Australian Women Arrested In Phuket Over Bar Mat

[moskito]

after what I read in the Phuket Gazette, I have learned that the Aussi Lady yelled at the officers.....unfortunately she didnt know that she was talking to some gods in brown uniforms, her second fault was not to have a couple of thousand Baht notes in her pocket to apologize like it is BETTER FOR A f....g Farang in LOS.

Nothing will change here and its the best commercial Thailand needs.........Time to change......countries.....btw. War is over in Lanka

dont u ever count on humanity in Thailand.

[Junglejumbo]

I just want to repeat that there is no evidence that she was abusive to the policeman outside of the pub or at the police station. No witness at the police station has said that she was abusive including the police.

However, I continue to keep reading that she was abusive at the police station and ran along the beach.....I don't know about the beach bit but everything about her abuse and running away comes from the bar owner (manager?)....

Please get it right....it may not be correct. He was not there at the time....

Also, the lady says on an interview that she did not run on the beach. She ran across the road because it was raining and the police man caught her on the other side of the road.....

[GungaDin]

^^^ ^^^

taxin........ shut it!

[zemoo]

In my home state in the U.S., a theft of property valued at less than $500 is a 1st degree misdemeanor. The maximum jail sentence for a 1st degree misdemeanor is 6 months in jail, though if it's a first offense, a fine and/or probation would probably be given instead of a jail sentence. Two to five years seems very harsh.

Similar in the UK. And, like your country this leads to repeat offending and a class of petty criminal that knows how far to push the law, how to get legal fees paid, sympathy from lefty social workers etc.

I bet her or her mates never steal in Thailand again! Think they will be angels in Oz?

One thousand bahts worth of beer mat is about right for the quality and size of the one in the picture. One thousand Baht is one third of a months wages to many in the service industry. Had it been a Thai they had stolen from it would have been much much worse and had a Thai been caught stealing 1000 bahts worth of items from another Thai it would have resulted in a severe beating if not worse.

It was not a prank. Please somebody explain how putting this mat in a bag is funny? It was obviously going to be stolen.

I read on another site that this place is totally covered by CCTV cameras at every angle and every table. This system is used when people argue about beer tabs. The customer is shown a video replay of every drink arriving at their table!!! Hope we get to see it soon.

Well said grandpops! - you sound like a guy who's been around for a while.

"Similar in the UK. And, like your country this leads to repeat offending and a class of petty criminal that knows how far to push the law, how to get legal fees paid, sympathy from lefty social workers etc." - and eventually it leads to a culture of nicking things from bars to display as trophies - as in Oz. Yet another example of ignorant tourists who think the whole world should submit to their superior culture and values (or lack of them).

[vahack]

So,this is some Thai scumbags bar and they are putting a tourist in jail for stealing a towel. I suggest you avoid this bar if you're ever in Phuket and tell everyone that you know to avoid it as well.

first of all every traveler should be on their BEST behavior when traveling to a foreign city or country. its all the drunk idiots in Pattaya, BKK and Phuket that make it hard for normal responsible farangs to live a stress free life in Thailand (or any other country).

Second, word should spread to boycott this a$$hole's bar. anyone who puts a customer in prison for stealing anything under $20 in value doesn't deserve to have customers. this should have been resolved between the customer and the bar owner. ruining her life over a souvenir is gonna rack up a lot of bad karma points. not that they care down in the sin & filth regions.

[bonobo]

Most Thais are happy to leave there belongings overnight out in the street as stealing is a big no no here. No bearded social workers turning the victim into the criminal, no brash MS's howling about the whole thing being a male conspiracy. She stole, she was rude. Shouldn't have been!

Phuket gets by nicely with little in the way of drunken holiganism.

Ah, so the person who snatched my camera and wallet during Songkran must have been a foreigner.  And the person who broke into one of my division manager's home and stole just about all her belongings must have been foreign as well. And while the people who gassed the bus of tourists and robbed them looked like Thais and had Thai ids. well, those ids must have been forged.

[lennois]

What part of "SHE IS A THIEF" dont you understand ??!!

geez, i sincerely hope you and your kind are never called up for jury service. Guilty until proven innocent aye mate?

[ericthai]

I cant believe this. The stupid girl stole something, prank or no prank. Go into a 7-11 and try and do a prank like this in the US, UK, AUS etc and see if you don't go to jail. Now everyone that has lived in Thailand for more than a year knows to keep your mouth shut, be polite and a few baht and no problem. Stupid tourists come to Thailand thinking they can do anything and nothing will happen to them because their embassy will protect them, that nothing can happen to them. Someone coming to Thailand should do their homework before they come to learn how to act.

enough said!!

[skippybangkok]

Shake down 4 sure. Come on, have written declarations from staff they have stolen 50k baht from me........... cops could not give a hoot. But a old beer mat........ yeh...........

[rafval]

Most Thais are happy to leave there belongings overnight out in the street as stealing is a big no no here.

where is that, sure isnt anywhere Ive stayed in Thailand

[Boo]

one wonders if anyone reads the actual reports? She didn't steal anything, the mat was placed in her bag & the person who put it in her bag plus the thai staff backed her up on that. There is also nothing reported beyond what the bar owner claimed (the bar owner who wasn't there & witnessed nothing) that she was abusive to the police or anyone else for that matter. The police have yet to make a statement about it so it is pure conjecture by someone who has a vested interest in getting the flak off of him & his bar.

All we know for sure is that "someone" placed a bar mat in her bag & she got arrested for it.

[rafval]

I knew a guy that survived by shoplifting in Bangkok, got caught several times, always called a friend that would pay for the item and give the police some money, eventually no one helped him and he went to jail, still wasnt charged, just had to wait till someone paid his airfare out, so this case seems a little extreme, but then again, I guess he was doing it during the day

Edited May 19, 2009 by rafval

[RJJ]

This story is really gathering a very high profile in Australia, The Australian Prime Minister has now publicly denounced the Thai justice system and vowed to do everything possible to secure her immediate release.

She is doomed now the Prime Minister is involved.

Everytime the PM has become involved in Aussies being arrested has resulted in the execution of the Aussie.

Barlow and Chambers in Malaysia

The case last year of the Aussie guy in Singapore

The 5 friends caugt smuggling drugs (one of the fathers alerted customs but they still executed them all including his son!)

Look how well they helped David Hicks! (Although I believe he is guilty as sin) but the Aussies couldn't get access to him for 2 years.

PS, Bar Mats are a prized (5 fingered) souvenir here in Oz!

[bonobo]

I cant believe this. The stupid girl stole something, prank or no prank. Go into a 7-11 and try and do a prank like this in the US, UK, AUS etc and see if you don't go to jail. Now everyone that has lived in Thailand for more than a year knows to keep your mouth shut, be polite and a few baht and no problem. Stupid tourists come to Thailand thinking they can do anything and nothing will happen to them because their embassy will protect them, that nothing can happen to them. Someone coming to Thailand should do their homework before they come to learn how to act.

enough said!!

In the US, you might very well go to jail for one night before being let out on bail.  And if this is a first offense, depending on what was stolen, you probably won't do any time at all, may get teh case dismissed, or at worst, get a suspended sentence.

[ericthai]

one wonders if anyone reads the actual reports? She didn't steal anything, the mat was placed in her bag & the person who put it in her bag plus the thai staff backed her up on that. There is also nothing reported beyond what the bar owner claimed (the bar owner who wasn't there & witnessed nothing) that she was abusive to the police or anyone else for that matter. The police have yet to make a statement about it so it is pure conjecture by someone who has a vested interest in getting the flak off of him & his bar.

All we know for sure is that "someone" placed a bar mat in her bag & she got arrested for it.

You put it in your bag, or someone else puts it in your bag and you try to leave without paying, what is that a gift?

wake up, in Thailand if you are nice to the police and dont try to run away,(if she did or did not) and are willing to a pay a few baht for something like this, then no problem. Yes, you are right everyone is guessing. But you don't go to jail for something like this unless you made it a big issue IE try to run, make the police look bad, get abusive etc

[bonobo]

I just returned from dinner with 5 Thai friends.  I related this story, and all expressed dismay at the situation.  Not that anyone seemed to care too much for the accused woman (although they seemed to feel the punishment so far was too harsh for the accused crime) , but rather what this is doing to Thailand's reputation yet again.

None of my friends are involved in the tourist industry--they either are in manufacturing, apartment complexes, or seafood distribution.  Yet they expressed grave concern as to how this might affect tourism.

Edited May 19, 2009 by bonobo

[wotaplonker]

Assuming that there is not more to the story, I am seriously considering not visiting Thailand anymore. I do NOT condone theft, even petty theft, but this appears to be extremely harsh, especially for a country that has all sorts of hard-core criminals walking around free.

Another nail in the coffin that is Thailand tourism

you can say that again, Thailand needs a complete and utter revolution, but of course that can never happen until it rids itself of the decadent fatalism of Buddhism (by the way that's the religion where you make it up as you go along! oops!)

Shame about the bar/beer mat incident though, i am arr in Phuket on Saturday and my great 'Mat thieving scam' was all ready to go dammit. 5 years for mat stealing eh, on my last visit i took the hotel's shower cap (you know those ones in the little boxes) good job i wasn't caught it could have been life.

Cheers Wap

[sbk]

It is unsurprising that this thread has degenerated into the usual hate-filled insult-ridden posts that some members feel is their right.

Further such posts in that vein will result in immediate suspension.

[Trev]

It strikes me that every time something like this comes up the too many people on this forum fall firmly in one of two camps. There is the group who denounce almost anything Thai as wrong, inferior, idiotic, archaic, corrupt, etc. Then there is the group that wants to lump all westerners (except themselves if applicable) into the same rotten, hooligan infested boat.

Why is it that things have to be so black and white just because it is Thailand. It is easy to find several examples of people being foolish or behaving like oafs anywhere you look around the world. It is also easy to find plenty of examples of authorities behaving irrationally in almost every country in the world... even our beloved western countries.

Most of the time, as with this case, the issue quickly shifts from the actual incident to a debate that is centered on the divide between these two camps. The unemotional and well thought out comments made by the rational soles amongst us too often get lost in all the fodder.

Regarding this case specifically, the woman in question seems to have behaved with far too much entitlement and arrogance which puts the police in an awkward position that they find hard to deal with rationally. They do have to act in order to re-establish control. A trip to the station and some time in jail may have been unavoidable as the situation escalated. The authorities then run the risk of the situation spiraling out of control as it seems to be doing now. No one completely to blame for the course of events and everyone to blame at the same time.

Once again this scenario takes place all over the world. Rodney King and recently in Canada the case of Robert Dziekanski (google it) are extreme end results that come to mind. No matter whether one is in their home country or abroad the best advice is to approach any situation regarding authorities with a bit of humility, calm and caution. This is even more compounded when traveling to a country which has laws and customs very different than ones own. Not allowing opportunity for the situation to escalate is the best approach to take.

[taxin]

What part of "SHE IS A THIEF" dont you understand ??!!

geez, i sincerely hope you and your kind are never called up for jury service. Guilty until proven innocent aye mate?

Something as simple as this does not require a jury, she was caught red handed stealing from the bar ! Its that simple !

All you do-gooders saying she was not guilty, what evidence have you got to show this ? How many of you were in the bar with her when all this happened ? Thats right, none of you were !!

Yes its harsh to be banged up for stealing a beer mat, but not having the courage to stand up to your mistake and admit to it means you deserve everything that comes to you ! The "It wasnt me, it wasnt me" doesnt wash in Thailand.

Australia, shut up. Mad Scotsman Rudd, shut up ! Do the right thing, apologies, stop slating Thailand and they might actually let her go !

[Trev]

I just returned from dinner with 5 Thai friends.  I related this story, and all expressed dismay at the situation.  Not that anyone seemed to care to much for the accused woman (although they seemed to feel the punishment so far was too harsh for the accused crime) , but rather what this is doing to Thailand's reputation yet again.

None of my friends are involved in the tourist industry--they either are in manufacturing, apartment complexes, or seafood distribution.  Yet they expressed grave concern as to how this might affect tourism.

Just out of complete curiosity how did you relate the story to them? In other words was it from one angle or another (regardless of whether it was intentional)? I am curious to learn about the response of Thai's to a situation where a farang was abusive to the police and tried to flee from the police. Furthermore, I am curious to learn how Thais would feel about a farang being detained for being abusive to the chief of police at the station. I'm not saying that that is definitely what happened in this instance but there is indications at least that it might be part of the situation. If you just related someone being put away for nicking a bar mat then dismay is the obvious response. I'm not yet convinced that her case was as clear cut as that however.

[peecee]

Oh no, the Thai police now have a beer mat theft division that does undercover work in bars to smash a international beer mat theft ring.

PLEASE!!!!

His property, his bar, only the owner can press charges as it's his property.

How did the police know it was stolen? she might have payed $60 for one earlier in the evening, that is what Steve sells them for remember..

Someone reported it, that's for sure.

It stinks, he could go down to the police that he pays anyway and said she purchased it, easy and cleared up.

He chose to drag her through the legal system, way to go Steve.

If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

Sorry but it's not the bar owner but the fact that she insulted the police after trying to run away. You just can't let Thai cop's loose face, they will throw you in the slammer everytime.

Back home she might have spent a night inside for trying to avoid arrest but here once you insult these guy's expect a draconian reaction. The bar mat becomes superfluous.

They could have been bought off before her tirade but let's say that a few too many drink's clouded her and her mates judjement. By the time she sobered up it was to late, her fate was already decided and for the cop's to think about Thailand's reputation as a party destination would not have even come into there thinking!

[bonobo]

What part of "SHE IS A THIEF" dont you understand ??!!

geez, i sincerely hope you and your kind are never called up for jury service. Guilty until proven innocent aye mate?

Something as simple as this does not require a jury, she was caught red handed stealing from the bar ! Its that simple !

All you do-gooders saying she was not guilty, what evidence have you got to show this ? How many of you were in the bar with her when all this happened ? Thats right, none of you were !!

Yes its harsh to be banged up for stealing a beer mat, but not having the courage to stand up to your mistake and admit to it means you deserve everything that comes to you ! The "It wasnt me, it wasnt me" doesnt wash in Thailand.

Australia, shut up. Mad Scotsman Rudd, shut up ! Do the right thing, apologies, stop slating Thailand and they might actually let her go !

Taxin, in the same vein, what evidence do you have that she stole anything?  The only accounts I have actually heard are the ones which state that someone else put the mat in the bag, and that when she tried ot leave the bar, she wasn't even carrying the bag.  Some of these accounts are from the bar employees.

I don't know if she planned on stealing anything.  I don't know if she is guilty or innocent of theft.  I wasn't there.  But if you are deriding "do-gooders" who think she is innocent of theft, at least, because you write they have no evidence, then I am somewhat surprised that you can make such an equally blanket statement as to her guilt with even less evidence. Were you in the bar yourself, as you ask the "do-gooders?"

[lennois]

Something as simple as this does not require a jury, she was caught red handed stealing from the bar ! Its that simple !

All you do-gooders saying she was not guilty, what evidence have you got to show this ? How many of you were in the bar with her when all this happened ? Thats right, none of you were !!

Lol at this whole post tbh. But ahh no, I'm not saying she is innocent. I'm saying you (and I) don't know until the facts become clear. How do you know she's guilty again? Were YOU in the bar?

There are differing version of events and if you believe her and her friends then she wasn't stealing at all.

edit: yeah you beat me to it bonobo, but he just left himself so open didn't he....

Edited May 19, 2009 by lennois

[slipperx]

This is ridiculous and it is damaging to Thailand. Really there needs to be some commonsense.

1. Bangla is full of bars, they are open well past the time the law requires them to be shut. The bar owners who want to make a profit, pay the police to let them stay open late and take more money, the police want them open late so they can have their slice of the action - I imagine it is a fairly hefty slice. Along with taking the profit comes a responsibility to accept the <deleted> that coems with it.

2. If you have a bar open till 2, 3 or 4 in the morning expect people to get drunk. People are not rational when drunk, that's the whole reason for getting drunk in the first place, so you can forget the <deleted> life you are left with after being taxed to death, forget the Mrs taking all your dosh in a divorce, forget working 15 hours a day to make a reasonable living for a week or two. If you have security then they have to be trained to handle such problems. Handling of the situation is NOT what is going on here.

3. If you want a tourist industry based on what is Bangla then you have to take what goes with it - which is some tolerance and common sense in handling people who are pissed (who are feeding the bar owners, staff from profits and police in bribes). You can't go locking people up for piddling offences (pardon the pun) and expect no reaction. Some people will be bothered you can have all this crap levelled at your door for what is insignificant and there will be a lot of people wondering if they want to come to Phuket and risk being slapped up for nothing much at all.

4. Whether she knew or not the towel was in her bag or was abusive to the alleged policeman who was presumably in plain clothes, the most that should have happened was to bang her up (in the cell that is) and let her sober up. If she continues in mouthing off in the morning take her to the airport and escort her out of the country. Nothinhg more would be heard about it and who gives a monkey anyway - well she would be pissed off for wasting a holiday and her money and that would be that. Why does everyone defend the police and expect Spanish Inquition type treatment of people who give them a few strong words. It is not necessary, not good for Thailand and not profitable for the police to be allowed to put their own fragile overdeveloped ego's ahead of what is really good for the country. The establishment should start training them how to handle pissheads or else shut the bars down / control the number / push a different image / send the working girls home - whatever you need to dissuade the type of people who come for that reason. Don't take the profits and then moan that people heve no lack of control after 20 bottles of Heineken

5. It is not acceptable to treat foreginers differently from the Thais which is certainly the case and is a byproduct of the corruption endemic in Thailand. Corruption is everywhere, just here it is acceptable (not just here of course), but is not tolerated if exposed in more equitable societies - look at the MP's in the UK for instance. Here the politicians get a pat ont he back, a ticket out of the country if anyone in their family kills someone and then they let the b&*(&^%s back in again with not so much as a hint of embarrassment. And people wonder why the police, tax, immigration, building control office and just about eveyone else is corrupt here - it is a way of life and of course the foreigners can't be anything other than the victims of that (unless you are an Eastern European Mafioso with no respect for life maybe).

6. How a Chief of Police in charge of a tourist area can be so unaware of the effect of dealing so heavy handily with some piffling problems when such more serious crimes like murder, robbery and the like are treated with such distain defeats me. He should have told his minions to forget the woman and go back to work, unless they themselves were drunk of course.

7. I don;t think you can level much blame against the bar owner. Some stupid people have stirred up a beehive - can anyone really expect him to go standing up for them / her when the police are all over the situation. He has to run his business and upsetting the police or telling them what to do is not the best idea! His weekly payoffs are likely enough already.

8. As for running away from a plain clothes policeman, I guess it depends on the circumstances. Wasn't a very clever thing to do if she thought they really were police. Who is to say some Thai guy approaching you who has been drinking in the bar is a policeman? Maybe she was afraid and maybe not - the argument is not important - the outcome of this absurdity is important. The same argument goes for the guy arrested in immigration for upsetting the immigration guy. Why make such a big issue out of these things - it is not going to make things better here. Take a stance, give a punishment and make it sensible not all out of proportion.

8. It strikes me there are a lot of stupid parties here. The girl, her mates, the police involved, the authorities for not having a properly trained police force to handle these areas where there is a massive concentration of bars.

9. The idea that Thai people are wonderful and beyond reproach is misguided. Someone wrote the Thais leave all their stuff out and no-one takes it. Ha! I've had plenty of stuff stolen on multiple occasions and plenty of friends Thai and foreign who have too - I should be more careful - they should not steal it either. They are not such angels, they ARE racist, xenophobic even, sometimes seem stupid, have little common-sense and are corrupt and two faced. In different degrees doesn't every race have some of these faults and others in one measure or another? And where they are less of one fault they are probably more of another - you have to learn to live with whatever the traits are of the society you live in but that doesn't mean you shouldn't point them out or seek for a change for the better - isn't that how societies evolve? They are not all such reprehensible people either, but on balance Thai society and the Thai people have many problems more deep-seated than Western Society yet Western Society has its own, both different and similar problems and still has much to learn from this one. It's a little draining to hear how mornic Thais can be or how we should just 'put up' with everything evil here from one or other parties. There are good and bad in all races, all societies but that does not mean we should just all shut up because we live in a country we were not born in. People are entitled to be treated fairly and not made to pay just because they are a different colour. Children should be protected regardless whether they are Western, Chinese, Indian or Thai or whatever and I think people have a right to speak out if something is perceived as wrong. Sorry I got off track!!

The owner of the bar probably doesn't much care one way or the other. He isn't going to stick his neck out and neither would I. The publicity may be good or may be bad - either way I expect he wished it hadn't happened and just wants to get on making a crust like the rest of us.

It would be useful if people actually read through the posts before writing - it would make it SO much more enjoyable for the rest of us.

[nakachalet]

it appeared the arrest happened on may 3.

don't we have a phuket forum out there?

wonder what they discovered and knew about this very sad situation?

didn't the phuket forum members have any opportunity to

offer any assistance to ms smoel?

just thinking out loud, friends. no intention to offend any one.

[moe666]

Lets take a break folks. The lady, and I use that word lightly, in question is typical of most tourist the world over. No real consideration of were she is going, no research about local customs, and laws. Maybe a bit of time spent reading about Thailand and she would not find herself in the fine mess she has placed herself in.

Also why all of this crying and howling about how the government should be helping her. When you travel you are now subject to the laws of the country you are visiting and your home country really has no authority and maybe very little influence.

[bonobo]

Just out of complete curiosity how did you relate the story to them? In other words was it from one angle or another (regardless of whether it was intentional)? I am curious to learn about the response of Thai's to a situation where a farang was abusive to the police and tried to flee from the police. Furthermore, I am curious to learn how Thais would feel about a farang being detained for being abusive to the chief of police at the station. I'm not saying that that is definitely what happened in this instance but there is indications at least that it might be part of the situation. If you just related someone being put away for nicking a bar mat then dismay is the obvious response. I'm not yet convinced that her case was as clear cut as that however.

Fair question.

I think I was somewhat impartial, although I did say that I would guess she did in fact get abusive to the police.  We actually spent so little time on the whole barmat theft or no theft itself that I am not sure anyone made a speculation as to her guilt or innocence of that.

Our conversation was centered on the police not playing this incident in the best manner, and how this opened Thailand up to the hysteria of the foreign press. Each one of them opined that the police should have kept her overnight for the abuse we figured she might have committed, then slapped her with a fine and either sent her on her way or put her on a plane back to Australia. They pretty much agreed that the police put their own sense of pride above the best interests of the nation.

[Trev]

Fair question.

I think I was somewhat impartial, although I did say that I would guess she did in fact get abusive to the police.  We actually spent so little time on the whole barmat theft or no theft itself that I am not sure anyone made a speculation as to her guilt or innocence of that.

Our conversation was centered on the police not playing this incident in the best manner, and how this opened Thailand up to the hysteria of the foreign press. Each one of them opined that the police should have kept her overnight for the abuse we figured she might have committed, then slapped her with a fine and either sent her on her way or put her on a plane back to Australia. They pretty much agreed that the police put their own sense of pride above the best interests of the nation.

OK, that gives me a better idea of how your Thai friends reacted and more importantly what the focus of the conversation was. Very thoughtful responses from your Thai friends too I must say. Almost a rebuttal in itself to many people tarring all Thais with the same brush. This post almost hints at what my first post was getting at. This is an unfortunate event that has spiraled out of control and to which more than one party is to blame. I still contend, if in fact that Aussie woman lost a bit of control in the face of Thai authorities, that entering any country (or even living one's life) with a bit more understanding and in a bit less ego-centric way it would not have all kicked off in the first place.

[piano]

The bar is obviously owned by an influential Thai - policeman or politician.Would a Farang owned Bar have undercover cops working in it? Would the police care if a Farang owned bar got ripped off? Certainly not, because the police are looking to do just that - rip off the Farang owned bar themselves by searching for unauthentic music on the computer or Thai CD's etc or absolutely any other "law" they can make up to extort baht from the owner. (yes, I've owned a Bar in Thailand so I'm talking from first hand experience)

So,this is some Thai scumbags bar and they are putting a tourist in jail for stealing a towel. I suggest you avoid this bar if you're ever in Phuket and tell everyone that you know to avoid it as well.

I have Australian BroadCasting TV on my cheap cable here in Bangkok. I have been follwoing this case VERY closely. I would like to tell you that an Australian (farang) and NOT and influential Thai person is the owner of the bar in question.

What shocked me more, was that the owner of the bar was giving an interview. I might have the quote slightly incorrect, but the meaning is the same, he said "lets not forget that she stole". Makes me sick to my stomach that he would allow a mother of 4 go to prison potentially for 5 years when back home in Australia, such a crime would NEVER have come to this.

Things are not always so obvious...It appears he dobbed in his own countrymen/woman.

I've been reading this site for years, had membership, but never felt so strongly about expressing the facts as I have now.

Thanks for my first post.