Start A Labor Claim Fro Wages And/or Severance

[faranggaeng]

I work for a Thai company.

The company's gross mismanagement has played out predictably. They took on huge bank debt to start ambitious projects.

They made ridiculous projections to lure investors. Then they used the borrowed money to start more ill-advised projects.

The economic downturn has only hastened the demise. We're going down fast. Spectacular collapse is inescapable.

Now the employees are not getting paid. And there's very little money coming in.

Assume our cases are simple. We haven't been fired, we just didn't get paid. Some one month, some two or three months. Some are owed commissions and bonuses. We still come to work, but we're not sure if we will ever get paid. We may join together for a lawsuit, but most just want to get the back pay and walk away...

Question: Does non-payment constitute 'termination' under the Thai law, and at what point?

Question: Can we just go to the Labor Office to start the process? Where do we go? Is it the Grasung Langan Labor Office where we got the work permits? Where exactly do we go to start the process where they make the phone call?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[Indo-Siam]

I am not familiar with "Grasung Langan", but if you are located in Bangkok, you can go to the legal assistance office outside the labor court building (near Hualomphong MRT/Railway stations - walking distance), and a free government attorney will help you prepare a court summons , to be delivered to your employer. Bring with you your personal ID documents, plus accurate documents identifying the employing company - and also any papers that you may have that document your salary rate (including bank account record, employment offer letters, personal income tax return PND.90).

If a whole group of employees will go at one time to file a joint claim, you need to make an appointment, and they will ask the group to appoint a couple of spokesmen to speak for the group in court.

The bad news - the court summons will be for a court date about eight weeks in the future.

The good news - The court is VERY employee-friendly, and any legitimate claim will likely be upheld.

In addition to normal notification and severance pay, you and fellow employees will probably be able to claim an additional one month's salary for"unfair dismissal" - that will be decided by the no=-cost legal assistance officer who helps prepare the summons.

Above is as much as I will outline at no charge. My company is presently helping employees of one 50-employee company to prosecute their claims against a subsidiary of a quite large Thai parent company. We can do the same for others - we have a Thai attorney and a labor court coordinator on staff who are both experienced with recent procedures.

If you do want professional help (for a fee), just Google my name and company - and you will find my e-mail address.

Good luck.

Steve Sykes

Indo-Siam Group

[Soutpeel]

I work for a Thai company.

The company's gross mismanagement has played out predictably. They took on huge bank debt to start ambitious projects.

They made ridiculous projections to lure investors. Then they used the borrowed money to start more ill-advised projects.

The economic downturn has only hastened the demise. We're going down fast. Spectacular collapse is inescapable.

Now the employees are not getting paid. And there's very little money coming in.

Assume our cases are simple. We haven't been fired, we just didn't get paid. Some one month, some two or three months. Some are owed commissions and bonuses. We still come to work, but we're not sure if we will ever get paid. We may join together for a lawsuit, but most just want to get the back pay and walk away...

Question: Does non-payment constitute 'termination' under the Thai law, and at what point?

Question: Can we just go to the Labor Office to start the process? Where do we go? Is it the Grasung Langan Labor Office where we got the work permits? Where exactly do we go to start the process where they make the phone call?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

What ever you do...do not walk away from this, as the the arguement from the company will be you "resigned" and then it will be difficult to claim against the company. You would be better persuing this a group, a Thai representative speaking for you at the labour office would be good, if possible and raise a complaint there.

[CDB]

Hi there,

I'm not a lawyer but have been in Labor Court many times, both as a plaintiff and as a defendant.

The law is very heavily weighted in your favor, although as the other poster mentioned, the wheels of justice grind slowly. As an employee, you are entitled to free legal representation, but if you don't speak and read Thai, it's certainly best to hire an English speaking lawyer.

If your company pays you even one day late, they are exposing themselves to a lot of legal consequences. The courts can even seize the assets of the company and sell them to pay your late salaries. If you have a valid claim for dismissal (and unless you are missing paperwork almost any claim will be valid), the company will be forced to put several months of pay into an escrow account fairly quickly, so they lose the cash for as long as case drags on.

Also, the company will have to spend time and effort and expense defending the claims. And even if the company has strong counterclaims against you, about the best result the company can hope for, is for a "compromise" where they pay you a smaller amount. At every stage, the system favors the employee and not the employer, so this will encourage the company to settle with you quickly.

Why might such action fail?

* If your company is actually a series of related companies, you might find that any assets in your workplace are owned by a different company and that people who appear to own your company have set up a shell with nominee directors that they can allow to be seized.

* If you allow yourself to be intimidated. Filing countersuits and making threats is cheap and easy to do.

* If you are planning to leave Thailand and/or cannot find another job, the Thai company might try to wait you out.

Even if your Employer has debts, the owed salaries to you will be prioritized.

If your company has serious cashflow problems, I would suggest you do not delay in filing action in the courts. The longer you delay, the more time the company has to move its assets.

If the company has any chance of survival and/or if it has assets you can go after, normally the sensible reaction of the company's directors would be to start paying you, negotiating with you for staged payments, and a realization that the balance of power has changed and they need to appease you.

Unfortunately, you might also get the other reaction, which to try to intimidate you.

I am amazed at how low-paid Thai workers and farangs just roll over when they get into this situation, believing they can't fight it. OTOH, educated and higher paid Thai managers know only too well that they can march down to the Labor court at the slightest infraction and bring a whole world of trouble top the company...

[HJK]

I am not familiar with "Grasung Langan", but if you are located in Bangkok, you can go to the legal assistance office outside the labor court building (near Hualomphong MRT/Railway stations - walking distance), and a free government attorney will help you prepare a court summons , to be delivered to your employer. Bring with you your personal ID documents, plus accurate documents identifying the employing company - and also any papers that you may have that document your salary rate (including bank account record, employment offer letters, personal income tax return PND.90).

If a whole group of employees will go at one time to file a joint claim, you need to make an appointment, and they will ask the group to appoint a couple of spokesmen to speak for the group in court.

The bad news - the court summons will be for a court date about eight weeks in the future.

The good news - The court is VERY employee-friendly, and any legitimate claim will likely be upheld.

In addition to normal notification and severance pay, you and fellow employees will probably be able to claim an additional one month's salary for"unfair dismissal" - that will be decided by the no=-cost legal assistance officer who helps prepare the summons.

Above is as much as I will outline at no charge. My company is presently helping employees of one 50-employee company to prosecute their claims against a subsidiary of a quite large Thai parent company. We can do the same for others - we have a Thai attorney and a labor court coordinator on staff who are both experienced with recent procedures.

If you do want professional help (for a fee), just Google my name and company - and you will find my e-mail address.

Good luck.

Steve Sykes

Indo-Siam Group

Only 1 months additional salary claim for unfair dismissal?? My lawyer tells me that for unfair/unlawful dismissal you can do a lot better than 1 months additional salary in damages and I have read cases of people getting 12 and 18 months salary in damages compensation on top of any severeance payments due. My lawyer is claiming at ;least a couple of years for unfair dismissal in my case and seems quite confident of winning a decent settlement. I know of another case coming up soon where the individual is claiming more than 3 years salary as damages for unfair dismissal.

In this particular case it sounds like the Thai company would struggle to pay this kind of penalty and they havent actually dismissed anyone yet.

I wonder why the above case would only merit 1 months additional damages whereas others may merit much larger damage payments.

[pj123]

I am not familiar with "Grasung Langan", but if you are located in Bangkok, you can go to the legal assistance office outside the labor court building (near Hualomphong MRT/Railway stations - walking distance), and a free government attorney will help you prepare a court summons , to be delivered to your employer. Bring with you your personal ID documents, plus accurate documents identifying the employing company - and also any papers that you may have that document your salary rate (including bank account record, employment offer letters, personal income tax return PND.90)

Useful advice. You also need to speak Thai or bring with you someone who does to translate.