£2000 Transfer To Thailand Cost Me £200!

[somtom]

Last week I did a SWIFT transfer from my NatWest bank in the UK to a Siam Commercial Bank account in Thailand. When checking through what I was charged at my end and what arrived there it was £200 more than the actual live transfer rate.

What a rip-off... and that is even with me specifying to send in GBP and not asking for express SWIFT.

Does anyone have good advice as the cheapest way to send/wire/transfer money in £1000+ amounts from the UK to a Thai bank account with minimal hassle? I will need to do this a few more times in the next 3 months and I have a feeling NatWest is not the best way to go.

If this has been asked before - please give me the thread links. I've just spent 30 mins searching and reading here but got lost in all of everyone else's technicalities... not good for a forex newb like me.

------- -------

And also coming up for me in a few months... I need to bring up to 500,000 Baht for Sin Sod display (cash) and then will be given it back. So what is the best way to transfer this amount from the UK, take it out in cash in Thailand and then send it back to the UK? I have a feeling I'll be greasing the pockets of many bankers with this set of transactions.

I trust some wise TVF members can help me cut down on fattening these bankers.

[BygonKeaw]

lloyds charge 20fee for that sum and arrives in 2 days.

[JimGant]

When checking through what I was charged at my end and what arrived there it was £200 more than the actual live transfer rate.

Something not quite right here....... According to the NatWest website, it should have cost you no more than 20 GBPs to send that amount, plus a few hundred baht at the receiving end.

Are you sure they understood you wanted to send GBPs, and not baht?

Also, what exchange rate did you use in your figuring?

SCB should be able to give you a printout of the transaction, which would be helpful to spot any human errors.

[Thongkorn]

Has the Thai bank charged you , because in the past i have sent money . paid the cost this end then the Thai bank has charge again.

[madjbs]

No way should it cost 200 quid. Either something has gone wrong or you are not using the SCB exchange rate in your calculation.

[macduff]

You need to contact your bank ,that's extortionate.

[somtom]

No way should it cost 200 quid. Either something has gone wrong or you are not using the SCB exchange rate in your calculation.

Yeah, this is the point. The NatWest charge was only £20 and other banks involved may also have added on their little charges but the real money loss was with the SCB or NatWest exchange rate.

Compared to the direct 1GBP = ?THB rate at XE dot com at that time I lost out almost 10%.

If this was at the SCB end then their rate of buying GBP for THB sucked. I checked with NatWest what their rate of selling GBP to THB was that day and it also sucked compared to the XE rate (although was slightly better than what I ended up being fleeced by). If I remember correctly, the NatWest person said they sell 1 pound for 51 baht, whereas the true value is 55 baht - a 7.3% loss.

So the issue is not the charges for SWIFT but the fact that the rates the banks involved buy and sell at are terrible and allow them to skim of a percent here or there (or in my case 7 to 10 %). ForEx companies claim they offer better rates than banks (e.g. HiFX, Travelex) but I'm not sure.

My question I guess is how to get the best rate, with low charges?

[mahtin]

Let me know if you find something.

Been sending Swift payments to Bangkok Bank every month for over 10 years.

[somtom]

Take my Sin Sod display money question as the example.

If I move £10000 over by SWIFT and the selling/buying rate is 7% different to the actual rate then I lose £700 moving it over, then when I bring it back a week later I lose another £700. Add in the SWIFT charges and I'll be about £1450 out of pocket, pretty much for no reason.

Every percent better someone's buy/sell rate is saves me £200 that otherwise goes to pay for two bankers' Porsches

[madjbs]

You will never get the rate stated on XE as that is the true market rate, banks will always charge differently to that. At the moment you should be expecting 51-52 baht to the pound. So it sounds like everything is ok, your mistake was expecting the XE rate.

[madjbs]

Take my Sin Sod display money question as the example.

then when I bring it back a week later I lose another £700.

You are working it out all wrong.

When you send the money here and back,

The only money you will lose is the difference between the buying and selling rate (the spread). If the rate is worse than XE, you don't "lose" anything when you send 10,000 over, you simply just have to send more, which you can then send back later on. The spread for SWIFT transfers is about 1 baht, so you will loose about 200 quid in total (for a 1 baht spread) plus transfer fees.

Edited May 26, 2009 by madjbs

[473geo]

As far as the sinsod goes why not bring it with you and change in BKK? gotta be a better bet......I mean you are intending to be at the wedding are you not?...

[Bucko]

Going by their web-sites---U.O.B bank seems to offer the best rates at the moment----I will be taking my FX to them shortly --after one final check on Monday.

[somtom]

The spread for SWIFT transfers is about 1 baht, so you will loose about 200 quid in total (for a 1 baht spread) plus transfer fees.

I'm still confused how it cost me £200 extra on a £2000 transfer than the XE rate. A 1 baht spread would be me having to pay £40 more, right?

So it looks instead like the SWIFT spread was more like 4 baht.

Clearly I'm getting something wrong.

Where does this amazing 1 baht SWIFT spread?

---- ----- -------

As for taking the cash over - this is an option, maybe not that safe. But if I want to show it in Baht I still have to get it changed and then change it back. The sell/buy spread walking into BKK Bank or wherever will probably be between 5 and 10 baht.... ie. £1000 to £2000 loss.

[Emeritus]

...Clearly I'm getting something wrong...

I agree with you.

You should follow the advice given by JimGant and get the printout from Siam Commercial Bank for this incoming remittance. Then, if you still have questions, come back here and post them. As it is, I have no idea what this is all about, and obviously neither have you.

[Emeritus]

£2000 Transfer To Thailand Cost Me £200!

Last week I did a SWIFT transfer from my NatWest bank in the UK to a Siam Commercial Bank account in Thailand. When checking through what I was charged at my end and what arrived there it was £200 more than the actual live transfer rate.

What a rip-off... and that is even with me specifying to send in GBP and not asking for express SWIFT.

You sound like you are saying that you ordered NatWest to transfer GBP 2,000 to a Siam Commercial Bank account in Thailand and NatWest debited your account with GBP 2,200 but I doubt very much that this is what happened.

What exactly was your order to NatWest?

On what date was the Siam Commercial Bank credited?

[somtom]

You sound like you are saying that you ordered NatWest to transfer GBP 2,000 to a Siam Commercial Bank account in Thailand and NatWest debited your account with GBP 2,200 but I doubt very much that this is what happened.

I'm not saying that's what happened. If you want the full story - I went to NatWest and had calculated with the XE rate that I needed to send £2000 to cover the bills at the other end. Speaking to NatWest they told me the rate would obviously not be that good so rather than getting them to convert to Baht at their end (which I'd been told gets you a worse rate) I played it safe and told them to transfer £2150 which should cover a really poor rate but then my missus could save the excess for me. NatWest couldn't give me a rate so it was just guess work based on their travel cash rates in house.

I told the SCB account holder (my missus) that I'd be overpaying them, but actually when they got it into their account it was only just over £2000 worth. And then at my end I got the final bill on my account of around £2200.

You can assume from this that I got billed £50 for the SWIFT charges at either end (I opted to pay either end). For a start that's not very good. But for £2150 to end up being £2000 means they gave me an exchange rate of 50 baht per GBP if the real XE rate was 53.75 baht per GBP. This is not the 1 baht spread people here have been talking about - it's a 7 baht spread.

We'll look into UOB as someone else has suggested, but I'm especially interested if anyone has worked with non-bank ForEx companies as they claim to offer the very best spreads.

[Emeritus]

If Siam Commercial Bank have not changed the format since last year, this is what their printout will look like:

Post the information from the line "REMIT AMOUNT" here and somebody will help you interpret it.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Emeritus

[somtom]

If Siam Commercial Bank have not changed the format since last year, this is what their printout will look like:

Yeah. I didn't get that. But I got the equivalent from NatWest - and I've been looking it through and all the real numbers in the last 10 mins.

They gave me a rate of 51.4 on a day when the real XE rate was 53.6 - so that makes a 4.4 baht spread with their rates.

Both banks charged me £20 at each end for SWIFT.

-----------

Q1: I asked NatWest to send the wire in pounds - did they mess me up and they did the transfer and that's why I got the bad rate?

Q2: A 4.4 baht spread is not as bad as the 7 baht spread my mental estimates pulled up, but it's still not this 1 baht spread people here are talking about. Where can I get SWIFT transfers with 1 baht spreads?

[Emeritus]

...Q1: I asked NatWest to send the wire in pounds - did they mess me up and they did the transfer and that's why I got the bad rate?

Q2: A 4.4 baht spread is not as bad as the 7 baht spread my mental estimates pulled up, but it's still not this 1 baht spread people here are talking about. Where can I get SWIFT transfers with 1 baht spreads?

Yes, NatWest messed you up big time. I suspected that this was what happened, that NatWest converted at their end and remitted Baht to Siam Commercial Bank (SCB).

The line for "REMIT AMOUNT" on the advice of SCB is structured like this:

REMIT AMOUNT <currency symbol> <amount> @ <exchange rate> CT BAHT <amount>

When your wife gets the printout she will see that <currency symbol> is THB and the amount next to it is the Baht amount.

SCB's commission is 0.25%, but minimum 200 Baht, maximum 500 Baht (www.scb.co.th/en/pnb/pnb_otr_irm_in.shtml)

On www.scb.co.th/exchange/bk-pvsexchange.htm you can look up the exchange rate that SCB would have given you on the day the SCB account was credited. Talk to Natwest and see if they will reimburse you the difference, but if your instructions to remit GBP were not in writing they will probably not accept responsibility.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Emeritus

[somtom]

Talk to Natwest and see if they will reimburse you the difference, but if your instructions to remit GBP were not in writing they will probably not accept responsibility.

I just dug out my copy of the transaction authorisation. Despite what I told the guy in the bank, and my long-winded explanation to him about why not to send as Baht he did send it as Baht. And being my first time wiring money I didn't spot it when I signed. He'll have trouble not admitting his fault in front of me at the branch tomorrow when I go, but as I signed I'm not sure I'll get it back.

I guess I've been taught a lesson not to trust NatWest with wiring.

--------------

I'd still like to hear from anyone who recommends specific banks, online ForEx agents, or non-SWIFT methods that give the best rates.

Shall I stick with sending to SCB?

[Emeritus]

So the credit advice of SCB will probably look something like this:

REMIT AMOUNT		THB 110,510.00 @ 1.00	 CT  BAHT 110,510.00
LESS COMMISSION											276.28
											  ---------------
TOTAL											 BAHT 110,233.73
											  ---------------

[basjke]

You will never get the rate stated on XE as that is the true market rate, banks will always charge differently to that. At the moment you should be expecting 51-52 baht to the pound. So it sounds like everything is ok, your mistake was expecting the XE rate.

At the moment you will get over 54 baht to the pound by telex transfer.

[dereklev]

Take my Sin Sod display money question as the example.

If I move £10000 over by SWIFT and the selling/buying rate is 7% different to the actual rate then I lose £700 moving it over, then when I bring it back a week later I lose another £700. Add in the SWIFT charges and I'll be about £1450 out of pocket, pretty much for no reason.

Every percent better someone's buy/sell rate is saves me £200 that otherwise goes to pay for two bankers' Porsches

If the Sin Sod is just for display borrow it from a local money lender in the morning of the wedding and return it a few hours later.

They charge about 2% a month which would cost you 10,000 Baht if they charged the full rate but I am sure you could negotiate a fee of 5,000 Baht for a same day transaction.

Suggest that to your bride to be....

[monty]

As of now, sending GBP to Thailand by telex transfer, you will get 54.64 Thai Baht per pound.

You will get charged the costs in the UK, and in Thailand as per somewhere above post, with a maximum of 500 Baht.

Sending it back out, i.e. buying GBP here in Thailand and swifting it out, will cost you 55.36 Baht per pound.

A spread of only 0.72 Thai Baht. The actual spread will be bigger due to the transfer costs involved, but on larger amounts this is not a lot.

Note that XE indicates 55.1 Baht to the pound, which actually sits smack in the middle of the spread between the selling and the buying rates of Siam Commercial Bank! Which is why they are called "mid-market" rates!

I assume you also checked the notice in red on XE, that the exchange rates in Thailand maybe different from what XE is stating!

[Hacunamatata]

Let me know if you find something.

Been sending Swift payments to Bangkok Bank every month for over 10 years.

If you have a Thai Bank account and ATM card, That is capable of receiving automated payments.

Try sending from a Paypal account, a transfer of £100.00 costs £0.50 and takes 5 days to a receiving Paypal account, there is no fee to transfer from Paypal to A Thai bank account in multiples of £50.00 and above.

I realise its long winded but £5.00 per thousand is Ok, and standing orders remove the Hard work.

Hope this helps

Regards

Robin.

[monty]

Let me know if you find something.

Been sending Swift payments to Bangkok Bank every month for over 10 years.

If you have a Thai Bank account and ATM card, That is capable of receiving automated payments.

Try sending from a Paypal account, a transfer of £100.00 costs £0.50 and takes 5 days to a receiving Paypal account, there is no fee to transfer from Paypal to A Thai bank account in multiples of £50.00 and above.

I realise its long winded but £5.00 per thousand is Ok, and standing orders remove the Hard work.

Hope this helps

Regards

Robin.

True, but expensive.

I just transferred Euro from Paypal to my Thai bank account, and the exchange rate was 2% less then what I would have gotten for banknotes within Thailand.

Which makes the difference with the telex transfer rate around 3.8%!

[somtom]

Note that XE indicates 55.1 Baht to the pound, which actually sits smack in the middle of the spread between the selling and the buying rates of Siam Commercial Bank! Which is why they are called "mid-market" rates!

I assume you also checked the notice in red on XE, that the exchange rates in Thailand maybe different from what XE is stating!

I understand how XE's, Reuters' and Google's rates work - they're middle market. That why they are used to compare like for like each day.

What I just couldn't understand was why my rate was so far off from that. As Emeritus and others helped me find out it was because NatWest did the money change in the UK with a really poor rate for me - exactly something I told them not to do after reading here and elsewhere that it's much better rate if you change at the Thai end due to some reason with Baht being outside of Thailand.

Thanks for the info on Travelex, I will look into them - that is a good small spread.

[madjbs]

You haven't lost anything yet, if you get a similar rate with Natwest when you transfer the money back, you will only loose the amount in the spread. Regardless of how close their rate is to the XE rate.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I have a Nat West account and have transferred several times - charge is £20 or £25 for standard transfer. Open a foreign exchange account and transfer for the flat fee and then transfer into Baht (no fee). There has been a lot of discussion about this on other threads but, I believe, you must have a foreign exchange account to transfer in GBP but I may be wrong on this as I would never dream of transferring this way - hope you get it sorted sounds bizzare!