From: At Least 77 Injured In Bangkok Clashes

[Old Man River]

The link below is to Shawn Crispin's article on our recent events:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/KD15Ae03.html

[wolf5370]

...

Try the old british Army SLR 7.62, or Lee enfield .303 if you wanna see a recoil!

...

I used to shoot the old Lee Enfields in competition for the Navy when I was a teenager (Cadet). This was the Mark VIII with the .22 conversion (for target shooting). Even as a 22 it had a fair kick on it. Used to shoot Martini's at the same time, a lot smoother. When I was 15 I was given the treat of pulling the trigger on a fixed tripod mounted GPMG, even bolted to the floor the bl**dy thing threw me all over the place!!! Both the Martini and the LE Mk8 took mags, but were not automatic, so had to be cocked (via bolt) each time. Heard about one guy who lost the tip of his little finger using a careless grip and covering the shell eject - comes out at a fair speed!

Later in life I used SA80's the preferred UK SLR - nice rifle.

Anyway, back to Red Vs Yellow....

Edited April 14, 2009 by wolf5370

[worthingmike]

The Foreign Office are recommending to the British public not to travel to Thailand. I have relatives living in Bangkok and there is no problem or danger. Clearly the British Government want you to stay at home and spend your money in Brighton or Blackpool. Only they do not warn of the street and knife crime in these two places. When are we going to stop scar mongering?

I would be willing take the place of anyone who is frightened to go to Thailand and take my three children with me, it's SAFE as SAFE.

Travellers returning from Thailand say it’s a carnival atmosphere.

Two dead I hear you say; bet there were more deaths in England in the past week and what about the G20 in London there was a death and riots and criminal damage there.

What I am saying is anywhere is scary if you look deep. Visit Thailand they need tourism and they have the greatest smile and respect for tourists.

[wolf5370]

The Foreign Office are recommending to the British public not to travel to Thailand. I have relatives living in Bangkok and there is no problem or danger. Clearly the British Government want you to stay at home and spend your money in Brighton or Blackpool. Only they do not warn of the street and knife crime in these two places. When are we going to stop scar mongering?

I would be willing take the place of anyone who is frightened to go to Thailand and take my three children with me, it's SAFE as SAFE.

Travellers returning from Thailand say it's a carnival atmosphere.

Two dead I hear you say; bet there were more deaths in England in the past week and what about the G20 in London there was a death and riots and criminal damage there.

What I am saying is anywhere is scary if you look deep. Visit Thailand they need tourism and they have the greatest smile and respect for tourists.

Yes, just heard this on the BBC. http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-li...ceania/thailand

China have released the same stay away statement: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-04...ent_7673506.htm

[Seizhin]

Erm... A friend who was in red mob just said that the people who were 'sent' home by the militant were brought to military camp and profiled before being sent to the nearby stations.

Anyone can confirm this?

[capt_canada42]

When the next round of elections come in to view, they can campaign and canvas mightily, and try to get their chosen candidate(s) elected.

Sounds great. So what happens when there's another coup, or the military appointed judiciary remove those elected MPs for whatever reason they can; hosting a cooking show or buying votes for example, or the other paramilitary mob that wears yellow takes over the airports again because they didn't like the results?

Back to square one?

Doesnt matter as they will vote for the one who gives them most money...

Well don't you take the girls out because they take your money?

[phetpeter]

Hahaha, yes! They are standard issuse to new Thai recuits, who have been known to look down the barrel to see wot's happin when you pull the trigger thing!

When I was on duty in Italy, we can fire with assault rifle Beretta AR70, with blank rounds without any special suppressor, but usually no more than 3-5 a time, after must manually recharge.

I found the reason! They didn't use M-16

The picture shows clearly different guns which I couldn't identify yet:

http://www.manager.co.th/Politics/ViewNews...D=9520000042089

[tracer]

Well don't you take the girls out because they take your money?

I have lived here about 26 years and believe me with 2 daughters and 2 sons it would be rather silly.

Anybody who wants to really know, go next time with elections to isan.... Its not where I live but I have many friends from there...

Anyway, it is not the money.

[danmtl]

The army has not learned it lessons. You cannot win an uprising. Neither in the South, neither in Bangkok, neither in the North or North East. The army is big and slow, therefore the protestors can move quickly and strike wherever they want. if they want to disrupt the daily live they can do so. The army clear one crossing they take 4 crossings, when the army moves in, they move out, regroup and take new targets, huge armies have lost that way. There is not other solution than striking a deal which is acceptable for each and everyone.

However, at last a show of strength from a government supposed to be in place for the people. Do you want wishy washy non action or should these people be shown that there IS a law. Seems we complain about No action then complain about the action when it arrives and as to how we could all 'do a better job" We are guests...... observe by all means but armchair pontificators are no help!

yep, as guest we should observed history in the making. i feel for the people and love thailand. I was born and raise here and my mom is thai. i feel like a citizen here eventhough i'm an american. but some one need to take a step and it does not matter which road they take. they government got to do something quick. take innocent lives or step down.

one thing i know for sure is "there will be blood" . Should i be the first to predict a "Bloody Songkarn" ?

sorry, if i sound like a heart less butt hole. but reality is reality. but when you have 2 group if people who are arm with weapon ( the red and the army) in such close proximity, someone will probaly loose their nurve and unintentionally pull a trigger. once a fire is shot, all hel_l brake loose . war has began that way.

The Army is in control easy to see they protected the Yellow shirt and even put a hospital during the insurgency , did they show up during 3 weeks of courde not i sure hope the red shirt are going all the way with they uprising after all it is time the army is shown the door otherwidse there will never been any democracy in Thailand this is what Taksin was trying to do .

[shawndoc]

The Army is in control easy to see they protected the Yellow shirt

Really? How was the army protecting the PAD? I seem to remember limbs getting blown off PAD members when the police used the faulty tear gas on the PAD. I didn't see any army protecting them.

The reason the army got involved this time was because the police refused to do anything against the reds. At least during the PAD demonstrations, the police pretended to try and stop the yellows.

there will never been any democracy in Thailand this is what Taksin was trying to do .

Hmmm. No Democracy eh? Guess the elections and the working parliament are just a figment of my imagination.

Too bad some parties (PTP) got caught buying votes and got thrown out. If only they'd been allowed to get away with it. Because its only a "Democracy" when the party you support is in power, and it doesn't matter how they got there eh?

Edited April 15, 2009 by shawndoc

[Robby nz]

Doctors on Tv are saying the gunshot wounds they are treating are either handgun, about 9mm or shot.

This may be the answer http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4413469

[chrislarsson]

When the next round of elections come in to view, they can campaign and canvas mightily, and try to get their chosen candidate(s) elected.

Sounds great. So what happens when there's another coup, or the military appointed judiciary remove those elected MPs for whatever reason they can; hosting a cooking show or buying votes for example, or the other paramilitary mob that wears yellow takes over the airports again because they didn't like the results?

Back to square one?

Doesnt matter as they will vote for the one who gives them most money...

It's this kind of thinking that are breeding more anger. After these demonstrations, it's pretty clear that people are not doing this for money, but for what they believe is just. How can this be so difficult to understand.

[h90]

Yellows aren't a party and don't run for elections....

If you have any evidence that the Democrats did massive vote buying than please show it.

PAD is saying that they will set up a party soon. Want a link? I think you are smart enough to google yourself.

that they might set up a party....What means they aren't a party at the moment, which is what I wrote

[Chaimai]

\

It's this kind of thinking that are breeding more anger. After these demonstrations, it's pretty clear that people are not doing this for money, but for what they believe is just. How can this be so difficult to understand.

If you believe that people have not been paid to protest you are living on a different planet - probably Uranus.

As far as elections are concerned my limited evidence suggests that many Thais will accept money from both sides and then vote for the person they like. I am not sure that the respective manifestos are heavily debated.

[chrislarsson]

\

It's this kind of thinking that are breeding more anger. After these demonstrations, it's pretty clear that people are not doing this for money, but for what they believe is just. How can this be so difficult to understand.

If you believe that people have not been paid to protest you are living on a different planet - probably Uranus.

As far as elections are concerned my limited evidence suggests that many Thais will accept money from both sides and then vote for the person they like. I am not sure that the respective manifestos are heavily debated.

I didn't say they are not receiving money. What I say is that they are protesting because what they believe in...not because of the money.

[pete_r]

There doesn't seem to be much pictures from the crackdown up here yet, so here goes (shamelessly nicked from a Thai language website).

"No live bullets used" & "Shooting in the air" (for once it's not a sticker on that taxi door!)

"Red cross arm band, gun in the hand"

Another red cross with gun, and shootings in the air.

[TAWP]

Red cross armband on the soldier only means he is the groups medic, he is still allowed to carry firearms. Soldiers always do.

The only thing is the other way around - anyone unarmed and wearing a red cross [and supposedly engaging in rescuing anyone, even a foe] is an invalid target, according to the Geneva Convention.

[lannarebirth]

There doesn't seem to be much pictures from the crackdown up here yet, so here goes (shamelessly nicked from a Thai language website).

"No live bullets used" & "Shooting in the air" (for once it's not a sticker on that taxi door!)

"Red cross arm band, gun in the hand"

Another red cross with gun, and shootings in the air.

Well, I for one, wouldn't have believed there could have been so little violence given the forces arrayed on both sides. Thanks for visual confirmation.

[teddy_bare]

So what was the final death toll??

I am seeing 2 in sources outside of Thailand.

Thai friends are saying 30, with evidence on Camfrog. I have not checked as you have to download the program.

Anyone got any other numbers?

2-30 deaths for a so called revolution seems fairly acceptable when compared to deaths occurring from drunk driving, nightclub/boat/bus safety.

My friends seem to blame the soldiers and not the guys throwing petrol bombs, ramming bus into people, and killing market stall holders.

Very selective minds.

[Seizhin]

There doesn't seem to be much pictures from the crackdown up here yet, so here goes (shamelessly nicked from a Thai language website).

"No live bullets used" & "Shooting in the air" (for once it's not a sticker on that taxi door!)

"Red cross arm band, gun in the hand"

Another red cross with gun, and shootings in the air.

Woa, nice pictures.

I know something was wrong as there were no pictures of red casualties on TV, now I wonder why they arent airing this.

So much for shooting with rubber bullet and shooting into the air.

[TAWP]

Not sure if you deliberately are posting the wrong things to try to build a straw-man argument...but anyway, iirc no rubber bullets has been said to be used, only blank and live ammo.

We see zero (ZERO) dead people in those images. We see 2(?) wounded people.

This is proof of a slaughter?

[Seizhin]

Not sure if you deliberately are posting the wrong things to try to build a straw-man argument...but anyway, iirc no rubber bullets has been said to be used, only blank and live ammo.

We see zero (ZERO) dead people in those images. We see 2(?) wounded people.

This is proof of a slaughter?

I dont think anyone in this forum is dumb enough to start a straw-man argument, we're all educated people after all. Change my "rubber bullet" to "blank ammo" then, my mistake on that.

If you reread my post, never did I said anyone died, nor was it a slaughter, I'm more interested of the pictures of the casualties that night, as those are the first set of pictures I've seen.

Unlike the dispersion on the yellow, these pictures are somewhat harder to find, I wonder why.

[pete_r]

Red cross armband on the soldier only means he is the groups medic, he is still allowed to carry firearms. Soldiers always do.

Not during the PAD protests last year, they didn't.

A quote from the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7998243.stm

Its (the army) decision to suppress these protesters, when it did nothing about the equally damaging actions of the yellow-shirted People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) last year, makes a mockery of its claim to be a neutral force.

[pete_r]

Not sure if you deliberately are posting the wrong things to try to build a straw-man argument...but anyway, iirc no rubber bullets has been said to be used, only blank and live ammo.

We see zero (ZERO) dead people in those images. We see 2(?) wounded people.

This is proof of a slaughter?

I dont think anyone in this forum is dumb enough to start a straw-man argument, we're all educated people after all. Change my "rubber bullet" to "blank ammo" then, my mistake on that.

If you reread my post, never did I said anyone died, nor was it a slaughter, I'm more interested of the pictures of the casualties that night, as those are the first set of pictures I've seen.

Unlike the dispersion on the yellow, these pictures are somewhat harder to find, I wonder why.

And here lies the problem: The official media are not showing the violence of the last few days, trying to minimize it or even negate it. Why?

[phetpeter]

The Army is in control easy to see they protected the Yellow shirt

Really? How was the army protecting the PAD? I seem to remember limbs getting blown off PAD members when the police used the faulty tear gas on the PAD. I didn't see any army protecting them.

The reason the army got involved this time was because the police refused to do anything against the reds. At least during the PAD demonstrations, the police pretended to try and stop the yellows.

there will never been any democracy in Thailand this is what Taksin was trying to do .

Hmmm. No Democracy eh? Guess the elections and the working parliament are just a figment of my imagination.

Too bad some parties (PTP) got caught buying votes and got thrown out. If only they'd been allowed to get away with it. Because its only a "Democracy" when the party you support is in power, and it doesn't matter how they got there eh?

The reason why the army was everywhere is because the police can't stomach doing their job if it involves getting off their <deleted> for anything other than collecting cash, eating free food, or if they can fire the guns at anybody. For them to actully break into a sweat, not a chance!

[phetpeter]

There doesn't seem to be much pictures from the crackdown up here yet, so here goes (shamelessly nicked from a Thai language website).

"No live bullets used" & "Shooting in the air" (for once it's not a sticker on that taxi door!)

"Red cross arm band, gun in the hand"

Another red cross with gun, and shootings in the air.

5 Cs containers, and about 100 shell casings, I rest me case!

[animatic]

Not sure if you deliberately are posting the wrong things to try to build a straw-man argument...but anyway, iirc no rubber bullets has been said to be used, only blank and live ammo.

We see zero (ZERO) dead people in those images. We see 2(?) wounded people.

This is proof of a slaughter?

I dont think anyone in this forum is dumb enough to start a straw-man argument, we're all educated people after all. Change my "rubber bullet" to "blank ammo" then, my mistake on that.

If you reread my post, never did I said anyone died, nor was it a slaughter, I'm more interested of the pictures of the casualties that night, as those are the first set of pictures I've seen.

Unlike the dispersion on the yellow, these pictures are somewhat harder to find, I wonder why.

I wouldn't bet the farm on that premis....

[animatic]

In the pictures:

I see two bullit holes, which says nothing about WHO made the holes.

I see a street riot that had to be brought under control.

As irrational zealots caused chaos.

I see military personnel in in standard stances with standard weapons.

But nothing that shows that they are massacring people.

I see people who believe in something having lost the day and sitting in distress.

I do see some red shirts injured in non specific ways.

But not a thing about; where or when, nor in what manner, nor by who's hand.

I don't see the alleged abuses being rumored.

But thanks for the pictures.

Edited April 16, 2009 by animatic

[hobbler]

But it's okay for the redshirts to send buses hurtling down the street at the soldiers? They showed restraint! I saw most of this footage on Al Jazeera and it's less impressive when not in still form. Most of the soldiers were just standing around, popping off rounds. If they'd really been firing into the crowd there would be a lot more casualties and the international camera crews definitely would have caught it.

I'm with animatic on this one.

Edited April 16, 2009 by hobbler

[Scott]

It is seldom pleasant to see the aftermath of military involvement in anything. But generally the military isn't called in unless a situation is pretty much out of control already. Regardless of who you side with, it appears that the military did a reasonably good job. It doesn't take much to get those boys flustered and with big guns they can create quite a commotion with a lot of innocent folks hurt.

It is sad that they didn't come out when the yellow shirts were there and send them home as well.

I think this whole thing could have been avoided had the generals followed orders in the first place.