Home Office A Bunch Of Retarded Monkeys

[giruz]

Hi,

This is the story:

1) April 2008 - GF applies for a new residency card ENDORSED in her passport as current one is not

2) March 2009 - Home Office require further evidence of our relationship

3) 26/03/2009 - We required Passport & existing residency card to be returned as we will travel in May

4) 21/04/2009 - Home Office actioned our request

5) Daily calls to have docs returned

6) Due to travel this afternoon, 20 min ago I finally received the letter from home office...and surprise!! They did not send back the residency card so gf can leave the country but not come back in!!!

Considering that I sent about 1 letter, 3 faxes and I've made at least 2 phone calls a day...they really screwed-up big time!!!!

Home office people....I love you guys!!!

giruzz

Edited May 2, 2009 by giruz

[wasabi]

What is home office?

[Texpat]

I think it's like a smallish computer room, off the living room, where you keep your fax machine, telephone, printers, a calendar and your rolodex. Something like that. Oh, and a small wooden model of a sailing ship.

[phaethon]

"The Home Office is the lead (UK) government department for immigration and passports, drugs policy, counter-terrorism and police."

I think the OP is being a little unfair to monkeys who lack the malice necessary for effective visa mis-handling.

[ubonjoe]

Not all people know what home office means unless you said UK home office. And even then a lot of people would not know.

The UK home office is equal to what the Interior Ministry is here.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Good luck anyway.

[nonthaburial]

what the <deleted> is the op rambling about

[ThaiVisaExpress]

[phaethon]

what the <deleted> is the op rambling about

Nurse! He's strayed out of the biking forum again... Nurse!!

[giruz]

what the <deleted> is the op rambling about

Nurse! He's strayed out of the biking forum again... Nurse!!

I forgot to take my medicines...

Still...I prefer monkeys...

giruzz

[Electra]

My sympathies to the OP.

The irony is of course that your partner did not need to get her residence card endorsed in her new passport. The card in its present format, on a separate sheet I believe, is still a valid document and could have simply been attached to her new passport for all to examine as necessary.

The Home Office has now passed all responsibility for visas and immigration work to the UK Border Agency which has been operating for quite a while now but was officially established on , appropriately enough, the 1st April 2009 as an agency in its own right.

For general information the OP is an Italian resident in the UK with his Thai partner who is exercising her EEA treaty rights. Residence is generally without time limit but in order to facilitate travel, for visa nationals particularly, and as evidence of the right to work etc permission to remain for 5 years in the first instance is issued to the recipient and is known as a Residence Card.

As I understand it, all EEA applications are now dealt with in Liverpool but they are clearly under resourced because delays breaching the EEA regulations are being experienced routinely.

A rose by any other name.......yes, as the OP has discovered, although the name has changed the level of service and performance of staff is as variable as before.

For the benefit of those Americans expressing confusion at the OP and who are too stupid or incapable of reading previous posts by him:

Italy is a small country in Europe.

Liverpool is a city to the northwest of England

EEA means the European Economic Area

The UKBA is a bit like ICE/Homeland Security Department.

Edited May 3, 2009 by Electra

[giruz]

My sympathies to the OP.

The irony is of course that your partner did not need to get her residence card endorsed in her new passport. The card in its present format, on a separate sheet I believe, is still a valid document and could have simply been attached to her new passport for all to examine as necessary.

The Home Office has now passed all responsibility for visas and immigration work to the UK Border Agency which has been operating for quite a while now but was officially established on , appropriately enough, the 1st April 2009 as an agency in its own right.

For general information the OP is an Italian resident in the UK with his Thai partner who is exercising her EEA treaty rights. Residence is generally without time limit but in order to facilitate travel, for visa nationals particularly, and as evidence of the right to work etc permission to remain for 5 years in the first instance is issued to the recipient and is known as a Residence Card.

As I understand it, all EEA applications are now dealt with in Liverpool but they are clearly under resourced because delays breaching the EEA regulations are being experienced routinely.

A rose by any other name.......yes, as the OP has discovered, although the name has changed the level of service and performance of staff is as variable as before.

For the benefit of those Americans expressing confusion at the OP and who are too stupid or incapable of reading previous posts by him:

Italy is a small country in Europe.

Liverpool is a city to the northwest of England

EEA means the European Economic Area

The UKBA is a bit like ICE/Homeland Security Department.

Wow!! I'm impressed :-)

The card is on a separate sheet, it is valid but we had to request another one because we had lots of troubles when travelling within Europe to countries where a visa was not required (e.g. Italy, Holland and Germany)...also, when we tried to book a visa appointment to Japan, USA, France and Spain and the answer we received has been always the same 'no, unless the EEA family member permit is endorsed we cannot issue a visa'

so, we had the luck to get a visa to the UK, but having that visa issued on a separate sheet of paper was kind of not having it as no consulate in London would issued Visas to travel to a third country..we were stuck here, without a chance to travel :-(

Tuesday I'll try to get the residency card back...

giruzz

[Soutpeel]

I personally think the OP is insulting monkeys by comparing them to the employees of the home office..

[harrry]

I thought monkeys had more sense than to live survive in the UK

[samran]

don't worry, you aren't alone.

My mate (Australian ie non-EU national) is living in london married to his wife who is Polish. After years being on a highly skilled migrant permit he decided to save himself 700 pounds and extend his stay based on his marriage to an EU national.

Well, they have had his passport since July 2008. According to the website, apparently they are only upto processing applications made in April 2008. So they'll have his passport for a year! He hasn't been able to travel in the meantime.

And people complain about Thai immigration (inc. me ), which is a model of efficiency next to the home office.

So yes, home office, a bunch you know whats....

[theoldgit]

The UKBA have been subjected to years and years of "efficiency savings" what you and I would call "budget cuts", staff jobs have been cut and at the same time the workload has increased dramatically. There are many good and caring staff employed by the UKBA, but like many large organisations they have their fair share of tos*ers, well probably more than their fair share to be honest. With all the efficiency savings you might ask where the increased visa application fees are going.

They do make mistakes, who doesn't, the problem is that their mistakes can either ruin someones life or allow someone to stay in the UK who clearly shouldn't be there, and yes, these mistakes shouldn't happen.

Just my two satangs worth.

Edited May 5, 2009 by theoldgit

[giruz]

don't worry, you aren't alone.

My mate (Australian ie non-EU national) is living in london married to his wife who is Polish. After years being on a highly skilled migrant permit he decided to save himself 700 pounds and extend his stay based on his marriage to an EU national.

Well, they have had his passport since July 2008. According to the website, apparently they are only upto processing applications made in April 2008. So they'll have his passport for a year! He hasn't been able to travel in the meantime.

And people complain about Thai immigration (inc. me ), which is a model of efficiency next to the home office.

So yes, home office, a bunch you know whats....

Your mate can request the passport back. He needs to send a fax to the 0151-213 1961 and start calling/harassing the home office after 10 working days (not before as they say that you need to wait 10 working days before your request will be processed).

The phone number is 01516725626 then 332 to speak with an operator. There is another 0845 number that does the job but I use the 0151 so I can call from mobile and voip with my inclusive minutes.

You will need heaps of patience as the lines are busy and you won't get into the queue easly...I dial no less than 120 times before getting the line (I use 3 phones to do this quickly)

Good luck! (btw I'm now on hold waiting someone to answer)

giruzz

[Electra]

The UKBA have been subjected to years and years of "efficiency savings" what you and I would call "budget cuts", staff jobs have been cut and at the same time the workload has increased dramatically. There are many good and caring staff employed by the UKBA, but like many large organisations they have their fair share of tos*ers, well probably more than their fair share to be honest. With all the efficiency savings you might ask where the increased visa application fees are going.

They do make mistakes, who doesn't, the problem is that their mistakes can either ruin someones life or allow someone to stay in the UK who clearly shouldn't be there, and yes, these mistakes shouldn't happen.

Just my two satangs worth.

Utter and complete rubbish.

The UKBA, previously UK BIA, previously UKIS, was swamped with money at the end of the comprehensive spending review, started by the Tories in 1997 and concluded in 2000, when the Labour government finally realised that the car accident known as bogus asylum claims had torn a gaping wound in the 1971 Immigration Act and it had to address what other countries had understood years previously i.e.that to do nothing was simply not an option.

The upshot was an exponential increase in staff, budget and investment in technology. Unfortunately, the then management structure, whilst being wise to immigration issues, was unused to management of capital projects and into the vacuum a host of fellow travelling opportunist deadbeat civil servants and ' consultants ' flooded, eager to advance their own careers and agenda which were guaranteed by a Minister, Liam Byrne, so anally retentive that Brown actually thought the prick was talented.

And what has this influx, derived from such august organisations as the DWP, Prison Service and Birmingham City Council, achieved? A simpleton organisation staffed by shiney arsed clerks supervised by superannuated self serving managers chosen out of social need, cronyism and nepotism, rather than anything approximating to talent or experience, who have constructed a bureaucracy in which the only imperative is to ensure ' all the boxes are ticked ', as if anything so complex as immigration law could be

condensed to something as simplistic as that.

Nothing new in this in civil service terms but the extent of corruption, graft and sheer abuse of public funds by a Labour government is.

Never in 30 years of employment as a civil servant in 4 departments have I ever encountered such malfeasance as that perpetrated by this wretched Labour government. What is even more dispiriting is observing the utter rubbish, unemployable practically anywhere else in the world, posing as public servants who are currently benefiting from their patronage.

Shooting one in ten could only be a start.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Electra

[snuggzzz]

I think 'Electra' is a teeny weeny bit upset, now Electra, take a few tablets, just think about your 'Gold Plated Pension'..........

[Electra]

I think 'Electra' is a teeny weeny bit upset, now Electra, take a few tablets, just think about your 'Gold Plated Pension'..........

[theoldgit]

The UKBA have been subjected to years and years of "efficiency savings" what you and I would call "budget cuts", staff jobs have been cut and at the same time the workload has increased dramatically. There are many good and caring staff employed by the UKBA, but like many large organisations they have their fair share of tos*ers, well probably more than their fair share to be honest. With all the efficiency savings you might ask where the increased visa application fees are going.

They do make mistakes, who doesn't, the problem is that their mistakes can either ruin someones life or allow someone to stay in the UK who clearly shouldn't be there, and yes, these mistakes shouldn't happen.

Just my two satangs worth.

Utter and complete rubbish.

The UKBA, previously UK BIA, previously UKIS, was swamped with money at the end of the comprehensive spending review, started by the Tories in 1997 and concluded in 2000, when the Labour government finally realised that the car accident known as bogus asylum claims had torn a gaping wound in the 1971 Immigration Act and it had to address what other countries had understood years previously i.e.that to do nothing was simply not an option.

The upshot was an exponential increase in staff, budget and investment in technology. Unfortunately, the then management structure, whilst being wise to immigration issues, was unused to management of capital projects and into the vacuum a host of fellow travelling opportunist deadbeat civil servants and ' consultants ' flooded, eager to advance their own careers and agenda which were guaranteed by a Minister, Liam Byrne, so anally retentive that Brown actually thought the prick was talented.

And what has this influx, derived from such august organisations as the DWP, Prison Service and Birmingham City Council, achieved? A simpleton organisation staffed by shiney arsed clerks supervised by superannuated self serving managers chosen out of social need, cronyism and nepotism, rather than anything approximating to talent or experience, who have constructed a bureaucracy in which the only imperative is to ensure ' all the boxes are ticked ', as if anything so complex as immigration law could be

condensed to something as simplistic as that.

Nothing new in this in civil service terms but the extent of corruption, graft and sheer abuse of public funds by a Labour government is.

Never in 30 years of employment as a civil servant in 4 departments have I ever encountered such malfeasance as that perpetrated by this wretched Labour government. What is even more dispiriting is observing the utter rubbish, unemployable practically anywhere else in the world, posing as public servants who are currently benefiting from their patronage.

Shooting one in ten could only be a start.

That of course is your view, but I stand by what I said.

Yes UKBA, in all it's previous guises, received a large tranche of cash in the Comprehensive Spending Reviews, a lot of this was to pay for the caseworkers and other staff recruited following the computerisation fiasco.

It is a fact, and if you are, or have been involved you will know it's a fact, that there have been numerous overall cuts in recent years in many departments, enforcement for one.

I also stick with my view that there are some very good staff, but that mistakes are made.

The other comments you make may or not be true, I clearly don't have your vast knowledge, but that doesn't make my comments rubbish.

I agree that Immigration Law is complex and Immigration Officers have taken advantage of that, I know many Immigration Officers and some have admitted to me that they have milked the system for years.

[Electra]

I agree that Immigration Law is complex and Immigration Officers have taken advantage of that, I know many Immigration Officers and some have admitted to me that they have milked the system for years.

Not sure what you mean by that. My understanding of the system is that the Immigration Service, an integral component of the Immigration and Nationality Department, part of the Home Office, was charged with enforcing the Immigration Rules dictated by the Immigration Act 1971, as amended,within policy guidelines framed by government strategy and case law. Any decision could, in the main, be challenged either administratively or by recourse to the Divisional Court.

How did these immigration officers ' milk the system ' for years ?

[theoldgit]

Not sure what you mean by that. My understanding of the system is that the Immigration Service, an integral component of the Immigration and Nationality Department, part of the Home Office, was charged with enforcing the Immigration Rules dictated by the Immigration Act 1971, as amended,within policy guidelines framed by government strategy and case law. Any decision could, in the main, be challenged either administratively or by recourse to the Divisional Court.

True but not really relevant

How did these immigration officers ' milk the system ' for years ?

By ensuring that they always maximise their earnings by being on duty for the maxim amount of time that attracts premium payments, especially during the last year to ensure their pensions are paid at the highest possible rate. As I said this is what IO's have told me, that was the system and I am not, or have never suggested any impropriety.

I don't wish to, nor will I, get into a public slanging match on this forum, but my view remains that there a many good staff working for UKBA, warranted and non-warranted, and as I have said before mistakes are made and when they are it affects peoples lives.

[samran]

The UKBA have been subjected to years and years of "efficiency savings" what you and I would call "budget cuts", staff jobs have been cut and at the same time the workload has increased dramatically. There are many good and caring staff employed by the UKBA, but like many large organisations they have their fair share of tos*ers, well probably more than their fair share to be honest. With all the efficiency savings you might ask where the increased visa application fees are going.

They do make mistakes, who doesn't, the problem is that their mistakes can either ruin someones life or allow someone to stay in the UK who clearly shouldn't be there, and yes, these mistakes shouldn't happen.

Just my two satangs worth.

Utter and complete rubbish.

The UKBA, previously UK BIA, previously UKIS, was swamped with money at the end of the comprehensive spending review, started by the Tories in 1997 and concluded in 2000, when the Labour government finally realised that the car accident known as bogus asylum claims had torn a gaping wound in the 1971 Immigration Act and it had to address what other countries had understood years previously i.e.that to do nothing was simply not an option.

The upshot was an exponential increase in staff, budget and investment in technology. Unfortunately, the then management structure, whilst being wise to immigration issues, was unused to management of capital projects and into the vacuum a host of fellow travelling opportunist deadbeat civil servants and ' consultants ' flooded, eager to advance their own careers and agenda which were guaranteed by a Minister, Liam Byrne, so anally retentive that Brown actually thought the prick was talented.

And what has this influx, derived from such august organisations as the DWP, Prison Service and Birmingham City Council, achieved? A simpleton organisation staffed by shiney arsed clerks supervised by superannuated self serving managers chosen out of social need, cronyism and nepotism, rather than anything approximating to talent or experience, who have constructed a bureaucracy in which the only imperative is to ensure ' all the boxes are ticked ', as if anything so complex as immigration law could be

condensed to something as simplistic as that.

Nothing new in this in civil service terms but the extent of corruption, graft and sheer abuse of public funds by a Labour government is.

Never in 30 years of employment as a civil servant in 4 departments have I ever encountered such malfeasance as that perpetrated by this wretched Labour government. What is even more dispiriting is observing the utter rubbish, unemployable practically anywhere else in the world, posing as public servants who are currently benefiting from their patronage.

Shooting one in ten could only be a start.

The irony of all this is that my Australian mate (see previous post) works for the DWP as an economist!

He said it was a real culture shock for him moving from the Australian Treasury to the British system.

From a personal perspective, having lived in Australia, Thailand and the UK, I'd rank the efficiency of public services available to citizens in that order as well (note, I am not talking about the variety of services and benefits available...).

Australia has gotten its act together in terms of deliver of public services (well for most things it is as acceptable as you are probably going to get it when you have to deal with a myriad of regulations). Thailand, having gone through the experience of getting my wife and myself 'into the system' I'd rate pretty good as well. Most of the time....

The UK, well for anything from getting a NI number, processing work permits and visas, etc it requires ooodles of patience.

[7by7]

Patience, indeed, and it seems that all government departments are as bad as each other.

As an example, my driving licence was suspended for medical reasons. In October last year, having got the 'all clear' from my consultant, I applied to get it back; a process the DVLA say should take 2 weeks, with a maximum of 8 weeks. I eventually got my new licence in February, 15 weeks after I first applied!

One of the problems is the desire by new governments to be seen to be doing something. So they fiddle and change things for no reason. The old IND seemed to be working as well as one can expect, for a government agency, but this government decided to change it to the UKBA. A mere cosemetic face lift which probably cost millions of pounds but improved services not one jot. If anything the service is worse now than before; although this government has increased the charges enormously!

Another problem is the seeming inability of government departments to set up efficient IT systems. How many times have we read of a new government computer system failing and millions having to be spent to put it right. Why can't they get it right in the first place? I suspect it is because the Treasury goes for the cheapest option, not the best.

The whole ethos of successive governments for any government department is not to provide the best possible service; but to run the department as cheaply as possible.

Finally, I am sure that those working at the sharp end in the UKBA, as in all government departments, are in the main conscientious and as efficient as they can be. However, being human they can, and do, make mistakes. There is no incentive put oneself out and work harder, so they have little or no incentive to go that extra mile and their remuneration is not particularly high. OK, they have job security and a good pension, but that's not much use when you are struggling to pay the mortgage now.

I am not making excuses for poor performance, but if you pay peanuts you get monkeys!

Edited May 6, 2009 by 7by7

[theoldgit]

^^^^^^^^ In a nut shell

[Electra]

Err, may I have a reply please or are you content to just witter on?

You clearly stated that immigration officers took advantage of the complexity of ' Immigration Law ' and milked the system for years as a consequence. I asked you how.

You see, I was under the seemingly mistaken apprehension immigration officers were discharging their duties under legislative powers etc., and I thought fit to mention it since you clearly raised an alternative modus operandi. Perhaps it was simply clumsy expression on your part for you now seem to be suggesting that officers were milking the system by working long hours and expecting to be paid for that.

Well fancy that, actually expecting to be paid for work done? Pshaw! Whatever next? And actually having a pension based upon the fruits of one's labour?? Chaps obviously need a dam-n good kicking.

Interesting that you consider the Civil Service to be staffed by monkeys.

As I already explained, the current malaise has been caused by an increasingly inept higher management structure born out of cronyism serving a miserable party with no understanding of how government works. Those who could justly be accused of milking the system are the grotesquely over promoted sycophants who consequently retired on inflated fat pensions and then through their network of cronies return to the same work but as alleged consultants.

[theoldgit]

Err, may I have a reply please or are you content to just witter on? ???

You clearly stated that immigration officers took advantage of the complexity of ' Immigration Law ' and milked the system for years as a consequence. I asked you how.

You see, I was under the seemingly mistaken apprehension immigration officers were discharging their duties under legislative powers etc., and I thought fit to mention it since you clearly raised an alternative modus operandi. Perhaps it was simply clumsy expression on your part for you now seem to be suggesting that officers were milking the system by working long hours and expecting to be paid for that. Never suggested for one moment that IO's shouldn't be well paid for their skills, but you probably know as well as I that many IO's work more Sundays than absolutely necessary to increase their premium payments and subsequently their pensions, and you cannot say in all honesty that it never happened, and I am not just talking about ports.

Well fancy that, actually expecting to be paid for work done? Pshaw! Whatever next? And actually having a pension based upon the fruits of one's labour?? Chaps obviously need a dam-n good kicking. Yes they should be paid for the work that is required to meet the needs of the business, not just to increase the value of their pensions.

Interesting that you consider the Civil Service to be staffed by monkeys. I think you are confused again, 7by7 indicated that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys, he did not say and neither did I that the Home Office or any of it's agencies is staffed by monkeys, if you know different pray tell. In the meantime I will say again that I believe there are a many good staff working in The Home Office and it's agencies.

As I already explained, You didn't really explain, you gave everyone your view. the current malaise has been caused by an increasingly inept higher management structure born out of cronyism serving a miserable party tell us more with no understanding of how government works. Those who could justly be accused of milking the system are the grotesquely over promoted sycophants who consequently retired on inflated fat pensions and then through their network of cronies return to the same work but as alleged consultants.

I have had enough of this thread, I will leave you to wallow in your bitterness

Take care

Sorry about the red replies, I am not very computer savvy.

[Electra]

Be as disingenuous as you like, you are just shifting your ground but I can well understand why.

I am not embittered, I am angry but then that is probably because I care and, unlike you, can distinguish between reality and what you laughably refer to as ' the needs of the business '. Under the current regime that simply equates to how a supine management can appease its political master. In truth, knowledge of ' the business ' has become irrelevant to strategy and accounts for the parlous state the organisation has entered as evidenced by the poor OP who has every right to expect better.

The UKBA senior management strata and its management board are a disgrace.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Electra

[tlusername]

Patience, indeed, and it seems that all government departments are as bad as each other.

As an example, my driving licence was suspended for medical reasons. In October last year, having got the 'all clear' from my consultant, I applied to get it back; a process the DVLA say should take 2 weeks, with a maximum of 8 weeks. I eventually got my new licence in February, 15 weeks after I first applied!

One of the problems is the desire by new governments to be seen to be doing something. So they fiddle and change things for no reason. The old IND seemed to be working as well as one can expect, for a government agency, but this government decided to change it to the UKBA. A mere cosemetic face lift which probably cost millions of pounds but improved services not one jot. If anything the service is worse now than before; although this government has increased the charges enormously!

Another problem is the seeming inability of government departments to set up efficient IT systems. How many times have we read of a new government computer system failing and millions having to be spent to put it right. Why can't they get it right in the first place? I suspect it is because the Treasury goes for the cheapest option, not the best.

So true, especially in light of the very near possible launch of Labour's ID card. The UK has an economny in shreds and is at its worst state since WW2, borrowing is at record levels and Jacqui Smith is still trying to push a national wide adoption of something we don't need. It was only a few years ago that we implemented bio-metric passports.