Side Of Effects Of Obama Foreign Business Tax Crackdown

[Jingthing]

Well I just watched his speech and don't have a text link for this yet, but the gist of it that Obama is going to request that all foreign banks issue USA IRS 1099's to US nationals having accounts with them, and if they don't, the IRS will just assume the worse about the US taxpayers and tax accordingly.

The US government has to get the money somewhere and we are as good a target as anybody. Just a heads up, if you getting any income from Thai bank accounts, even piddly interest, you had best REPORT it. And don't forget your treasury forms due June 30. They are now asking for more specific info on the dollar amounts in these accounts. I smell some hassles coming for many of us, innocent or not ...

While most of us are small potatoes compared to the big corps like Coke which are the fat targets, they are hiring a bunch of new agents to focus on foreign issues, so we might be collateral damage. Enjoy ...

The president will also direct the Internal Revenue Service to more closely scrutinize the tax returns of individuals with offshore accounts and investments, which are often used to avoid paying U.S. taxes

Edited May 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[flying]

His speech was just on the news here..........He seems to be specifically trying to close any tax loopholes for folks manufacturing oversees. Trying to level the field for creating jobs back here?

Other than that he also mentioned checking up on offshore accounts held in the Bahamas & the Cayman.

I imagine there would be a slight possibility of being caught as you say in collateral damage. But really doubt anyone uses Thailand as a hiding spot for big $$$ (lack of interest ) & the US Govt. would know that.

Lastly if anyone would be slow to file any additional forms it sure would be TL

Other than that it is sad to think that the US govt has any rights to anything a expat has in a foreign country.

Death & taxes seems to follow US citizens where ever they go.

edit to add link: http://uk.reuters.com/article/economyNews/...334332620090504

Edited May 4, 2009 by flying

[Jingthing]

Yeah, I like Obama, but I also realize the feds are desperate for cash and I think "ordering" foreign banks to issue US tax documents is the kind of "Yankee imperialism" that he is trying to distance himself from. Like I said, they are desperate. So watch out.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[endure]

I think that most foreign banks would probably tell him to go away.

[Jingthing]

I think that most foreign banks would probably tell him to go away.

Agreed. But he has said if they don't the IRS will make assumptions ...

[endure]

Well that's a conversation between the US government and the citizens it's making assumptions about. I can't see any foreign banks wanting to become extensions of the US IRS.

Edited May 4, 2009 by endure

[Jingthing]

Well that's a conversation between the US government and the citizens it's making assumptions about. I can't see any foreign banks wanting to become extensions of the US IRS.

Well, some might. But the point is that it is an excuse to become very aggressive with US businesses AND people with foreign business/accounts/investments.

[endure]

Well that's a conversation between the US government and the citizens it's making assumptions about. I can't see any foreign banks wanting to become extensions of the US IRS.

Well, some might.

Have you ever known a bank do anything for free?

[flying]

I think that most foreign banks would probably tell him to go away.

Agreed. But he has said if they don't the IRS will make assumptions ...

That may be possible with a registered in the US foreign business. As for individual expats I can't see any way that they, the IRS could assume anything. They would need to know you have a bank account to begin with & at which banks approximate size etc.

At the end of the day it is just another reason for folks to ease off the grid altogether.

Edited May 4, 2009 by flying

[Absingjul]

Regular people don't seem too worried. FEIE (exemption) is already over 3MM baht pa. Deductions can get it over 5MM pa pretty easily.

[Jingthing]

They would need to know you have a bank account to begin with & at which banks approximate size etc.

OK, I was talking about law abiding people. If you are talking about people who fail to report their accounts on the treasury form making them subject to massive fines, I suppose you are right.

[flying]

OK, I was talking about law abiding people. If you are talking about people who fail to report their accounts on the treasury form making them subject to massive fines, I suppose you are right.

Wait that does not make any sense......

You said they assume...I said based on what?

You say now based on legal folks who tell the truth????

Huh?

Ok lemme guess which group your in

I also said many ease off the grid I meant no account.

So is that wrong then to not report you do not have one?

US Income tax is in essence a massive fine after all isn't it?

I guess in this case they should call it foreign income tax that we

the US feels entitled to because .............we can

Edited May 4, 2009 by flying

[Jingthing]

I don't have a moral position on US IRS law. I do know they have power over all Americans though.

For Americans who don't report and do have accounts over 10K I bet you will start to actually here about the massive fines against reporting actually being enforced. How will they find out? You may be surprised.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Jingthing

[flying]

I don't have a moral position on US IRS law.I do know they have power over all Americans though.

For Americans who don't report and do have accounts over 10K I bet you will start to actually here about the massive fines against reporting actually being enforced. How will they find out? You may be surprised.

Oh you would be surprised how un-surprised I would be at anything they did.

You know this is census year here in the US? Did you know when they come to our door they now paint it? I mean they are inputing gps coordinates. Im sure this is just for street maps for tourists

Other than that I guess your down to two choices about *your* money.

They have only the power you gave them.

As you can probably tell I do have a moral position on taxation

Dont get me wrong I pay plenty here. But if I were in a foreign country retired

I would not be giving a dime. Why would I? What am I getting in return for it? Paved roads...sewer...water...postal delivery? I did not notice they were providing me with any services while I was there so why would I pay them?

Do I so much as get a free notary at the US Embassy?....that would be... NO..

Americans need to perk up a bit & remember what made Americans become Americans in the 1st place.

[Naam]

I think that most foreign banks would probably tell him to go away.

that is definitely not the case. especially foreign banks who do business in the Greatest Nation on Earth™ are shitting in their pants and are (since the UBS case and the recent G20 meeting) eager to please. except for some extremely shady financial institutions virtually no bank exists which establishes an account for a US-citizen or a US-person without him/her signing form "W-9". for those who were accepted in olden times without W-9 it is only a matter of time till their banks will ask them to sign this waiver.

the only way to circumvent that dilemma without giving up US-citizenship is (quite some risk involved!) to have a trusted "non-US" friend who establishes an account and grants general power of attorney. but i am convinced that this loophole will be closed too sooner or later.

[Naam]

Dont get me wrong I pay plenty here. But if I were in a foreign country retired I would not be giving a dime.

no problem for you Flying and of course those with foreign wives (whom they can trust). it would however still take some time to "dispose" of your dough about which the IRS has knowledge.

[flying]

no problem for you Flying and of course those with foreign wives (whom they can trust). it would however still take some time to "dispose" of your dough about which the IRS has knowledge.

True but at the rate my dough is disposing I may not have any left when I retire anyway

Actually when you consider how low the interest on accounts in TL. I guess for most they are talking about a very small number.

The interest on 10 million baht at 1% is still only 3k USD

Vampires

[CWMcMurray]

I don't have a moral position on US IRS law. I do know they have power over all Americans though.

For Americans who don't report and do have accounts over 10K I bet you will start to actually here about the massive fines against reporting actually being enforced. How will they find out? You may be surprised.

JingThing (or anyone else in the know),

1. Do you know if this 10,000 in one account or combined total?

2. If for example a US citizen had 2 overseas accounts, 1 for 6,000 and another for 5,000 would they be required to file notification?

3. Does it matter if the accounts are in the same bank or same country?

4. If I am married and my wife has an acount in her name (its her business account) and this is over 10,000 am I obligated to register it?

5. If not, what if its her name on the account, but I am also listed an authorized user (can deposit or withdraw funds).

Don't want to break any laws, but also don't want to waste my time or put my self in their system if I do not have to.

[Jingthing]

I don't have a moral position on US IRS law. I do know they have power over all Americans though.

For Americans who don't report and do have accounts over 10K I bet you will start to actually here about the massive fines against reporting actually being enforced. How will they find out? You may be surprised.

JingThing (or anyone else in the know),

1. Do you know if this 10,000 in one account or combined total?

Combined total

2. If for example a US citizen had 2 overseas accounts, 1 for 6,000 and another for 5,000 would they be required to file notification?

Yes. The dollar amount is based on the point of the highest amount in the account at ANY TIME during the year, even one day.

3. Does it matter if the accounts are in the same bank or same country?

No.

4. If I am married and my wife has an acount in her name (its her business account) and this is over 10,000 am I obligated to register it?

I don't know for sure. I would assume if it is in her name she must file the form with treasury separately.

5. If not, what if its her name on the account, but I am also listed an authorized user (can deposit or withdraw funds).

Oh, that is a complication. Above my knowledge level. The instructions on the form may help.

Don't want to break any laws, but also don't want to waste my time or put my self in their system if I do not have to.

[Scott]

I am sure glad I am not rich and have all these problems to face!

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

no problem for you Flying and of course those with foreign wives (whom they can trust). it would however still take some time to "dispose" of your dough about which the IRS has knowledge.

True but at the rate my dough is disposing I may not have any left when I retire anyway

Actually when you consider how low the interest on accounts in TL. I guess for most they are talking about a very small number.

The interest on 10 million baht at 1% is still only 3k USD

Vampires

You forgot to subtract the Thai 15% tax on the earnings.

[Texpat]

Thai bank interest rates are poor, but they take the tax out up front -- so they appear worse than they are.

In the US the rates are marginally higher, but come tax time they suck back 15-50% of it.

What's the difference between a farang that moves to Thailand with his money in burlap sacks and dumps it into a Thai bank -- and another farang that buys a house? You reckon they're going to try and tax my house?

Obama's just another Robin Hood tax-and-spend liberal numbskull.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Texpat

[Naam]

no problem for you Flying and of course those with foreign wives (whom they can trust). it would however still take some time to "dispose" of your dough about which the IRS has knowledge.

True but at the rate my dough is disposing I may not have any left when I retire anyway

Actually when you consider how low the interest on accounts in TL. I guess for most they are talking about a very small number.

The interest on 10 million baht at 1% is still only 3k USD

Vampires

i wasn't referring to any accounts in Thailand but establishing accounts anywhere with wifey's non-US passport thus avoiding form W-9 and reports from the banks to the IRS. a number of "real" banks in the "real" banking world -not the sorry institutions in Thailand which carry the name "bank" - are pissed off since years with the additional and extensive paperwork for the IRS involving US-clients and refuse to take on new clients who are subjects of the IRS.

[PeaceBlondie]

I formerly would have guessed that the actual audit rate for retired US expatriates was well below one in a thousand - more like 1 in 10,000.

[gbt71fa]

Well I just watched his speech and don't have a text link for this yet, but the gist of it that Obama is going to request that all foreign banks issue USA IRS 1099's to US nationals having accounts with them, and if they don't, the IRS will just assume the worse about the US taxpayers and tax accordingly.

The US government has to get the money somewhere and we are as good a target as anybody. Just a heads up, if you getting any income from Thai bank accounts, even piddly interest, you had best REPORT it. And don't forget your treasury forms due June 30. They are now asking for more specific info on the dollar amounts in these accounts. I smell some hassles coming for many of us, innocent or not ...

While most of us are small potatoes compared to the big corps like Coke which are the fat targets, they are hiring a bunch of new agents to focus on foreign issues, so we might be collateral damage. Enjoy ...

The president will also direct the Internal Revenue Service to more closely scrutinize the tax returns of individuals with offshore accounts and investments, which are often used to avoid paying U.S. taxes

There are already rumbles from his side of the aisle in the congress and the senate. Too many of them fall under that category. Nothing will come of it except to make an example out of a few of the companies who didn't support him. Somebody needs to remeind him that no economic downturn in the history of civilization has ever been corrected with tax-increases or non-productive spending. They always seem to think that they are the ones to finally make it work....

[flying]

clients who are subjects of the IRS.

I love that !!

[Tokay]

JingThing (or anyone else in the know),

1. Do you know if this 10,000 in one account or combined total?

2. If for example a US citizen had 2 overseas accounts, 1 for 6,000 and another for 5,000 would they be required to file notification?

3. Does it matter if the accounts are in the same bank or same country?

It's 10k USD TOTAL, regardless of how many accounts or countries the money may be in.

4. If I am married and my wife has an acount in her name (its her business account) and this is over 10,000 am I obligated to register it?

5. If not, what if its her name on the account, but I am also listed an authorized user (can deposit or withdraw funds).

Is your wife American or Thai, and if American do you file a joint return?

[Dakhar]

My wife had her green card revoked..... "Good O'l Uncle Sam." So now she is my tax shelter....

[flying]

My wife had her green card revoked..... "Good O'l Uncle Sam." So now she is my tax shelter....

Not to change the subject but...............Was it because she stayed out if the US for too long during the initial 2 years? I hear more & more losing their card that way now. Sucks after all the work required to do it.

[Texpat]

If that's the case, the rules are pretty clear.

Not sure what Good o'l Uncle Sam had to do with it.

I'm in the same situation, but know the score.