Red Shirts Set Up At Sanam Luang

[animatic]

Well, achmmm, these shots all must be first hand taken by Koo who now has

an all access pass for Red Shirt stage and technical departments.

And we can see her hob-knobing with all the good gentlemen of the 2nd generation....

And no 1st generation gentlemen are there doing anything against their terms of bail...

No one is feeding her pictiures, purposely with NO DATE showing,

since she now has learned to turn the shooting date off on her camera.

No, nothing to say she isn't being used by the Reds for her propaganda value here.

NOT!

Maybe, instead of employing the strategy of character assassination, you can take your own photos at the rallies and post them here. If you feel that these photos of Koo82 are fake, then please, prove your point by posting your own images from Sanam Luang.

Well said. Put up, or shut up, Animatic.

I actually like Koo, I have for some time.

She is sincere, which is more than I can say for several here,

BUT, I just suspect she is being used.

1 ) I need not put up,

since I have no intention of EVER going to a red rally for pictures or not.

2 ) I need not shut up,

because I don't believe Koo actually took ALL those pictures herself.

3 ) That isn't in any sense of character assignation, she never SAID she took them...

but just ascertaining the actual source, and thus her proximity to the Red powers that be.

Where do these back stage and close up shots come from?

Her camera?

Is she on committees now?

Is she being ushered around for photo ops to sway the TVF membership?

Fair play questions, since she portrays herself as a legitimate window on the Reds world.

[justanothercybertosser]

1 ) I need not put up,

since I have no intention of EVER going to a red rally for pictures or not.

That says it all.

I guess it makes it easier to serial post yellow propaganda on the net when your views are not skewed by this thing called real life experience.

[sriracha john]

Maybe, instead of employing the strategy of character assassination, you can take your own photos at the rallies and post them here. If you feel that these photos of Koo82 are fake, then please, prove your point by posting your own images from Sanam Luang.

Reason for edit: Flaming removed - LivinginKata

because I don't believe Koo actually took ALL those pictures herself.

3 ) That isn't in any sense of character assignation, she never SAID she took them...

but just ascertaining the actual source, and thus her proximity to the Red powers that be.

Where do these back stage and close up shots come from?

Her camera?

Is she on committees now?

Is she being ushered around for photo ops to sway the TVF membership?

Fair play questions, since she portrays herself as a legitimate window on the Reds world.

He/She was told nearly 4 months ago by Admin to provide the source for his/her photos if they are from others, so we can only presume that all his/her repeated postings of photos without it means that all photos posted are his/her personal photos.

< snipped >

I do hope that those are your photos you are posting here and not posting some news source's photos without acknowledging the source.

Edited May 17, 2009 by sriracha john

[Richard W]

He/She was told nearly 4 months ago by Admin to provide the source for his/her photos if they are from others, so we can only presume that all his/her repeated postings of photos without it means that all photos posted are his/her personal photos.

< snipped >

I do hope that those are your photos you are posting here and not posting some news source's photos without acknowledging the source.

Does it matter who took them if Koo has permission to treat them as her own? The only issue I see is the dating of the photos - but is it so difficult to fake dates if need be? (Koo's already addressed the dating of pictures of the stage.)

[animatic]

1 ) I need not put up,

since I have no intention of EVER going to a red rally for pictures or not.

That says it all.

I guess it makes it easier to serial post yellow propaganda on the net when your views are not skewed by this thing called real life experience.

I am not a yellow, never have been never met a yellow to my knowlege.

I am not for the Reds since they are clearly

a puppet for Thaksin getting his power and money back.

I can NEVER support that, because I have seen the bad actions of Thaksin/TRT first hand.

Not being for the Reds doesn't mean you are Yellow.

If anything I would be orange.

Middle of the road and hated by both extremes.

[animatic]

He/She was told nearly 4 months ago by Admin to provide the source for his/her photos if they are from others, so we can only presume that all his/her repeated postings of photos without it means that all photos posted are his/her personal photos.

< snipped >

I do hope that those are your photos you are posting here and not posting some news source's photos without acknowledging the source.

Does it matter who took them if Koo has permission to treat them as her own? The only issue I see is the dating of the photos - but is it so difficult to fake dates if need be? (Koo's already addressed the dating of pictures of the stage.)

I think the point about ascertaining the actual source of the photos,

goes to ascertaining WHO is feeding us this information about the Reds.

This question becomes valid because of the distinct changes in Koo's posting

even in the SAME posting, that has change noticably during the last several months.

What was once her hagiography for Thaksin, now comes across more professionally scripted.

Not saying Koo doesn't post it, or believe it, but the presence of another hand involved is noticeable.

The Admin warning about proper attribution still stands if she HERSELF did NOT shoot the images.

She may well have permission, not saying she doesn't, but from what entity?

If it IS the Redshirt Leadership assigning someone to coach her, then that might well be

a political entity trying to do or sway politics on the TVF bbbs counter to TVF rules.

Discussing politics or having differing opinions is not the same as

an organization actively trying to manipulate the TVF.

Edited May 18, 2009 by animatic

[jumnien]

Go Red Go, Let Freedom Ring!

More photos, please!

[sbk]

Thai Visa is concerned that these photos belong to someone else yet are being published without permission and without attribution .

[TAWP]

Go reds, go. Best of luck.

Atleast you have now abandoned your charade of pretending to be neutral and objective.

Refreshing.

[jumnien]

Go reds, go. Best of luck.

Atleast you have now abandoned your charade of pretending to be neutral and objective.

Refreshing.

At least he's intelligent!

[TAWP]

Go reds, go. Best of luck.

Atleast you have now abandoned your charade of pretending to be neutral and objective.

Refreshing.

At least he's intelligent!

That is what separates him from you?

You might be right...

[justanothercybertosser]

If anything I would be orange.

Middle of the road and hated by both extremes.

Oh you martyr, you...

It is rather amazing that you have never spoken with people of either camp, yet have such strong opinions on the issue - not being yellow, yet the tone of your posts follow yellow propaganda almost to the letter.

How would you know that the Reds are "clearly a puppet for Thaksin getting his power and money back"? You have never been at one of the protests, don't speak with Red protesters, and i seriously doubt that you have ever listened to any of the speeches on the stages. How do you form your opinions, please? At least, lacking real life experience, can you cite any study (beyond newspaper articles) you read that helped you to come to your conclusions, so we can somehow follow your logic.

Or is it simply that because Thaksin was "bad", everything else is excused - according to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

[midas]

If anything I would be orange.

Middle of the road and hated by both extremes.

Oh you martyr, you...

It is rather amazing that you have never spoken with people of either camp, yet have such strong opinions on the issue - not being yellow, yet the tone of your posts follow yellow propaganda almost to the letter.

How would you know that the Reds are "clearly a puppet for Thaksin getting his power and money back"? You have never been at one of the protests, don't speak with Red protesters, and i seriously doubt that you have ever listened to any of the speeches on the stages. How do you form your opinions, please? At least, lacking real life experience, can you cite any study (beyond newspaper articles) you read that helped you to come to your conclusions, so we can somehow follow your logic.

Or is it simply that because Thaksin was "bad", everything else is excused - according to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

animatic, have you ever sat down with rural people in the heart of Isaan and had someone

translate as they tell you how they really feel ? I have. Your sterotyping that the Reds are "clearly

a puppet for Thaksin getting his power and money back" astonishing !

Many people I met dont so much care about Thaksin - but they do care that have had enough !

They want to be heard and they want their opinions to count in their own country

[churchill]

Red shirts rally in front of Parliament

Red-shirt people rally in front of Parliament Monday morning, demanding that their version of charter draft be taken up for deliberation.

Eight companies of police from the Metropolitan Police Bureau were deployed to keep security. They put up metal barricades in front of the Parliament.

Commando police and water trucks are also positioned inside the compound of Parliament.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/30102...t-of-Parliament

-- The Nation 18/05/09

[animatic]

The elected the Friend's of Newin Faction to represent them. That is still happening.

I think you are trying to acknowledge that the same 'Friends of Newin the Banned' are now supporting your mate Abhisit, right?

At the start, you used to vilify corruption in any shape or form. Then, that horrid reality about Abhisit cuddling up to Newin was explained to you. Now, you accept Newin because he is a 'nice' corrupt ex-TRT/PPP godfather and deserves to be rehabilitated.

Like it or not,

I am ONLY noting that Newin's faction is still representing their constituents on parliament.

That they are NOT any long aligned with Thaksin's faction, is the Red point of contention.

They have their democratic representation in the SAME horse trading way they had under Thaksin.

But no Thaksin.

I do not like corruption, but the realities of ~Thai politcs,

only allow for gradually limiting corruption gradually over time.

As much as I would preffer an greatly accelerated version.

Reality must be dealt with not just hypothetical Utopian desires.

In 3-4 years Newin may be the New Thaksin, and that is likely not a good thing.

Thailand will have to deal with that too. Do I like that... you can guess.

[animatic]

If anything I would be orange.

Middle of the road and hated by both extremes.

Oh you martyr, you...

It is rather amazing that you have never spoken with people of either camp, yet have such strong opinions on the issue - not being yellow, yet the tone of your posts follow yellow propaganda almost to the letter.

How would you know that the Reds are "clearly a puppet for Thaksin getting his power and money back"? You have never been at one of the protests, don't speak with Red protesters, and i seriously doubt that you have ever listened to any of the speeches on the stages. How do you form your opinions, please? At least, lacking real life experience, can you cite any study (beyond newspaper articles) you read that helped you to come to your conclusions, so we can somehow follow your logic.

Or is it simply that because Thaksin was "bad", everything else is excused - according to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

animatic, have you ever sat down with rural people in the heart of Isaan and had someone

translate as they tell you how they really feel ? I have. Your sterotyping that the Reds are "clearly

a puppet for Thaksin getting his power and money back" astonishing !

Many people I met dont so much care about Thaksin - but they do care that have had enough !

They want to be heard and they want their opinions to count in their own country

martyr ??? LOL hardly!

If BOTH extremes dislike my positions,

well that just goes to show their extremity,

or dislocation from the mainstream or silent majority.

Actually 2 Issan people are right outside my door at the moment.

I have lonmg ago ascertained their opinions of the red and yellow movements.

I have never met George Bush, but the preponderance of info available tells me I can not like him.

I have 1st and second hand real life experience to say Thaksin should never be allowed in power again.

Maybe the yellow propaganda happens to reflect partial opinions of my own,

but those opinions are not formed by yellow propaganda, nor adhear to yellow thought specifically.

Edited May 18, 2009 by animatic

[justanothercybertosser]

If anything I would be orange.

Middle of the road and hated by both extremes.

Oh you martyr, you...

It is rather amazing that you have never spoken with people of either camp, yet have such strong opinions on the issue - not being yellow, yet the tone of your posts follow yellow propaganda almost to the letter.

How would you know that the Reds are "clearly a puppet for Thaksin getting his power and money back"? You have never been at one of the protests, don't speak with Red protesters, and i seriously doubt that you have ever listened to any of the speeches on the stages. How do you form your opinions, please? At least, lacking real life experience, can you cite any study (beyond newspaper articles) you read that helped you to come to your conclusions, so we can somehow follow your logic.

Or is it simply that because Thaksin was "bad", everything else is excused - according to "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"?

animatic, have you ever sat down with rural people in the heart of Isaan and had someone

translate as they tell you how they really feel ? I have. Your sterotyping that the Reds are "clearly

a puppet for Thaksin getting his power and money back" astonishing !

Many people I met dont so much care about Thaksin - but they do care that have had enough !

They want to be heard and they want their opinions to count in their own country

martyr ??? LOL hardly!

If BOTH extremes dislike my positions,

well that just goes to show their extremity,

or dislocation from the mainstream or silent majority.

Actually 2 Issan people are right outside my door at the moment.

I have lonmg ago ascertained their opinions of the red and yellow movements.

I have never met George Bush, but the preponderance of info available tells me I can not like him.

I have 1st and second hand real life experience to say Thaksin should never be allowed in power again.

Maybe the yellow propaganda happens to reflect partial opinions of my own,

but those opinions are not formed by yellow propaganda, nor adhear to yellow thought specifically.

The yellow extreme hardly dislikes your position as you follow their views very closely. As to available information, yes, there is more than a bit available.

Care to tell us your sources of information, other than two issarn people in front of your door?

Studies, books, etc. you may have read?

As to your obsession with Thaksin, and your mistaken believe that the Reds are only there "to bring Thaksin back into power". But for that i am afraid, you have to make the effort to listen to their speeches yourself.

As to Newin and his faction, he has been the epitome of dirt in Thai politics. But while Thaksin has managed to slightly undermine Newin and his power, in this coalition Newin is able to massively undermine the government for his own ends. If you believe that Thaksin as PM was bad, then wait and see how bad a possible government with Newin as the power behind the Prime Minister will be. maybe even worse than this government, with Suthep (very similar to Newin in all aspects) being the real power behind Abhisit.

The Reds point is not that Newin is not allied with Thaksin, but the way how this present coalition came to place. Such a switch would have demanded an election. The Democrats may have a parliamentary mandate, but they clearly lack an electoral mandate, which in a representative democracy is very important. A judicial and parliamentary coup, reached through very intransperent back door deals, may superficially fulfill the letter of the law, but still is continuing to undermine the democratic system (or the still semi democratic system we have here).

If you care to ask the majority of the Reds, you may find out that they would accept a defeat at the election booth. But they do not accept a prime minister that called for new elections until the day where he came into power, and from that moment invented many reasons why suddenly new elections were not necessary anymore.

[trogers]

Are they still queuing for Bt500/day?

[Sandstone Art]

Are they still queuing for Bt500/day?

Suppose so.

After they went to Parliament this morning and also at the city police headquarter to give moral supports to red shirted leaders who surrendered to face charges of instigating chaos in April.

With the rain, they might get more!

[Plus]

Did Jatuporn surrender?

Last I heard he was still claiming parliamentary immunity.

Speaking of double standards - Democrat MP, Somkiat, faced the charged for his role in PAD protests without hiding behind his MP status.

[DaleBlue]

Thai Visa is concerned that these photos belong to someone else yet are being published without permission and without attribution .

I am thinking the same. Why don't we just remove any RED photos, just keep the YELLOW one for public viewing.

[rixalex]

As to your obsession with Thaksin, and your mistaken believe that the Reds are only there "to bring Thaksin back into power". But for that i am afraid, you have to make the effort to listen to their speeches yourself.

I've listened to their speeches, but wasted my time doing so. It's no different really to listening to the speech of any politician. They just wheel out whatever they think the audience wants to hear and whatever sounds good. Judge politicians by their actions, not the bull that comes out of their mouth.

[ballpoint]

Go reds, go. Best of luck.

Atleast you have now abandoned your charade of pretending to be neutral and objective.

Refreshing.

At least he's intelligent!

That is what separates him from you?

You might be right...

I don't know, they both spend most of the time misquoting the same line from Dr Suess. "Go red go"? What next, green eggs and ham?

Edited May 18, 2009 by ballpoint

[justanothercybertosser]

I've listened to their speeches, but wasted my time doing so. It's no different really to listening to the speech of any politician. They just wheel out whatever they think the audience wants to hear and whatever sounds good. Judge politicians by their actions, not the bull that comes out of their mouth.

Not all speakers of the Reds are politicians, such as Dr. Weng, Prateep Ungsongtham Hata, Prof. Jaran, etc.

Anyhow, this statement sums up the problem Thai politics has faced increasingly - a socially permitted belittling of politicians, so that equally corrupt bureaucrats and generals are allowed to decide upon policy, and the electorate of Thailand has no say in how the country is run. After the '97 constitution there was a beginning consensus under the people that their representatives are also supposed to run the country. That increasing modernization of Thailand was though destroyed by the ultra nationailst and reactionary PAD, and finally with the coup and the '07 constitution, which has given policy back into the hands that have run the country previous to the '97 constitution.

Judge politicians by the actions? Well, right now we live, as Dr. Thitinan Pongsudhirak coined it so well, in an era of an increasingly narrow space for intellectual honesty. And to a large part this is fault of this government. Red Shirts are demonized, and any opponent of this government is put into a box of "Thaksin supporter". Extreme positions dominate the debate, and especially here on this forum as well.

Lese majeste laws are used to silence opposition, regardless of Abhisit's lukewarm promises of doing something so that the law cannot be used that liberally anymore (whatever that may mean). Human rights violations have continued as before.

Reducing the Red Shirts to tools of Thaksin is ignoring the many important social issues that are taken up there in these protests.

Listen again to the speeches - it's not a waste of time.

[rixalex]

Not all speakers of the Reds are politicians, such as Dr. Weng, Prateep Ungsongtham Hata, Prof. Jaran, etc.

If you align yourself with a political movement and publicly promote their values and beliefs, you are a politician of sorts.

[justanothercybertosser]

Not all speakers of the Reds are politicians, such as Dr. Weng, Prateep Ungsongtham Hata, Prof. Jaran, etc.

If you align yourself with a political movement and publicly promote their values and beliefs, you are a politician of sorts.

Is that all you can come up with as an answer?

Intellectually not very stimulating.

[rixalex]

Not all speakers of the Reds are politicians, such as Dr. Weng, Prateep Ungsongtham Hata, Prof. Jaran, etc.

If you align yourself with a political movement and publicly promote their values and beliefs, you are a politician of sorts.

Is that all you can come up with as an answer?

Intellectually not very stimulating.

Oh, and here was me thinking you already had all the answers.

Edited May 18, 2009 by ubonjoe
deleted comments directed at member ubonjoe

[Insight]

Another "rap" on YouTube -

.

This one also contains some interesting translations of what's being said, with supporting clips.

/edit - might as well embed it:

Edited May 18, 2009 by Insight

[Plus]

..the problem Thai politics has faced increasingly - a socially permitted belittling of politicians, so that equally corrupt bureaucrats and generals are allowed to decide upon policy, and the electorate of Thailand has no say in how the country is run.

Just as confusing as red claims for "true democracy". The bottom line is clear, though - save the politicians from the public.

This will the next big battle, imo - people vs politicians.

[Journalist]

The Democrats may have a parliamentary mandate, but they clearly lack an electoral mandate, which in a representative democracy is very important.

Well expressed.

any opponent of this government is put into a box of "Thaksin supporter". Extreme positions dominate the debate, and especially here on this forum as well.

Also good. Most of the people here who express grave reservations about the Abhisit/Newin government and the modus operandi of PAD are not Thaksin supporters, and do not need to be reminded ad nauseam about Thaksin's corruption and convictions.

Sorry, I should say 'CONVICTIONS' !

Edited May 19, 2009 by Journalist