From: At Least 77 Injured In Bangkok Clashes

[shawndoc]

This was before the two recent fatalities that has been widely reported in the media.

More details have come out, the two shot were not protesters. They were merchants trying to drive the reds out of their market.

Revised Bangkok Post Article

HOWEVER - the media has reported that no-one died last night - early this morning.

Who to believe?

News takes a while to solidify. Early reports are generally unreliable as some information takes a while to come out, and it also takes time to filter the rumors from the actual reports. This is true in any country reporting on any sort of chaotic event as it happens.

The best bet is to source your news from various outlets, and take any report that occurs within a few hours of an actual event with a grain of salt.

Edited April 14, 2009 by shawndoc

[Grey11]

The army has not learned it lessons. You cannot win an uprising. Neither in the South, neither in Bangkok, neither in the North or North East. The army is big and slow, therefore the protestors can move quickly and strike wherever they want. if they want to disrupt the daily live they can do so. The army clear one crossing they take 4 crossings, when the army moves in, they move out, regroup and take new targets, huge armies have lost that way. There is not other solution than striking a deal which is acceptable for each and everyone.

However, at last a show of strength from a government supposed to be in place for the people. Do you want wishy washy non action or should these people be shown that there IS a law. Seems we complain about No action then complain about the action when it arrives and as to how we could all 'do a better job" We are guests...... observe by all means but armchair pontificators are no help!

It is quite obvious that the red shirts are incited by only one man who is spending all his money in a desparate move to regain what he has cheated from Thai people. It is amazing how little it takes to persuade the red shirts taking the streets, all just to serve his own personal agenda in changing the law in Thailand so that he can walk free in Thailand again and to unfreeze all the money he has extorted during his premiership. It is sad to see that unemployed and deprived people from the North and North East are used for such selfish purpose, and yet destroying Thailand's remaining credibility worth Trillions of Baht just for his own sake. Typically what he has done in the past, give 500 Baht in order to get support from uneducated farmers and taxi drivers. It is time for people to see that what is happening now is only the tip of the iceberg.

[Grey11]

Last night my wife telephoned her brother - university degree in Bangkok - who married an Issan girl some 25 years ago, who also has a degree. They are both school teachers and live in Maha Sarrakham. Like the other 99% in the area, they support Thaksin. He said that when Thaksin was in office the economy was good and now is bad. Fact is, economics (even in Thailand) is global. During the high tech boom - which has now tanked - it didn't matter who was President of the U.S. or PM of Thailand. My brother-in-law is proof of one's environment have a large effect on one's thinking. He has lived amongst the uneducated peasants so long in Issan that he now thinks like them. Thaksin, who is worshipped in Issan, is interested only in destroying the Thai economy so that he can regain power. Sadly, the mobs of red shirts (uneducated peasants) that his people pay, will be the losers as the economy tanks even further.

Force must be used against the mob in order to restore order. It doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks. Those who break the law must pay the price.

[PeaceBlondie]

What a disaster. Thaksin fomented rebellion against a State, and then pretended to be surprised when his unsupervised, underpaid mercenaries got violent. No wonder he only made it to Lt. Colonel in the police. He is a very inept politician, as well. He could take lessons from Violeta Chamorro in Nicaragua, or Corazon Aquino in the Philipines, who both became widows when the government killed their husbands. They knew how to do revolutions, violent and nonviolent.

///Added: better yet, he could take lessons from a lady in Burma, who was orphaned when the government killed her father.

[Bahookie]

Is it good to be spreading rumours about the numbers of protesters hurt etc. Owners might want to be a bit more responsible

[brahmburgers]

CNN this morning had an interview with Thaksin, with some tough questions. He was visibly flustered and a few times took several seconds to respond. Not surprisingly, he didn't remotely answer some questions directly. Instead, after looking dumbstruck for awhile, he went off on some unrelated tangent, spouting lies tailored for all-too-gullible western audiences. The man is at wit's end, twisting and turning, and constantly contradicting himself and at a loss for explaining his many about turns. It's not about Thaksin any more, it's about ragged groups of adrenaline-fueled red shirted punks causing as much havoc as they can. One segment showed a Bangkok resident brusquely pulling a red shirt punk several meters along the pavement by his hair.

I was at the Urapong - Rama VI area earlier today and spoke to different red-shirt supporters on several occasions. They all said the same - that six of their people had been killed by the military in the Din Daeng area of BKK earlier in the day and that the army had taken away the corpses.

This was before the two recent fatalities that has been widely reported in the media.

HOWEVER - the media has reported that no-one died last night - early this morning.

Who to believe? On this - I go with the people I spoke to personally.

They were very obviously up-set and emotional about what had happened last night.

It's incredible that there haven't been more deaths! The police and army have shown commendable restraint. There were more deaths in any one of Thailand small towns - just from drunk songkran revelers with their brains turned off.

[bulmercke]

Is it good to be spreading rumours about the numbers of protesters hurt etc. Owners might want to be a bit more responsible

What!

Where are you comin' from?

Nunerous protesters (red shirts) told me that six people had been shot dead by the military the night before last. (Din Daeng)

You should be reminded that censorship exists in this country - which also extends to english language news outlets operating here -

[bkkjames]

Is it good to be spreading rumours about the numbers of protesters hurt etc. Owners might want to be a bit more responsible

What!

Where are you comin' from?

Nunerous protesters (red shirts) told me that six people had been shot dead by the military the night before last. (Din Daeng)

You should be reminded that censorship exists in this country - which also extends to english language news outlets operating here -

Hmm let's see, protesters told u that 6 were shot and killed? Did the same protesters tell u about the 50 year old and 18 year old that they killed last night? Left that part out did they. Convenient.

[tracer]

So anyways, what does everyone suggest the solution to the problems are? I see fighting and attacking on here but nobody offers a solution. Do we all agree that there is no solution? Or is there a genius around that has one?

i am your man, in fact i have been offering solutions all afternoon

the problem is none of them lead to the return of your man Thaksin so you have not responded

like many armchair protaganists, if it does not suit you just ignore it

i would advise you to watch Thaksin interviewed on CNN

he looked like a bumbling fool.

he is a spent force and after watching that interview anyone who thinks he could run this country again in my opinion is an idiot

Sorry to ask, but is that interview somewhere on Internet??

[tracer]

My understanding of Thaksins' rise to wealth (corrections welcomed):

· He was a lowly police officer in the North.

· He opened a PC repair shop as a sideline, and suddenly gets a cell phone company operating license for the Northern part of Thailand, without previous experience to run a cell phone company.

I didnt know he had a computer repairshop but maybe thats where all those messed up second hand IBM pc's came from....

Any idea when that was???

Cellphones: it was set up with an American who got booted out and never got his money back.

· He acquires other cell companies and becomes the cell magnate of Thailand.

· He enters politics.

· He sells his cell phone company to Singaporean interests to avoid and sales tax in Thailand.

And to really cheat his partner

· He gets pinned for some real estate deals (along with his wife), buying undervalued Government land, and immediately re-selling to commercial developers for a huge profit (while in office as Prime Minister).

Well, from what I heard he has so many properties he likely needs a staff just to keep track of them...

· He flees country, two steps ahead of the Jailer.

Thats why they let him go...

· He has a vast number of assets seized by the Thai government.

He has much more money and property in and outside Thailand..

[phetpeter]

The BBC and CNN, Do you know what a blank looks like? where they loading M16? or what. The soldiers wearing white tags, are using what??? BLANKS! Sure some are armed with live ammo. Who knows what the stupid red shirts idiots will do next, what if one of them really does try to light a gas cyclinder. what you gonna do? fire a blank at him?

But it is typical of BBC, CNN and SKY to milk a story, make up a story and have been known to pay to stage a story. Funny thay only show that clip eh?

it shoot blank people, make allot of sound, but it's blank.

The BBC and CNN have shown close up footage of soldiers loading their magazines - they were definately not blanks.

[phetpeter]

First it was a female being pulled by her hair, second, it was by another red shirt. Because she was letting a mouth run off, and was nano seconds away from getting a heavy slap or two!

Notice a friend took of her top too? amazing what they will do after a few drinks!

Funny how Takesin's family flew out of the country before all this! 'cause he knows if it fails which it will, they will be coming for him and his family too!

He doesn't give ashit about about the working class!

CNN this morning had an interview with Thaksin, with some tough questions. He was visibly flustered and a few times took several seconds to respond. Not surprisingly, he didn't remotely answer some questions directly. Instead, after looking dumbstruck for awhile, he went off on some unrelated tangent, spouting lies tailored for all-too-gullible western audiences. The man is at wit's end, twisting and turning, and constantly contradicting himself and at a loss for explaining his many about turns. It's not about Thaksin any more, it's about ragged groups of adrenaline-fueled red shirted punks causing as much havoc as they can. One segment showed a Bangkok resident brusquely pulling a red shirt punk several meters along the pavement by his hair.

I was at the Urapong - Rama VI area earlier today and spoke to different red-shirt supporters on several occasions. They all said the same - that six of their people had been killed by the military in the Din Daeng area of BKK earlier in the day and that the army had taken away the corpses.

This was before the two recent fatalities that has been widely reported in the media.

HOWEVER - the media has reported that no-one died last night - early this morning.

Who to believe? On this - I go with the people I spoke to personally.

They were very obviously up-set and emotional about what had happened last night.

It's incredible that there haven't been more deaths! The police and army have shown commendable restraint. There were more deaths in any one of Thailand small towns - just from drunk songkran revelers with their brains turned off.

[Johpa]

It would appear to me that many people are missing the point about these red shirt protestors they are being played by Taksin who wants any government that is in power overthrown if they are not going to grant him an amnesty and allow him to return to Thailand so that he can release the multi millions of baht that are frozen plus all his other assets when this is achieved he will be off into the great blue yonder never to be heard of again then maybe we will have a democratic election and government to follow.

Or maybe the point is that Thaksin, despite being as corrupt as his adversaries, understands democracy better than does the old guard and that in the end, the vote of one Isaan resident is equal to the vote of one middle class Bangkok resident. And since there are more poor voters than middle class voters, and most of those poor voters are, contrary to the imaginations of the Bangkok elite quite literate and fairly well informed, you had better take their desires and aspirations into account in order to win the popular vote.

[samgrowth]

Last night my wife telephoned her brother - university degree in Bangkok - who married an Issan girl some 25 years ago, who also has a degree. They are both school teachers and live in Maha Sarrakham. Like the other 99% in the area, they support Thaksin. He said that when Thaksin was in office the economy was good and now is bad. Fact is, economics (even in Thailand) is global. During the high tech boom - which has now tanked - it didn't matter who was President of the U.S. or PM of Thailand. My brother-in-law is proof of one's environment have a large effect on one's thinking. He has lived amongst the uneducated peasants so long in Issan that he now thinks like them. Thaksin, who is worshipped in Issan, is interested only in destroying the Thai economy so that he can regain power. Sadly, the mobs of red shirts (uneducated peasants) that his people pay, will be the losers as the economy tanks even further.

Force must be used against the mob in order to restore order. It doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks. Those who break the law must pay the price.

I translate your theory as:

It doesn't matter who is the head of state. It could be a monkey. If the golbal economy is good, so will Thailand.

[samgrowth]

I also saw the clip of the army loading the bullets. I do not have a recoding device, so I cannot reply. Anyone have access to a reply of the clip? It could be posted here so all of us as see clearly what kind of bullet head, before we argue further.

However it is obvious (to me at least), that 95% of the shooting capturetured aim up. 5% aim horizontally & FIRE. So I would discount that army claim that they ONLY shoot up.

[tracer]

When the next round of elections come in to view, they can campaign and canvas mightily, and try to get their chosen candidate(s) elected.

Sounds great. So what happens when there's another coup, or the military appointed judiciary remove those elected MPs for whatever reason they can; hosting a cooking show or buying votes for example, or the other paramilitary mob that wears yellow takes over the airports again because they didn't like the results?

Back to square one?

Doesnt matter as they will vote for the one who gives them most money...

[madi]

When the next round of elections come in to view, they can campaign and canvas mightily, and try to get their chosen candidate(s) elected.

Sounds great. So what happens when there's another coup, or the military appointed judiciary remove those elected MPs for whatever reason they can; hosting a cooking show or buying votes for example, or the other paramilitary mob that wears yellow takes over the airports again because they didn't like the results?

Back to square one?

Doesn't matter as they will vote for the one who gives them most money...

So why it that the Yellows, and after all their backers are far richer than even Thaksin, cannot win an election up North?

Just give money.

Maybe there is more to it then that but I do like your negative view of the way things go here.

[h90]

When the next round of elections come in to view, they can campaign and canvas mightily, and try to get their chosen candidate(s) elected.

Sounds great. So what happens when there's another coup, or the military appointed judiciary remove those elected MPs for whatever reason they can; hosting a cooking show or buying votes for example, or the other paramilitary mob that wears yellow takes over the airports again because they didn't like the results?

Back to square one?

Doesn't matter as they will vote for the one who gives them most money...

So why it that the Yellows, and after all their backers are far richer than even Thaksin, cannot win an election up North?

Just give money.

Maybe there is more to it then that but I do like your negative view of the way things go here.

Yellows aren't a party and don't run for elections....

If you have any evidence that the Democrats did massive vote buying than please show it.

[samgrowth]

Yellows aren't a party and don't run for elections....

If you have any evidence that the Democrats did massive vote buying than please show it.

PAD is saying that they will set up a party soon. Want a link? I think you are smart enough to google yourself.

[Foggy Bottom]

there are only about 10,000 red shirts most of the time other than the first day, and a mere 2,000 of them completely rooted the conference in Pattaya.

yesterday, they had no problem completely preventing people from going home etc, and they will and do physically intimidate motorists trying to merely go about their business - I personally was threatened yesterday, apparently me trying to go home is in some way a massive afforont to some fight for democracy.

Since basically by the looks of them these are not exactly a highly educated group, few probably actually pay tax, few seem that they are in gainful employment and a fair few seem to think they can break the law, well then they must be prepared to deal with the consequences.

This force is justified, and probably what should ahve been done at the airport; by letting the yellow shirts get away with stuff, now the red shirts have gone even further; what we saw on the news shows they are thugs and therefore deserve to be treated with the respect that a foot ball thugs gets.

Well, live rounds are not generally used on football hooligans. It's clear that the police and army back who they want to and come out when they feel it necessary. We are all aware who they back.They're happy when they get their version of democracy. Either way, red, yellow or whatever colour, the country needs a force that can deal with civil unrest. Live rounds are not necessaryfor crowd control. Water cannons and rubber bullets are used elsewhere in the world. If these had been used on the PAD earlier in their campaign of civil unrest, then we wouldn't have had the situation that we have today. They got away with it for weeks and there was no action taken when they effectively brought Thailand's transport system to a stand still. This should simply not be allowed to happen.

How would you know if they were live rounds or not? Blanks sound just the same when fired into the air! Firing a few bursts into the air is pretty standard riot control stuff. Gets attention. The government side has stated that 4 soldiers were shot and wounded. Did they shoot each other?

OK - simple lesson for you

From the televised news footage - observe closely the soldiers who were actually firing - they are the ones with puffs of smoke coming from the business end of their weapons - two things stand out ...

1 - there was zero recoil on the fired weapons (and several were firing with only one hand on the weapon) all of the televised ones were pointed between 30 and 45 degrees into the air at the time they fired. This lack of recoil (even when fired one handed) indicated that blank ammunition was in use.

2 - ALL of the troops who fired had light coloured ribbons tied to their left-shoulder epaulette - this is a common training exercise type marker to indicate blank-ammunition armed troops with authority to fire at will - even the British military uses similar (though usually not as obvious) markers so that distaff (umpires) know who is allowed and likely to make their weapon go "Bang". Watching the news broadcasts closely, I did not see one soldier without an epaulette ribbon fire their weapon - that could mean either they had lethal ammunition in it, or they were without ammunition.

The termed "armed" (in British forces, including the police) means only that a weapon has been issued and is carried - it does not indicate if ammunition is also carried or loaded - in fact, standard written orders for guards (for example) are divided into two sections, orders for armed guards WITH and WITHOUT ammunition.

None of the above however precludes the possibility of the Thai soldiers having unauthorised lethal ammunition in their possession (e.g. spare magazine), nor precludes that some of them may have been disposed to make use of it if they felt it necessary.

From what I saw on TV, I saw no evidence of aiming into the crowds (even as a warning gesture) nor any obviously bullet wounded casualties in the coverage from the hospitals - that does not mean such things did not happen, only that available evidence indicates that it did not.

As one poster mentioned, the reds are not making media capital out of displaying shot protestors - this indicates also that none were shot. Compare that to the aftermath of the attack on the PM's car with the security guy being paraded on the reds stage.

Gaz

[Oberkommando]

there are only about 10,000 red shirts most of the time other than the first day, and a mere 2,000 of them completely rooted the conference in Pattaya.

yesterday, they had no problem completely preventing people from going home etc, and they will and do physically intimidate motorists trying to merely go about their business - I personally was threatened yesterday, apparently me trying to go home is in some way a massive afforont to some fight for democracy.

Since basically by the looks of them these are not exactly a highly educated group, few probably actually pay tax, few seem that they are in gainful employment and a fair few seem to think they can break the law, well then they must be prepared to deal with the consequences.

This force is justified, and probably what should ahve been done at the airport; by letting the yellow shirts get away with stuff, now the red shirts have gone even further; what we saw on the news shows they are thugs and therefore deserve to be treated with the respect that a foot ball thugs gets.

Well, live rounds are not generally used on football hooligans. It's clear that the police and army back who they want to and come out when they feel it necessary. We are all aware who they back.They're happy when they get their version of democracy. Either way, red, yellow or whatever colour, the country needs a force that can deal with civil unrest. Live rounds are not necessaryfor crowd control. Water cannons and rubber bullets are used elsewhere in the world. If these had been used on the PAD earlier in their campaign of civil unrest, then we wouldn't have had the situation that we have today. They got away with it for weeks and there was no action taken when they effectively brought Thailand's transport system to a stand still. This should simply not be allowed to happen.

How would you know if they were live rounds or not? Blanks sound just the same when fired into the air! Firing a few bursts into the air is pretty standard riot control stuff. Gets attention. The government side has stated that 4 soldiers were shot and wounded. Did they shoot each other?

OK - simple lesson for you

From the televised news footage - observe closely the soldiers who were actually firing - they are the ones with puffs of smoke coming from the business end of their weapons - two things stand out ...

1 - there was zero recoil on the fired weapons (and several were firing with only one hand on the weapon) all of the televised ones were pointed between 30 and 45 degrees into the air at the time they fired. This lack of recoil (even when fired one handed) indicated that blank ammunition was in use.

2 - ALL of the troops who fired had light coloured ribbons tied to their left-shoulder epaulette - this is a common training exercise type marker to indicate blank-ammunition armed troops with authority to fire at will - even the British military uses similar (though usually not as obvious) markers so that distaff (umpires) know who is allowed and likely to make their weapon go "Bang". Watching the news broadcasts closely, I did not see one soldier without an epaulette ribbon fire their weapon - that could mean either they had lethal ammunition in it, or they were without ammunition.

The termed "armed" (in British forces, including the police) means only that a weapon has been issued and is carried - it does not indicate if ammunition is also carried or loaded - in fact, standard written orders for guards (for example) are divided into two sections, orders for armed guards WITH and WITHOUT ammunition.

None of the above however precludes the possibility of the Thai soldiers having unauthorised lethal ammunition in their possession (e.g. spare magazine), nor precludes that some of them may have been disposed to make use of it if they felt it necessary.

From what I saw on TV, I saw no evidence of aiming into the crowds (even as a warning gesture) nor any obviously bullet wounded casualties in the coverage from the hospitals - that does not mean such things did not happen, only that available evidence indicates that it did not.

As one poster mentioned, the reds are not making media capital out of displaying shot protestors - this indicates also that none were shot. Compare that to the aftermath of the attack on the PM's car with the security guy being paraded on the reds stage.

Gaz

Simple lesson for you. M16's cannot cycle ammo without a Blank firing adaptor fitted to the muzzle.

[Naam]

there was zero recoil on the fired weapons (and several were firing with only one hand on the weapon) all of the televised ones were pointed between 30 and 45 degrees into the air at the time they fired. This lack of recoil (even when fired one handed) indicated that blank ammunition was in use.

wrong! i've seen several times the weapon clearly recoil when soldiers fired in the air.

Simple lesson for you. M16's cannot cycle ammo without a Blank firing adaptor fitted to the muzzle.

correct! but from a distance it is very difficult to differentiate between this adapter and the usual add-on which splits and therefore reduces the muzzle flash.

[phetpeter]

You are quite correct, any semi needs an plug to activite the reload system. Can you honestly say from the TV footage that the soldiers had fired more than one round each. 100 soldiers firing one round each would sound good, a manual reload is only a quick pull of the lever at the rear of the weapon.(M16) and could be done anytime while running forward. and from what I saw on the TV footage there wasn't many spent rounds on the ground to show a hundred troopers firing more then one round each not a full mag, thats for sure.

You try running in 40 degree heat, and think you see a recoil, No, If it had a recoil a M16 doesn't have any oblivious recoil when the troopers is standing or running, firing one handed or not! Plus the sound isn't right for a Live round! Try the old british Army SLR 7.62, or Lee enfield .303 if you wanna see a recoil!

there was zero recoil on the fired weapons (and several were firing with only one hand on the weapon) all of the televised ones were pointed between 30 and 45 degrees into the air at the time they fired. This lack of recoil (even when fired one handed) indicated that blank ammunition was in use.

wrong! i've seen several times the weapon clearly recoil when soldiers fired in the air.

Simple lesson for you. M16's cannot cycle ammo without a Blank firing adaptor fitted to the muzzle.

correct! but from a distance it is very difficult to differentiate between this adapter and the usual add-on which splits and therefore reduces the muzzle flash.

[Foggy Bottom]

OK - simple lesson for you

From the televised news footage - observe closely the soldiers who were actually firing - they are the ones with puffs of smoke coming from the business end of their weapons - two things stand out ...

1 - there was zero recoil on the fired weapons (and several were firing with only one hand on the weapon) all of the televised ones were pointed between 30 and 45 degrees into the air at the time they fired. This lack of recoil (even when fired one handed) indicated that blank ammunition was in use.

2 - ALL of the troops who fired had light coloured ribbons tied to their left-shoulder epaulette - this is a common training exercise type marker to indicate blank-ammunition armed troops with authority to fire at will - even the British military uses similar (though usually not as obvious) markers so that distaff (umpires) know who is allowed and likely to make their weapon go "Bang". Watching the news broadcasts closely, I did not see one soldier without an epaulette ribbon fire their weapon - that could mean either they had lethal ammunition in it, or they were without ammunition.

The termed "armed" (in British forces, including the police) means only that a weapon has been issued and is carried - it does not indicate if ammunition is also carried or loaded - in fact, standard written orders for guards (for example) are divided into two sections, orders for armed guards WITH and WITHOUT ammunition.

None of the above however precludes the possibility of the Thai soldiers having unauthorised lethal ammunition in their possession (e.g. spare magazine), nor precludes that some of them may have been disposed to make use of it if they felt it necessary.

From what I saw on TV, I saw no evidence of aiming into the crowds (even as a warning gesture) nor any obviously bullet wounded casualties in the coverage from the hospitals - that does not mean such things did not happen, only that available evidence indicates that it did not.

As one poster mentioned, the reds are not making media capital out of displaying shot protestors - this indicates also that none were shot. Compare that to the aftermath of the attack on the PM's car with the security guy being paraded on the reds stage.

Gaz

Simple lesson for you. M16's cannot cycle ammo without a Blank firing adaptor fitted to the muzzle.

Strange - the one I used in Central America did so without any problem at all.

I think you may be thinking of the far heavier 7.62mm SLR - it would not self load from blanks without the BFA, and sometimes would be a pig about doing it even with live ammunition - which is why it had a gas capture adjustment ring near the fore-sight. If that was set to zero (i.e. maximum recycle back to the self-loading piston) it could sometimes be made to self-reload from blanks if it was a new weapon with no wear on the gas piston.

[Oberkommando]

Strange - the one I used in Central America did so without any problem at all.

I think you may be thinking of the far heavier 7.62mm SLR - it would not self load from blanks without the BFA, and sometimes would be a pig about doing it even with live ammunition - which is why it had a gas capture adjustment ring near the fore-sight. If that was set to zero (i.e. maximum recycle back to the self-loading piston) it could sometimes be made to self-reload from blanks if it was a new weapon with no wear on the gas piston.

M16 cannot cycle the ammo when firing blanks without an blank firing adaptor fitted.

I am not thinking of any other weapon, I am very familiar with the M16 and variants.

[h90]

Strange - the one I used in Central America did so without any problem at all.

I think you may be thinking of the far heavier 7.62mm SLR - it would not self load from blanks without the BFA, and sometimes would be a pig about doing it even with live ammunition - which is why it had a gas capture adjustment ring near the fore-sight. If that was set to zero (i.e. maximum recycle back to the self-loading piston) it could sometimes be made to self-reload from blanks if it was a new weapon with no wear on the gas piston.

M16 cannot cycle the ammo when firing blanks without an blank firing adaptor fitted.

I am not thinking of any other weapon, I am very familiar with the M16 and variants.

and how can you know if one is fitted??

you wouldn't see on pictures. you just need a screw with a hole inside.

But that is anyhow a pointless discussion because whatever they did, they didn't kill anyone so where is the problem?

[phetpeter]

Strange - the one I used in Central America did so without any problem at all.

I think you may be thinking of the far heavier 7.62mm SLR - it would not self load from blanks without the BFA, and sometimes would be a pig about doing it even with live ammunition - which is why it had a gas capture adjustment ring near the fore-sight. If that was set to zero (i.e. maximum recycle back to the self-loading piston) it could sometimes be made to self-reload from blanks if it was a new weapon with no wear on the gas piston.

M16 cannot cycle the ammo when firing blanks without an blank firing adaptor fitted.

I am not thinking of any other weapon, I am very familiar with the M16 and variants.

and how can you know if one is fitted??

you wouldn't see on pictures. you just need a screw with a hole inside.

But that is anyhow a pointless discussion because whatever they did, they didn't kill anyone so where is the problem?

Well, thats the point isn't? All discussions on the forum's are pointless aren't they? They are forums for people to discuss views and pointless facts.

It is for people like you to have a say,' cause its cheaper then going out and doin' things!

[phetpeter]

It has just occurred to me why Absihit won against the reds!

Its because he's British.

And the British are great at winning

[angiud]

When I was on duty in Italy, we can fire with assault rifle Beretta AR70, with blank rounds without any special suppressor, but usually no more than 3-5 a time, after must manually recharge.

[h90]

When I was on duty in Italy, we can fire with assault rifle Beretta AR70, with blank rounds without any special suppressor, but usually no more than 3-5 a time, after must manually recharge.

I found the reason! They didn't use M-16

The picture shows clearly different guns which I couldn't identify yet:

http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews...D=9520000042089