Farang To Teach Thai

[ThaiMaiYaak]

I have learnt Thai and would say I am 90+% fluent. I teach my friends Thai over a beer and their Thai improves considerably after just an hour after I have explained things. The majority have had Thai lessons from Thai teachers but all say that my teaching method is so much easier to understand to the extent that Thai now appears easy; which I think it is.

The problem for Farang that learn Thai initially is that it is explained in a way that seems nigh on impossible and so the majority of people give up at the first hurdle.

However, if you ask anyone that got over the initial hurdle they will all agree that Thai isn't difficult and can be learnt quickly. Thereafter the speed of progress only depends on effort rather than uncomprehension.

I would like to gauge whether people would be interested in learning Thai from a foreigner. There is the small complication of teaching Thai as a foreigner as technically it could be viewed as taking jobs away from a Thai person but being a "consultant" would be ok !

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Cheers.

[klons]

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Cheers.

Studying Thai is a hobby for me. I won’t be taking any lessons from a live person, just self study from the net and packaged CD lessons, etc. I don’t expect to be fluent before I’m dead but I am giving it a try. If I were to take lessons, I think I would prefer a fluent Farang, if they were very good. Someone like the bald Aussie who used to be on TV a lot and writes books for Thai’s to learn English. I wonder sometimes how some Farangs

became so fluent. Either they lived in Thailand many years or have a special talent for picking up languages. What about Jonas & Christy? Were they kids of a Swedish Embassy diplomat or something like that?

How long did it take you to become 90% fluent?

[PeaceBlondie]

I wonder if standard methods of teaching Thai are out of date, or based upon how it has always been taught to native speaking Thais. Surely didn't work for me.

[patklang]

Would not matter to me as long as i learned thelanguage better.

[garro]

I think that a westerner who was fluent in Thai would be acceptable in the early stages of learning the language and might even be preferable for those who find the methods used by Thai teachers difficult. The problem would be actually finding a westerner who is fluent as most overestimate their ability to speak the language. On a sort of related issue, I have been recently thinking about my son's education. I would prefer that he only learn English from native speakers if possible. So I suppose from my point of view it depends on what you want. If you want to learn a bit of conversational Thai then a westerner might be fine, but I feel for a deeper understanding of the language then a native speaker is a must.

[Johpa]

I have learnt Thai and would say I am 90+% fluent. I teach my friends Thai over a beer and their Thai improves considerably after just an hour after I have explained things.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Cheers.

I would imagine that an hour of individual instruction would always yield vastly better results than an hour of classroom instruction. And this would apply more so at a beginner level or for a person that seeks just basic skills. Remember that most native speakers of any language are incapable of formulating and expressing the grammatical rules of their language as it is an intrinsic capability of the brain. The local professor of Thai at the nearest large university close to my home here in the US warns her American students that most of the visiting Thai students will not be able to answer any of their questions about grammar. So yes, those of us who have learned Thai via instruction can explain some things better than Thais untrained in applied linguistics. But I would imagine that a good part of the missing 10% includes proper tone control.

[inthepink]

I wouldn't take lessons from a Westerner as you are getting the language second-hand then, and your pronunciation will be based on their pronunciation, with any of their weaknesses included, plus your own added in as well. So you will probably end up with a not quite perfect version of their not quite perfect version of Thai pronunciation, if you see what I mean. That's to say nothing of their language usage, grammar and idiomatic knowledge. You'd want someone who could read and write the language properly as well (well I would).

Edited May 29, 2009 by inthepink

[kriswillems]

A farang can be on the same level as a native Thai speaker if he grew up in Thailand. Some farang children in Thai schools are like that. Not only do they speak Thai like a Thai, they also look, behave, dress and even speak English like a Thai.

Many of the very famous farang that you see on Thai TV are "almost" on the same level as a native Thai speaker. I think this is what makes them famous. Farang that are perfect in Thai and that grew up in Thailand are not famous because Thai people look at these farang as being one of them.

Some farang are really specialists in some domains of the Thai language. I am convinced that you don't need to speak a language on the level of a native speaker to become a university level linguist studying that language. There's a huge difference between having a theoretical knowledge about a language (and possibly even the relation with other languages) and really being able to speak the language on the level of a native speaker (including language related jokes, slang, use of particles and gestures, expression of emotions by using speed and intonation,...).

Studying about the theoretical background of a language is something you can do by yourself, with the help of a native Thai speaker or even with the help of a farang.

Learning to have a feeling for the language comes with a lot of reading and speaking to real native speakers.

[RickBradford]

I think there might be some initial benefits at a beginner level to learning Thai from a farang, in that you could engage in an easy-going, free-wheeling and interactive approach to learning, with the shared ability to dissect and discuss difficult points in English.

On the other hand, a farang would not have the same inherent grounded understanding of the language as a native speaker, would not understand the subtleties and shibboleths as well as a native, would not have as good pronunciation as a native, or the cultural background to explain some appropriate and inappropriate usages.

An interesting test would be the complicated tense system of English: "If I had been driving to work when the bridge collapsed, I would have been stuck in the traffic jam for hours." (The pluperfect subjunctive in English, in fact).

That needs somebody who can understand the sense of the English construction, and then render it as closely as possible into Thai. Perhaps a case for two teachers, one farang, one Thai....

[thaicbr]

I kind of agree but also disagree. "would not have as good pronunciation as a native" pronunciation would always depend on who you are talking to as in the west there are different dialects in use in Thailand.

I for one would be interested but as Rick said i would probably get my girlfriend to go along to. She speaks and understands English pretty well, but when it comes down to teaching me Thai she is hopeless. Mainly due to the fact that she can not understand why i am having a difficult time with the tones. This is were i think a competent Farang Thai speaker would be very helpful.

Op pm me some details. Allan

[Mousehound]

I have learnt Thai and would say I am 90+% fluent. I teach my friends Thai over a beer and their Thai improves considerably after just an hour after I have explained things. The majority have had Thai lessons from Thai teachers but all say that my teaching method is so much easier to understand to the extent that Thai now appears easy; which I think it is.

The problem for Farang that learn Thai initially is that it is explained in a way that seems nigh on impossible and so the majority of people give up at the first hurdle.

However, if you ask anyone that got over the initial hurdle they will all agree that Thai isn't difficult and can be learnt quickly. Thereafter the speed of progress only depends on effort rather than uncomprehension.

I would like to gauge whether people would be interested in learning Thai from a foreigner. There is the small complication of teaching Thai as a foreigner as technically it could be viewed as taking jobs away from a Thai person but being a "consultant" would be ok !

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Cheers.

My son and I compare our Thai all the time. We find we have different experiences gleaned through different peer groups so the language used is sometimes different. I also find that because you are a native English speaker you can pick up on those things that are difficult to grasp such as no verb declensions. I am actually trying to teach a native English speaker, who has a Thai mother yet speaks no Thai, Thai! I guess that in the end it all helps.

Although I'm not sure how you would translate "uncomprehension"? (Sorry - just being a smartass).

[PeaceBlondie]

There may be an assumption here that Thais who were trained to teach Thai are good at it. I did not find that to be true. The Slovenian with no degree was far better.

[Rionoir]

I wouldn't want to study with a farang... the pronunciation of Thai is too important, and even the best farang speakers I've heard do not sound exactly like native Thai. This could be a big problem when it comes to listening... I would want to be adept at listening to a Thai speaker speaking Thai, not a farang.

Anyway, I think it's illegal for a farang to teach Thai ใช่มั้ย

[nicholasday]

I think that while for pronunciation you would probably want a native Thai speaker to help you but then if you are living in Thailand anyway then that doesn't really matter so much.

I think that a foreigner who has learned Thai may be a lot better at explaining it as they look at the language from the same point of view as they student and therefore will be able to understand what were the difficult points to understand when they learned the language and would know exactly how to explain things to make it perfectly clear.

Just like in a Thai school if the students are learning English and they have both a Thai teacher and a native English speaking teacher the native speaker will teacher speaking while the Thai teacher will usually focus on grammar.

[Sir_Sanuk]

Farang that are perfect in Thai and that grew up in Thailand are not famous because Thai people look at these farang as being one of them.

Ha! Are you serious? Sadly this is way off the mark. Thai people will never consider a farang as one of them, no matter how fluent their Thai is.

[meadish_sweetball]

Please keep in mind that this is the Thai Language forum and that the question posed in this topic is 'Would you like a farang to teach you Thai'.

The perception of Thai attitudes to foreigners is best discussed in General (and has been so several times).

[Murf]

Isn't learning Thai from a Westerner the same as a Thai person learning English from a Thai person?

Could be good in the initial stages, but i would prefer a Thai national who can speak English to teach me.

[Johpa]

Let us not forget that around the world the vast majority of adult language learners do not receive instruction from a native speaker, especially within the public school systems. Even my esteemed college professor of Thai was not a native speaker although most Thais thought he spoke far better formal Thai than did they, although they did hear a very slight hint of an accent that they could never quite place. But then again, native speakers of Central Thai detect a whisper of an accent when my wife, who speaks Kham Muang without any trace of an accent, speaks Central Thai. I really doubt that the language background of any one teacher will make that big of a difference in your language acquisition in the long run.

[ThaiMaiYaak]

To answer a few of the questions.

I got to 90% fluent after about 7 years but I would say 70% fluent after only 3-4. As I mentioned, once you get over the initial hurdle, Thai becomes easy to learn as long as you are committed to learning new vocabulary all the time. The accent comes from being able to read and write and again improves over time by listening/speaking everyday. By not living in Thailand it may be fairly difficult to progress at the same speed I did. This is actually my whole point. As long as you know the basics and some vocabulary ( 500+ words ). You are able to understand bits of what Thais are talking about and from there you are able to practice due to comprehending.....The only way to learn.

I have been here over 12 years in total learning and practicing Thai from day 1. My Thai started to really get good after learning to read and write Thai. The biggest compliment I get is I arrange a meeting and on arrival they are surprised to see a Farang face. Before anyone says "unlikely", check out a young guy on youtube, author is "jadambrad". I think his accent is excellent.

I also want to clarify that I think a Farang teaching Thai would be very beneficial in the early stages, maybe up to 70% fluency. Thereafter I agree totally that a native speaker would be better. I don't think by teaching the backbone of the language will affect their accent per say. That comes from speaking and listening to Thais in everyday conversation.

To Mousehound......... I never said my English was any good

Edited June 1, 2009 by ThaiMaiYaak

[PeaceBlondie]

I doubt a farang would be better by the half way point. Your average farang can't even teach English well. But there seems to be an assumption here, that most professionally trained native Thais know how to teach Thai to farang. I seriously doubt it.

[ThaiMaiYaak]

I doubt a farang would be better by the half way point. Your average farang can't even teach English well. But there seems to be an assumption here, that most professionally trained native Thais know how to teach Thai to farang. I seriously doubt it.

Half way point, ie. 70% in my opinion means you can understand the majority of thai conversation. The remaining 30% is improving your reading and writing and hence your tonal aptitiude gets better.

I totally agree that professionally trained Thai teachers does not mean they are any good at teaching Thai to a Farang but if youre understanding gets to 70% it would be easier for a Thai pro to teach you the intricacies of the language.

[oldsparrow]

Why not? Speaker of the same language has advantage in communication especially for the beginner.

The Gothe Institute uses Thai teacher to teach German in the first class.

The Alliance Francais uses French teacher from the begining and it is quite stressful.

[Gwindarr]

I'd give it a shot. I've been teaching Thai for about 2 years now and Japanese for about 3 months. Its certainly more interesting than teaching English and it tends to pay better.

Of course, there will always be haters and there will be people who wouldn't even consider studying with a non-native speaker. I think thats rather silly. Learning a language has nothing to do with the nationality of your teacher(s). It has to do with how much effort you put into it and how well you are able to make that language part of your daily life. If a non-native speaker can show you how to do that, then by all means, give it a try.

I believe there are a number of reasons why it tends to work so well. Here are a few that come to mind -

1. 
   I remember how I learned Thai. Or rather I remember all the mistakes I made coming into the language as an English speaker. I can steer you clear of almost all of them.
   I can explain what your mouth needs to be doing (without resorting to linguistics jargon) to produce the correct sounds. I admit my artistic ability to recreate the tongue in the mouth is rather weak, but it tends to suffice.
   Native speakers often tell you to say things that they rarely, if ever, say themselves. The goal should be to sound like them rather than sounding like a textbook or phrasebook right?
   I can recommend stuff to read and watch that isn't boring and isn't impossible to read.
   

So if any of that makes sense, then go for it. Don't pressure people into studying with you and I wouldn't recommend suddenly asking your friends to pay you for helping them when you've been doing it all along.

I have learnt Thai and would say I am 90+% fluent. I teach my friends Thai over a beer and their Thai improves considerably after just an hour after I have explained things. The majority have had Thai lessons from Thai teachers but all say that my teaching method is so much easier to understand to the extent that Thai now appears easy; which I think it is.

The problem for Farang that learn Thai initially is that it is explained in a way that seems nigh on impossible and so the majority of people give up at the first hurdle.

However, if you ask anyone that got over the initial hurdle they will all agree that Thai isn't difficult and can be learnt quickly. Thereafter the speed of progress only depends on effort rather than uncomprehension.

I would like to gauge whether people would be interested in learning Thai from a foreigner. There is the small complication of teaching Thai as a foreigner as technically it could be viewed as taking jobs away from a Thai person but being a "consultant" would be ok !

Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Cheers.

[Sir_Sanuk]

I agree that a farang teacher who really knows what he is talking about can be very valuable in the early stages when the language can feel overwhelming.

It's also not that strange when I consider that I was taught French at school in England for 10 years by native English teachers.

Here are some links for learning Thai from westeners that readers of this thread might find useful:

Learn Thai From A White Guy - http://www.learnthaifromawhiteguy.com

Thai101 - http://www.rikker.blogspot.com

Stu Jay Raj - http://www.stujay.blogspot.com

Andrew Biggs - http://www.andrewbiggs.com/blog2/

Edited June 1, 2009 by Sir_Sanuk

[ThaiMaiYaak]

I'd give it a shot. I've been teaching Thai for about 2 years now and Japanese for about 3 months. Its certainly more interesting than teaching English and it tends to pay better.

Of course, there will always be haters and there will be people who wouldn't even consider studying with a non-native speaker. I think thats rather silly. Learning a language has nothing to do with the nationality of your teacher(s). It has to do with how much effort you put into it and how well you are able to make that language part of your daily life. If a non-native speaker can show you how to do that, then by all means, give it a try.

I believe there are a number of reasons why it tends to work so well. Here are a few that come to mind -

1. 
   I remember how I learned Thai. Or rather I remember all the mistakes I made coming into the language as an English speaker. I can steer you clear of almost all of them.
   I can explain what your mouth needs to be doing (without resorting to linguistics jargon) to produce the correct sounds. I admit my artistic ability to recreate the tongue in the mouth is rather weak, but it tends to suffice.
   Native speakers often tell you to say things that they rarely, if ever, say themselves. The goal should be to sound like them rather than sounding like a textbook or phrasebook right?
   I can recommend stuff to read and watch that isn't boring and isn't impossible to read.
   

So if any of that makes sense, then go for it. Don't pressure people into studying with you and I wouldn't recommend suddenly asking your friends to pay you for helping them when you've been doing it all along.

-----------------------

I don't charge my friends cash, only a few beers! I like to help them because I know how much better one can integrate in Thailand by speaking Thai that makes living here even more enjoyable.

[Tod Daniels]

I concur with some posters that the nationality of the teacher is not necessarily the main criteria nor is being a native born speaker a benchmark as to your qualifications to teach. I think it is much more important that the said teacher has the ability to explain grammar rules, as well as clearly enunciating the language they are teaching.

I've met more than my share of native thai speakers aka teachers in the various private thai language schools who sucked totally at having even a small ability to teach thai to foreigners. I will also ad that I’ve met my fair share of thai teachers who excelled at their job even when teaching with exceptionally bad methodology.

I think the main reason some thais suck at teaching thai to foreigners is; thais are taught thai by ROTE, not by rules. This is completely opposite how they are taught english in school; which is by rules not rote (and one of the reasons thais are reticent to speak english for fear they will break a rule).

To the proponents who say you should learn thai from speaking to natives. Please realize MOST of the population in this country (in excess of 65%) has an education level somewhere between P-3 and P-6. They would neither be my first choice to learn from nor would I wish to emulate their speech patterns.

I for one would have no issue learning thai from a foreigner; IF that foreigner actually had a good grasp of the language, as well as an understanding in the differences in structure between spoken and written thai. Of course they should also have the ability to convey the knowledge in an understandable way.

[inthepink]

To the proponents who say you should learn thai from speaking to natives. Please realize MOST of the population in this country (in excess of 65%) has an education level somewhere between P-3 and P-6. They would neither be my first choice to learn from nor would I wish to emulate their speech patterns.

You make some very valid points, but the above one is a bit silly. If we are going to ask is it better to learn Thai from a fluent, well-educated, non-native speaker or a rice farmer's daughter who left school at the age of 13, then I don't think the question even needs asking really. But why on earth would you seek out someone like that to learn from? I wouldn't ask a British factory worker to teach me the finer points of English grammar.

But, comparing like for like, I would rather learn from a well-educated Thai than a non-native speaker. There are thousands of Thai people who have studied abroad for a number of years and speak fluent English. Most of them probably earn too much money to want to teach for a living, but I'm sure there are very capable teachers about if you look for them.

Edited June 2, 2009 by inthepink

[desi]

I would like to gauge whether people would be interested in learning Thai from a foreigner.

I do believe that learning Thai from a foreigner has merits. And not just Thai, but any foreign language. Locals did not go through the same struggles as a second language learner in their own language, so cannot relate to all the niggling problems that hold up the process (and sometimes bring it to a complete stop). And for Thai (as mentioned), there is the additional learning by rote issue...

But I also believe that the tones need to be honed with the help of a local Thai. I've never heard an expat speak Thai without an accent. And while there may be some out there, I don't know any personally.

[meadish_sweetball]

I've never heard an expat speak Thai without an accent.

It's not the norm, but I've met a fair number. The problem as I see it is that as a beginner, one may not be able to assess an accent properly unless it is completely blatant.

[desi]

...as a beginner, one may not be able to assess an accent properly unless it is completely blatant.

Which brings up a totally different problem. How are beginners to judge a good Thai teacher? Expat, or local?

Is there any one school in BKK teaching Thai that stands out as a good place to learn Thai without getting misconceptions thrown in?