News on visa detentions

[jaded]

Axel. Re: embassies. It is much less work for them to issue a new passport than to deal with the mess of a detained national. The UK embassy has ONE legal attache with not more than three assistants. They will be unable to cope with the present problem. A diplomatic solution is being sought as we 'speak'.

[marvin]

I have a friend who has a b131 Sadao entrance stamp although his visa hasn't run out it will do soon. The question is we have noticed that b29 b008 are illegal what about b131. any ideas anyone? Does anyone know how often the stamp numbers are changed or how many are in use at the moment?

[taxexile]

jaded,(which may also say a lot),thank you for your response,naturally, i am not in agreement with so much as one word of it.

my comments were about the immigration dept. and not about the ministry of defense,nor was i commenting about thaksins  habit of placing relatives and friends in important positions.i have read about this but dont know enough about it to be able to offer an opinion.i have tried reading the bangkok post and the nation but the newspapers here do not report enough for those who wish to get some kind of understanding as to what goes on in the corridors of power here.those that base their opinions on what those two papers report are the real naive ones.i concentrate mostly on the sports pages.

it is my understanding that new heads of immigration have been appointed, their purpose being to "clean up the shop".

the hanbali incident probably sparked the whole thing off.

there seemed to some kind of typographical error in your reply and i'm not sure what you meant by "outwith a real democracy" its probably difficult to type accurately when in an irrational rage. but thailand is relatively new to the democratic process and is slowly learning.powerful leadership is often beneficial in the early stages of democracy.

if you were here when the army was mostly in charge and real tanks,armed up and meaning business,were rolling down the streets,leaving casualties behind them, then i think you will agree that things are better now.

the tourists caught for using visa agents are in a very unfortunate position,that they do not deserve to be in.i dont know what the answer is.i hope they are not dealt with too harshly.but that does not alter the fact that unwittingly they broke laws at a time when thailand was embarrassed by hambali,and now the immigration dept. must be seen to be doing things about it.the tourists are just innocent pawns in all this.thai justice is very different from western justice.the closure of the agents themselves is, i think, down to the police,a different department altogether,the police will need evidence,which the immigration department may in fact be gathering now.lets hope they are.

fyi, i am not a taxexile,i pay taxes both here and in the uk.

i just liked the name.

i also await your response.

[wilson steer]

I received a phone call this morning at 3.30 am. from a friend of mine who lives in Pattaya nine months a year. He had been detained at Bangkok airport upon arrival. Apparently they had looked through his passport and noticed a visa stamp from 2001, where he had used an agent to get another 30 day stamp.

He was asking me to send him £1760.00 GBP sterling so he could get bail. I will send this Monday morning, to get him out of a hole.

It seems amazing that even upon ARRIVAL at Bangkok they are checking previous Thai visas. This is a very worrying development.

It seems that a real crackdown on 'previous' sins are being scrutinized.

For peace of mind, I would only feel confident with a brand new passport. Some of my entry stamps are blurred, with moisture and might be deemed 'illegal' even though I have never used an agent to renew my passport.

Things really are spiralling out of control here. The rumours about three months and home for six months are rife. Just what is going on. I feel Thailand now wants only 'bog standard 2-3 week tourists' on an automatic 30 day arrival visa who come once a year.

People like myself, who have a whole passport full of tourist, 30 day visas etc. are being targeted!

What are the facts, how do we all stand?

[JT65]

Hi All

Have followed this since the beggining and am very disappointed in the actions of the government on this issue. They seem to forget how many Thais live overseas. Anyway harping on the unfairness of it all will not change anything. Fairness and Integrity are not qualities that seem to be found easily in Thailand.

I am for putting out some real info on what we all know and pooling our information so as we may help each other as much as we can. Bickering amongst ourselves is a waste of energy.

I have been around asking as many foreigners and some agents as much as I can and as far as I have heard that the fake stamps originated this last summer mainly from the southern areas of Thailand. That means people may have fake stamps if they used agents around Bangkok or in the South in May, June, July of this year.  From the people I have spoke to the northern stamps coming from Maesai and Chaingsaen and Maesot are all okay. Also people have posted on this website that the stamps may be 1-2 years old but from the info i have got it is only stamps from this year that are the problem. Please understand I am not posting this as factual information rather information that I have gathered myself of other expats etc. I am posting it so as others may do the same so we can begin to pool the information and try to help each other. I personally am fine with my stamps as I do my own runs but I have many friends who are not and I do not want them losing wads of cash to the same people who promoted the service in the beggining. Nor do I wish to see them in a Thai Jail wether it be 5 days or 5 years.

Lets try to at least agree that helping our fellow expats is a better option than telling them they should have known better. The stress levels of the expats I know are through the roof at present and many are leaving the country and selling up. This , I believe is what the Government wants. I am not sure if it is what the Thai people want but when I return to my own country I certainly will have a very different view of Thailand than the one I came with.

Cheers

[bangkokblue]

I received a phone call this morning at 3.30 am. from a friend of mine who lives in Pattaya nine months a year. He had been detained at Bangkok airport upon arrival. Apparently they had looked through his passport and noticed a visa stamp from 2001, where he had used an agent to get another 30 day stamp.

He was asking me to send him £1760.00 GBP sterling so he could get bail. I will send this Monday morning, to get him out of a hole.

It seems amazing that even upon ARRIVAL at Bangkok they are checking previous Thai visas. This is a very worrying development.

It seems that a real crackdown on 'previous' sins are being scrutinized.

For peace of mind, I would only feel confident with a brand new passport. Some of my entry stamps are blurred, with moisture and might be deemed 'illegal' even though I have never used an agent to renew my passport.

Things really are spiralling out of control here. The rumours about three months and home for six months are rife. Just what is going on. I feel Thailand now wants only 'bog standard 2-3 week tourists' on an automatic 30 day arrival visa who come once a year.

People like myself, who have a whole passport full of tourist, 30 day visas etc. are being targeted!

What are the facts, how do we all stand?

The facts are clear,But the final sentence is a long way off, visa's just being one issue. You stand my good man as a patriotic farang coming to the assistance of another in need good on you.Like most others i only wish i had the answer rather than having to admit my helplessness here.

[DaveYo]

Oh, now they go back to 2001!  Hold on everybody, bottom line is if you have more than 3 tourists stamps in less than 3 years, or if it got it extended while you are there and used some agent for any visa stamp on that passport even it goes back to 2000 or 1999, get rid of the passport and get a new one.  That is all there is to it.  How you get rid of it is up to you.  But if you got stamps on that passport that might be of even a  slightest question,  and or you got even the slightest doubt of it being legal, and you know you went behind back doors even for just one time, and even if it was 5 years ago get rid of that passport period.  Why take the chance.  Up to you.  Get a new fresh one and make sure all is legit.  Then you are on safe territory.

The problem is not only in Thailand itself with the expats being there.  It is also going to be a huge major problem with all those tourists who are now in fact gone but someday will come back and then bingo.  It is these people who are not made aware of the situation of their passports and or stamps that might be of question.  So how many are we talking about here?  Worldwide.

Ahhhhhhhhh,  someone guessed like 50,000,  I guess maybe more.  It will be interesting on what the Thai Government is going to do when those jails begin to swell up and practically overload.   By that time I do believe there is going to be an outcry worldwide from everyone because bottom line is the Government has known this to exist for years and never did a darn thing about it, till now.

 It remains to be seen that the only solution will be some amnesty of some sort like for a 2 year or 3 year run so all those who did enter and do return at some point of time don't have to be arrested but have such crossed out and voided all the bad stamps on their passports by the immigrations when they detect it.  Once they have completed its check, then immigrations should stamp that such was checked on such and such date and signed officially  and verified.  After that if one gets another bad stamp, adios face the music.

This is what they should be doing in the first place rather than detaining people because of bad stamps and instead issue a severe warning with a fine attached to it.  What is cheaper, arresting and detaining or issue a severe warning and a fine and verified such was officially checked and cleared.

I pose this suggestion to his Highness and to the PM of Thailand, should they ever come across this statement.

:blues:

[wilson steer]

Dave Yo, what do you mean 'more than three tourist stamps in three years?'

[DaveYo]

Wilson, what I am saying  is under the general means that is common for most folks is when they go on vacation etc, like to thailand, they will go like once a year, and then return home.  Sometimes the vacationers like what they see and return again the following year.  And maybe so on for the third year.   In other words most folks travel to specific places perhaps once a year unless your a business person which is different and you can end up going to the same place maybe 5 or 6 times a year depending on the circumstances.

Therefore I suspect the Immigrations is on the lookout for these 30 day stamps, and perhaps maybe going back at least 5 years, and also the 30 day extensions, for the most part.  Perhaps they are also looking deeper for the longer ones.  I do not know, but from what I have been reading here, it seems they are concentrating on these 30 day tourist deals and extensions.

What bothers me is they are looking at perhaps 1999 and or 2000.  That is three years ago.

I am curious if there is a lawyer in this forum that is familiar of Thailand Law to tell me what is the statue of limitations concerning these stamps.  There has to be a cut off point.  Like here in usa, if you did some offense, the statue of limitations in most cases is 3 years.  After 3 years they cannot bang you.  Say they find out on the 5th year, they cannot prosecute you, because the statue of limitations ran out.

I think the same applies to these stamps, and I would sure like to know about the legal status of its limitations.

Dr. PP  ----------I know you have sources.  Can you find this out by asking some Thai Lawyer familiar with Thai Law and Immigrations concerning such limitations of these stamps and Visas, and also how far back can the Government legally prosecute you?

Interesting to also note, You get a stamp to enter, and a stamp to extend and then you get a stamp showing your departure.   Now I am not a lawyer, but to me technically you left the country so now that sequence of stamps prior to your departure become null and voided.  You left the country.

To return, now you need a new entry stamp.  So you enter the country again, you are under the new sequence of stamping, so any prior stamps they are useless and are dead and moot.

So why does Immigrations want to B/S with prior dead stamps?

Comments are welcomed     :blues:

:cool:  ???

[Boo]

To return, now you need a new entry stamp.  So you enter the country again, you are under the new sequence of stamping, so any prior stamps they are useless and are dead and moot.

So why does Immigrations want to B/S with prior dead stamps?

Good point, I just re-entered 2 weeks ago on a one month tourist visa which was given to me with no hassle or fuss at BKK Airport mmigration, if I go to Penang after my wedding to get my non O is it still possible for them to throw me in the slammer even though the BKK imm people let me in the country?

I have looked through my passport since coming back & cannot see any of the mentioned fake numbers but maybe it would be a nice gesture if someone in the know could post a list of all the dodgy numbers for me & other members who don't know what they all are? I am quite happy to "have my passport stolen" but do not want to add to the stampeed that is probably already at the UK Embassy.

[DaveYo]

Boo, first of all congrats on your pending Wedding!  Hey all members of this forum, lets tip our hats to the soon to be Bride! :blues:

Now as to your situation Boo, apparently you cleared immigrations at the airport, so I would take that to mean your clean.  But don't hold your breath if you had taken services before and if you did, you may have been one of the lucky ones to get the real stamp and it was recorded in their data base.  I would still approach it with caution.  Be careful of the Penang run.  One member here described on how he got nailed to the cross with a faulty stamp on his passport.

Going to Penang Thai Embassy in person should be OK for you, just avoid runners or anybody who wants to assist you with your passport.  If the embassy staff says to you in person to leave it, I would take that to be legit cause you are inside the Embasy compound.

For me personally, sure i can do my 90 day runs, but when my visa is almost up, I have to make a decision to either apply in the Thailand area, or take a flight back to usa and get it extended in USA.  I know the airfare will be something expensive, but at least I know i can get it extended without a problem in the USA Thai Embassy.

So Boo, do me a favor and private message me after your Penang run and give me the details of what happened to your extension and if you had any hassles or not.  OK  I would like to know.

Again Congrats on your pending marriage, Dum dum da dum, dum dum da dum, ah I see her walking down the aisle beaming like the sun.  Ta da.  :blues:

[Boo]

Thanks Dave, Think it will be more like chuffing sang som in the sea beeze but along the same lines anyway.

Your right, I have used agents in the past, not everytime but at least once a year so the risk is still there, but after looking through my passport at all the stamps and re-entering without a problem, I cannot see any of the fake ones mentioned, so if anyone can post some more fakes it would be greatly appriciated. btw. I have used only 2 agents in the last 5 years, the 1st one mentioned in my previous post & then a travel agent near my home since (who others have used & also re-entered recently with no problem) I also WILL NOT be using any service of this kind from now on. As I said before, you take the advice of long termers, read in guide books & see the adverts on the street & think it's legit, so I for one never knew until recently but hey, TiT!  I'll let you know how I got on in Penang.

Thanks again for the congrats.

[mesquite]

I received a phone call this morning at 3.30 am. from a friend of mine who lives in Pattaya nine months a year.  

He was asking me to send him £1760.00 GBP sterling so he could get bail.

I am assuming your friend is British.  It seems Brits are being targeted.  I have yet to read of a US person being arrested.   Has anyone else?

[JT65]

I received a phone call this morning at 3.30 am. from a friend of mine who lives in Pattaya nine months a year.  

He was asking me to send him £1760.00 GBP sterling so he could get bail.

I am assuming your friend is British.  It seems Brits are being targeted.  I have yet to read of a US person being arrested.   Has anyone else?

This is an interesting point. More Brits seem to be targeted. I have not heard of any Australians, Americans or generally those countries about to attend the APEC meeting been arrested. It seems the APEC expats are not been targeted. I may be wrong about this one.  If anyone has heard of an APEC foreigner been arrested would appreciate if they could post the info.

[ovenman]

I am an American citizen and will be leaving the kingdom in a few days for a trip to India.  My passport of chock-full of (legal) Thai entry/exit stamps.  It will be interesting to see if the older stamps receive any scrutiny from outbound immigrations.

[bluebear]

I am for putting out some real info on what we all know and pooling our information so as we may help each other as much as we can. Bickering amongst ourselves is a waste of energy...........

Lets try to at least agree that helping our fellow expats is a better option than telling them they should have known better. The stress levels of the expats I know are through the roof at present and many are leaving the country and selling up. This , I believe is what the Government wants.

JT65 Thank you for a voice of sanity over the "Im alright jack posters"

I am probably like a lot of others.  Last year I got a few stamps from The Wall then went back home on holiday and am now back with a legal NI B Visa.  The possibility of immigration now checking back is what is scaring me and a lot of others.  I did a day run to Poipet about 9 weeks ago with no problem, I didnt notice anymore scrutiny than usual and in April went out for a holiday, again no problems.  But of course, this was all before the crackdown.

The problem I have is that my passport is actually with my employer as I am applying for a work permit. I actually got the passport in September last year in Bangkok as my old one was about to expire, so have about 5 months of 30 day run stamps. Looking through my photocopied (new) passport I havent got Sadao stamps but I have Pedang Basar.  Will they check more carefully at Suan Plu than at Bangkok?

It is the uncertainty that is worrying everyone.  What stamps are illegal illegal ie fake stamps, what are legal but obtained illegally ie visa services, what crossings are strict, how far back are they checking, what crossings are not bothered unless your current stamp is dodgy.....?

I was speaking last night to a french guy who was flying up to Laos to start a job there.  He was arrested and is currently on bail awaiting his trial ( He used a KSR agency), he was detained with around 10 others who had been picked up that day, Americans, British, Australian....   So its not a Brit thing and just because your APEC, you are not safe.

[dropout]

Just thought I'd add a little more gloom and doom to the board.  I just returned this afternoon from a visa run to poi pet. As I was returning from aranya prathet, I saw three western guys handcuffed in the back of a police pickup truck and watched as it turned into a police station no more than 20 kilometers from the border.  I cannot say with certainty whether those guys were being hauled in for visa violations but it seems to me that they probably were.  I sure as #### wouldn't want to be them today.

[taxexile]

is it only fake 30 day tourist permits that are being caught or are they arresting those with fake 90 day entry chops on a (valid)non-imm. multi entry visa also.

does anybody know??

[Rambutan]

Hey Dropout,

do you have any idea if they were arrested when leaving or when reentering?

And did they ask you any questions when you reentered?

Do you have already a lot of those stamps or just a few?

[george]

is it only fake 30 day tourist permits that are being caught or are they arresting those with fake 90 day entry chops on a (valid)non-imm. multi entry visa also.

does anybody know??

The Immigration are checking all dodgy entry stamps now, the 30 days, the 60 days and the 90 days. Random checks is done both at exit and entry.

[Bob Chittie]

if you turn up at thai immigration with your new blank passport, even if they are highly suspicious that you didn't really lose your last passport, can you expect to get your entry stamp so all is legit again?

[JT65]

At this stage I still think the only option for the people who are not sure of their stamps is to get a new passport. Of course this only works if the last stamp was a real one. If the last one was not then I guess it wont be in the computer. I agree immigration will be suspicious about you having lost your passport but what can they really do.

Any better ideas should be posted as many people will be running out of time im sure.

[dropout]

I don't have any dodgy stamps and I wasn't questioned.  Made the decision long ago not to use the visa services.  Its always been my opinion that it was just a matter of time before the authorities started cracking down and that it would be easy enough to print out a computerized list of the people who had used the visa services once they decided to crack down and start arresting people.  Knowing the confession rate is about 99.9% for people caught by the Thai police, I thought any one who did use the service was asking for trouble. Now I'm glad I suffered through those long journeys to the border, dealing with flys and shoeing off those pesty touts.

I didn't actually talk to the guys I saw because I was driving by the Thai police station after having returned from the cambodian border.  Cannot be sure why they had been arrested.  Just speculating that it was for visa problems.

[Roger13]

I am quite happy to "have my passport stolen"

Whatever you do with your passport do NOT have it stolen.!!!

That will require you to make a Report to the Police ... !!!!

Roger

[Bob Chittie]

I am quite happy to "have my passport stolen"

Whatever you do with your passport do NOT have it stolen.!!!

That will require you to make a Report to the Police ... !!!!

Roger

At least for the US embassy, you have to make a police report no matter what, whether it was stolen or lost so I guess just lose it.

[twentyfourhoursx7]

Scooter I’ve got news for your friends.

It will be at least 3 years for the conclusion of a court case here in Thailand.

If you were Japanese your Embassy may help you, but for others don’t waste your time.

I will take bet they get jail term and have to go to the Supreme Court after they loose their first appeal.

MaiChai Its not just about Visas.

Thailand are Rich now and don’t need our money now they have paid their DEBTS.

Axel is right except for one suggestion.

Thailand won’t care what the rest of the world will think.

ChiangMaiThai why would they arrest a Thai that has no money and brought great wealth to Thailand.

Lonely Planet could be up for legal action against them if they have backed this Visa Scam.

wilson steer Expect to support him for the next 3 years while he can not leave the country.

JT65 The Thai Computer system is better than we give credit for.

I suggest that even with a new replacement Passport you work out what could be on computer and what is not before you hand yourself in.

And don’t forget that the Thai Immigration would have been given all the lists of foreigners that have used the illegal services so that the Thai owners would not be charged for helping stamp out corrupt visitors.

I suggest to those who stay in Thailand with scammed Visas think about changing address before they come looking for you at the address you filled in on the Visa form at the scam office.

I approached this forum for help before and some laughed.

You got no chance of them helping your friend.

Bangkokblue There is an answer just stay tuned.

I wanted to start a website solely listing Thai corruption. Is anyone interested.

It will run from Australia Land of the Free.

Can anyone help now.

DaveYo the average person with no money wont last more than 3 weeks in a Thai Jail before doing himself in.

If you go in and have no money or friends on the outside you will die there.

The King didn’t even know their was a Coo on years ago until he seen it on TV

Bob Chittie After getting a new Passport in BKK you are required to go straight to the Thai Immigration (which I have been through) For them to check it with their records.

If you do it at a border and have problems you will see what #### and the Devil himself look like. At least in BKK you may only see ####.

Roger13 Being stolen may not be so bad. You could blame someone else for the stamps.

But I think even if lost you are still required to report it to police.

 

[taxexile]

Lonely Planet could be up for legal action against them if they have backed this Visa Scam.

now there's a thought  !!

did they really advise using these companies??

[JT65]

Scooter I’ve got news for your friends.

It will be at least 3 years for the conclusion of a court case here in Thailand.

If you were Japanese your Embassy may help you, but for others don’t waste your time.

I will take bet they get jail term and have to go to the Supreme Court after they loose their first appeal.

MaiChai Its not just about Visas.

Thailand are Rich now and don’t need our money now they have paid their DEBTS.

Axel is right except for one suggestion.

Thailand won’t care what the rest of the world will think.

ChiangMaiThai why would they arrest a Thai that has no money and brought great wealth to Thailand.

Lonely Planet could be up for legal action against them if they have backed this Visa Scam.

wilson steer Expect to support him for the next 3 years while he can not leave the country.

JT65 The Thai Computer system is better than we give credit for.

I suggest that even with a new replacement Passport you work out what could be on computer and what is not before you hand yourself in.

And don’t forget that the Thai Immigration would have been given all the lists of foreigners that have used the illegal services so that the Thai owners would not be charged for helping stamp out corrupt visitors.

I suggest to those who stay in Thailand with scammed Visas think about changing address before they come looking for you at the address you filled in on the Visa form at the scam office.

I approached this forum for help before and some laughed.

You got no chance of them helping your friend.

Bangkokblue There is an answer just stay tuned.

I wanted to start a website solely listing Thai corruption. Is anyone interested.

It will run from Australia Land of the Free.

Can anyone help now.

DaveYo the average person with no money wont last more than 3 weeks in a Thai Jail before doing himself in.

If you go in and have no money or friends on the outside you will die there.

The King didn’t even know their was a Coo on years ago until he seen it on TV

Bob Chittie After getting a new Passport in BKK you are required to go straight to the Thai Immigration (which I have been through) For them to check it with their records.

If you do it at a border and have problems you will see what #### and the Devil himself look like. At least in BKK you may only see ####.

Roger13 Being stolen may not be so bad. You could blame someone else for the stamps.

But I think even if lost you are still required to report it to police.

 

Well there you go, according to this guy there is nothing we can do, we are basically all xxxxxxx.  Maybe he is right.  Maybe their computer system is "State of the Art" and losing your passport is a waste of time. They will catch you anyway.

Maybe he is right, I have no idea. Im still interested in finding solutions rather than throwing in the towel.

Has anyone actually tried just turning up at their Embassy with their passport and ask to see a senior person there and explain the situation honestly and ask for advice. I am probably naive , and may very well be flamed extensively for this idea but I was under the impression that the idea of an embassy was to provide assistance to its expats when in time of need.  I mean if anyone is going to understand the situation and know the inside info on all this it should be our embassies.

Replies and thoughts on this idea would be appreciated.

[bangkokblue]

twentyfourhours+7

Am i right to assume your posting has the roots of farang sentiment. If correct, then you have failed to impress. Painting such a picture at this time can only but add more salt to the wound of your's also countrymen. Most are aware of the thai system of things not too dissimilar from where are forefathers started !(no offence all round) but in many ways far superior i'd say or why should so many choose to live in the LOS 'Freedom' maybe. I consider myself patriotic to the extreme but except that all things must pass through the test of time. I'm not a betting man so i'll just have to put my faith in a more favourable allround outcome. May the good lord Buddha prove me right.

[scooter]

r.e. Lonely Planet. I am quite sure LP has some disclaimer regarding any information given, and am sure they have probably also written that the onus is on the traveller to check all local current visa requirements and laws. So I am sure that LP cannot be sued for provising this information.

I pointed out this fact just to show that even such a well known and researched travel guide also thought it was a legal service and therefore provided information for its buyers.

Currently nationalities I know of that have been arrested (personally) include Israeli, Irish & British. Dont know whether they are targeting certain nationalities. I would imagine that there would naturally be less US citizens arrested as there is a much smaller number of them in Thailand than any other nationalities, and most dont stay on long stays here.

Information on going to immigration. If you loose your passport and go to immigration with your new passport, immigration look in their computer for your last known good stamp. No fake stamps will be listed. Therefore you will be required to pay the overstay since your last known good stamps. I know many people who have done this and who had dodgy stamps. Their overstay varied from 1-3 months depending when their last illegally acquired stamp was registered in the immigration system.