20,000 Red Shirts Expected At Rally Today

[Jingthing]

I say no. If we want to see bloody accident scenes, we can pick up a Thai newspaper. You need more specific facts about incidents with convincing eye witness accounts of credible witnesses or you have NOTHING.

[Koo82]

Looks like a man in a red shirt seriously injured or worse from some place and some time. Proving what? Where is the detailed back story and evidence? That picture does not even convincing demonstrate he was a protester! If you're going to play in the big leagues of revisionist history, your "leaders" are going to have to do better at convincing anybody other than diehard true believers like you. Can you understand that?

Do you know that the reds claim their people are missing from 13th April?

[Jingthing]

Koo, maybe this stuff plays at the Redhead party, but remember this is an expat forum. Many of us have been on jury duty on courts in the west and understand the rules of evidence for making serious accusations against people. So the red leaders who are 100 percent BIASED say something and people who are not reds are just supposed to take their word for it? You might as well give it up if that is the best you can do.

[Koo82]

One more to spice up the discussion?

RTA. You know what it is. Took by the reds on 13th April:

Edited May 11, 2009 by Koo82

[Jingthing]

You could post 10,000 pictures of the evidence quality you have been posting and it wouldn't make one bit of difference. You will change no minds with propaganda at this LOW level.

[Koo82]

Koo, maybe this stuff plays at the Redhead party, but remember this is an expat forum. Many of us have been on jury duty on courts in the west and understand the rules of evidence for making serious accusations against people. So the red leaders who are 100 percent BIASED say something and people who are not reds are just supposed to take their word for it? You might as well give it up if that is the best you can do.

The fact was the reds were shot by soldiers around 4:00am on 13th April.

[Jingthing]

The fact was the reds were shot by soldiers around 4:00am on 13th April.

So say the RED leaders, right? OK, I quit this now. Carry on, I can see it makes you feel better.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[Koo82]

You could post 10,000 pictures of the evidence quality you have been posting and it wouldn't make one bit of difference. You will change no minds with propaganda at this LOW level.

I'll change nothing. The reds still come out to protest. Those who love Khun Thaksin still love. I love him too.

As in the topic first post, someone in Ubon said they won't come, they never come since beginning anyway. I'm not surprised.

Those who don't support the reds still don't support.

Those who joined the reds still join.

[bertlamar]

I'll change nothing. The reds still come out to protest. Those who love Khun Thaksin still love. I love him too.

As in the topic first post, someone in Ubon said they won't come, they never come since beginning anyway. I'm not surprised.

Those who don't support the reds still don't support.

Those who joined the reds still join.

I guess at least you admit that the red shirt crowd are there because they love Thaksin, and none of this crap about democracy that they pretended to spout prior to running riot, literally, and threatening delegates etc in Pattaya.

As for those gunshot pictures and all the rest of the red shirt propaganda you love to spout, I would point out, sometimes after hanging out with the sex workers from Isaan (of which there are a lot, probably more now than ever before thanks to the wonderful poverty inducing schemes of TRT in Isaan) I come down with something.

With a wicked dose of VD or whatever, I can assure you pi$$Ing feels exactly like those bullets you are showing, and sometimes the power of the stream is enough to dent metal.

Sadly, I did not get the chance to pi$$ all over the faces of the red shirt moron leaders that you worship, but in future if they are not nearly as thuggish and uncontrolled with total mob mentality and a bunch of booze, rest assured, let me know and I'll be the first to provide some much needed medical assistance for jellyfish bites to the face - can start with your best pal Jakapop if you want, I know for various reasons he is likely to enjoy.

Nothing will change; people loved Hitler, people loved Marcos, people love Mugabe; I guess that's the beauty of democracy. And having a population where no matter how stupid you think the average Thai person is, at least 50% of them are more stupid than that. And we at least get to see them all in one group with the same shirt colour :-) bliss.

So long as this time they don't block my house to get to work etc etc and f&^*k up my own life, they should feel free to screw up their own areas as much as they want, they are pretty good at that, and no amount of phone ins are going to improve things but fortunately for Thaksin, he has given enough crumbs to make them think they are happy and better off as all their stuff gets repossessed.

Edited May 11, 2009 by bertlamar

[Koo82]

I guess at least you admit that the red shirt crowd are there because they love Thaksin, and none of this crap about democracy that they pretended to spout prior to running riot, literally, and threatening delegates etc in Pattaya.

What's wrong with loving a Prime Minister who made Thailand a strong country?

Khun Thaksin made us know that the party we voted for could change a lot.

Before Khun Thaksin came to be Prime Minister, we never thought our votes could change Thailand. We were in the so so stage for so many years. Many PMs came and went. Nothing was seen as change.

We did not watch politics too. Who ever became PM was fine. We thought someone from the ruling class must be PM because they were the best. Because they were the same: good, good, well, well. Actually what they did were never brought out to check or discuss.

Until Khun Thaksin came, we know that when the "one person one vote" runs, our business got better so we have money in banks, people have jobs, farmers had better lives, Thailand could give loans to other countries. Our PM was very proud when shaking hands with world leaders because he came from the people, from elections, not from army's help, not from a coup, not from appointments.

Things went back to the dark past when the coup 2006 took away the PM we love. We see the difference of our lives when Khun Thaksin was here and when army was here.

Without Khun Thaksin, we might not come out to call for democracy. In our mind, democracy is simply one person one vote with no coup.

[Koo82]

With a wicked dose of VD or whatever, I can assure you pi$$Ing feels exactly like those bullets you are showing, and sometimes the power of the stream is enough to dent metal.

What do you think about the pictures being posted when PAD was fired by tear gas on 7th October last year?

The fact is more than 100 reds, not 77, were injured that day, 13th April. They were in hospitals. The fact is soldiers did shoot the reds using real bullets.

[khonkaen man]

Army to monitor red shirt rally Sunday evening

First Army Area Commander Lt Gen Kanit Sapithak said Sunday that the Army will closely monitor the rally of the red-shirted movement in Bangkok Sunday evening.

Kanit said although police did not request the military's help to deal with the rally, the Army would closely monitor the demonstration at the Phai Khiew Temple.

The Nation 2009/05/10

Anybody still in doubt as to who is running the country these days and since 2006? Haven't they got any Burmese or Cambodians to shoot at these days? No women and children to herd into squalid holding camps in the northern jungles?

Army move in without any request from, police, Governor or Abhisit.

Speaks volumes to those with ears to hear it!!! Sorry some of you guys are still not getting it, but the rest of us and the rest of the world certainly are.

Good luck with your anti-thaksin rants and paranoia. You will wake up one day and some of these goons will have enacted the most racist (against the majority of Thais who are not skin whitener junkies) anti-falang set of policies asia has seen in a long time.

Great Post

At least there are some people on here who appear to grasp the political situation in Thailand. Only thing I would question is 2006? Look at the amount of coups, 1 every 4 years on average. The army are paid by the elite to keep them the elite. You can be a tourist here and spend your $2000 then go home but we dont want you living here and giving the 'great unwashed' your views on democracy, wealth redistribution etc. We have not spent all this money on education making sure the kids dont get an education for you stupid farangs to enlighten them for free

[keepsamuiclean]

"Without Khun Thaksin, we might not come out to call for democracy. In our mind, democracy is simply one person one vote with no coup."...

Now you are almost without Khun Thaksin - seems that he forgot teaching you what democracy is about.. Not only ONE PERSON! But do not worry your Messias has no clue either...

[Jingthing]

Sorry some of you guys are still not getting it, but the rest of us and the rest of the world certainly are.

I guess the USA government isn't getting it either, as they condemned the violent revolution attempt of fugitive Thaksin.

So its all about who is more xenophobic to you? That is very narrow and quite a contest. Thai Rak Thai indeed ...

Oh and which group attacked the Asean conference of world leaders? Hint: it wasn't the democrats.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[sriracha john]

Looks like rain interrupted Jatuporns rant. The only people listening are the propagandized reds now to the third party and PM wasn't in car and all the conspiracy nonsense. These dues used to accuse Thanong of being an out of control conspiracy theorist, well look at them now. It is cuckoo land

Even red sympathisers up country are starting to get a little embarrassed by it when you mention it to them. In short people believe what they saw ie red rioters going berserk and the LPG tanker in the Din Daeng flats was a massive own goal.

The shame is that some of the red demands were reasonable but now the lunatic leaders are undermining all of these by idiotic and baseless claims that they cant substantiate even after weeks. The leaders cant even face up to admitting they lost control and weren't every good leaders. Mind you nobody would expect the odious little Jatuporn to fess up to anything.

Numbers seem to be down a smidgen this month compared to last, also....

Even the red sympathisers up north in the family's villages were quite disgusted by the red riot. Their reactions mirror the mentioned Ubon ones. The reds need to stop the conspiracy nonsense, stop the violence and get back to talking democracy if they want to recapture support.It will be hard with people like Jatuporn mouthing off. He is despised by lots of people for non-political reasons to start with.

More and more are turning away from the Reds after their Songkran Riots fiasco....

Famous abbot attacks Thaksin

Wat Suan Kaew abbot Phra Payom Kallayano has come out against ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra after allegations that the fugitive millionaire pulled the strings behind the Songkran riots.

In an interview with Kom Chad Luek daily newspaper, the monk who drew controversy after he allowed the pro-Thaksin protesters or the red shirts to hold their rally in his temple in Nonthaburi late last year was asked what characteristics of politicians he believed was vital in helping to build a good society.

The abbot said politicians must have compassion and must not be destructive. They should be giving and should not have spite and resentment. "I believe Thaksin is not good because he used hatred and succumbed to enviousness,'' the monk said.

The outspoken monk said after the red shirts held an anti-government rally at his temple, many Buddhists had stopped making donations to his temple. It has now runs into financial difficulty because it shoulders big expenses incurred from providing job trainings to thousands of unemployed people.

-- The Nation 2009-05-11

================================================================

from earlier, pre-Songkran Riots time...

The third mobile Truth Today kicked off with Wat Suan Kaew abbot Phra Payom Kallayano sitting on the stage to monitor the show to ensure there would be no mudslinging, no use of abusive and provocative language and no allegations.

The abbot said he would like to listen to humble speech rather than attacks. After one hour, the monk left the stage to monitor the talk show inside his monastery.

Jaturon said the PAD had violated Buddhist precepts because its leaders provoked their followers to fight instead of resorting to a peaceful struggle.

Edited May 11, 2009 by sriracha john

[Jingthing]

"I believe Thaksin is not good because he used hatred and succumbed to enviousness,'' the monk said.

I like this monk!

[kenai]

Sorry some of you guys are still not getting it, but the rest of us and the rest of the world certainly are.

I guess the USA government isn't getting it either, as they condemned the violent revolution attempt of fugitive Thaksin.

So its all about who is more xenophobic to you? That is very narrow and quite a contest. Thai Rak Thai indeed ...

Oh and which group attacked the Asean conference of world leaders? Hint: it wasn't the democrats.

Yes the US (gov) condemned the "Violence" as myself and many people who support their movement did. Few people want to see violence and bloodshed.

The US gov. certainly does not condemn peaceful protest by citizens concerned for their countries direction and democracy.

btw- they also condemned the coup that you said you supported, in another thread.

A US state department spokesman, Tom Casey, said there was "no justification" for the coup.

"It is a step backward for democracy," he added. (BBC)

[Jingthing]

A US state department spokesman, Tom Casey, said there was "no justification" for the coup.

"It is a step backward for democracy," he added. (BBC)

Correction. That was under Bush, a man who brought "democracy" to Iraq and also Iran style sharia law, repression of women, and murders of gays. We did a reboot. The current smart man in US power is MUCH smarter.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[HagenvonTronje]

A US state department spokesman, Tom Casey, said there was "no justification" for the coup.

"It is a step backward for democracy," he added. (BBC)

Correction. That was under Bush, a man who brought "democracy" to Iraq and also Iran style sharia law, repression of women, and murders of gays. We did a reboot. The current smart man in US power is MUCH smarter.

"Finally, there is Clinton's decision to make Indonesia, and not Thailand, her sole stop in Southeast Asia. Thailand has long been considered the key strategic U.S. partner in the region, but its leaders have increasingly become anti-democratic. The country now finds itself on the cusp of a revolution or coup. Clinton's slighting of Thailand is significant, but her stop in Indonesia, which recently completed a democratic transition of power, may be the bigger story."

Huffington Post: Clinton's Asia Trip: Engaging U.S. Geopolitics, Reshaping Her Family's Legacy, 17.02.2009

[Jingthing]

Correction, that was BEFORE the Asean attack and Songkran fiasco. I can assure you that in current situation, Madame Clinton will be much more sympathetic with PM Abhisit than scoundrel Thaksin. Things changed RADICALLY after that. It is now clear Thaksin is FINISHED Clinton did not want to signal any kind of support in such a foggy situation and risk picking the losing side (a common American mistake). It is much less foggy now. That is also just a commentary and theory, not anything Clinton said. I think they are right to stay on the sidelines for awhile but the comment against the red shirt violence was a strong hint that the US side is really in the process of shifting and warming towards Abhisit. Abhisit, btw, compromised though he may be, is not INSANE like Thaksin.

Like I said:

Hillary Clinton to attend Asian summit

Phuket in July.

Mrs Clinton hoped to strengthen the long-term ties between Thailand and Washington during her visit

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/asia/14153...nd-asian-summit

Edited May 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[kenai]

Correction, that was BEFORE the Asean attack and Songkran fiasco. I can assure you that in current situation, Madame Clinton will be much more sympathetic with PM Abhisit than scoundrel Thaksin. Things changed RADICALLY after that. It is now clear Thaksin is FINISHED Clinton did not want to signal any kind of support in such a foggy situation and risk picking the losing side (a common American mistake). It is much less foggy now. That is also just a commentary and theory, not anything Clinton said.

Jingthing, you certainly do amuse me, and I admire your determination.

If you are serious.

The events in April, if they did anything, they showed the world how weak and frail and divided this country is. Nothing has magically changed or been cured.

April did nothing to aid Thailand and US relations whatsoever.

[Jingthing]

See above new edits you missed which support my point very well. I agree Thailand is still in crisis. However, one thing is resolved. Thaksin will NEVER, EVER be PM of Thailand again, and that is a beginning.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[HagenvonTronje]

See above new edits you missed with support my point very well. I agree Thailand is still in crisis. However, one thing is resolved. Thaksin will NEVER, EVER be PM of Thailand again, and that is a beginning.

that she comes later, change nothing on the significance that thailand was not on her visit list in february.

but keep on reading statements of the Foreign Minister Kasit in the Bangkok Post and what he said, Madame Clinton had said.

the same Kasit who said about the airport seizure was

?

remember what the US said at this time? : "The United States is deeply concerned about the actions of the People’s Alliance for Democracy (PAD) in seizing Bangkok's international and domestic airports, preventing the free movement of people and goods. While we respect the right to freedom of expression, seizing an airport is not an appropriate means of protest. We urge the PAD to walk away from the airports peacefully. We hope that this situation can be resolved without violence and in accordance with the law."

US are not choosing any sides here, that are just diplomatic statements and of course, it includes that violence is condemned. nobody likes that. but it doesn't mean that Obama is now a member in the Abhisit fan boy club.

and if that handsome face that can only reign with the help of the military is finally chased out of office or not needed anymore as proxy, there will no help or tears by the US, just the diplomatic wish of hope that the new force can do it better.

in an international view is Abhisit, the outcome of the silent coup and the qua democrat of a strong military power. but diplomats talking with everybody.

get real, google Abhisit, the second hit: Profile: Abhisit Vejjajiva - Times Online read it, read it until the end. that is what they think about him outside the fan club. and with songkran he didn't collect anymore plus points.

[Jingthing]

Stop twisting what I said! I never said the US is in his fan boy club. I am not in his fan boy club either, its just that he is clearly better than Thaksin and the red violent thugs. I said things have changed after Songkran, here and internationally.There is nothing in the Times profile informed people didn't know already, DUH. If the US really hated Abhisit, especially after the Asean attack in Pattaya, Clinton would NOT attend Asean in Phuket. A successful Asean conference especially after the disaster in Pattaya HELPS Abhisit politically. Thailand is not Iran to the USA. It can work with Abhisit and now it is clear Thaksin is NEVER coming back. They realize now the entire red/Thaksin movement has gone beyond the pale, another one to put on the dustbin of history.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Jingthing

[HagenvonTronje]

Stop twisting what I said! I never said the US is in his fan boy club. I am not in his fan boy club either, its just that he is clearly better than Thaksin and the red violent thugs. I said things have changed after Songkran, here and internationally.There is nothing in the Times profile informed people didn't know already, DUH. If the US really hated Abhisit, especially after the Asean attack in Pattaya, Clinton would NOT attend Asean in Phuket. A successful Asean conference especially after the disaster in Pattaya HELPS Abhisit politically. Thailand is not Iran to the USA. It can work with Abhisit and now it is clear Thaksin is NEVER coming back. They realize now the entire red/Thaksin movement has gone beyond the pale, another one to put on the dustbin of history.

okay, Hillary isn't in the thaksin hate club. that statement hat the US condems the violence on songkran, is a normal diplomatic statement that occurs in such situation. there is not really an intention to support Abhisit. and i don't think the US would had boycotted or not attend a regular ASEAN conference under somchai or samak. and hypothetical APEC meetings with Obama, instead of Bush would have brought pictures of smiling Obama next to Thaksin.

there is not much points to win, with that offical US statement to songkran. that also not means that the Thai-US relation have a new quality. get it? or do i have to use CAPS?

ruler who rely on the military and need the army come to town to solve the rulers problem and admire them for that, that is something what belongs into the dustbin of history. and sooner ro later Abhisit will be exactly there. the red movement isn't a thaksin movement.

[Jingthing]

If the US wanted to snub Abhisit, they would send a lower level functionary or nobody. Sending Hillary Clinton is giving MAJOR FACE to Abhisit when you consider what this Asean summit recovery means to Abhisit. I do not believe this is an accident so we will have to agree to disagree.

The red movement isn't a Thaksin movement? Oh, you believe that, huh? why am I bothering talking to you. It shouldn't be I'll give you that.

March 30, 2009

OK, she's a sweet old lady. Nothing personal, grans.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Jingthing

[sriracha john]

The red movement isn't a Thaksin movement? Oh, you believe that, huh? why am I bothering talking to you.

the red movement isn't a thaksin movement.

Edited May 12, 2009 by sriracha john

[hammered]

The red movement isn't a Thaksin movement? Oh, you believe that, huh? why am I bothering talking to you.

the red movement isn't a thaksin movement.

The problem of the red movement is that there are good pro-democracy people in there but that they are allied with noxious elements that dont care about any of that stuff. That partly explains the red riot and the limited suppor tin parts of teh country. It is a good reason for the reds to now split with these unsavoury violent and anti-democratic elements. The arguement that Thailand is a developing democracy and so alliances of convenience must be made fell apart in the hail of petrol bombs live on TV on Songkhran day.

Of course the red movement is connected haevily to Thaksin right now. They need to change that ASAP of forever remain just a used pawn in a power game.

[HagenvonTronje]

If the US wanted to snub Abhisit, they would send a lower level functionary or nobody. Sending Hillary Clinton is giving MAJOR FACE to Abhisit when you consider what this Asean summit recovery means to Abhisit. I do not believe this is an accident so we will have to agree to disagree.

The red movement isn't a Thaksin movement? Oh, you believe that, huh? why am I bothering talking to you. It shouldn't be I'll give you that.

hypothetical, if there would be a government with thaksins wife as foreign minister and their former gardener as PM (a man from the south, from the 8 million people living there) would you cry foul and proxy, proxy, puppet and write a letter to your congress man and demand a boycott of thailand?

but even then Hillary would come for a visit.

and yes, the reds you can not reduce to thaksin only and him alone. with the image thaksin as evil master mind who pay every protester 500 baht and brainwash them. such simplifying is stupid.

there are a lot of points not to like thaksin. valid points, and for a couple of the same reason should Abhisit met with rejection too. everything else is hypocrisy.

[justanothercybertosser]

The problem of the red movement is that there are good pro-democracy people in there but that they are allied with noxious elements that dont care about any of that stuff. That partly explains the red riot and the limited suppor tin parts of teh country. It is a good reason for the reds to now split with these unsavoury violent and anti-democratic elements. The arguement that Thailand is a developing democracy and so alliances of convenience must be made fell apart in the hail of petrol bombs live on TV on Songkhran day.

Of course the red movement is connected haevily to Thaksin right now. They need to change that ASAP of forever remain just a used pawn in a power game.

And the government's claims of due process of the law and the upholding of the democratic system fell apart with the use of the Blue Shirt militia in Pattaya, who have initiated the violence there. As long as the government refuses to accept their part of the responsibility it has very little rights to accuse the Red Shirts of the offenses the government is equally guilty of.

Abhisit even publicly stated that he will use during the upcoming summit in Phuket again "citicens" together with the security forces to protect the venue against possible protesters.

Democracy? Rule of law?