How Long Before We All Get Kicked Out?

[bravingbangkok]

As I said before crossbones I totally agree with the facts you have given and understand where you and a lot of people are coming from with relation to this subject, my stance is that I do not feel threatened, never have and never will.

I think all this talk is just patriotic bullshit which is aimed at trying to bring the country together, I very much doubt the guy behind this farang buying land for wife thing is directly pointing the finger at the average Joe in Issan but rather trying to build some sort of social unity again after Thaksin sold off various Thai assets to Singapore.

This is all it is, patriotic rhetoric.

Edited June 8, 2009 by bravingbangkok

[samran]

In their eyes your daughter is half Thai (the good half)!

wrong.

I'm "half" Thai. Quotation marks becase my grandfather was born in Shanghai, by my Grandmother is of burmese decent. My fathers side, all Irish.

They are "1/4" Thai. But you couldn't tell they had an asian gene between them. Most people reckon their Thai grandmother is their nanny.

You are half Thai... but you still feel like an expat and hang out on expat forum? Is that because you dont feel accepted here as a Thai then? Sorry if I am jumping to conclusions...

Let me put it another way.... when did some government policy make us feel WELCOME here, or when did they do something to make it EASIER for us to come here (no need to mention temporarily giving free tourist visas or waiving enterance fee to national parks)

interesting question. But yes, I feel very welcome here. Never had any agro from government officials, most are accomadating and helpful. Worked for the Thai government for three years. Do I feel Thai, well, yes, I can slip into Thai mode very easily, and then shift gears back into Australian mode. When it suits...

why do I spend my time here? maybe to help dispel myths...most people don't have a clue what they are talking about, can not speak or read Thai, don't know their rights, couldn't read a piece of legislation to save themselves. And they don't know how rules are made here. So they tend to be come jaded and cynical and paranoid. I would too if I was living in a world where I didn't have a clue what was going on.

Can more be done immigration wise for people like you, yes? Especially if you have family.

when did they make it easier to come here? Check out an old lonley planet circa mid 90's. No such thing as a 30 day stamp at the airport. Visa's were in advance.

They've made it easier for wives to return to Thailand, marry foreginers without having their Thai nationality stripped away (1992), they've returned the right for thai wives to own land (1999).

BTW: I doubt the government can confiscate the property. Worse they could do is reverse the transaction. There is a caveat to your paranoia though, the government officer who shot his mouth off wasn't fully quoted. Sign the form which states that house isn't common marriage property, and they can't do a dot about it.

Edited June 8, 2009 by samran

[bravingbangkok]

In their eyes your daughter is half Thai (the good half)!

wrong.

I'm "half" Thai. Quotation marks becase my grandfather was born in Shanghai, by my Grandmother is of burmese decent. My fathers side, all Irish.

They are "1/4" Thai. But you couldn't tell they had an asian gene between them. Most people reckon their Thai grandmother is their nanny.

You are half Thai... but you still feel like an expat and hang out on expat forum? Is that because you dont feel accepted here as a Thai then? Sorry if I am jumping to conclusions...

Let me put it another way.... when did some government policy make us feel WELCOME here, or when did they do something to make it EASIER for us to come here (no need to mention temporarily giving free tourist visas or waiving enterance fee to national parks)

interesting question. But yes, I feel very welcome here. Never had any agro from government officials, most are accomadating and helpful. Worked for the Thai government for three years.

why do I spend my time here? maybe to help dispel myths...most people don't have a clue what they are talking about, can not speak or read Thai, don't know their rights, couldn't read a piece of legislation to save themselves. And they don't know how rules are made here. So they tend to be come jaded and cynical and paranoid. I would too if I was living in a world where I didn't have a clue what was going on.

Can more be done immigration wise for people like you, yes? Especially if you have family.

BTW: I doubt the government can confiscate the property. Worse they could do is reverse the transaction. There is a caveat to your paranoia though, the government officer who shot his mouth off wasn't fully quoted. Sign the form which states that house isn't common marriage property, and they can't do a dot about it.

Dude I so totally agree, I am myself thinking of getting some of my Thai/Farang friends who have grown up here, st Johns, Patana etc etc schools on here just to tell them how ridiculous all of this scarmongering is.

[bravingbangkok]

The PM went to Eton for Christ sake, The princes two sons went to Harrow how pro western do you want ?????????

[MJo]

Well if you have bought your wife a house here, you NOW currently stand in a position where the government might take ownership of it because they could claim she is a nominee for you to own a property. Whether they will do that or not, I don't know - it might just be for people who make significant investments and generally taking the p*ss but the fact that they CAN now do just this should make alarm bells start to ring. You might upset a "respectable" official and suddenly you lose your families assets here. You might try to hob-nob with senior police and government people to get a degree of protection, or you might get a "good job" doing something "useful for the culture" but there's a good chance this will back-fire in your face at some point.

Now if you own a condo, how do you know they wont suddenly change the law and confiscate that from you? I wouldn't feel secure owning a condo right now! If you do own a property don't try renting it out... that could be seen as working here, happened to a mate of mine he didn't get deported as he has the opportunity to pay a "fine". It just takes some big-wig to dream up another "crackdown" and suddenly we lose our condos making condo land-owners suddenly very wealthy.

If you bought an Elite card... you might soon find that is useless, you wont be able to buy land as was "suggested" when they were first sold and you might find you are no longer able to use it for long-stay - I notice the government are now making an issue of the 5 year visas they promised (sold) with the Elite card. Scammed by the government... do they despise the "Elite" ones amongst the most? As far as I can tell the officials are jealous of most of us for having come from countries where we get a better chance than them, whether we are rich and successful, poor and divorced, or retired and drunk at least we started off with a better chance than them (maybe).

You might have married your wife X number of years ago,then the laws change and suddenly you might be in a position where you dont have enough cash in the bank to get the marriage visa and might have to leave your wife and abandon your kids. Who knows what the future holds. All this is done with no notice or warning whatsoever. Im not rich ive got some investment in property and would find it hard to come up with a million baht cash in bank at the drop of a hat.

There are countless examples where the authorities suddenly throw a spanner in the works and try to keep us jumping through hoops, much to their amusement. I admit there are some foreigners here who are pretty bad, and there are good ones, and there are ones who came here for the love or the culture and the people and got burnt too many times and became jaded and bitter.

Basically as far as I can tell, a lot of government policies and laws here are made "on a whim" with very little foresight, planning or consideration of how these might affect Thais and foreigners living or visiting here. Others I believe have been made out of a general dislike of foreigners and foreign culture.. whilst at the same time they like to drive western cars, use western products like computers and adopt our technology and fashions.. that's called western hypocrisy isnt it? (yeah I stole that idea from a Bond film set in north Korea)

All it takes is a change of leadership in the government or department and suddenly everything has changed again.

For those who still think we are welcome here, just go down to the immigration in Chiang Mai, dress well and try to strike up some friendly conversation asking visa advice about how you might stay here legally and see how respectful and friendly they are to you... "YOU GO LAOS"!

I am glad I am not Indian or Black.

.

You could also be hit by bus, lightning or falling meteorite.

Somehow i still do not think Thailand is gonna close it's borders for good. The trend seems to be open up, only North Korea left and some other places with restrictions.

Requirements for cash to get extensions will keep rising with the general cost of living and inflation as they have done in the past but yet again i do not see them using it to force all foreigners out.

My take is that it will become easier for foreigners and businesses as the government will catch up with modern compurerized systems and databases etc. limiting the red tape and bureacracy. Good example of this is Thai passport office in Chaeng Wattana, all done electronically and takes around 15 mins and no queing. Much more modern and efficient than many western countries. Other ministries, immigration etc etc will follow later on for sure. Hopefully they modernize once they move to Chaeng Wattana.

What they should do is to make it easier for foreign companies to set up shop in Thailand. At the moment the process is too complicated, takes too long and is too expensive to operate the company compared to neighbouring countries. Make it easier for foreign companies and they will come for the pretty good infra in Bangkok and for reasonably priced office properties and employees. That would bring the foreign $$$ in, and in totally different scale than the annual 600k per retiree...

[bravingbangkok]

Also you all need to remember that this country is about face, the guy can say all this patriotic talk but no one will know if he actually ever puts it into action, even if it is put into action it will not be acted on ever and will then be taken out of action as quickly as it went it.

[Ulysses G.]

When did they make it easier to come here? Check out an old lonley planet circa mid 90's. No such thing as a 30 day stamp at the airport. Visa's were in advance.

They've made it easier for wives to return to Thailand, marry foreginers without having their Thai nationality stripped away (1992), they've returned the right for thai wives to own land (1999).

Exactly!

[JR Texas]

When did they make it easier to come here? Check out an old lonley planet circa mid 90's. No such thing as a 30 day stamp at the airport. Visa's were in advance.

They've made it easier for wives to return to Thailand, marry foreginers without having their Thai nationality stripped away (1992), they've returned the right for thai wives to own land (1999).

Exactly!

Been coming here since 1986 and don't remember ever having to get a tourist visa prior to entering Thailand. Most people would enter, get a "stamp," then extend it for several months at a time using several methods.

I think you might be wrong or presenting something that is misleading (e.g., at one particular time in the mid-90s maybe they changed the rule for a short time and then changed it back).

The fact remains, ten years ago it was infinitely easier to come to Thailand and live here with no visa problems.......it was easier for virtually every category of expat/tourist.

It was so easy that back then we would not have this discussion on TV (even if it existed then) because it was a non issue for most people. Nobody would have been interested in such a discussion.

[MJo]

Been coming here since 1986 and don't remember ever having to get a tourist visa prior to entering Thailand. Most people would enter, get a "stamp," then extend it for several months at a time using several methods.

I think you might be wrong or presenting something that is misleading (e.g., at one particular time in the mid-90s maybe they changed the rule for a short time and then changed it back).

The fact remains, ten years ago it was infinitely easier to come to Thailand and live here with no visa problems.......it was easier for virtually every category of expat/tourist.

It was so easy that back then we would not have this discussion on TV (even if it existed then) because it was a non issue for most people. Nobody would have been interested in such a discussion.

Visas still are a non issue for most of us. Only those who live from hand to mouth not able to pool enough cash to go to Laos or Malaysia for Tourist visa have problems.

Edited June 8, 2009 by MJo

[Ulysses G.]

The fact remains, ten years ago it was infinitely easier to come to Thailand and live here with no visa problems.......it was easier for virtually every category of expat/tourist.

It was so easy that back then we would not have this discussion on TV (even if it existed then) because it was a non issue for most people. Nobody would have been interested in such a discussion.

Maybe it was a non-issue for you, but a visa has never been a sure thing for most people. Everyone that I knew back in the old days, worried about being thrown out of the country on a regualr basis.

Wasn't it about 10 years ago that they busted a lot of people for using "visa services" and threw them out of the country and scared the he11 out everyone else?

Edited June 8, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[JR Texas]

Been coming here since 1986 and don't remember ever having to get a tourist visa prior to entering Thailand. Most people would enter, get a "stamp," then extend it for several months at a time using several methods.

I think you might be wrong or presenting something that is misleading (e.g., at one particular time in the mid-90s maybe they changed the rule for a short time and then changed it back).

The fact remains, ten years ago it was infinitely easier to come to Thailand and live here with no visa problems.......it was easier for virtually every category of expat/tourist.

It was so easy that back then we would not have this discussion on TV (even if it existed then) because it was a non issue for most people. Nobody would have been interested in such a discussion.

Visas still are a non issue for most of us. Only those who live from hand to mouth not able to pool enough cash to go to Laos or Malaysia for Tourist visa have problems.

You just don't get it and likely never will.

[Ulysses G.]

Been coming here since 1986 and don't remember ever having to get a tourist visa prior to entering Thailand. Most people would enter, get a "stamp," then extend it for several months at a time using several methods.

I'm pretty sure that you got 15 days on arrival, and I don't remember it being easy to get any more with out leaving the country.

[MJo]

You just don't get it and likely never will.

I do not know what is wrong with you my friend. Is it that hard to accept that people do not always agree with you. Once again your comment is typical narrowminded one liner which you start shooting out at the point when you do not have anything else left. But then again, looking at your nick...

[bravingbangkok]

You just don't get it and likely never will.

I do not know what is wrong with you my friend. Is it that hard to accept that people do not always agree with you. Once again your comment is typical narrowminded one liner which you start shooting out at the point when you do not have anything else left. But then again, looking at your nick...

I second that, Jr there is no need talk to people like that. Just because a few of us do not agree with you it does not mean we are wrong. MJo this forum is full of one liners that when backed into a corner start with the personal comments.

Edited June 8, 2009 by bravingbangkok

[samran]

The fact remains, ten years ago it was infinitely easier to come to Thailand and live here with no visa problems.......it was easier for virtually every category of expat/tourist.

It was so easy that back then we would not have this discussion on TV (even if it existed then) because it was a non issue for most people. Nobody would have been interested in such a discussion.

you mean, it was easier come here and make no real contribution to the country, unlike what most countries expect of their immigrants?

Edited June 8, 2009 by samran

[beechguy]

I get the down points of Thailand and I have traveled well enough to know that this is the same everywhere you go. What I cannot understand is when people honestly think that the Thai gov is out to get us ????

The west and Thailand have a long history together and I do not see why they would suddenly throw us out, I put it to you that if you have been thrown out or are in the future, did you deserve it ? probably yes. There are hundreds of things that annoy me about this country but I have never felt like everyone loathes me as I walk down the street, of course you are going to get the odd patriotic Thai but they do not control the country thank God, the big man does and he along with the rest of them have a very good personal relationship with the west, always have.

Yes there are a lot of problems in Thailand and yes we are often on the wrong end of fairness but in no way are the Thai's thinking up some evil scheme as we chat away on TV to throw us out and claim all our assets. That theory really is crazy

Well if you have bought your wife a house here, you NOW currently stand in a position where the government might take ownership of it because they could claim she is a nominee for you to own a property. Whether they will do that or not, I don't know - it might just be for people who make significant investments and generally taking the p*ss but the fact that they CAN now do just this should make alarm bells start to ring. You might upset a "respectable" official and suddenly you lose your families assets here. You might try to hob-nob with senior police and government people to get a degree of protection, or you might get a "good job" doing something "useful for the culture" but there's a good chance this will back-fire in your face at some point.

Now if you own a condo, how do you know they wont suddenly change the law and confiscate that from you? I wouldn't feel secure owning a condo right now! If you do own a property don't try renting it out... that could be seen as working here, happened to a mate of mine he didn't get deported as he has the opportunity to pay a "fine". It just takes some big-wig to dream up another "crackdown" and suddenly we lose our condos making condo land-owners suddenly very wealthy.

If you bought an Elite card... you might soon find that is useless, you wont be able to buy land as was "suggested" when they were first sold and you might find you are no longer able to use it for long-stay - I notice the government are now making an issue of the 5 year visas they promised (sold) with the Elite card. Scammed by the government... do they despise the "Elite" ones amongst the most? As far as I can tell the officials are jealous of most of us for having come from countries where we get a better chance than them, whether we are rich and successful, poor and divorced, or retired and drunk at least we started off with a better chance than them (maybe).

You might have married your wife X number of years ago,then the laws change and suddenly you might be in a position where you dont have enough cash in the bank to get the marriage visa and might have to leave your wife and abandon your kids. Who knows what the future holds. All this is done with no notice or warning whatsoever. Im not rich ive got some investment in property and would find it hard to come up with a million baht cash in bank at the drop of a hat.

There are countless examples where the authorities suddenly throw a spanner in the works and try to keep us jumping through hoops, much to their amusement. I admit there are some foreigners here who are pretty bad, and there are good ones, and there are ones who came here for the love or the culture and the people and got burnt too many times and became jaded and bitter.

Basically as far as I can tell, a lot of government policies and laws here are made "on a whim" with very little foresight, planning or consideration of how these might affect Thais and foreigners living or visiting here. Others I believe have been made out of a general dislike of foreigners and foreign culture.. whilst at the same time they like to drive western cars, use western products like computers and adopt our technology and fashions.. that's called western hypocrisy isnt it? (yeah I stole that idea from a Bond film set in north Korea)

All it takes is a change of leadership in the government or department and suddenly everything has changed again.

For those who still think we are welcome here, just go down to the immigration in Chiang Mai, dress well and try to strike up some friendly conversation asking visa advice about how you might stay here legally and see how respectful and friendly they are to you... "YOU GO LAOS"!

I am glad I am not Indian or Black.

.

That says it all.......very insightful......you have reached the core of it. Thanks for that post!

Unfortunately, he did not say it all, because of omitting or ignoring some facts. However, I feel certain it wasn't intentional, and understand what he was trying to say.

I have never heard of the Thais completely reversing a law, or making some significant changes, without providing a "Grandfathering" or transition period. Take when they increased the amounts for the "Extensions of Stay" for retirement as an example. If one previously qualified at 400,000 Baht, they were not required to meet the 800,000 Baht amount the next extension application, sometimes for 2 or more years. In some cases, their status did not change indefinitely, as long as they kept their extension active. Similar provisions were provided for the "Extensions of Stay" based on marriage. Marriage visa isn't technically correct, but we understand what he is referring to. For the marriage situation, even if someone could not comply with the extension requirements, they would still be able to stay with their family on a Non-immigrant "O" visa. If a single entry for 2000 Baht is not sufficient, a one year Multi-entry, is often available at 5,000 Baht. It would be wrong to infer, that someone would have to leave their wife, just because they didn't have an income of 40,000 Baht per month, or 400,000 Bhat in a bank account as per the current requirements.

I'll pass for now on the property issues.

As for impolite government workers, I suppose we all have had some contact with them. But, I doubt Thailand has a monoploly, as I certainly have met them in my home country and other places.

Edited June 8, 2009 by beechguy

[beechguy]

You just don't get it and likely never will.

I do not know what is wrong with you my friend. Is it that hard to accept that people do not always agree with you. Once again your comment is typical narrowminded one liner which you start shooting out at the point when you do not have anything else left. But then again, looking at your nick...

I second that, Jr there is no need talk to people like that. Just because a few of us do not agree with you it does not mean we are wrong. MJo this forum is full of one liners that when backed into a corner start with the personal comments.

I wouldn't worry about it guys, it's obvious he doesn't have any significant, factual information to support his position. And, many of the other posts, are just some people mostly complaining about rude behavior, as if Thailand is the only place that exists. But, that's what forums are for I suppose. As for his version of how good the old days were? don't know what to say, except it's 2009 now, maybe it's time to get over it and move on.

Edited June 8, 2009 by beechguy

[FairwayJack]

I think the anti-falang bias is primarily based on the massive devaluation of the baht 10 years ago. It was a shock to the "powers that be" that Soros et al could waltz off with the billions of dollars that Thailand had in their foreign reserves. All subsequent behaviour has been pay back (revenge) for this financial disaster.

[JR Texas]

You just don't get it and likely never will.

I do not know what is wrong with you my friend. Is it that hard to accept that people do not always agree with you. Once again your comment is typical narrowminded one liner which you start shooting out at the point when you do not have anything else left. But then again, looking at your nick...

I second that, Jr there is no need talk to people like that. Just because a few of us do not agree with you it does not mean we are wrong. MJo this forum is full of one liners that when backed into a corner start with the personal comments.

I wouldn't worry about it guys, it's obvious he doesn't have any significant, factual information to support his position. And, many of the other posts, are just some people mostly complaining about rude behavior, as if Thailand is the only place that exists. But, that's what forums are for I suppose. As for his version of how good the old days were? don't know what to say, except it's 2009 now, maybe it's time to get over it and move on.

I am starting to think that most of you have only been here a short time and have almost no perspective on this. When presented with facts you ignore them and state that no facts have been presented. Chew on this:

Ten years ago the prices for visas were about half what they are today........

Ten years ago it was no problem to enter without a visa and do as many visa runs as you liked......nobody counted them.......there was no such thing as a "border runner."

Ten years ago nobody demanded to see an exit airline ticket when doing a visa run........

Ten years ago nobody demanded to see an exit airline ticket when trying to get a tourist visa outside of the country......

Ten years ago it was no problem getting multiple entry tourist visas in most locations, not just one (e.g., Lao)...

Ten years ago nobody counted the number of tourists visas.......wasn't an issue

Ten years ago a male foreign spouse of a Thai woman had to deposit about 200K in a Thai bank........now it is 400K

Ten years ago a male foreign spouse of a Thai woman had to show an income of about 20K.....now it is 40K

Ten years ago it was possible to get a reentry permit at virtually any immigration dept......now that has been severely restricted and you can't even get one at the international airport (unless it is an emergency)

Ten years ago it was possible to take care of your visa issues at multiple immigration offices........now you are restricted to the dept. that serves the province you are living in......very inconvenient for some of us

Ten years ago it was possible to purchase property using a company........now that situation is considered illegal

Ten years ago there was no talk by the Land Dept. that if they discover that a foreign spouse of a Thai woman gave her money to buy a house or land, that they would seize it........now that just happened.

Ten years ago the investment visa was much less than it is today.......

Facts.......how many more facts do you need? The situation was easier ten years ago. The bar continues to be raised......the message is we do not want foreigners in Thailand.

[james24]

The pointing or touch of the feet, the staring at someone you dont know for too long, these are both considered extremely rude in Thailands culture, but how often is that done to us???? Please dont be naive to think they don't know what they are doing. The majority dont like us and unfortunately until the freedom of education and knowledge is encouraged it will stay that way.

[basjke]

I am starting to think that most of you have only been here a short time and have almost no perspective on this. When presented with facts you ignore them and state that no facts have been presented. Chew on this:

Ten years ago the prices for visas were about half what they are today........

Shall we call that inflation?

Ten years ago it was no problem to enter without a visa and do as many visa runs as you liked......nobody counted them.......there was no such thing as a "border runner."

No at time you gave your passport to a bureau which took it out of the country without your presence and was illegal of course.By the way it costed more then a visarun now.

Ten years ago nobody demanded to see an exit airline ticket when doing a visa run........

You are correct about that but doesn't almost every country in the world demands the same.

Ten years ago nobody demanded to see an exit airline ticket when trying to get a tourist visa outside of the country......

You repeat yourself

Ten years ago it was no problem getting multiple entry tourist visas in most locations, not just one (e.g., Lao)...

I think you are right about that but every western country demands that you only can apply for a visa in your home country.

Ten years ago nobody counted the number of tourists visas.......wasn't an issue

they still don't do as far as I recall.

Ten years ago a male foreign spouse of a Thai woman had to deposit about 200K in a Thai bank........now it is 400K

Again inflation

Ten years ago a male foreign spouse of a Thai woman had to show an income of about 20K.....now it is 40K

Read above.To add at that time gasolione for example was 9 Baht a litre.

Ten years ago it was possible to get a reentry permit at virtually any immigration dept......now that has been severely restricted and you can't even get one at the international airport (unless it is an emergency)

Is that such a big problem?

Ten years ago it was possible to take care of your visa issues at multiple immigration offices........now you are restricted to the dept. that serves the province you are living in......very inconvenient for some of us

As you say SOME of us

Ten years ago it was possible to purchase property using a company........now that situation is considered illegal

It has never been legal.

Ten years ago there was no talk by the Land Dept. that if they discover that a foreign spouse of a Thai woman gave her money to buy a house or land, that they would seize it........now that just happened.\

No but the same law existed anyway

Ten years ago the investment visa was much less than it is today.......

at that time a condo was also much less then now.

Facts.......how many more facts do you need? The situation was easier ten years ago. The bar continues to be raised......the message is we do not want foreigners in Thailand.

Now that I gave my answers to the facts as you stated them I would also like to add that indeed the hostility against foreigners has risen significantly in the past years but it is primarily with the thai people,not the current government in my opinion.And the reason of all this is because they are uneducated and were winded up by square head the greatest which is still in the mind of a lot of those people.I hope the current government is able to change the general opinion otherwise I am scared it might escalate one day.

[beechguy]

I am starting to think that most of you have only been here a short time and have almost no perspective on this. When presented with facts you ignore them and state that no facts have been presented. Chew on this:

Ten years ago the prices for visas were about half what they are today........

Shall we call that inflation?

Ten years ago it was no problem to enter without a visa and do as many visa runs as you liked......nobody counted them.......there was no such thing as a "border runner."

No at time you gave your passport to a bureau which took it out of the country without your presence and was illegal of course.By the way it costed more then a visarun now.

Ten years ago nobody demanded to see an exit airline ticket when doing a visa run........

You are correct about that but doesn't almost every country in the world demands the same.

Ten years ago nobody demanded to see an exit airline ticket when trying to get a tourist visa outside of the country......

You repeat yourself

Ten years ago it was no problem getting multiple entry tourist visas in most locations, not just one (e.g., Lao)...

I think you are right about that but every western country demands that you only can apply for a visa in your home country.

Ten years ago nobody counted the number of tourists visas.......wasn't an issue

they still don't do as far as I recall.

Ten years ago a male foreign spouse of a Thai woman had to deposit about 200K in a Thai bank........now it is 400K

Again inflation

Ten years ago a male foreign spouse of a Thai woman had to show an income of about 20K.....now it is 40K

Read above.To add at that time gasolione for example was 9 Baht a litre.

Ten years ago it was possible to get a reentry permit at virtually any immigration dept......now that has been severely restricted and you can't even get one at the international airport (unless it is an emergency)

Is that such a big problem?

Ten years ago it was possible to take care of your visa issues at multiple immigration offices........now you are restricted to the dept. that serves the province you are living in......very inconvenient for some of us

As you say SOME of us

Ten years ago it was possible to purchase property using a company........now that situation is considered illegal

It has never been legal.

Ten years ago there was no talk by the Land Dept. that if they discover that a foreign spouse of a Thai woman gave her money to buy a house or land, that they would seize it........now that just happened.\

No but the same law existed anyway

Ten years ago the investment visa was much less than it is today.......

at that time a condo was also much less then now.

Facts.......how many more facts do you need? The situation was easier ten years ago. The bar continues to be raised......the message is we do not want foreigners in Thailand.

Now that I gave my answers to the facts as you stated them I would also like to add that indeed the hostility against foreigners has risen significantly in the past years but it is primarily with the thai people,not the current government in my opinion.And the reason of all this is because they are uneducated and were winded up by square head the greatest which is still in the mind of a lot of those people.I hope the current government is able to change the general opinion otherwise I am scared it might escalate one day.

I like most of your responses, I'll look at JR's post more carefully later and no doubt have something to add though. As for myself, I haven't noticed any hostility. Except for a grumpy shopkeeper and a Baht Bus driver in Pattaya, I don't have any complaints about how I've been treated. As a matter of fact, quite a few people have gone out of their way to make me feel welcome, especially when I've gone to events where I was the only westerner.

[Moonrakers]

The fact remains, ten years ago it was infinitely easier to come to Thailand and live here with no visa problems.......it was easier for virtually every category of expat/tourist.

It was so easy that back then we would not have this discussion on TV (even if it existed then) because it was a non issue for most people. Nobody would have been interested in such a discussion.

you mean, it was easier come here and make no real contribution to the country, unlike what most countries expect of their immigrants?

Steady on now samran, you should know that your sentence contains way too much reason and logic for some on here.

[MJo]

Now that I gave my answers to the facts as you stated them I would also like to add that indeed the hostility against foreigners has risen significantly in the past years but it is primarily with the thai people,not the current government in my opinion.And the reason of all this is because they are uneducated and were winded up by square head the greatest which is still in the mind of a lot of those people.I hope the current government is able to change the general opinion otherwise I am scared it might escalate one day.

Yep there is a thing called inflation. I think that was mentioned few pages back. Only thing to add is that in past 10 years i have never been asked to show return ticket in immigration or in embassy when applying visa. Twice i was asked by airlines when checking in. And both happened to be US airlines. Once in United and once in NWA. And yes, i'm aware that some embassies now ask to see them.

Also i do not see the requirement to deal with your "home" immigration as an issue. Yes i know from JR's previous posts that he has long distance and is one of the few that have now more hassle with it but still it's once a year, i mean one trip per year to renew extension and get re-entry. 90 day reports you can mail in. In any case this has nothing to do with them trying to kick foreigners out.

Anyways, it is nice and quite natural to remember the good old days is it. Those days when you could party 3 days without having a hangover, weather was much nicer and prices so cheap. Those days Singha still tasted like Singha and cost you only 5 baht, girls were beatiful and you did not need to pop viagra to have some fun with them

[JR Texas]

Now that I gave my answers to the facts as you stated them I would also like to add that indeed the hostility against foreigners has risen significantly in the past years but it is primarily with the thai people,not the current government in my opinion.And the reason of all this is because they are uneducated and were winded up by square head the greatest which is still in the mind of a lot of those people.I hope the current government is able to change the general opinion otherwise I am scared it might escalate one day.

Yep there is a thing called inflation. I think that was mentioned few pages back. Only thing to add is that in past 10 years i have never been asked to show return ticket in immigration or in embassy when applying visa. Twice i was asked by airlines when checking in. And both happened to be US airlines. Once in United and once in NWA. And yes, i'm aware that some embassies now ask to see them.

Also i do not see the requirement to deal with your "home" immigration as an issue. Yes i know from JR's previous posts that he has long distance and is one of the few that have now more hassle with it but still it's once a year, i mean one trip per year to renew extension and get re-entry. 90 day reports you can mail in. In any case this has nothing to do with them trying to kick foreigners out.

Anyways, it is nice and quite natural to remember the good old days is it. Those days when you could party 3 days without having a hangover, weather was much nicer and prices so cheap. Those days Singha still tasted like Singha and cost you only 5 baht, girls were beatiful and you did not need to pop viagra to have some fun with them

A "collective yawn" is not a valid response to changes that have hurt many expats in the country and harmed the micro-economy associated with tourism.

What it is is a distraction that reveals a lack of ability to respond in a thoughtful manner without resorting to misleading commentary.

Your responses are reminiscent of the typical responses of those who think global warming is not real or insignificant:

"Oh.....an ice shelf just melted.......so what, we don't need any more ice anyway."

"Oh......the temperature is going to rise 1-2 degrees......no problem, just put on sunscreen."

My first thought, after reading your responses, was on a line from the Beatles:

"Living is easy with eyes closed......misunderstanding all you see." (Strawberry Fields)

The facts are out there (and I could have presented more facts for you).......most TV readers are sophisticated and know the facts surrounding the visa rule changes and know how to interpret them.

[samran]

Ten years ago there was no talk by the Land Dept. that if they discover that a foreign spouse of a Thai woman gave her money to buy a house or land, that they would seize it........now that just happened.

By god man, have you not heard of the word inflation? Or are you just some NGO nutter who thinks that you are owed a living at the expense of the tax payer?

In reponse to the above quote:

Ten years ago it was illegal for a Thai woman married to a foreigner to by land at all.

That has changed, and it is legal for all thai citizens for Thai's to own land and if they are married to a foreign spouse, can do so long as long as the land is declared as not being common marriage property.

good grief, learn to read and study the concept of economics.

the only concept you think you understand is somehow the Thai people owe you something.

The facts are out there (and I could have presented more facts for you).......most TV readers are sophisticated and know the facts surrounding the visa rule changes and know how to interpret them.

you should really team up with Agent Mulder from the X-files. The truth is out there...um...somewhere.

Edited June 9, 2009 by samran

[beechguy]

Quoting JR: I am starting to think that most of you have only been here a short time and have almost no perspective on this. When presented with facts you ignore them and state that no facts have been presented. Chew on this:

Ten years ago the prices for visas were about half what they are today........

Tourist Visa 1,000 Baht, Single Non "O" 2,000 Baht, 1 year(actually can be used 15 months) Non "O" 5,000 Baht,

Yes, more expensive than 1999, but what isn't? If those prices are cost prohibitive, I would suggest they review their finacial situation.

Ten years ago it was no problem to enter without a visa and do as many visa runs as you liked......nobody counted them.......there was no such thing as a "border runner."

It's the same now if entering by air, there no limits on Free "Visa Exempt" entries for about 40 countries.

Ten years ago nobody demanded to see an exit airline ticket when doing a visa run........

I, and many others haven't had that problem, you may want to read some of the reports sometime, and get upto date information.

Ten years ago nobody demanded to see an exit airline ticket when trying to get a tourist visa outside of the country......

Same as above.

Ten years ago it was no problem getting multiple entry tourist visas in most locations, not just one (e.g., Lao)...

Easy to get double or triple entry visas in one's home country, before they come here. Also, double entry available in Cambodia as well as Lao.

Ten years ago nobody counted the number of tourists visas.......wasn't an issue

Nobody is counting now, again, perhaps you should do a little research before posting inaccurate information.

Ten years ago a male foreign spouse of a Thai woman had to deposit about 200K in a Thai bank........now it is 400K

That would be for an "Extension of Stay", not a visa. If they can't qualify, one could still live with their wife on a 1 year Multi-entry "O". 5,000 Baht, and if used properly, good for 15 months worth of 90 day stays. No need to be away from their wife or family as some of the uninformed try to suggest.

Ten years ago a male foreign spouse of a Thai woman had to show an income of about 20K.....now it is 40K

Same as above.

Ten years ago it was possible to get a reentry permit at virtually any immigration dept......now that has been severely restricted and you can't even get one at the international airport (unless it is an emergency)

A bit inconvenient, but easy enough to obtain when visiting immigration for other issues.

Ten years ago it was possible to take care of your visa issues at multiple immigration offices........now you are restricted to the dept. that serves the province you are living in......very inconvenient for some of us

Again, inconvenient perhaps, but easy enough to combine issues and reduce the number of trips.

Ten years ago it was possible to purchase property using a company........now that situation is considered illegal

Not a lawyer, but if I remember correctly, many considered the practice questionable even back then. All though, apparently some still are doing it.

Ten years ago there was no talk by the Land Dept. that if they discover that a foreign spouse of a Thai woman gave her money to buy a house or land, that they would seize it........now that just happened.

Didn't have time to look, but there was a legal firm interviewed in a newspaper or on a website saying there is little to be concerened about. Also, as others have mentioned, the ownership situation is much better for Thai women now.

Ten years ago the investment visa was much less than it is today.......

True, but again prices of everything have gone up. However, the people that did take advantage of this, before 2006 if I remember correctly, still have their same priveleges. The Thai government did not try to take anything away from them.

Facts.......how many more facts do you need? The situation was easier ten years ago. The bar continues to be raised......the message is we do not want foreigners in Thailand.

So, are things the same as 1999? No, but what is. The fact is, it is easy to come here and stay here. If one thinks these visa fees and conditions are excessive or prohibitive, I would suggest they spend more time reviewing their financial situation, rather than concerning themselves with a foriegn county's immigration regulations. Are there other countries with less expensive visa fees, sure, but there also some with similar prices, perhaps a little more expensive. At any rate, it is not the Thais responsibility to adjust their regulations to fit everyones siuation, that would impractical, if not impossible.

So, considering, they allow unlimited, free, visa exempt entries, reasonably priced and obtainable Tourist and Non-immigrant visas without limits. If they don't want foreigners, why do they make it so easy to visit or stay?

Edited June 9, 2009 by beechguy

[MJo]

A "collective yawn" is not a valid response to changes that have hurt many expats in the country and harmed the micro-economy associated with tourism.

What it is is a distraction that reveals a lack of ability to respond in a thoughtful manner without resorting to misleading commentary.

Your responses are reminiscent of the typical responses of those who think global warming is not real or insignificant:

"Oh.....an ice shelf just melted.......so what, we don't need any more ice anyway."

"Oh......the temperature is going to rise 1-2 degrees......no problem, just put on sunscreen."

My first thought, after reading your responses, was on a line from the Beatles:

"Living is easy with eyes closed......misunderstanding all you see." (Strawberry Fields)

The facts are out there (and I could have presented more facts for you).......most TV readers are sophisticated and know the facts surrounding the visa rule changes and know how to interpret them.

Since we have long departed from the topic, my guess would be ex-USAID or GI who saved the world by organizing coke and burgers for the troops out in the jungle

But seriously JR. It is only you that considers your opinions to be the facts.

The real facts are now stated many times for the costs in 1999 and in 2009. Yes it was cheaper then and I claim it's inflation, you claim it's all part of big Thai plan to drive us out from the country. You serious with your microeconomics? Maybe you could then educate us more and tell how much of the tourism income comes from tourists that are in country less than 30 days and how much is coming from those border running tourists? I bet it's peanuts compared to what real "package" tourists bring in.

I have no idea where you are going with the strawberry fields stuff so i leave it for now. Time stamp for the post is pretty late so i'm sure whatever it is it will wear off shortly.