Boy Chosen By Dalai Lama Turns Back On Buddhist Order

[camerata]

Boy chosen by Dalai Lama turns back on Buddhist order

As a toddler, he was put on a throne and worshipped as by monks who treated him like a god. But the boy chosen by the Dalai Lama as a reincarnation of a spiritual leader has caused consternation – and some embarrassment – for Tibetan Buddhists by turning his back on the order that had such high hopes for him.

Instead of leading a monastic life, Osel Hita Torres now sports baggy trousers and long hair, and is more likely to quote Jimi Hendrix than Buddha.

Yesterday he bemoaned the misery of a youth deprived of television, football and girls. Movies were also forbidden – except for a sanctioned screening of The Golden Child starring Eddie Murphy, about a kidnapped child lama with magical powers. "I never felt like that boy," he said.

He is now studying film in Madrid and has denounced the Buddhist order that elevated him to guru status. "They took me away from my family and stuck me in a medieval situation in which I suffered a great deal," said Torres, 24, describing how he was whisked from obscurity in Granada to a monastery in southern India. "It was like living a lie," he told the Spanish newspaper El Mundo. Despite his rebelliousness, he is still known as Lama Tenzin Osel Rinpoche and revered by the Buddhist community. A prayer for his "long life" still adorns the website of the Foundation to Preserve the Mahayana Tradition, which has 130 centres around the world. The website features a biography of the renegade guru that gushes about his peaceful, meditative countenance as a baby. In Tibetan Buddhism, a lama is one of a lineage of reincarnated spiritual leaders, the most famous of which is the Dalai Lama.

According to the foundation biography, another leader suspected Torres was the reincarnation of the recently deceased Lama Yeshe when he was only five months old. In 1986, at 14 months, his parents took him to see the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala, India. The toddler was chosen out of nine other candidates and eventually "enthroned".

At six, he was allowed to socialise only with other reincarnated souls – though for a time he said he lived next to the actor Richard Gere's cabin.

By 18, he had never seen couples kiss. His first disco experience was a shock. "I was amazed to watch everyone dance. What were all those people doing, bouncing, stuck to one another, enclosed in a box full of smoke?"

Source.

[fabianfred]

I read the book many years ago called "Reincarnation" about his being recognised as the Tulku of Lama Yeshe. I was also present when he visited a Buddhist centre in HongKong when he was about nine.

Although these beings are supposed to be very spiritually advanced, I'm not sure how they would rank upon the Theravada scale, as I'm not really a student of Tibetan buddhism.

Undoubtably they must have gained to stream-entry.... but if Arahants..... would they be able to return and take rebirth?

I am sure Arahants can take on human form for the purpose of teaching....but probably not go through the whole birth process...

The way these young recognised incarnations are forced into a monastic life is a bit suspect though.

[real]

Hi,

An interesting film on the related topic seems to come soon.

"Tulku is a documentary film about young people caught between the modern culture they were born into and the ancient Tibetan Buddhist culture from which they were reborn. They are Western tulkus ‐ all of them recognized when they were children as reincarnations of great Tibetan Buddhist masters. Filmmaker Gesar Mukpo is one of them. In this film, he sets out to meet others like him ‐ young people struggling between modern and ancient, East and West."

quoted from http://www.nfb.ca/film/tulku_trailer/

There,you can watch the trailer too.

[jumnien]

Sounds like the same type of spiritual abuse of children that is often experienced in the West amongst the more fundamentalist Christian cults. Tragic really, very tragic. Hopefully, the wounds will heal with time...

[phetaroi]

Sounds like the same type of spiritual abuse of children that is often experienced in the West amongst the more fundamentalist Christian cults. Tragic really, very tragic. Hopefully, the wounds will heal with time...

I'm not sure I would call it abuse when considered within the context of the culture involved.

However, it seems very un-Buddhist to me. I think of Buddhism as a path to be voluntarily explored by a person, not an exploration where one is forced on the road and shoved along.

[agent69]

However, it seems very un-Buddhist to me. I think of Buddhism as a path to be voluntarily explored by a person, not an exploration where one is forced on the road and shoved along.

It's just being human. It's like parents wanting their kids to be something they may not want to be when they grow up. I don't see much difference except for the scale of it.

The outcome I see is not so bad. At the end, the kid gets what he believed he lost. The Tebatans still have their hope that he would return to his 'destiny'. To them this is not the end of his journey. That sounds like a good compromise.

[mbkudu]

Right on kid! Those people are sh!ts to force that on him. You only have one life. Live it the way you want to live it; not the way someone else wants you to live it. The Dalai's a fraud. The dude never gets to the point when he's speaking. Just speaks around in circles like a fukcin politician.

[phetaroi]

Right on kid! Those people are sh!ts to force that on him. You only have one life. Live it the way you want to live it; not the way someone else wants you to live it. The Dalai's a fraud. The dude never gets to the point when he's speaking. Just speaks around in circles like a fukcin politician.

LOL

1. You're criticizing the Dalai Lama, who -- right or wrong -- can have extremely intelligent and philosophical discussions. Your retort is "Right on kid". "those people are sh!ts". "The dude never gets to the point...". "...like a fukcin politician".

2. "You only have one life." Well, not if you're Buddhist.

3. They are forcing it on him? Let's see. He walked away from it. Exactly what kind of force is that?

4. The Dalai Lama is part politician and part spiritual leader. Do you know anything about his role in the world?

Dude, you're really shallow.

[Svenn]

Right on kid! Those people are sh!ts to force that on him. You only have one life. Live it the way you want to live it; not the way someone else wants you to live it. The Dalai's a fraud. The dude never gets to the point when he's speaking. Just speaks around in circles like a fukcin politician.

LOL

1. You're criticizing the Dalai Lama, who -- right or wrong -- can have extremely intelligent and philosophical discussions. Your retort is "Right on kid". "those people are sh!ts". "The dude never gets to the point...". "...like a fukcin politician".

2. "You only have one life." Well, not if you're Buddhist.

3. They are forcing it on him? Let's see. He walked away from it. Exactly what kind of force is that?

4. The Dalai Lama is part politician and part spiritual leader. Do you know anything about his role in the world?

Dude, you're really shallow.

I tend to find that the Dalai Lama is not that innovative of a teacher- he indeed usually just regurgitates tired phrases and lines of logic one can find in the texts. Maybe that's the kind of teacher you want, but it's not what I'd call extremely intelligent or philosophical. Not all Buddhists believe in reincarnation. The Dalai Lamas and their government of ancient Tibet used to routinely burn and torture even the most petty criminals. It was by no means a Buddhist fantasy-land Westerners invision. Tibetan Buddhism is a parochial, quasi-political dogma... why so many defend it i don't know.

[camerata]

Movies were also forbidden – except for a sanctioned screening of The Golden Child starring Eddie Murphy, about a kidnapped child lama with magical powers.

That's child abuse!!!

[agent69]

I think what they do is their business. Criticising someone without hearing or learning all the facts is just plain ignorance. And I don't think I have to explain what that means in Buddhist point of view.

A lot of Buddhist teaching helps us with halting before reacting. Take time to gather the information that helps us in making decision. Most of the time the process will help us think and learn how to forgive.

When I was young my mum used to teach me, "Son, do not criticise a monk. It's a bad karma." The season she told me was that we have no idea of knowing how much merit they have or how far they have gone through the path to the enlightenment. I have been thinking what if I had doubt about a monk. How would that be different to saying it out loud in public. Then I realised that if I said something in public, it influences other people's thought. Still it's not good but we're only human. The whole point is if you had doubt about a person, keep it to yourself unless you had all the facts.

[agent69]

Movies were also forbidden – except for a sanctioned screening of The Golden Child starring Eddie Murphy, about a kidnapped child lama with magical powers.

That's child abuse!!!

LOL, true.

[rockyysdt]

According to the foundation biography, another leader suspected Torres was the reincarnation of the recently deceased Lama Yeshe when he was only five months old. In 1986, at 14 months, his parents took him to see the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala, India. The toddler was chosen out of nine other candidates and eventually "enthroned".

The issue I have, and this also applies to the current Dali Lama, is how can they know if these infants are reincarnations of previous Lamas?

Wouldn't this only be possible if the see-er is enlightened?

If they base their decisions on gut feeling, then this exposes their entire belief structure to ridicule.

[camerata]

Read The Dance of 17 Lives: The Incredible True Story of Tibet's 17th Karmapa by Mick Brown, or The Search for the Panchen Lama by Isabel Hilton. There's a lot more to it than gut feeling, but it's not a science either.

[rockyysdt]

Read The Dance of 17 Lives: The Incredible True Story of Tibet's 17th Karmapa by Mick Brown, or The Search for the Panchen Lama by Isabel Hilton. There's a lot more to it than gut feeling, but it's not a science either.

Ahead of reading these sources, does that mean you believe it's a high probability that Osel Hita Torres is a Lama reincarnate?

[agent69]

According to the foundation biography, another leader suspected Torres was the reincarnation of the recently deceased Lama Yeshe when he was only five months old. In 1986, at 14 months, his parents took him to see the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala, India. The toddler was chosen out of nine other candidates and eventually "enthroned".

The issue I have, and this also applies to the current Dali Lama, is how can they know if these infants are reincarnations of previous Lamas?

Wouldn't this only be possible if the see-er is enlightened?

If they base their decisions on gut feeling, then this exposes their entire belief structure to ridicule.

Nope, you don't really need to reach the enlightenment to be able to 'see' or 'feel' things. Meditaion is a key. At least medition will bring you wisdom. Most of people who are excel in medition have this insight that most of the times make you think, 'ah, how come I haven't thought of that!'

[camerata]

Ahead of reading these sources, does that mean you believe it's a high probability that Osel Hita Torres is a Lama reincarnate?

For those who believe in the reincarnation of a tulku, it's mainly a matter of whether the correct procedures were carried out when he was recognized. This is usually a combination of clues left by the former tulku and whether the child can recognize objects that belonged to his former self. But clues can be ambiguous and controversies can result, which is why there are currently two claimants to the position of 17th Karmapa. In some cases it's traditional that a certain tulku is always the one to recognize another, as in the case of the Panchen Lamas recognizing the Dalai Lamas (and vice versa) - the reason the Chinese kidnapped the last Panchen Lama and declared that no lama can reincarnate without official permission.

You can read Osel's story here on page 56.

As he is now:

[real]

Osel's new message from http://www.fpmt.org/Teachers/Osel/ June 2009

Dear Friends,

It is important to have a good experience of what life is. I have been really lucky to be able to experience both western and eastern cultures and I am so grateful to everyone who has helped me in both cultures. In combination, being in India and the West has been a rich experience that I’ve been privileged to absorb from both sides.

There were times in India when it was hard to accept the destiny. Being treated differently, and feeling apart. But that experience was really good and I so appreciate it.

However, certain media find ways to sensationalize and exaggerate an unusual story. So I hope that what appears in news print is not read and taken too literally. Don't believe everything that is written!

Experience shows that however hard one tries in interviews to sincerely and honestly convey key information, the printed result can tend towards sensationalism to get the most attention.

FPMT is doing a great job and Lama Zopa is an immensely special person - very inspiring and a great yogi.

Personally, my job is to find new ways in which to discover the true nature of our being. There is no separation between myself and FPMT - we are all working together in so many aspects and terrains. Humanity is our office. Besides, I don’t really qualify very much in Buddhist studies, because I didn’t finish them, so working together is the clue.l

So I’m trying to find a different way for this future generation. One of the ways is through music, movies and audio-visual techniques. In a movie you can condense so many different stories. You can put in music, you can put in different situations and messages. Even just the sunset can be enough to give you peace to find a moment of meditation in yourself. There are so many different millions of possibilities in movies. And not just movies, but documentaries actually going somewhere and interviewing people who may have reached a level on their path where they are at peace with themselves, and so much more....!!!

That’s kind of what I’m planning to do. But it is one thing is to plan and another for things to actually happen. So we’re back to mental projections. But for now, that’s what I am hoping to do.

Big Love

Osel

[rockyysdt]

..Nope, you don't really need to reach the enlightenment to be able to 'see' or 'feel' things. Meditaion is a key. At least medition will bring you wisdom. Most of people who are excel in medition have this insight that most of the times make you think, 'ah, how come I haven't thought of that!'

I understood that we should be wary of visions & experiences during meditative periods as these may be associated with the ego.

When faced with such experiences shouldn't we observe them without attachment until they pass?

Isn't insight gained from self awareness (see yourself as you are and how you think & react), different from having supernatural experiences?

[agent69]

..Nope, you don't really need to reach the enlightenment to be able to 'see' or 'feel' things. Meditaion is a key. At least medition will bring you wisdom. Most of people who are excel in medition have this insight that most of the times make you think, 'ah, how come I haven't thought of that!'

I understood that we should be wary of visions & experiences during meditative periods as these may be associated with the ego.

When faced with such experiences shouldn't we observe them without attachment until they pass?

Isn't insight gained from self awareness (see yourself as you are and how you think & react), different from having supernatural experiences?

During meditation sessions you may experience events. And yes, you should observe that all those are not permanent.

When we use the word supernatural, we are really say in the relative sense. Let's just say if one will encounter a 'supernatural' event during their meditation sessions, will that just make it a natural event? It is supernatural only when we do not understand it.

I have been taught that we should be detach of all these events or power because none of them bring us our ultimate goal. They will only bring us delusion.

Meditation can be compared to everyday work. When we pay attention to our work, we get better at it. We gain new knowledge to improve our skills. We have better understanding of how things work and how they get to that point.

[deprogrammed]

Right on kid! Those people are sh!ts to force that on him. You only have one life. Live it the way you want to live it; not the way someone else wants you to live it. The Dalai's a fraud. The dude never gets to the point when he's speaking. Just speaks around in circles like a fukcin politician.

Didn't have much in way of a knowledgable opinion untill I watched an interview where he stated that G W Bush was a good guy and his good friend. Need I say more

[agent69]

Right on kid! Those people are sh!ts to force that on him. You only have one life. Live it the way you want to live it; not the way someone else wants you to live it. The Dalai's a fraud. The dude never gets to the point when he's speaking. Just speaks around in circles like a fukcin politician.

Didn't have much in way of a knowledgable opinion untill I watched an interview where he stated that G W Bush was a good guy and his good friend. Need I say more

haha, he might be right there. Wasn't it Cheney who ran the country during the Bush administration?

[rockyysdt]

During meditation sessions you may experience events. And yes, you should observe that all those are not permanent.

When we use the word supernatural, we are really say in the relative sense. Let's just say if one will encounter a 'supernatural' event during their meditation sessions, will that just make it a natural event? It is supernatural only when we do not understand it.

I have been taught that we should be detach of all these events or power because none of them bring us our ultimate goal. They will only bring us delusion.

This is why I felt that the Dalai Lama could not authoritatively choose Osel Hita Torres as a Lama reincarnate unless he himself was enlightened, even if he used special tests.

If it came down to two possibilities towards the end of the process, it sounds like a competition to me.

[orchis]

They lost me when Steve Seagal was recognised as a tulku.

[camerata]

A broader view in Time Magazine's article.

The abdication of the anointed tulku is a significant embarrassment to the group he was supposed to head, the powerhouse Foundation for the Preservation of the Monastic Tradition (FPMT), the foremost Tibetan teaching organization in the West. It also challenges Westerners who have adopted Buddhism to find more sophisticated ways of understanding its magical side.

Robert Thurman, a Buddhist scholar, former monk and friend of the Dalai Lama, recounts that when told years ago that Hita was to receive a traditional Buddhist education in India he expressed concern. Thurman's argument: "If he wanted Tibetan traditional [education] he could have reincarnated in a Tibetan family in exile." The result of the misplacement, he says, is that Hita "has broken away in a full-blown identity crisis." Thurman thinks that after some time in our "busy postmodern world," Hita may see the value of the Tibetan tradition, "which he will then be able to approach or not, of his own free choice." And, he adds, "More power to him!"

[agent69]

During meditation sessions you may experience events. And yes, you should observe that all those are not permanent.

When we use the word supernatural, we are really say in the relative sense. Let's just say if one will encounter a 'supernatural' event during their meditation sessions, will that just make it a natural event? It is supernatural only when we do not understand it.

I have been taught that we should be detach of all these events or power because none of them bring us our ultimate goal. They will only bring us delusion.

This is why I felt that the Dalai Lama could not authoritatively choose Osel Hita Torres as a Lama reincarnate unless he himself was enlightened, even if he used special tests.

If it came down to two possibilities towards the end of the process, it sounds like a competition to me.

The problem is how we know if a person was enlightened.

Would you be angry if this happened to you? Would you be able to forgive the person who forced you to become a person you'd never chosen to be?

[rockyysdt]

The problem is how do we know if a person was enlightened.

Would you be angry if this happened to you? Would you be able to forgive the person who forced you to become a person you'd never chosen to be?

If an unenlightened person made the choice based on ego & custom then of course the chosen one may have a right to be angry.

Presumably if an enlightened person made the choice, based on guidance with the "unconditioned & pemananent" then there would be no issue. Being devine everything would fall into place.

[chen168]

I believe The Greatest Spiritual Master on this earth today is His Holiness The Dalai Lama. I think he is a fully Enlightened Buddha and the human manifestation of Avalokitesvara, the Buddha of Compassion, who chose to reincarnate to serve the sentient beings. I have been his student since 1975 living 13 years in India and Nepal and I go to India once or twice a year to receive more teachings from him... I was also a student of the incomparable Kind Lama Yeshe for 7 years up until his passing in Calif. I believe Osel is without question his reincarnation. Dharmakaya manifests in many remarkable ways to benefit the sentient beings.

[matt888]

Right on kid! Those people are sh!ts to force that on him. You only have one life. Live it the way you want to live it; not the way someone else wants you to live it. The Dalai's a fraud. The dude never gets to the point when he's speaking. Just speaks around in circles like a fukcin politician.

LOL

1. You're criticizing the Dalai Lama, who -- right or wrong -- can have extremely intelligent and philosophical discussions. Your retort is "Right on kid". "those people are sh!ts". "The dude never gets to the point...". "...like a fukcin politician".

2. "You only have one life." Well, not if you're Buddhist.

3. They are forcing it on him? Let's see. He walked away from it. Exactly what kind of force is that?

4. The Dalai Lama is part politician and part spiritual leader. Do you know anything about his role in the world?

Dude, you're really shallow.

I tend to find that the Dalai Lama is not that innovative of a teacher- he indeed usually just regurgitates tired phrases and lines of logic one can find in the texts. Maybe that's the kind of teacher you want, but it's not what I'd call extremely intelligent or philosophical. Not all Buddhists believe in reincarnation. The Dalai Lamas and their government of ancient Tibet used to routinely burn and torture even the most petty criminals. It was by no means a Buddhist fantasy-land Westerners invision. Tibetan Buddhism is a parochial, quasi-political dogma... why so many defend it i don't know.

please tell me where you read this 'The Dalai Lamas and their government of ancient Tibet used to routinely burn and torture even the most petty criminals' any weblink or book reference would be appreciated.

thanks

[camerata]

please tell me where you read this 'The Dalai Lamas and their government of ancient Tibet used to routinely burn and torture even the most petty criminals' any weblink or book reference would be appreciated.

thanks

I don't recall anything about torture and burning, but if you read Tibet, Tibet by Patrick French you'll find that prior to the Chinese occupation criminals were punished by having their eyes put out, so Lhasa was full of blind beggars. Shocking but true.