Marrying A Thai Girl

[dereklev]

But this is costum of Thai u should be honour her , if you love her

Yes... but it's not the custom of westerners sorry to speak so bluntly it's seen as buying a wife !! (Asbestos suit on )

So if the girl loves him she will agree to a compromise. Yes ??

No, she will honour her parents first.

Where is your compromise? You just expect things to be done the Western way......but TIT

How is it buying a wife? It may be helping your future family or do you not think her family are your family?

Are you one of those pr*ts who still believe that the bride's family should pay for the wedding?

I paid a dowry and was happy to do so, after the marriage my mother in law bought some land for my wife.

When my son was born last December my mother in law bought some land for him.

So is my mother in law buying a grandson?

[No beleeeeve!]

>>>you forgot

3) You will be together the rest of your life, through thick and thin

many many have succeeded too, you just never hear about them as much<<<

Devildog--

No, I didn't include your example or the numerous other rare possibilities. I wrote what I think will happen. My opinion and I stand behind it. Yes, it may not be the case but if I was a betting man, that is how I would bet.

Thanks, but I didn't forget a thing.

[johng]

How is it buying a wife?

Sorry I meant, it is perceived by many ( westerners ) as buying a wife.

When you told your family/friends back in England that you where marrying a Thai woman and that you would be paying a dowry to her family, where there not a few raised eyebrows ??

I paid a dowry and was happy to do so

Well I'm glad that you where happy to pay a dowry, I'm not saying your decision to do so was wright or wrong.. that's for you to decide.

But the fact remains,the dowry subject causes much tension in Thai/western relationships.Just look to this thread for proof of that.

I understand that traditionally the "Sin Sot" is just for show,so the womans family maintain good face, and that after the expenses of the wedding ceromony are deducted the remaining money along with they money brought by guests to the wedding is given back to the newlyweds to start their life together.

That seems fair enough to me, ( a compromise ) but it doesn't allways happen when a "Farung" is involved does it ?

You must have read about and heard first hand accounts of the horror stories

if you have been visiting Thailand since 1982.

My first trip was 1982 and boy was Pattaya different then

Are you one of those pr*ts who still believe that the bride's family should pay for the wedding?

No but surely they should contribute some thing more than just the bride herself.

So is my mother in law buying a grandson

Only if you agreed on a price before you agreed to make one for her

[johng]

What's the matter dereklev.... cat got your tongue ?

Edited April 15, 2005 by johng

[Mai Pai]

They say in Pattaya you could get " married everynight" for years on 600,000 baht

[TokyoT]

A while ago when I found myself facing a similar situation I found the following information in regard to the history of the bride price. I was never able to find any additional supporting information.

“The parents of middle and upper class families were required to equally contribute a portion of their wealth to their children as a wedding gift. For example, the bride's family was required to provide the land for a house, and the groom's family was required to build a house on that land.

For the lower classes, the man was required to "buy" his wife from her parents, but at the wedding, the parents of the wife and groom were supposed to give back to the children the equal sum of the "bride price" in order for them to start a new family together.

The bride price was called sin sort, which I am sure you know. And the parent's equal in value wedding gift was called Tun. The onus of responsibility was never entirely on the groom. And the system was put in place in order to provide "start up capital" (actual translation) for the children to start a new life. The sin sot was never meant as a provision for the parents. In fact, it is the other way around. The bride price was to be held in trust rather than be spent.

Now here is the interesting part. If the wife left the husband or did something wrong or deceitful that caused the dissolution of the marriage, she was required to give the bride price back to her husband. All other property was distributed equally between the divorcing parties. If a woman didn't bring a dowry (ton) into the marriage, which was unthinkable at that time, all property, including the bride price, was given to the husband in the event of divorce or death of the wife. The wife's family had no claim to her and her husband's assets.”

[dereklev]

What's the matter dereklev.... cat got your tongue ?   

Sorry johng I didn't see your response until today.

I see that here and in the new Dowry post you edit.......

I paid a dowry and was happy to do so, after the marriage my mother in law bought some land for my wife.

down to........

I paid a dowry and was happy to do so

That is not the same statement!!

Before we got engaged the dowry was discussed and a price agreed.

It was agreed what would be paid for from the dowry and what would be returned to my wife.

The family kept less than 25% of the dowry and we kept the money given at the wedding.

Much of the dowry was gold which my wife still has.

Yes the dowry raised some eyebrows back home not least from my mother!!!

But most saw it as a tradition and many said far less than they contributed towards their own weddings in the UK.

Yes I have friends who have had very bad experiences and others good like mine.

Back in the UK I can say the same!!

In the end paying a dowry or not is a personal choice and yes I can see that many farangs have married into Thai families far less equitable as mine.

[TokyoT]

1. What would you consider to be a fair dowry for a Uni graduate who's parents are primary school teachers in rural thailand?

Fair is in the eye of the beholder – but the 600,000 baht mom is asking is worse than ridiculous.

2. Is the dowry something that is negotiable?

Everything is negotiable – and in many parts of Asia negotiation is all part of the process.

3. Ae's mother claims that she will give most of the dowry back to us after the wedding. Have any of you had a similar experience in this regard? Why is a little bell ringing in the deep, dark, recesses of my mind?

Fairly common to have part of the dowry returned after – if this becomes part of the deal than the 600,000 baht would be acceptable (depending upon what form the 600,000 baht takes). If it is to be all in cash or gold be very, very careful as it will obviously not be easy for you to make sure you get most/any of it back. I have heard of some situations in which a check was agreed to be used in which case the “check” is really only worth the paper it is written on and you might as well make it 1,000,000 baht.

4. What are the typical costs associated with a country wedding ... in Isaan?

Typical cost depend very much on location and the number of people. If you are in one of the larger cities in Issan (Udon, Ubon, Korat) then the prices can actually get up there pretty quick – especially if you use a hotel.

Some costs to consider:

All the Monk and Buddhist related costs

Wedding ceremony

Wedding reception/ party (food, booze, entertainment, hotel)

Flowers

Cloths for you and the new wife

Video

Also consider that part of a traditional Thai wedding involves gifts of cash from the guests. Depending you the extent of the ceremony and the generosity of the guests so times this can off-set most if not all of the costs.

5. What would happen if I put my foot down and set the limit that I would pay ... non-negotiable? Would love conquer all?

Depends upon your new wife – but probably yes. Agreeing to pay anything at all will certainly not be turned away.

6. Why does everything have to be "Thai Style"? Don't westerners have a culture? Has anyone tried to go 50/50 .... I believe it's called ha-sip ha-sip? What would happen if I insisted on some of the western traditions?

Get used to it – We westerners are from the far away void where is are culturally and emotionally without. But no not give up the fight as this will become more important to you if/when you have children. As you will probably want to instill some western values in your children.

Ha-sip ha-sip is just the direct Thai translation for the number 50 twice. While the basic meaning may come across the idea of 50/50 is something that will take more than the simple phrase.

7. Shouldn't they consider that I do all the travelling, and will have to pay for Ae to come to Oz, and future trips, phone bills and the like? Doesn't this enter into the equation at all?

All of these expenses relate to you and Ae and are necessary for you to maintain your relationship. Therefore not a factor in the parents view in regard to discussion of dowry/sin sot/ bride price.

You can of course use the issue of future trip to Oz for ma and pa as a factor. Such as agreeing to fly ma and/or pa over during the first year of your marriage (if you can get the visa) – which may be something you planned to do anyway.

Good luck mate,

TokyoT

[TokyoT]

Some final comments that you might want to digest:

Things in your favor:

1) Prior Farang relationship - Your wife had a western boyfriend before that came to visit her in the village. This makes her damaged goods in the eyes of most Thai’s. This has a major impact on her ‘value’ when discussing bride price. Do not under estimate the effect of this item. Especially since your wife to be has now entered into a second Farang relationship and therefore has probably eliminated any chance she has of ending up with a respectable Thai.

2) Your wallet – it is your money and they cannot get more than you agree to give. Do not underestimate this point in regard to future money issues – rest assured there will be future money issues.

3) Monthly stipend – you mention that you have already agreed to 10,000 baht per month (in my opinion this is way too high). This can be used in the negotiations for bride price (like if you agree to 100,000 baht and that they will only get 5,000 baht per month for the first year). Some folks can not see the forest for the trees and will gladly accept a lower lump up front (then again they may not have any faith in either your willingness to pay the monthly stipend or they may not have any faith that you and their daughter will be together long enough to get many of the monthly payments).

Neutral point – Age – your wife to be is 21. Not quite over-the-hill but quickly exiting prime marriage material in the eyes of many Thai.

One item in their favor – You indicate that they have paid for Ae’s university. This is no small feat, and I can see where they might expect some return on investment here. If she were to not marry you the type of job that she could get and therefore the amount of money she can contribute to the family is much better as a university grad.

Another item of note: Not to sound to negative about things by good old Ae and mom may be playing you with the little fight they are having. Mom may well know that the 600,000 baht is out of the question. But by putting this sky high number on the table, and then having Ae take your side may give mom the inside track on what the maximum amount she can get. After the 600,000 baht request from mom when Ae fumes to you that 600,000 is ridiculous and that everything would be much easier if mom would agree to a much more reasonable price of say 200,000 baht (I am picking this number out of the air) – then they can feel out your response to the 200,000 baht indirectly. Hopefully this is not the case – but stranger things have happened.

Without factoring in the Ae’s past Farang relationship; as a university grad from Issan a reasonable sin sot would be in the 100,000 baht range with at least one baht in gold. Most of the money being turned over to the wife and the family keeping the gold. Factoring in the past Farang relationship (and now an additional Farang relationship with you – as this even further reduces the potent ional future sin sot), I would say about half of this amount would still be reasonable.

Hope things work out for the best,

TokyoT

[devildog683]

>>>you forgot

3) You will be together the rest of your life, through thick and thin

many many have succeeded too, you just never hear about them as much<<<

Devildog--

No, I didn't include your example or the numerous other rare possibilities.  I wrote what I think will happen.  My opinion and I stand behind it.  Yes, it may not be the case but if I was a betting man, that is how I would bet.

Thanks, but I didn't forget a thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but it is a possibility, even if rare in your opinion, so it should be listed under possibilities

[f.Bakker]

For what it's worth.. Live/spend time with her before you marry, would you not do this in a 'normal' relationship? As for money.. Ae's parents are investing in her for their future, hence paying for her studies, is this something that you are prepared to take on? You'll be expected to by both the parents and Ae, so your original lay out will increase over the years.. Good luck..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Never mary a thaigirl,just have fun and forget the rest.

[johng]

That is not the same statement!!

Yes you're correct it's not quite the same statement,

I was goading you a bit in to making a reply that's all.

I suppose that if everyone is happy with the arangement,

who am I to argue with it ? Upto you

The dowry idea just doesn't sit well with me thats all.

Has your mother recovered from the shock yet ???

[dereklev]

That is not the same statement!!

Yes you're correct it's not quite the same statement,

I was goading you a bit in to making a reply that's all.

I suppose that if everyone is happy with the arangement,

who am I to argue with it ? Upto you

The dowry idea just doesn't sit well with me thats all.

Has your mother recovered from the shock yet ???

Yes she has thanks.

Didn't take her long and now she looking forward to meeting my wife and baby in June.

Upto you!! You sure your not a Thai girl??

[david1]

Just a few thoughts that hopefuly arent too much of a ramble.

Maybe worth thinking from the parents side.

The Parents  worked hard to put her thru uni??

How old are they?

Are there other useful brothers or sisters to help look after them?

Thai parents invest in their kids so they can take over the business if wealthy or look after them in old age.

Whipping the daughter off to OZ may be upsetting to them.

Get AE over to aust for three mths and dont marry her!

See if she can genuinely cope with living here.

If you are in Sydney need help with meeting some thai gals for her to som tam with here let me know.

My lady knows heaps ,and has one sister here and has had one other sister visit recently....she didnt like it ,they love it and would never go back to thailand.

Talk thru with AE these family expectations,dowry sure ,but dont forget you will be seen as wealthy falang ,make sure you set expectations up front regarding ongoing money back home,the requests WILL come.

Spend the three mths ,let her go home,and think about things,you need to cool off and think about things too.

Sure lovely to look at,great sex,but do you have a real connection?

What will she do if she comes back to stay?

DO you  ,Does she want kids?

The more work you put in up front the easier it will be..

Finally the visa.

Keep records of everything now

Phone calls

Emails

Photos

You will need to show about 6 mths or more to make the ghouls at oz embassy happy.

Thanks for the reply mate ... is good. Her parents are in their late 40's. Both are school teachers. Her mother told me that they will each get 250,000bt if they retire when they are 50. More if they work longer. They own several parcels of land, each costing around 200,000bt. No doubt, they are paying the bank for these. They have a small farm where they grow rice. They have about 6 cows and are building up stock ... 4 had calfs this year. I think they are pretty well looked after financially. They have 3 other daughters ... the youngest would also like to live in Oz ... and gives me no end of cheek when I'm there.

I am worried about her meeting other Thais here in Oz ... there has been some bad press regarding Thai girls working in the wrong industry .... I used to share an office suite with an Immigration Lawyer who specialises in asian immigration. He was forever trying to get passports back for "unlucky" Thai girls who wanted to return home ... but that's another story.

I was planning to take her to the Temple in Annandale. And to the Thai new year festival at Darling Harbour ... hopefully she will meet some good people there.

Snoophound ... the sex is a small part of the equation and didn't feature in my first trip to Thailand. We have the same wicked sense of humour and love for dancing. We like the same movies and same music. There is no point in her bringing any of her CD's ... I've got most of them ... and they ain't cheap pirates either ... haha ...

Ae will have a degree in Business English ... she will have 3 months work experience in hotel management too. She wants to work in the travel / hospitality industry.

Her 3 months here will include 2 months at a full time english school in Ultimo. It will be just like going to work ... hopefully ... we will be having a normal life ... well, as normal as we can, apart from the Easter and Anzac long weekends.

Thanks for your advice.

Virg'

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I agree with the posts that suggest spending a fair amount of time with her before taking the big step to marriage. Not to sound cyncial, but if you marry her in your home country how are the divorce laws? Do they have preneptual agreements there? Also, I beleive in a Thai divorce the Farang usually looses all assets in Thailand to his spouse. I don't mean to sound pessamistic, but I work in a bank( untill I move to Thailand full time in June) and have seen to many people loose so much that they worked so hard for. Sounds like you have a good plan though and have covered many of the bases. Hope all works out for you and Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!

[johng]

Upto you!! You sure your not a Thai girl??

Nope, not a Thai girl.... but I do get to meet quite a few sadly they are mostly the type that should be avoided, if mariage is being considered.

I know I'm cynical, anyone who met those girls and knew what they where really upto would be cynical too.

That's not to say that all Thai girls are bad, far from it.

As some one else so rightly pointed out. the type of person you find depends where you look.

[devildog683]

Upto you!! You sure your not a Thai girl??

As some one else so rightly pointed out. the type of person you find depends where you look.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

very true

[Storekeeper]

The first time I visited my wife's family in her town I stayed a week in one of those corrugated tin shacks. When we left I told the old lady to start building

a house cause I couldn't be camping out every time I came to Thailand. I

married her 3 months later and gave a small dowery that wasn't asked for

or negotiated. No arguments from her family at all But then again they

were still in shock over the 1,000,000 baht house that was decided on and

built before they had a chance to think about it

[scheggs]

Its obvious you do not know the thai culture from Isaan.

1. A girl can not go to bed with any man until she is married if she does she is difently second hand in the Thai socirty.

2. This also means she is now cheap.

3. If her parents are of the standing you are indicating there is something not right and you better believe it.

4. As far as getting married concerned so quick is stupid man .

5. do your self a favour go and live in her environment for 6 months then you will have a little understanding and then see what happens.

6 I got married to Isaan Girl had 250 people with a big band cost me 130,000 baht .

7. dowdry yea cost me a new motorcycle.

Good luck mate but I am afraid you have a long way to go before you tie that knot

Just a quickie...More later

600,000B is loopy, no not loopy...on another planet..........

How on earth did she come up with that figure?

Gets worse....

About the cousin...and then the farang boyfriend.....there is no such thing as a middle class ie teacher parents/liberal, university educated Thai Girl with farang boyfriends in 1993.....1993..I don't think you ever said how old she is....I would like someone else's view on that!?

Without revealing all or anything...maybe which Jangwat are we in? With a University? What is a degree in Business English? Ho Hum!? Not on offer at ANU, or Monas, I fear I think you should go back to square one.....and save on the phone bills.

Don't get me wrong...all power to love and you...but sounds like you are in the wood!

Do not move without the Expat Daddies' permission!!!!

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My mistake ..... farang boyfriend was 2003 ... it was too late at night for me. Ae is only 21. He was American. Used to fly into town every few weeks.

Yes, I think 600,000 is crazy. I won't stand for it. I was going to write to her mother and negotiate directly with her. I was going to suggest 50,000 for the wedding and 50,000 bride price. Ae told me that her brother-in-law paid 200,000 and that her mother gave most of it back. I thought that if they need to show face they can borrow some of their own money to make themselves look good .... is this unreasonable on my part?

OK, I'd like some comments about the social ladder in Thailand, if I could. Ae's parents are both primary school teachers. She claims they are important in the town and that everyone can know them. Therefore they must have face if I am to marry their daughter. Is this true? Important?

Yes, I am in the wood ... and that's why I'm talking to all you "expat daddies".

I was going to write to her mother and propose the above 50,000/50,000 ... along with 10,000 per month once Ae starts work and to continue for as long as we can aford .... along with one trip to Oz for her mother each time a baby comes along and one trip for Ae's youngest sister to study here for a year ... in about 4 years time. I thought that is a more appropriate dowry than paying a huge sum of money that Ae's aunts and uncles are going to piss up a wall ..... they all drink whisky like water.

Any other thoughts?

Dump the girl? Mate, I am in love. I think Ae is too. It is now about 10 days since she's talked with her mother .... but then, that might all be part of the game, right?

Please comment, all and sundry

Virg'

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MMmmmm...Fly into town? well that narrows it down a bit

I really do not want to sound like a bucket of cold water...and I guess my views are known to others here....and I have stuck my scrawny neck out here into your business, which is none of mine...but you did ASK!!

I would like, for the most part, to wait and see what any one else has to say.....

But.....what would I do now?...I would not have known how to do it 15 years ago......I came to Thailand a complete novice...it took me 10 years to meet my wife and in so doing I had to progress from Patong Bar Girls to Chinese Hi-So and back to the Thai Middle Class.....

Really truthful summary of what you have here...you know lots more than I/We do..you now just let slip the bit about alcoholic relatives...this is a common problem.with Issan poor...but should not be so with teachers........

I would for a start ask myself reality questions about everything I thought was important...ie Do I actually, with evidence, know the truth......and of course you can add Do I Care!?

It sounds to me as you go on that you are in the classic Issan dilemma...you met a girl you think is fantastic; you have not the slightest clue about the reality of her and her family's life..except what they tell you, allow you to see..and what you thought you saw or heard.....and wish to think.

If you were her..you would sound like a dream come true....

Without wishing to be brutal...the daughter of Issan teachers sleeping..was she? or even being the 'boyfriend' ..with an..one??.. American when she was 19..is not good news for you unless she has a VERY plausible explanation...being 'liberal' definitely does not count.....then move on...If she had a US boyfriend..and the parents knew...she is in Issan Bride Price Terms...Used Goods...which makes 600,000 even more loopy

Guess you hoped this was simple?!

Take care

S

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[Virgil]

UPDATE:

Ae has been here for 3 months and is in love with Oz .... just went back to Uni last month. Her mother has said that the cost of the wedding would be taken from any dowry and the rest returned .... I'm skeptical .... but listening ....

We are now pursuing the engagement party etc.

Virg'

Just a few thoughts that hopefuly arent too much of a ramble.

Maybe worth thinking from the parents side.

The Parents  worked hard to put her thru uni??

How old are they?

Are there other useful brothers or sisters to help look after them?

Thai parents invest in their kids so they can take over the business if wealthy or look after them in old age.

Whipping the daughter off to OZ may be upsetting to them.

Get AE over to aust for three mths and dont marry her!

See if she can genuinely cope with living here.

If you are in Sydney need help with meeting some thai gals for her to som tam with here let me know.

My lady knows heaps ,and has one sister here and has had one other sister visit recently....she didnt like it ,they love it and would never go back to thailand.

Talk thru with AE these family expectations,dowry sure ,but dont forget you will be seen as wealthy falang ,make sure you set expectations up front regarding ongoing money back home,the requests WILL come.

Spend the three mths ,let her go home,and think about things,you need to cool off and think about things too.

Sure lovely to look at,great sex,but do you have a real connection?

What will she do if she comes back to stay?

DO you  ,Does she want kids?

The more work you put in up front the easier it will be..

Finally the visa.

Keep records of everything now

Phone calls

Emails

Photos

You will need to show about 6 mths or more to make the ghouls at oz embassy happy.

7.  Shouldn't they consider that I do all the travelling, and will have to pay for Ae to come to Oz, and future trips, phone bills and the like?  Doesn't this enter into the equation at all?

A bit about me:  38, fit, professional with my own business, house and car.  Never planned to meet a Thai girl ... it just happened.  Not supporting Ae financially, except for when she arrives her for three months.  Married before.  Divorced 5 years ago.

Virg'

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I often asked myself the same question when I was married over 4 years about the wifes family considering all the other things I must be responsible for. The answer is yes, they should consider it but resoundingly do not!

By the way, why did you feel the need to tell us you were fit? How does this enter into your discussion at all?

Quote from Britmaveric:

Personally doweries are a waste of time. I guess the bigger question is how would your prospective fiance feel about no dowery? (deal breaker or would she care less?)

Dowery is normally a face thing to show the village, and should be returned, but you never know. The idea kind of reminds me of buying property and that isnt what love is about.

End quote.

Here, here Brit. I am totally in agreement with you on your comment

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[Virgil]

No slacker ... I haven't given up on you ... or the girl

Ae is back in Thailand at Uni after living with me for 3 months. She loves OZ. My family really like her ... especially my parents and my two nieces. She seems to fit right in with the family and enjoys Sydney.

She was bored in English class .... her English is better than the other students ... really, it is good enough for her to work.

Now she is back in Thailand and going crazy ... we talk about 2 hours everyday. I think things are going to work out ....

Still wrestling with the dowry ..... but her mother has said the balance will be returned.

Keep you posted ....

Virgil

Where is Virgil?

He has given up on us if not on the girl!

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[Virgil]

Hi Impossible Me

Thanks for your reply .... no .... I am not clear about what will happen in the wedding process. If you have time, it would be good to know about this.

Cheers

Virgil

hi virgil i think ae's mom want to Ae is happy in her life , The dowry isn ot expensive for you and Ae's mom will pay back after you will get wedding Ae's ... and you should have a guide for converse wiht her mom > i called him / her is matchmaker < it is meaing somebody who converse about marry with Ae's parents >

in the case wedding that prepare trees banana , clothing < for recive to pay respect Ae's family , fruits, dowry and procession of the groom's parents < started near groom 's home > ,friends for dance thai and shoout out for joyed

    after u will converse wiht Ae's parents u will get marry her> oh forget , before u will find ur 's groom u will pay goden door and silver  door < friends ' groom will seperate goden door and silver door>  

i dont know u will pay for Ae's i think if u fallen in love her and be happy wiht her shoud u do ? and u will be happy wiht your marry

Where are u ? Are u clear >> i advice you coz i am Thai gal and learn english bussinees too >>>  Are u clear about thai cultural ?

Can i help u i am delighted for you and every friends

Impossible_me  

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[Virgil]

Never pay a dowry. If the girl truly loves you, she will agree not to pay her parents to mary you. Now you might have to pay some loans that your future wife  has outstanding, but a dowry to mom or dad is just another way the family has in extorting money from you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But this is costum of Thai u should be honour her , if you love her

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Impossible Me ..... you are brilliant ... it is western custom that the father of the bride pay for the wedding ... I will ask her parents to pay for everything ... because I know that she honours me so much too ... absolutely brilliant idea, Impossible Me .... why didn't I think of that before?

Virgil

[dereklev]

Never pay a dowry. If the girl truly loves you, she will agree not to pay her parents to mary you. Now you might have to pay some loans that your future wife  has outstanding, but a dowry to mom or dad is just another way the family has in extorting money from you.

But this is costum of Thai u should be honour her , if you love her

Impossible Me ..... you are brilliant ... it is western custom that the father of the bride pay for the wedding ... I will ask her parents to pay for everything ... because I know that she honours me so much too ... absolutely brilliant idea, Impossible Me .... why didn't I think of that before?

Virgil

But you are marrying her in Thailand.......

Surely you should follow the Thai customs which in this case includes a dowry.

Do you not believe her mother when she says the balance of the dowry will be returned? ?

Can't see what your problem is Virgil.......

[johng]

it is western custom that the father of the bride pay for the wedding ... I will ask her parents to pay for everything ... because I know that she honours me so much too

exactly !!!!!! ....... couldn't agree more.

Tell them,then watch the astonished and shocked expresion on THEIR faces for a change

[Totster]

Still wrestling with the dowry ..... but her mother has said the balance will be returned.

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This is quite normal... it is important for the family to "show" a large amount of money.... even if they don't intend to keep it..

totster

[Curt]

Still wrestling with the dowry ..... but her mother has said the balance will be returned.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is quite normal... it is important for the family to "show" a large amount of money.... even if they don't intend to keep it..

totster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's one of the problems Westerners have with sin sod.

We often think of it as a pay-off, or a purchase price.

It's mostly about face.

If it is about the money, I would have concerns.

IMHO, if you are still wrestling with the concept, you need more time.

This can set the tone of your relationship with her and her family.

[Khun Larry]

Why Marry?

Just stay together until the separation day arrives, or if it doesn't you just keep on keepin on.

The Marriage commitment is best saved for your death bed, or will, when it makes most sense.

Honey, I'm going to the store ..................................

[WhiteShiva]

Still wrestling with the dowry ..... but her mother has said the balance will be returned.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is quite normal... it is important for the family to "show" a large amount of money.... even if they don't intend to keep it..

totster

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I married, it was agreed that the sin-sot was to be given back to us. I can't remember the exact figure, a few hundred thousand, I believe (my wife is university educated, worked for a multinational company in Bangkok when I met her, not previously married). Father was the village head. The wedding ceremony was to take place at her home village outside Khorat. For the sake of decency , I stayed in town, and was to drive to the village early in the morning of the day of the wedding.

A few days before the wedding ceremony (which took place outside Khorat), her parents expressed concern for my safety, driving out in the middle of no-where (my words, not theirs) in the early hours of the morning with more money than the average Isaan farmer will make in a lifetime. Hence I suggested, and they thought it was a good idea, that I would write a cheque instead. So I crossed a cheque, wrote down 5 million baht in numbers. and four million in letters and signed with a signature that basically had my initials in them, but otherwise looked mothing like the real thing (just to be on the safe side ).

Anyway, the whole thing went down like a dream, people were stunned at the amount, and both my wife and her parents gained a great deal of face.

For a different take on sin-sot, from a competely different part of the world, I suggest you read the story about Johnny Lingo - it may change you view on the subject. Believe me - this stuff works!

http://journals.aol.com/hestiahomeschool/H...al/entries/3767

[SK1972]

there should really be compromise from both sides. Not a "take it or leave it " situation.

if they cannot agree now, do you think they can agree on anything in future? TGs are easily influenced by their parents/family and the fact they do not want to lose face.

I agree with Larry, why not just live together? Or just do the Thai ceremony, that is considered "married" and without "legal obligations" should anything not work out.

All this talk about Issan women who are not allowed to live together (unless the girl is still a virgin) before marriage is utter &lt;deleted&gt;. Maybe 20 years ago.

They say they don't but I have a few girl friends who have lived together with their bfs (Thai men) in Surin before and apparently it is quite common.

[SK1972]

1. A girl can not go to bed with any man until she is married if she does she is difently second hand in the Thai socirty.

6 I got married to Isaan Girl had 250 people with a big band cost me 130,000 baht .

Out of curiousity.................she was a virgin when you met her then?? Never had sex before marriage? You said she would be considered "cheap" if she did.

Just curious to know.

Edited July 7, 2005 by SK1972