Putting Land Deeds In Trust For Your Kids

[MJP]

Need help, badly.

Wife of 7 years now quite evil.

We have land and houses etc. I don't want any of it ending up in her boyfriend's crack pipe thanks. I need to put the land in trust for daughter now aged 5. Out of harms way.

Any ideas?

Thanks

[MJo]

Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run ,run,

Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run ,run,

You can always go and have some fun,

Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run ,run!

Or is this advice a bit late now ?

Seriously, i assume your wife holds the titles in her name ? If that's the case there is nothing much you could do without your wife's consent.

[MJP]

Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run ,run,

Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run ,run,

You can always go and have some fun,

Run rabbit, run rabbit, run, run ,run!

Or is this advice a bit late now ?

Seriously, i assume your wife holds the titles in her name ? If that's the case there is nothing much you could do without your wife's consent.

Advice 7 years too late.

But let's make others aware of the pitfall, eh.

Family pressure is about all I've got, thankfully. Just need any legals on the forum to give me a quick run down on trust options.

[MJo]

Just by transferring the titles to your kid's name i believe she is not going to be able to sell them without court decision that it is for the good of the child.

Maybe some pro will give you more on trusts. Hope it works out for you.

[MJP]

Just by transferring the titles to your kid's name i believe she is not going to be able to sell them without court decision that it is for the good of the child.

Maybe some pro will give you more on trusts. Hope it works out for you.

Cheers MJo.

I'm considering going the divorce route, but the conditions are that the land etc is held in trust for the little one, whilst I continue to live at the house supporting financially and as a parent.

Thankfully, I have the FULL support of mother and sisters, who are appalled at the behaviour. Much lost face for those guys up here.

Just want to keep things stable and secure.

Thanks for your help mate.

Edited June 3, 2009 by MJP

[Maestro]

...We have land and houses etc...

You, the foreigner, does not have any land in Thailand. The land is owned by the Thai national whose name is on the title deed. The owner is free to do with it what she likes unless you have a lease on it or a usufruct, in which case you have the right to use the land for the duration of the lease or usufruct.

--

Maestro

[MJP]

...We have land and houses etc...

You, the foreigner, does not have any land in Thailand. The land is owned by the Thai national whose name is on the title deed. The owner is free to do with it what she likes unless you have a lease on it or a usufruct, in which case you have the right to use the land for the duration of the lease or usufruct.

--

Maestro

Thankfully I made sure the lawyers drew up the 30+30 year lease each plot. Signed prior to title transfer from the vendor.

I'll be 93 when they expire, so no probs there.

It's the freehold transfer to a trust is the info I need.

Cheers

[Maestro]

I remember reading on ThaiVisa that Thai law does not know trusts and if one were set up it would not hold up in court. Hopefully, a lawyer will come along and give details.

--

Maestro

[MJP]

I remember reading on ThaiVisa that Thai law does not know trusts and if one were set up it would not hold up in court. Hopefully, a lawyer will come along and give details.

--

Maestro

Cheers. I'm sure there must be some sort of vehicle for this.

I will call an old Thai barrister friend who's Kings Counsel, get Wit to sort it out.

[MJP]

Maestro,

Bang on me old mate,

"Trusts created whether directly or indirectly by will or any juristic act producing effect during lifetime or after death shall have no effect whatever"

The solution for foreign fathers is to put the ownership of properties under the name of their children. "My child is just only one month, how can I put the ownership of land under his name""

Can a juvenile own a property" The answer is "Yes" because there is no restriction even your child has a foreign name or double nationality.

If you put the ownership of property under the name of your child, you or your Thai wife cannot dispose of that land without the order of the Family Court in Chonburi. It means that your Thai wife cannot go to the Family Court alone without you to get the judicial order to sell the property.

In case that you have not registered marriage with your common law Thai wife, you may register the legitimacy of your child under 6 years old with the Family Court in Chonburi. If your child is over 6 years old, you just go to the District Office with your Thai common law wife.

[MJP]

Quick update.

All's well that ends well.

The wife has seen sense. All freehold's to be transferred to our daughters name. I renew all leases in my name. I live here and look after things whilst she sorts head out. Doors always open to her, there's always food in the kitchen etc, we live together as friends.

I keep my garden!

[chiangmaibruce]

That's a good outcome. Now move quickly to get all the papers drawn up and signed before she changes her mind/gets any ideas. If that's going to take a while then maybe get her to sign a power of attorney so you can sign the papers on her behalf once they are prepared.

Because trust or no trust, lease or no lease, etc, without her consent as sole owner I don't see how you can do anything with the land titles. Just be aware that there are some issues about putting property in a minor's name that may or may not present a problem for you. There are several prior threads on this topic in Thaivisa

[OZEMADE]

Maestro,

Bang on me old mate,

"Trusts created whether directly or indirectly by will or any juristic act producing effect during lifetime or after death shall have no effect whatever"

The solution for foreign fathers is to put the ownership of properties under the name of their children. "My child is just only one month, how can I put the ownership of land under his name""

Can a juvenile own a property" The answer is "Yes" because there is no restriction even your child has a foreign name or double nationality.

If you put the ownership of property under the name of your child, you or your Thai wife cannot dispose of that land without the order of the Family Court in Chonburi. It means that your Thai wife cannot go to the Family Court alone without you to get the judicial order to sell the property.

In case that you have not registered marriage with your common law Thai wife, you may register the legitimacy of your child under 6 years old with the Family Court in Chonburi. If your child is over 6 years old, you just go to the District Office with your Thai common law wife.

Mu Thai father in law has just been given a heap of land in Lop Buri and wanted to have the Chanote put in his daughters name in case of his death, as he is ill with sugar diabetes. He was told by the land office, he could not as she was only 15 yoa and she had to be 18 yoa.

[MJP]

Maestro,

Bang on me old mate,

"Trusts created whether directly or indirectly by will or any juristic act producing effect during lifetime or after death shall have no effect whatever"

The solution for foreign fathers is to put the ownership of properties under the name of their children. "My child is just only one month, how can I put the ownership of land under his name""

Can a juvenile own a property" The answer is "Yes" because there is no restriction even your child has a foreign name or double nationality.

If you put the ownership of property under the name of your child, you or your Thai wife cannot dispose of that land without the order of the Family Court in Chonburi. It means that your Thai wife cannot go to the Family Court alone without you to get the judicial order to sell the property.

In case that you have not registered marriage with your common law Thai wife, you may register the legitimacy of your child under 6 years old with the Family Court in Chonburi. If your child is over 6 years old, you just go to the District Office with your Thai common law wife.

Mu Thai father in law has just been given a heap of land in Lop Buri and wanted to have the Chanote put in his daughters name in case of his death, as he is ill with sugar diabetes. He was told by the land office, he could not as she was only 15 yoa and she had to be 18 yoa.

I'll find out next week. Got all the deeds together, off to a good lawyer. Siam Legal say yes it's legal, no problem. Often the person behind the desk at the land office knows little. We'll see.

Cheers.

[lannarebirth]

Maestro,

Bang on me old mate,

"Trusts created whether directly or indirectly by will or any juristic act producing effect during lifetime or after death shall have no effect whatever"

The solution for foreign fathers is to put the ownership of properties under the name of their children. "My child is just only one month, how can I put the ownership of land under his name""

Can a juvenile own a property" The answer is "Yes" because there is no restriction even your child has a foreign name or double nationality.

If you put the ownership of property under the name of your child, you or your Thai wife cannot dispose of that land without the order of the Family Court in Chonburi. It means that your Thai wife cannot go to the Family Court alone without you to get the judicial order to sell the property.

In case that you have not registered marriage with your common law Thai wife, you may register the legitimacy of your child under 6 years old with the Family Court in Chonburi. If your child is over 6 years old, you just go to the District Office with your Thai common law wife.

Mu Thai father in law has just been given a heap of land in Lop Buri and wanted to have the Chanote put in his daughters name in case of his death, as he is ill with sugar diabetes. He was told by the land office, he could not as she was only 15 yoa and she had to be 18 yoa.

I'll find out next week. Got all the deeds together, off to a good lawyer. Siam Legal say yes it's legal, no problem. Often the person behind the desk at the land office knows little. We'll see.

Cheers.

In the stack of papers to sign, slip a usufruct in as well. Lease could become voidable and extensions are not valid here beyond original 30 years. After you have a usufruct, you can give a lease to yourself if you choose, not that it would be needed. No need to pay taxes on lease either.

[MJo]

Quick update.

All's well that ends well.

The wife has seen sense. All freehold's to be transferred to our daughters name. I renew all leases in my name. I live here and look after things whilst she sorts head out. Doors always open to her, there's always food in the kitchen etc, we live together as friends.

I keep my garden!

Well that is good news. And thanks for the legal clarification, it confirmed what i have heard earlier.

I'm considering putting property to my kid name as well so this is valuable. Just to leave something behind for her, so it is to protect the assets from the wife and from myself

[MJP]

Quick update.

All's well that ends well.

The wife has seen sense. All freehold's to be transferred to our daughters name. I renew all leases in my name. I live here and look after things whilst she sorts head out. Doors always open to her, there's always food in the kitchen etc, we live together as friends.

I keep my garden!

Well that is good news. And thanks for the legal clarification, it confirmed what i have heard earlier.

I'm considering putting property to my kid name as well so this is valuable. Just to leave something behind for her, so it is to protect the assets from the wife and from myself

Hello MJo.

I had a email tonight from a colleague who's divorced. She said, "Oh well, never mind, it always happens. In the end it's all for the kids anyway."

That's the point. Who cares so long as it's not lost for the kids?

I'll let you know what happens. Seems land offices aren't keen but the says the opposite.

[Carib]

Quick update.

All's well that ends well.

The wife has seen sense. All freehold's to be transferred to our daughters name. I renew all leases in my name. I live here and look after things whilst she sorts head out. Doors always open to her, there's always food in the kitchen etc, we live together as friends.

I keep my garden!

Good news here, hope you stay friends !

[thirdeyedmt]

Need help, badly.

Wife of 7 years now quite evil.

We have land and houses etc. I don't want any of it ending up in her boyfriend's crack pipe thanks. I need to put the land in trust for daughter now aged 5. Out of harms way.

Any ideas?

Thanks

PM me for my office number if you want legal advice

[chiangmaibruce]

Seems land offices aren't keen but the says the opposite.

The Thai guy mentioned in an earlier post who was told he could not transfer land to his daughter until she was 18, was given incorrect information. Refer Thai Civil and Commercial Code 1577 (and elsewhere)

What I have previously heard was that some Land Dept offices have refused such transfers where the minor was too young to sign or comprehend the transaction, and I think they may have cause to exercise some discretion there. Others however are happy to process the transaction provided all the paperwork is in order.

[Datsun240Z]

Keep up the good things MJP. It's really sad after 7 years the wife does things like that. Always believe in yourself.

[Arkady]

Two questions:

1) What happens to a long lease or usufruct in this case. Can the old lease or usufruct agreement to the father be confirmed? Or would the Land Dept view this as a conflict of interests? I am also thinking of the theoretical case that the child grows up and wants to evict his father. Would a court accept that the lease or usufruct agreement was forced on him by a parent when he was a minor for a nil or neglible consideration and should therefore be voided?

2) Can the property be mortgaged? Would this also require a court order and consent of both parents? If there is no long lease or usufruct on the property, there is also the risk that the wife would get the child to mortgage it and make off with the loan.

[chiangmaibruce]

1) <snip>Would a court accept that the lease or usufruct agreement was forced on him by a parent when he was a minor for a nil or neglible consideration and should therefore be voided?

2) Can the property be mortgaged? Would this also require a court order and consent of both parents? If there is no long lease or usufruct on the property, there is also the risk that the wife would get the child to mortgage it and make off with the loan.

1. Don't know the answer to this one... the thought has occurred to me too ... if anyone knows of any precedents here, I would love to hear about it

2. Check out Civil and Commercial Code 1574 & 1575 in particular ... regarding restrictions/controls on guardians ... don't think Mrs can (legally) mortgage it without court approval ... but would the loan sharks know that or care? So could still get a bit messy

Edited June 12, 2009 by chiangmaibruce

[donx]

1) <snip>Would a court accept that the lease or usufruct agreement was forced on him by a parent when he was a minor for a nil or neglible consideration and should therefore be voided?

2) Can the property be mortgaged? Would this also require a court order and consent of both parents? If there is no long lease or usufruct on the property, there is also the risk that the wife would get the child to mortgage it and make off with the loan.

1. Don't know the answer to this one... the thought has occurred to me too ... if anyone knows of any precedents here, I would love to hear about it

2. Check out Civil and Commercial Code 1574 & 1575 in particular ... regarding restrictions/controls on guardians ... don't think Mrs can (legally) mortgage it without court approval ... but would the loan sharks know that or care? So could still get a bit messy

I would assume that the usufruct or lease (for the OP's situation) should be established between he and his wife prior to a transfer of the title into name of a child. This would then be treated the same as any land with such an encumberance on it. The child would be obligated to honor the usufruct or lease the same way that someone that inherits land with a usufruct or lease established on it must honor it. I'm no expert so correct me if I'm wrong.

[Kf6vci]

Sorry, I cannot asnwer your questions. But it might help to hear what worked for me in CA.

I had put our home in joint tenants. She never paid one dollar.

The divorce was dragging on.

What brought it all to a conclusion was a cash settlement. She signed divorce papers and I got the house back.

That boyfriend is likely to haunt her for money. A few hundred thousand might tip the scales.

Try that after starving her financially for a few days.

Have a Thai professional do the paperwork and the negotiations.

There might be alternatives to a trust. Try the courts to sort out who is legal guardian of the child etc.

All the best!

Chris