Thailand: Democracy Or Dictatorship....

[international]

SLT,

[international]

YEAH SORRY ABOUT THAT...NEW TO THE SYSTEM.

The major victory khun Taksin which i friendly call toksin has won... we are in over our heads, what is he setting up? what new combine is he going to find in order to increase his personnal wealth and to make his status forever more strong and affirmed. He has made in his first year an increase of 70 % of his own founds. I never saw a DEMOCRATIC prime minister do that. That would be fine iof it wasn't Thailand's money... a democracie is not giving 500 hundred baths to everyone... ofcourse a farmer is going to accept and vote for you, he took everything away from them, including the market prices and the prices of goods (which have increased) but he gives it back to them...What an angel!!!! not only has he closed the gas stations from 12 00 to 5 am but he also increased the price of the petrol to contain the inflation he is NOT facing... BS... the important thing is that THE ECONOMY IS BOOMING.... my god how can people beleive that... Explain to me how it could grow, there is just no way, ITA's...(international trade agreements), yeah sure... Wonder why the french president and financial ministers went to the countries around Thailand to make deals???????? It is getting harder and harder to live in this country... Banks are seizing houses and cars from people who can not pay their loans,,, A LITTLE FEEL FROM, OH SAY, 1997?

Oh well sorry if this does not comply to other people's opinion, thats mine, Thailand needs money for the rural population and middle class not for the high ones. The point is that the rich get richer and guess what... the poor gets poorer.

................................................................................

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[cdnvic]

Just because the guy you don't like won doesn't make it any less of a democracy.

cv

[international]

Just because the guy you don't like won doesn't make it any less of a democracy.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Should i make more clear... perhaps.

CN whats the definition of democracie?

CN what were the new law changes in Thailand since 2001?

CN what are the current laws for farangs to enter Thiland?

CN why did 2000 people get killed including innocent against rug lords?

CN why hasn't pataya suffered the same treatment?

CN what world do you live in??????

The guy that won is destroying a countries economy, health, trade.... do you want more, i have hundreds of examples....

Now, i do beleive in free choice as well.... Ask yourself the fallowing question being a farmer " who should i vote for?" "this one gives me five hundred the others nothing... oh g i wonder" democracie is freewill... need another hint...

Ah perhaps freedom of speech?? How come a Bangkok post editor gets fired:

Answer a) because he did not do his job

Answer because he wrote a story on Taksin

oopsidaisy if u choose a. you might want to read the constitution a bit more thouroughly son, but if u answered b then you could start to realise that censor is present and in role that he corrupts people to vote for him ect...

Need more...

[Jai Dee]

CN why did 2000 people get killed including innocent against rug lords?

Sorry... couldn't resist this one...

Wot's a "rug lord"?

Do they have a wardrobe of "rugs"?

[international]

CN why did 2000 people get killed including innocent against rug lords?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry... couldn't resist this one...

Wot's a "rug lord"?

Do they have a wardrobe of "rugs"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah i know i am sorry i meant drug lord. but i hear the rugs are nice too... who knows... thanks. write in english but think in french sometimes get mixed up...

[taxexile]

thaksin is far from perfect but he's the best that thailand has got at the moment , the other parties are led by useless pseudo politicians , and when they had power did very little to improve things (other than their own wealth).

thaksin is a hands on manager (dictator ?) and that is what thailand needs right now.

he made his money from dubious business associations and practices but so did almost every other wealthy person here , its how its done. this is not the west.

corruption is so ingrained here that it cannot be eradicated overnight and slow change is preferable to quick change.

i think he may very well lead thailand onwards and forwards over the next few years , western style democracy here would get the country nowhere ,it would be hijacked by the wrong people. thailand is not ready, nor are most people educated enough to vote thoughtfully.

thailand does need a dictatorial style of leadership to knock some order into the country if it is to compete on equal terms with other asian countries.

i dont like him or his methods very much , but if not him , then who else.

i think he and his dictatorial style are right for thailand at this moment.

he has got four more years and we will see.

[aaaaaa]

Just because the guy you don't like won doesn't make it any less of a democracy.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks for objective point ! I think objectiveness is lacking in this Forum mostly.

and I'm surprised, amazed and delighted by this thread or rather by the comments. never could imagine anyone could make such. so far people tend only to critisie (to sayplotely).

I can't say I'm supporter of Thaksin (or of any political leader in any country in nowdasy world in this regard), but as any human he does have his flaws and positive sides too. and so far at least according to Thai ppl he made lot of positive changes for country.

and dictatorship? ha! perhaps young chaps (well, those born after 2nd world war are realetively young) from the Western prosperious "democracies" have no even approximate or slightest idea of dictatorship. well, what was there: Pinochet, PolPot, Mao, or N. Korea? of course Stalin and Saddam everyone would name immidietly. but from all those labelling Thaksin as dictator had any personal experience of those most recent REAL dictatorship regimes ? I doubt it. well, my friend whom I know for last couple of years is from Iraq and was here on UN refugeee status. he told me his personal experience. and I know from people with first hand experience about Stalin's dictatorship. and I'm sure - Thailand is very very far from that.

and if Thailand is under dictatorship, then what can be said about some other , very developed and "democratic" countries?

I have received a letter from business partner in USA today and here are few things he wrote to me :

''Believe it or not, it's not so much the money with me either - I feel I'm wronged.

I wish I could speak my mind to this custom official, but I could tell when talking to him, that he has the authority to do whatever he wants... I know he has the authority to accept or deny....

I am just a bit frustrated by the process in general. I paid like a citizen, for perfectly legal and honest merchandise, yet now I am under threat of criminal prosecution if something like this happens again , and told to fork over $300, can you see how this whole affair has put me off? I would be arrested and put on trial...."

so, he also does feel some injustice or whatever towards the system which wronged him. should we jump to conclusions that that is also a dictatorship - to treat an honest citizen as a criminal or suspect?

and I'm sure many other examples can be given by many other ppl.

so, my point is - better to try being objective and at least understand facts comparison , like in this case whatever happens in Thailand with real dictatorship. I don't recall Bush naming Thailand as potential target for holy war for 'freedom' as he did about Iraq or Iran, N. Korea and Syria nowdays - well, he is sort of biggest if not only authority nowdays regarding democracy and freedom and dictatorship and "axises of evil" - isn't he ? but as I recall - even he with his most radical views never said anything about Thailand being a dictatorship. or is he more broad minded and progressive than many ppl in this Forum ?

if some academician said something because perhpas he realises his shaky position due to corruption or whatever other reason threaten it and desperately tries to keep it - does that mean everybody agrees with him? academitians nowdays - not always and not all of them so selfless and objective like say who was that - Sakharov who was REALY fighting against dictatorship and comunism in Soviet Russia ? and another point is: academitions surely enjoy and excersise bigger previlages than many - in fact hundreds if not thousands, not single opinions like his - ordinary normal people in this country whose voice can't be brodcasted so wide as his because of his postion, but who actually do support present government and would probably disagree with him entirely.

I was told last week by a buddy about PolPot in neighbouring to Thailand Cambodia - one of first things he did - simply executed all the academitians and even teachers and other intellectuals. as did other dictators in their times - be it nazis, Stalin or Pakistanis during their genocide in Bangladesh. so far I never heard of Thaksin ordering to shoot academicians. only drug lords - and then also not without discrimination, as I remember there was also certain process like giving them notice and warning to come and surrender or report to local police. anyway, whatever... so, that was the only radical step for which he was critised in the West - that because of his such war on drugs more than 2500 people were killed. but not academitions or any those who does positive contribution to country....

again, I'm not advocating anyone - be it Thaksin or whoever. but common, Thailand is not dictatorship - otherwise Tony Blair would surely told Brits not to visit it - as he very recently "recommended" about Burma (see other thread somewhere around in this Forum).

[international]

thaksin is far from perfect but he's the best that thailand has got at the moment , the other parties are led by useless pseudo politicians , and when they had power did very little to improve things (other than their own wealth).

thaksin is a hands on manager (dictator ?) and that is what thailand needs right now.

he made his money from dubious business associations and practices but so did almost every other wealthy person here , its how its done. this is not the west.

corruption is so ingrained here that it cannot be eradicated overnight and slow change is preferable to quick change.

i think he may very well lead thailand onwards and forwards over the next few years , western style democracy here would get the country nowhere ,it would be hijacked by the wrong people. thailand is not ready, nor are most people educated enough to vote thoughtfully.

thailand does need a dictatorial style of leadership to knock some order into the country if it is to compete on equal terms with other asian countries.

i dont like him or his methods very much , but if not him , then who else.

i think he and his dictatorial style are right for thailand at this moment.

he has got four more years and we will see.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the view:

Thailand, to my opinion(this is the second governemnt i see here) is making a mistake. Thaksin is a man of strentgh certainly but meine heim he is using it into doll politics, he is not a politician but a businessman. He runs companies down with the increase in the Euro and decrease in the dollar that can only be profitable. He buys the shares of many compagnies off of the governemnt help which he directs. In the law, it is not permitted to have such aquisicions from a government. well the banks are in over their heads. wonder why? the economy is not growing its slowing down further and further. I completly agree with the point that it must take a certain amount of time to develop not overnight. but Thailand is not developping its regressing... his policies are very dangerous to the backbone of the country even, if, he tries to make them beleive he is helping them. Building infrastructure is today's new hobbie. Once again why do you build by the mass when u don't really need to?? (basic economical concept) to fight off what?...

I wish i could agree with you on him being the right man of today but he would have been the right man 50 years ago...

there is a lot of potential.. the man that is needed is a man who will reform the educational system which is obsolete and reform the laws on animal welfare and environment. Thailand needs a person in charge of the country not in charge of his wallet.....

[taxexile]

the man that is needed is a man who will reform the educational system

the politicians know that once the electorate get educated and smart then their time is up !!

[international]

the man that is needed is a man who will reform the educational system

the politicians know that once the electorate get educated and smart then their time is up !!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quot

my man here is the mistake of judgement that most people make... it does not end the politician it changes the politicians intio better policy maker and smarter economical planners as they have to insure the electorat, however, this takes time and changement must happen now....

"it is better to educate a man to fish than to give him the fish..." one day or another this fact is bound to make this political scene a better one not for the politicians but for the people.

[toastwars]

Just because the guy you don't like won doesn't make it any less of a democracy.

cv

I don't recall Bush naming Thailand as potential target for holy war for 'freedom' as he did about Iraq or Iran, N. Korea and Syria nowdays - well, he is sort of biggest if not only authority nowdays regarding democracy and freedom and dictatorship and "axises of evil" - isn't he ? but as I recall - even he with his most radical views never said anything about Thailand being a dictatorship. or is he more broad minded and progressive than many ppl in this Forum ?

The Day I use George W as a barometer for my views on foreign policy is the day I chuck it all in and reach for the bleach and strong rope, I would suggest that any broad minded person who actually takes the time to experience and learn about a foriegn country do the same if they ever find themselves looking for guidance from that war mongering, self obsessed moron, Thanks aaaaa but choose your mentors with a little more care and actual thought next time

[Ajarn]

the man that is needed is a man who will reform the educational system

the politicians know that once the electorate get educated and smart then their time is up !!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Bangkok electorate is, historically, the 'educated' group of voters, but this time they voted in Thaksin... and Chuwit

Thaksin is good for most businesses, and money rules the roost here...

Educational reform and poverty eradication is bound to slow here unless they want to import more Burmese, Lao and Cambodians in to do the shit jobs.... Factory owners, of which MANY are foreign-owned, need that supply of people willing to work for the smallest amount -the un-educated- or many will move on to other, poorer countries in the immediate vicinity... Thaksin is well aware of that, even if his personal businesses require mostly skilled and educated labour. Let's just see how he does in this term. Last term, he was a dud- even when he himself had that portfolio (which is a 'B' ministry at best, in terms of power and financial returns. The Interior, Ag, and Commerce Ministries are the favorites). I hope he'll do better. 'No Progress' in 4 years doesn't seem to bode well for the next 4 years...

Thaksin, by definition, is a Dictator...

dictator

· n.

1 a ruler with total power over a country. Ø an autocratic person.2 (in ancient Rome) a chief magistrate with absolute power, appointed in an emergency.

Can anyone show me where he doesn't have total power, and is not an Autocrat?

He who controls Parliment, controls the country.

But, that should not be the point of too much focus, I believe. The focus should be on how he uses that power... Thaksin clearly does not favour a free press, as he has said and shown many times, and even using state power to harrass and punish 'offenders'... This can, and has, made it difficult for even the educated to learn the truth of what the government is up to, even if he says he has nothing to hide...

The citizens of Thailand made their choices, plain and simple. I just hope Thaksin makes them happy. I can escape anytime I need to, but most of them are stuck here, for better or for worse.

[khunlungphudhu]

Compared to what has gone before in Thai politics, Thaksin is a pussy cat. And I for one can understand the Thai's acceptance of him. But, having said that, I do feel that it is a dangerous game they are playing.

Time will tell!

[chatchy]

Thailand is not a democracy. There is no recognized country that is a democracy, period.

Whether it is a dictatorship is still not decided.

[gburns57au]

Having been a regular visitor to Baan Kruad in Buriram between 93-96 and then re-visiting there in early 2004.....I have seen the changes that have come about there and it is immense.

More local traders, New houses going up everywhere (not all falang owned), No more 22km trips to the ATM in Prakhonshai....ATM now in Baan Kruad, A big increase in nightlife facilities, improved roads and lighting, more job opportunities in the local area.

The problem Thaksin has is that he will need to maintain this growth or the rural Thais will dump him.....Thai voters by and large are impatient people. They dumped Chuan Leekpai because he was too methodical and slow and Thaksin offered exciting changes and fast results.

[Ajarn]

Whether it is a dictatorship is still not decided.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, what's to be decided is whether it's a Benevolent Dictator, or not

[ProfessorFart]

There is a disturbing historical parallel which I will attempt to nutshell here.

Plaek Phibul Songkhram and Sarit Thannarat (in real life an dipsomaniac womaniser) who (often brutally) oppressed the media and any opponents (sound familiar?) are often seen as the founders of industrialisation and modernity in Thailand. In truth they were dictators and pretty nasty men.

Their major critics at the time (well known examples of these are the literary figures Lao Kammkorn and Jit Phumisak and Pridi Panomyong) were all brutally surpressed for open criticsm of the governments. First by coming under pressure from bodies like AMLO and then were hounded from the country or in the case of Phumisak were murdered.

All of these events gave rise to the martyrisation of the likes of Pridi, Phumisak, Siburapha (as well as many other left wing opponents of dictators) by left wing student movements which, as their strength grew and grew in the face of anti communist paranoia in Thailand, exploded in the events of Thammasat 73 + 76. Events which scar modern Thai history.

In this day and age, the paranoia about communism has been replaced by the threat of international terrorism and a fear of Islam amongst the right, and fear of US foreign policy by the left.

The press is yet again being opressed and pressure is put on political opponents of the current leader.

Student movements in Thailand are getting strong again. Fueled by anti Bush/anti war sentiment there is a clear movement towards new world thought. Something the Thai PM doesn't want to see from his people.

I wonder if instead of running off into the jungles of Laos and North and Northeastern Thailand to join the communist insurgents they will head South to join JI who will be seen as the natural opponents of the government and the US.

Although it is early days yet, storm clouds are gathering. The left and the right are alive and strong in Thailand and if the PM doesn't learn from history, they will collide again.

It maybe a worst case scenario but it is one the PM has to be aware of.

Edited February 10, 2005 by ProfessorFart

[Mrs. Merlin]

the man that is needed is a man who will reform the educational system

the politicians know that once the electorate get educated and smart then their time is up !!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quot

my man here is the mistake of judgement that most people make... it does not end the politician it changes the politicians intio better policy maker and smarter economical planners as they have to insure the electorat, however, this takes time and changement must happen now....

"it is better to educate a man to fish than to give him the fish..." one day or another this fact is bound to make this political scene a better one not for the politicians but for the people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is my opinion that leaders in SEA keep their pple ignorant of the machinations of the gov't doings...they "tell" the pple everything they do is for their own good...they even hand out awards and gifts to pple frequently to let them think they are important to their country ...at the same time keeping the pple ignorant and not tooo educated until they themselves have raped their own country to their own financial benefits...remember, if you let the common man get to smart, he'll challenge your position.

[aaaaaa]

Thailand is not a democracy.  There is no recognized country that is a democracy, period.

Whether it is a dictatorship is still not decided.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what's a democracy anyway?

in its modern form it is obviously not as it supposed to be by original definition - something like "People's rule" or "voice" - providing freedoms / liberties to those people. nowdays "democracies" do provide some - but hard to say how many other they deny. if one would compare - perhaps "limits" would be more than actual rights and liberties.

Democracy Is Not Freedom

“…man is not free unless government is limited. There's a clear cause and effect here that is as neat and predictable as a law of physics: As government expands, liberty contracts.” ~ Ronald Reagan

so, what's the point to argue who's more democratic? communists made revolution to "give power to masses" - but ended up with state government domination of politics. same goes for capitalists - government would always dominate all the processes in country. so, be it this political system or that - there is no actual and real freedom for ordinary simple people - be it America or Thailand or N. Korea... the only difference - in amount of that control by government.

George Orwell wrote about “meaningless words” that are endlessly repeated in the political arena.* Words like “freedom,” “democracy,” and “justice,” Orwell explained, have been abused so long that their original meanings have been eviscerated.

In Orwell’s view, political words were “Often used in a consciously dishonest way.” Without precise meanings behind words, politicians and elites can obscure reality and condition people to reflexively associate certain words with positive or negative perceptions. In other words, unpleasant facts can be hidden behind purposely meaningless language. As a result, Americans have been conditioned to accept the word “democracy” as a synonym for freedom, and thus to believe that democracy is unquestionably good....

long article there....

...democracy is not freedom. Democracy is simply majoritarianism, which is inherently incompatible with real freedom....

....Simply put, freedom is the absence of government coercion... all government action is inherently coercive. If nothing else, government action requires taxes. If taxes were freely paid, they wouldn't be called taxes, they'd be called donations. If we intend to use the word freedom in an honest way, we should have the simple integrity to give it real meaning: Freedom is living without government coercion. So when a politician talks about freedom for this group or that, ask yourself whether he is advocating more government action or less.

... government claims on the lives and property of those who are expected to provide housing, medical care, food, etc. for others are coercive – and thus incompatible with freedom.

...how many Americans know that the word “democracy” is found neither in the Constitution nor the Declaration of Independence...

If we hope to remain free, we must cut through the fog and attach concrete meanings to the words politicians use to deceive us....

We must resist any use of the word “freedom” to describe state action....

Every politician on earth claims to support freedom. The problem is so few of them understand the simple meaning of the word.

"If men use their liberty in such a way as to surrender their liberty, are they thereafter any the less slaves? If people by a plebiscite elect a man despot over them, do they remain free because the despotism was of their own making?" Herbert Spencer (1884)

[speleo]

All this pontificating from foreigners as to whether Taksin is a dictator or the best thing to ever happen to Thailand is just a lot of BS. Nothing will change because of a post to a forum.

It is their country and they can &lt;deleted&gt; it up if they want to. I doubt if the opinions of outsiders are of any interest to the Thais and are probably not welcome.

[paulfr]

aaaaaa

Your quotations are excellent !! Thank you.

I think LOS is struggling with its transition from a backward farming country to a modern industrial society. This is no easy process.

But Thailand is doing it much better than many other countries in similar stages of change. Young are becoming educated in larger numbers and farm families are changing as their children bring the money from better jobs back home.

As long as Kuhn Taksin does not abuse his power and the press is not supressed, LOS will do fine. All in due time.

This is a wonderful country and I for one hope the process continues smoothly with this next generation.

[Sphere]

Thailand is a constitutional monarchy - in that lies its inherent strength. Rest assured.

Actually, I hate to think what would happen if it were solely in the control of politicians with absolute majority in parliament.

[chaladmak]

All this pontificating from foreigners as to whether Taksin is a dictator or the best thing to ever happen to Thailand is just a lot of BS. Nothing will change because of a post to a forum.

It is their country and they can &lt;deleted&gt; it up if they want to.  I doubt if the opinions of outsiders are of any interest to the Thais and are probably not welcome.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ha! I agree! what's the point to waste time argue good or bad is Thaksin - or Bush, or Blair or anyone else? politics are always dirty....

[aaaaaa]

The Day I use George W as a barometer for my views on foreign policy is the day I chuck it all in and reach for the bleach and strong rope, I would suggest that any broad minded person who actually takes the time to experience and learn about a foriegn country do the same if they ever find themselves looking for guidance from that war mongering, self obsessed moron, Thanks aaaaa but choose your mentors with a little more care and actual thought next time

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sorry - that time (when it was posted) I'd overlooked your concerned comment on my comment on cv's comment.... or perhaps didn't bother to answer it? anyway - I do bother now.

thanks a lot for your kind advice ! although it made me feel somewhat... uncomfortable perhaps? if not mocked / ridiculed.... coz it implies, at least indirectly and in very smart long around way that ..... I do use B. as barometr - and therefore I'm not broad minded..... and then even you almost directly assumed that - "your mentors" ! and even - nicely and tenderly put me down by impying that I didn't think about what I was talking about..... that was very nice and kind of you ! so ... patronising and educating.....

let me tell you something though - I think a REALY broad minded person would first of all read carefully the post b4 commenting on it - it would be obvious that I said those thing in rather sarcastic way, not at all in the sense that I agree with/ support his opinions and/or authority. but: mentor ! huh? that's realy very broad minded of you ! and then especially broad minded part - giving instructions or directives what I should do and how and why (againg - based on concocted conclusions which are based on trivial lack of attention or may be on intentional ignorance of real meaning of some point). thanks a lot, but I'd rather decide myself WHAT IS real thought and what and how I'm gonna to say it next time. definetely won't accept your mentorship in this matter - sorry ! otherwise I'll become self-obsessed and "broad minded" too (oops, did I say it aloud?)

AND broad minded person would obstain from 1) "smart-ass" mocking of anyone for the sake of silly and obvious reason of improving one's image on expance of others and 2)fallacy of argument called "argumentum ad homenum" (attempt to undermine or defeat opponents point by making personal attack instead of adressing the point itself - sort of logic like "you are bla bla bla - therefore automatically your point is meaningless") EVEN IF the point was realy made as you see it - and especially if it wasn't made at all as in this case. that is realy childish --->

AND broad minded person won't jump on each and every opportunity to do such things (name calling, etc.) in such a way as if point or argument is directed to him personally while they are not, even though some or many / most points he comments on hardly even distantly relate to him personally. that is also childish - sort of self-exposure of at least some vulnerability if not inferiority complex / defensiveness and of desire to show off and impress someone.... fuss for nothing ....

not to mention other minor things like - use of exaggerations / overstatements and superlatives and expletives and other extreme words indicates inflamed false ego - if not the same self-obsession you've mentioned.

what else? yeah, suggestions.... sure - everybody has the "freedom of speech" or right to express his/ her opinion (which according to some are synonymous) here in this Forum as long as speech / opinion complies with its Rules; and then pershaps to continue this logic - to give suggestions. BUT it is childish (oops, again !) to give suggestions when they are not asked for. I didn't even talk to you that time or commented to your post or mention you at all - what to say asking you what would you do and why and how and which barometr you'd use - coz I'm simply not interested. tell me honestly - did I, or may be I forgoteen something ? BUT I remember clearly for sure that I never asked: "toast, pls give me suggestion".... your outburst wasn't very prudent or circumspect / well intentional as you've tried to make some (whom, I wonder?) to believe.

actually even to think of himself as being in position to give any suggestions at all and expecting these suggestion being taken seriously or else automatically undermines one's position ! humility is much better way to establish oneself. come now, what makes you think that you are THE ONE - "Giver of suggestions"? especially in such a fallacious / deceptive way / tone : "any broad minded person" (as if those who don't take the "suggestion" - automatically fall into category narrow minded) ; labling (I'm bored to repeat all the words you've used for him) and influencing reader's /listener's opinion by artifical link/ logic (broad minded <--> moron; taking time to learn <---> self obsessed; etc) as if they accept / believe in those lables they'll be broad minded. BTW - Bush isn't that much moron, trust me. he is just doing his job and follows agenda he was appoited/ chosen/ elected / (allowed?) to with taking of his office. I mean, common pls - do you sincerely believe that those ppl who realy pushed him forward for his office would let a real moron take it? so, your insulting him in such a way doesn't give you much credit as broad minded person, seriously! you rather undermine your very position as "Giver of Suggestions" by saying something which is obviously not true - especially if you do this not in his presence. sorry, but this is rather cowardice and uncrupulous - and hardly can be "freedom of speech" !

so, I'd humbly requet that you kindly refrain from further challengase to me or any kind of confrontation; if it was simply between two of us (although I still wonder what could possibly cause such an issue at all since I never tried directly or inderictly to undermine you in any way) - I could simply ignore you and avoid. but it is a public Forum - many people may not pay attention to or be able to follow what's going on and is real reason of particular remarks and may realy believe some or all of what you say - in this case about me. in other words - I don't realy care about what you particularly think about me, but I do care however what other people might think. and I feel establishing oneself by "steping on the heads of others" isn't decent way. so please kindly don't step on my head anymore simply for ulterior motive to show off - because I do mind that. I promise you I won't interfer into your similar confrontations with others or try to expose you. I know I can't make you change entirely - to stop doing this to anyone anymore, but at least I'd like you do this to me. may be others don't mind such steping on the head, but I do. I'll mind my business, although not necessarily I'll like it when you do similar things to others. but here I'm seriously and sincerely (not sarcastically and mockingly) appeal to your good sense and ask you to change this habit and style of yours at least towards me.

best regards....

[Thaiboxer]

Toxin is doing the same things Hitler did...putting his own corrupt staff (family members, rich friends, etc) in high positions, eliminating any chance for other political parties/individuals to take legal action against him, and also stamping out people who criticize him. As another poster mentioned, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. This is what sparked the French Revolution in 1789 which resulted in lots of "high society" members getting their heads chopped off. I hope that wouldn't happen here but with the way Thai Rak Thai is running things, who knows?

[Ajarn]

Thailand is a constitutional monarchy - in that lies its inherent strength. Rest assured.

Actually, I hate to think what would happen if it were solely in the control of politicians with absolute majority in parliament.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Huh? It already is, sir. Thaksin can theoretically change the constitution if he wants, potentially changing even the 'Constitutional Monarchy'....

Therein, in my opinion, lies the crux of the problem... And now Thaksin is asking for even more secrecy and single-handed power....

Only one force can force change, and that is the People's Force. But, as we've seen in the recent past, demonstrations of People Force normally result in even more oppression, and often violence.

I hope HM The King, in all his great wisdom, makes a strong public stand here in setting limits for Thaksin. I feel it's time for the people to get some needed clarity...

[pjallittle]

Thailand is not a democracy.  There is no recognized country that is a democracy, period.

Whether it is a dictatorship is still not decided.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a first consideration, see the definition of the word democracy

de·moc·ra·cy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-mkr-s)

n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies

Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.

A political or social unit that has such a government.

The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.

Majority rule.

The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

There is no country that has ever been established that can meet all of these definitions all of the time.

It would be fair to say that Thailand is a Democracy in the sense that people do have the right to vote, whether they vote in someone who will exercise all of the principles of a constitutional democracy which will please everyone is rather of an academic exercise.

Thailand presently has an authoritarian in charge, that does not mean he is a dictator. A true dictatorial regime cannot be voted out, there's the difference. You may not like the idea that he seems to pay more attention to business interests and not enough to the average person, this is a common complaint in most so called democracies and is usually the basic difference between political parties.

Big business provides employment, Unions monitor big businesses and the little guy either works for them or becomes self employed. The successful hope to grow their businesses and become big businesses and in a demopcratic atmosphere they have the right to do just that.

It's all really quite simple, especially if you can afford it

[Thaiboxer]

The King will sign new laws and participate in ceremonies, but the Royal Family has not ruled Thailand for over 70 years. The King has a powerful influence on a lot of people due to His knowledge and desire to help the country, however as far as legal/political power goes, there is little He can do. As one poster mentioned, the main force than can change things politically is the force of the people. If enough people knew half of what the King knows, they wouldn't have allowed Toxin and his corrupt empire to exist in the first place. The King was educated in the West and has the advantage of seeing things from both viewpoints...we can only hope enough people listen to Him and other influential figures who actually care about the country and not about turning hugh profits.

[Ajarn]

however as far as legal/political power goes, there is little He can do.

He has many real powers, including emergency laws, but he must then get back-up from the parliment... For example, after Typhoon Gay the King made an emergency declaration banning logging in the Kingdom, which still stands... He had to go to Parliment to get their okay shortly afterward. He also appointed Anand Panyarachun the first time around...with Parliment's support...

I'm certainly no expert in this area, but the King does have some real powers as long as the Parliment backs him. I'm not in any way suggesting that's not the case now, but Thailand seems very politically unstable right now, so who can tell with any certainty what will occur?

That's why I hope there will be some straight talk from the King. He's the only man I'd believe in such a situation