House/land Sale

[HDRIDER]

Hi

Last week in Phuket Gazette one guy was telling us that it was not bad in Phuket when it come to house/land sale, can’t remember it all but have a look, then this week in Gazette :

http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.asp?id=7410

Did i miss something ????

Ohh and then this

Land purchase through Thai spouse forbidden: Land Dept (Phuket Gazette)

[logbags]

I was just looking at this online, looking at how they sell these properties to farangs. It seems most places don't actually offer freehold at all. You get a 30 year lease with a PROMISE of 2 more. Now we all know 30 years in the maximum lease, the 2 promised extensions are not legally binding from what I know.

This to me can go pear shaped in any number of ways. Firstly if the holding company sells out ot goes belly up the new owners may not be as generous in fullfilling the original owners promises. I know I am playing devils advocate here but I feel there are many better places to stick your dosh than investing it in something you only half own at best.

In Las Vegas million dollar homes are going for 100 to 200 grand and their are some amazing deals for homes in Queensland, Australia. I know Bill Barnett will be talking it up but I personally don't like seeing such a gap developing where you have luxury enclaves built in very poor areas.

[RAZZELL]

In Las Vegas million dollar homes are going for 100 to 200 grand and their are some amazing deals for homes in Queensland, Australia

Err...correction. They are no longer million dollar homes...they are $100-200k homes

RAZZ

[Royale]

Hi

Last week in Phuket Gazette one guy was telling us that it was not bad in Phuket when it come to house/land sale, can't remember it all but have a look, then this week in Gazette :

http://www.phuketgazette.net/news/index.asp?id=7410

Did i miss something ????

Ohh and then this

Land purchase through Thai spouse forbidden: Land Dept (Phuket Gazette)

It's been obvious for a few years that property sales were not what they were. I've often wondered if with the power of the internet there were fewer clueless arrivals who were keen to part with their money, with all the info these days no one should be caught out here anymore.

As for today's headline in the Gazette I had to laugh. How many Thai people have the money to buy homes here in Phuket at these prices without the help of their foreign spouse?! Do they really expect couples to raise their families in condos?

. To all those who think xenophobia doesn't exist here, you're living in denial!

[SMEEERE]

This will shake a few .........If the Thai spouse has enough money to buy the house that is fine, but if the Thai has no money and uses money given to him or her by a foreigner to acquire property, that is against the law. If we check and find out later that a Thai person has been using money from a foreigner to buy land anywhere in Thailand, we will revoke title deeds,” he said.

[SMEEERE]

So tell me, all the thousands of properties going up all over pattaya are are going to be bought strictly by thais,?, and none of us can give our spouse a gift to buy a family home, really ?

[pagallim]

I just don't get the point that the Head of the Land Department was trying to make? Who provides the capital to purchase land is immaterial. It could be from savings, a Bank Mortgage, or loan/gift from family or friends. The only critical thing is the registration, and as we all know, that cannot be in the name of a non-Thai. The only potential consequence that I can think of if a spouse is found to have gifted the money for land to be bought is that the Thai person could be liable to some form of tax liability. Under which law can they revoke title deeds if land is registered to a Thai person, and establishment of boundaries etc, and proper registration has been carried out?

Some people, myself included, own their land/property through a company, with a non-majority shareholding but with majority voting rights. Is that going to be his next statement, that a Farang who provides funds to a company for the purchase of land will lead to the title deeds being revoked???

I'm sure that the Real Estate brokers of Thailand in general, and Phuket in particular will have loved the additional publicity!

Edited May 27, 2009 by pagallim

[logbags]

This is <deleted>, from what I know half the bloody staff at the Krom thi din hold property for people from places like Hong Kong and Singapore . My nephew does and he said there are a number of shameless crooks who work there who are nothing but land rustlers trying to pinch any valuable block they can get their claws on.

In the daily papers they are lamenting the downturn then five minutes later they are fear-mongering and scaring off investors. I laughed my head off recently when the boss of Raimon land said their new villas would be under 250 million each as if he was giving them away. The next day there was an article on Surin Hill and how Surin beach offers everything you dream of. Phuket Gazzette has one house being sacrificed due to the downturn at a fire sale price of 12 million USD.

For the major part of the year Surin beach is too windy and wet to visit, Bang Tao and Cherng Talay offer bugger all after 8pm nightly. The beaches at Laguna, Layan and Nai Thon are nowhere near as good as Kata, Kata Noi or Nai Harn. Surin can get quite dangerous in the wet season with tricky rips and channels. Certainly children cannot swim out of season at most of these beaches on the West coast.

I was riding home from Cherng Talay to Patong about 2 weeks ago and came across a gun fight right on the main road. 3 guys were down for the count with what looked like serious gun shot wounds. I first thought it was a car accident but people were screaming for me to get the hel_l out of there so I just rode off. Never read about it and I was told the cops never came either. I just laughed as this lady was talking up the area as if it was Beverly Hills.

Over on the way to Nai Thon a lot of developments have been built but again there is nothing to do for a huge part of the year. Too windy and wet to go to the beach and nothing around that area for the average farang to amuse himself with. In Patong even if it is raining you can walk down to Carrefour or Jungceylon to kill an afternoon. Bang Tao and Cherng Talay are a waistland with strong winds and heavy rains coming over from Phang Nga. You need a car if staying long time or be prepared to get wet on a regular basis.

Phuket is a fantastic place, but greed is killing it like a cancer.

[JetsetBkk]

Whoops - didn't see this thread so I posted it in the Phuket News section:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Land-Purchas...de-t268676.html

I think this bit is nonsense:

“If the Thai spouse has enough money to buy the house that is fine, but if the Thai has no money and uses money given to him or her by a foreigner to acquire property, that is against the law. If we check and find out later that a Thai person has been using money from a foreigner to buy land anywhere in Thailand, we will revoke title deeds,” he said.

They need to clarify what is meant by "property" - house or land?

The bit in red is just stupid. And wrong.

I reckon something got lost in translation.

[Thaibloke]

I think the gazette should check it's figures as well. 883 billion bt divided by 1,945 sales is an average of more than 440 m bt per sale.

[FarangRed]

I think the gazette should check it's figures as well. 883 billion bt divided by 1,945 sales is an average of more than 440 m bt per sale.

What will happen to all the land that they repossess? Rawai would be empty I guess another bright idea

[logbags]

Many high ranking officials and politicions have foreign properties so if they did attempt to touch farang houses our Governments could just openly reveal how many of them have undeclared assets stashed offshore. It's a big joke so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

The last people who want any checking done are the officials working at the land department. My nephew tells me there is so much one-upmanship, double dealing and jockeying for positions going in all these gravy train positions, everyone is too busy watching their own back to worry about this crap or farangs

Thai Business 101, follow Murphy's Golden rule, whoever has the gold rules. Thats all you need to know.

[logbags]

What will happen to all the land that they repossess? Rawai would be empty.

[katabeachbum]

Gazette should have checked their numbers before printing. The period of time described, has had a tax cut. A transfer that used to cost 5,8% in total, has since april 2008 until april 2009 cost a fraction. Thats why landoffice has small revenue compared to same period of time last year.

In this period of time I payed only 25.000 baht in tax for a 7 mill baht property, first quarter 2008 tax was calculated at 400.000 baht. Fortunately the project was delayed, and I saved 375.000 baht in tax becuse transfer took place in the "taxbreakyear". A new taxbreakyear is expected to begin in june 2009.

When it comes to spouse ownership, I guess we all should take our spouses to Europe or US for 3 months ahead of the transfer, so they can make a shitload of forreign currency money

[stevenl]

Some people, myself included, own their land/property through a company, with a non-majority shareholding but with majority voting rights. Is that going to be his next statement, that a Farang who provides funds to a company for the purchase of land will lead to the title deeds being revoked???

I think, but may be wrong here, that the title already can be revoked if the only activity of the company is the ownership of the land.

[katabeachbum]

Some people, myself included, own their land/property through a company, with a non-majority shareholding but with majority voting rights. Is that going to be his next statement, that a Farang who provides funds to a company for the purchase of land will lead to the title deeds being revoked???

I think, but may be wrong here, that the title already can be revoked if the only activity of the company is the ownership of the land.

Majority voting rights in Co ltd for a non-majority shareholder has been illegal for more than 2 years. A Co ltd with no turnover for 3 years, is supposed to be canselled. Take out a lease in farang name (1,1% reg tax pr 30 year period), and pay the rent annually to give the company a small turnover, paying like 10.000 baht a year in tax. Legal and everyone is happy.

[pagallim]

Some people, myself included, own their land/property through a company, with a non-majority shareholding but with majority voting rights. Is that going to be his next statement, that a Farang who provides funds to a company for the purchase of land will lead to the title deeds being revoked???

I think, but may be wrong here, that the title already can be revoked if the only activity of the company is the ownership of the land.

Yes, a company that produces no trading accounts can be dissolved. The status quo is achieved by 'renting' the land/property at a nominal rent, and the company produces trading figures, and pays tax, based on the annual revenue.

[pagallim]

Majority voting rights in Co ltd for a non-majority shareholder has been illegal for more than 2 years. A Co ltd with no turnover for 3 years, is supposed to be canselled. Take out a lease in farang name (1,1% reg tax pr 30 year period), and pay the rent annually to give the company a small turnover, paying like 10.000 baht a year in tax. Legal and everyone is happy.

No, not 'majority' voting rights, only the right of veto, and the use of (legitimate) proxy vote. Company obtains revenue from a 'market' rent figure, and pays tax on this revenue. Lease sounds great, unless you give yourself a better than average chance of living more than 30 years, or would like perhaps to be able to pass something onto family etc. Imagine trying to market a property that is say into 20 years of a 30 year lease, and telling prospective buyers that they won't have a problem for at least 10 years. Cool.

[HDRIDER]

HI

No company setup, no 30 years lease, what DO you guys recommend to do when people buy a house

[steelepulse]

Usefruct?

[katabeachbum]

HI

No company setup, no 30 years lease, what DO you guys recommend to do when people buy a house

Company, co ltd, 1 mill baht, 6 equal thai shareholders pluss your shares. Lease from company, paying annual rent to company, giving company revenue, small though . A good lease gives you all the rights you need. Like if you sell 3 years from now, the new owner starts with a new lease, not taking over 27 years leftovers. Could write 5 pages about good lease, shortform here.

[logbags]

You want some advice I'll give it very clearly but tell me how old you are, married, Thai wife, kids or whatever. Where do you want to settle down? You could be 25 or 65 so it's hard to advise without knowing what you are after.

I just spoke with my wife who was born and bred in Phuket and owns properties from Patong to Krabi. She just doesn't understand the obsession with buying over-priced places in Phuket when you could build a huge spread on a big block in Phang-Nga or Krabi for a fraction of the price.

I am certain I could buy 2 rai build a furnished mansion and add a pool for 5 million or less out in the sticks. It is also much safer than present day Phuket. You are still only 1 hour from Phuket in Phang-nga and there are many amazing unspoilt beaches like Ton Sak where you can chill.

Having lived by the beach all my life I know the downside like seas winds and rusting of cars etc. I honestly feel there are places that are a disaster area in waiting in Phuket. Even a small earthquake could bring half the buildings down.

If you have a family so many things need to be considered.

[Valentine]

HI

No company setup, no 30 years lease, what DO you guys recommend to do when people buy a house

Company, co ltd, 1 mill baht, 6 equal thai shareholders pluss your shares. Lease from company, paying annual rent to company, giving company revenue, small though . A good lease gives you all the rights you need. Like if you sell 3 years from now, the new owner starts with a new lease, not taking over 27 years leftovers. Could write 5 pages about good lease, shortform here.

A Co., Ltd. only needs two Thai shareholders although I suppose it is OK to have as many as you like. A new owner starting with a new lease but it seems to me you need to have agreement with the land owner on how much the new lease is going to cost so you can factor it in the selling price.

[katabeachbum]

A Co., Ltd. only needs two Thai shareholders although I suppose it is OK to have as many as you like. A new owner starting with a new lease but it seems to me you need to have agreement with the land owner on how much the new lease is going to cost so you can factor it in the selling price.

This is just one of the agreements you register in the lease.

[logbags]

I forgot to say the money you save can be spent on a good car, Harley or even boat if required. Even an average place on a shoe box block in Phuket is going for 10-15 million in the farang market.

Man, if i had that cash to spend I would build an estate somewhere like Prai Praya in Krabi or Nakhon Sri. I would just drive to Phuket if bored and crash at a mates house

If you know where to go there are plenty of places to go for the serious skulker. Nakhon Sri Thammarart offers numerous places the superficial man can spend his dosh and trust me, it's way cheaper than Phuket.

Nakhon Sri Thammarart has some of the most gorgeous females in Thailand. Very very different from the Lao and Isarn girls at bars in Phuket. Nakhon is the old capital of the South and an extremely interesting place, so cheap compared to Phuket.

If a serious skulker, Pattaya offers more bang for the buck so to speak.

[HDRIDER]

Hi

Just had my morning drive around Nai Harn and Rawai, don’t think i have seen so many houses/apt for rent or sale before, its everywhere and this was mostly on the main rd, plenty of signs pointing to the small soi’s, is it gonna be worse?? And to get your laundry done should not be a problem, they are everywhere as well

Logbags, not looking to buy right now, and i know its cheaper else where, but i like Phuket to much to move, will not move more than 20 min away from Villa Market

[steelepulse]

Last year I was telling friends that we were waiting on a fire sale to pick up some properties, I think after next low season will be that time. 

[LivinLOS]

I just spoke with my wife who was born and bred in Phuket and owns properties from Patong to Krabi. She just doesn't understand the obsession with buying over-priced places in Phuket when you could build a huge spread on a big block in Phang-Nga or Krabi for a fraction of the price.

I am certain I could buy 2 rai build a furnished mansion and add a pool for 5 million or less out in the sticks. It is also much safer than present day Phuket. You are still only 1 hour from Phuket in Phang-nga and there are many amazing unspoilt beaches like Ton Sak where you can chill.

And presumably as shes Thai she doesnt desire the western ameneties that are here..

How often each week does she eat sushi there ?? Or go to a high end salon ?? Or even a quality cinema ?? Or a marina ?? Or a hospital worth calling itself that ?? Or replacement PC parts, or broadband, or or or or..

This is the problem.. I need to live with broadband, lavazza coffee beans, carrefore quality baker, etc.. Not to mention the ability to go and have a decent discussion about something other then the price and spicyness of the som tam, or a Sunday roast or a bottle of wine... So my choices realistically are Phuket / Chiang Mai / Bangkok or Patts and its surrounds, with a 'close second' to hua hin.. BKK and Patts are out for me personally, so options are thin.

I know many people are happy living a simple life in Nakhon Nowhere but its not a lifestyle many of us are interested in.

[PatinBKk]

And presumably as shes Thai she doesnt desire the western ameneties that are here..

How often each week does she eat sushi there ?? Or go to a high end salon ?? Or even a quality cinema ?? Or a marina ?? Or a hospital worth calling itself that ?? Or replacement PC parts, or broadband, or or or or..

This is the problem.. I need to live with broadband, lavazza coffee beans, carrefore quality baker, etc.. Not to mention the ability to go and have a decent discussion about something other then the price and spicyness of the som tam, or a Sunday roast or a bottle of wine... So my choices realistically are Phuket / Chiang Mai / Bangkok or Patts and its surrounds, with a 'close second' to hua hin.. BKK and Patts are out for me personally, so options are thin.

I know many people are happy living a simple life in Nakhon Nowhere but its not a lifestyle many of us are interested in.

Exactly.location,location,location............Issan, 5 bed/4bath/3rai/western kitchen etc etc etc 2 mil...........ok for cheap charlies that wanna drink their chang at the local mom and pop place......but if you want a life rather than existence, you needs to pay the cash

[JetsetBkk]

Exactly.location,location,location............Issan, 5 bed/4bath/3rai/western kitchen etc etc etc 2 mil...........ok for cheap charlies that wanna drink their chang at the local mom and pop place......but if you want a life rather than existence, you needs to pay the cash

Some people think that marrying the love of your life, building a massive house in Isaan for 2 mil., having kids, watching them grow up, go to school, etc, etc, is not being a cheap charlie, they don't drink Chang all day and don't need broadband, Carrefores or any of the other western amenities.

That's not me, by the way. Still haven't met the love of my life.