Too Old To "tango"..? (but Still Want To!)

[ChrisP]

There's a feeling amongst some of us (me included!) that one of the bennies of living in LOS is the almost complete lack of concern by Thai guys for age - "age-phobia" - in a lover compared to the west...

This may sound shallow... (God I hope not!) but that's just one good reason why I'm on my way here. Why stay in the USA - especially California - just to be snubbed by 99% of the attractive, younger gay men.??! Why stay where you're not appreciated?

The feeling is clear - just read the ads - "No-one over 40". "Sorry only guys 20-35 need reply." "Not looking for a Daddy". You're over the hill - especially at 52!

Occaisionally in the US I've found the rare younger guy who REALLY prefers a more "mature" man.. but jeez, it's VERY few and far between. And I can't wait that long.

NOT so in LOS - where I've even heard comments of "You're not old enough yet.."!

I have a great partner and lover in LOS right now (he's 21 in looks, but not in mind). He's ALWAYS dated older western men, and definitely prefers that. I hope we last MANY years. But if we don't, at least I know I won't be scraping around BKK for months seeking another lover that I find attractive.. like here in the USA.

...we walked the jetty and the (scantily clad) fishermen were all giggles and flashing eyes, and when I shook hands with one they all queued up for a handshake. Thailand - so much fun for so little money!

LOL... Exactly... and why not! I deserve it.

ChrisP

Edited February 4, 2005 by ChrisP

[Ijustwannateach]

of course...

I've heard so many of these stories here. Something about unreliable father figures, I think, along with association of age with respect. One of the most popular guys I know here is in his 80s!

[peter991]

Hi there ChrisP. The USA is not the only country with age-phobia. I think all the so-called first world Western countries suffer from it - both for gays and straights.

Thailand is my first choice for 3 reasons: The Bhuddist religion and what it teaches; the respect for elder people by young people and the fact that everything is so much cheaper than in the west.

Add to that the charming / loveable Thai guys and this is paradise. If only Mr Thaksin would make it easier for us to be with our teeraks what a truly wonderful place it would be.

Even getting a visa for a Thai guy to visit Australia is a hassle.

[ChrisP]

Try getting a tourist visa for a young single Thai guy to visit the USA..!

ChrisP

[jdinasia]

Just out of curiosity, for those of you that feel "over-the-hill" at home ... how many of us date guys our own age? Or are they all too old? Just does not seem fair to call other people ageist when we are only looking for younger guys does it?

I mean really! the "they are ageist" but I am looking for a younger guy thing seems a bit thin no? Wouldn't it be a bit more accurate to say "We westerners are ageist, including myself, so I look to Thailand where less people seem to think that way"?

Then when it comes to the trade-off, that many younger guys that date older guys are looking to improve their living situations and prospects in addition to love we bitch and bitch.

Edited February 5, 2005 by jdinasia

[Ijustwannateach]

^It's true there's a bi of a double standard... though I think there's more of a societal bias against age back in the states (which we often internalize- with hardly any other choice available). There's probably some natural tendency to consider the young beautiful as a result of linkage to fertility. On the other hand, considering the nurturing aspect of things, there's some advantage to choosing a settled, mature mate who won't be flitting around sleeping with everybody. I think here (and in Japan, where the financial stuff isn't really an issue) these two tendencies are more balanced than in the west.

I've had a little experience with some guys who were quite a bit older than I was, and it didn't hurt me any! But being honest with myself, I prefer a partner somewhat younger than I am. Actually, the perfect balance for me might be a partner who *is* my age, but looks a bit younger, as many Thai do.

"Steven"

[ChrisP]

We westerners are ageist, including myself, so I look to Thailand where less people seem to think that way"?

^^ jdinasia Yes, I think I agree with you.. Maybe ours is a reverse ageist bias!

ChrisP

[ProThaiExpat]

About this time, three years ago, while still in the US., I spent a lot of time in Gay.com Bangkok chat room. It was rare indeed then to enounter age bias. Not so much any more. Take a look if you don't believe me.

I think many Thais are becoming Westernized, especially those who live in BKK and have absorbed much of the west's culture. Sad really.

Having always preferred younger and knowing the age bias in California, I always "advertised" in the personal columns, before chat rooms. By putting my "qualifications" out there and then ended the ad with my age, by that time I hoped they would be slavering and my age wouldn't seem very important. Thus I avoided countless hours in pick up joints, costly meals and far too many rejections.

Since older are not cruised in California, in fact they glance away as if you had a

disease, I am unaccoustomed to being cruised, thus the uncomfortable feeling when it happens here. In fact, I think I now know why I don't look around as I go shopping at the mall, as my western country experiences taught me not to do so I wouldn't be branded a "dirty old man"

While traveling in Europe with my 20 year old lover, I was in my early forties, I would encounter fellow vacationers who were often friendly or who we encountered repeatedly as our paths crossed at various tourist spots.

Some who had the nerve to ask, rarely Europeans, if my "friend" was my nephew? My response if I liked them was "Yes" If I didn't like them, my response was, "No, he is my lover, we have been together since he was nine!!!" The look on their faces when they got the latter response was pure joy to me.

Our relationship lasted 6 years and was mutually rewarding.

Many desireable younger men will only date their age group as they can't deal with the ups and downs experienced by the young. Likewise, in California, the motto is "No Car, No Job , No Condo, No Date" Likewise the type of response you give to each question makes a big difference, ie. brand, type of job etc. Such qualifications only severly limit once options and certainly leads to ghettoization with a gay ghetto. If your not on the "A" list, your just not anyone!!! People to avoid, straight or gay. Excuse me, I omitted "Which Gym"? Not "Do you go to a Gym?"

For a guy who has competed for everything since childhood, it is great to get out of the "rat race". here in Thailand, especially in retirement. I used to comment quite often "If I was a rat, this would be a rat race". There is even a theory of homosexuality that professes that, it is the pubescent young mans unwillingness to try to live up to the western societies ideal man image, that causes him to take refuge in going gay.

[Steve2UK]

Always thought my case was strange............

Up until I was about 25, I was always attracted to guys older than me. After that, it was (nearly always) to guys younger than me.

[peter991]

If I can quote PTE: There is even a theory of homosexuality that professes that, it is the pubescent young mans unwillingness to try to live up to the western societies ideal man image, that causes him to take refuge in going gay.

What a very interesting theory. A science progressively answers our questions hopefully some theories will have answers. Personally, I agree with that one. I also think being gay is a combination of heredity and environment.

I guess that a Westerners viewpoint. As far as Thais are concerned, it is just natural. I remember reading about a 22 year old Pattaya go-go boy who was working to support his wife and young child.

Sexuality to Thais is not as important to them. They have higher priorities, it seems.

[PeaceBlondie]

Peter991, you lost me with that theory. 'pubescent' generally means, I think, ages 12 to 14, not 'young man.' No, a pre-pubescent who refuses to grow up (to go through puberty) is Peter Pan, who never even begins to grow up.

Is that theory suggesting that older teenagers who don't want to become responsible adults, become gay instead? Sounds like rubbish! In the West, most teenagers from 13 to 19 don't want to grow up, and they spend all the teenage years in an isolated adolescent subculture that doesn't seriously consider career, marriage, etc. In fact, lots of the adoles.subsculture now has a fad of bisexuality. The neighborhood's Leonardo DiCaprio lookalike that came to me when he was 19 and begged me to 'take him' has since married..........a woman.

[PeaceBlondie]

Back to the topic: Yes, there's far less ageism here than in the West. I was perusing the 'gaylife' magazine from the UK and it's so geared to young people (at least the photos) that I wouldn't try to connect with somebody if I were visiting the UK (in fact, I didn't, last year).

But there still is ageism here, of a lesser type. If you're not talking about the money directly or indirectly, yes age matters. Still, there are far more gay young men here who are attracted to older men, than in the West.

Is it a double standard, or hypocrisy? No more than preferring a certain race or skin color or body shape.

[jdinasia]

Nah ... liking a "type" does not count as having a double standard. Unless you bitch about people not wanting the "type" you happen to be.