besmiching'? No! You get real. If you genuinely believe that the PM has insituted a moral crusade, then I advise you to check into the nearest hospital offering mental health facilities. Either that, ot you have absolutely NO real idea about how things work outwith a REAL democracy!

To the other posters and mods, please excuse my vehemence, but this kind of naive claptrap makes my blood boil!

Oh. He's 'installing' new 'heads of goverment is he Taxexile? Try reading the papers. I personally witnesses a column of 20 MBTs (Main Battle Tanks) go down Pahonyothin Road at max speed Road the Siam Square area one night. THE NEXT DAY the PM sacked the Chief of Staff and installed... wait for it... his sister's husband!!!!!!!!!!

I eagerly await your response.