The Lie About The Thai Woman

[F1fanatic]

Yes, the bar scene will harden any woman, but so will a lot of marriages harden men towards women. I know dozens of nice, middle aged men (and older) who never did anything wrong, and worked at a boring job for years to provide for their families, but then their wives got the 40 year itch and thought they could do better, or wanted to try out their tennis coach. Then, the marriage breaks up and the guy is left wondering what happened. Don't tell me it's always the men that are fooling around because it just ain't so. In both of my marriages I never played around, but I sure had lots of opportunities with other married women who made it quite plain that they wanted to. I know all about the games that people play and try and rationalize. It happens everywhere in educated countries.

.

You know, Ian, my dad taught me something very important many years ago when discussing how other people's relationships work. "You never know whats going on in another man's head or in another man's bed" Suggest you step back from judging what you cannot possibly know. You have no idea why these women strayed, or why they felt the need to.

As for Thai women, frankly, they are just like Thai men, western women and western men. There are some exceptional ones, some awful ones and the rest are mostly in between. Life is not black and white and its interesting to see how many people feel the need to paint it that way.

I find it more interesting to see how some people try to deny the obvious despite all evidence to the contrary.

If you genuinely think that relationships here are just the same here as they are in the West then, respectfully (bearing in mind you are a moderator), I think you need to take off your rose-coloured glasses.

Farang women with Thai men are, (I accept) a different story, but to pretend that relationships are just the same here as in the West is a tad misleading to say the least!!

[Datsun240Z]

I think I feel pity for all the men, who fell in the trap. I see world domination by woman coming! Guys duck!

[sbk]

Yes, the bar scene will harden any woman, but so will a lot of marriages harden men towards women. I know dozens of nice, middle aged men (and older) who never did anything wrong, and worked at a boring job for years to provide for their families, but then their wives got the 40 year itch and thought they could do better, or wanted to try out their tennis coach. Then, the marriage breaks up and the guy is left wondering what happened. Don't tell me it's always the men that are fooling around because it just ain't so. In both of my marriages I never played around, but I sure had lots of opportunities with other married women who made it quite plain that they wanted to. I know all about the games that people play and try and rationalize. It happens everywhere in educated countries.

.

You know, Ian, my dad taught me something very important many years ago when discussing how other people's relationships work. "You never know whats going on in another man's head or in another man's bed" Suggest you step back from judging what you cannot possibly know. You have no idea why these women strayed, or why they felt the need to.

As for Thai women, frankly, they are just like Thai men, western women and western men. There are some exceptional ones, some awful ones and the rest are mostly in between. Life is not black and white and its interesting to see how many people feel the need to paint it that way.

I find it more interesting to see how some people try to deny the obvious despite all evidence to the contrary.

If you genuinely think that relationships here are just the same here as they are in the West then, respectfully (bearing in mind you are a moderator), I think you need to take off your rose-coloured glasses.

Farang women with Thai men are, (I accept) a different story, but to pretend that relationships are just the same here as in the West is a tad misleading to say the least!!

I really have no idea why you read my post in that way. I do not believe i said that at all. I was talking about western relationships being judged by an outsider and then went on to say something else. My point, if you would like to re-read what I had to say, was that there are good thai people and bad thai people just like there are good western people and bad western people.

You are fond of using that rose colored glasses against other posters but I must tell you that 20 years in Thailand has given me a probably more complete picture of Thailand than you currently have.

[cognos]

The post is ( hopefully ) NOT about judging others in a negative way..a motive regarding the alleged "double standard" was to possibly have one or two men examine their "modus operandi" with thai (or farang) women, and if they thought they were falling short vis a vis respecting the dignity of women enough, then they could perhaps adjust their behaviors to reflect their "new-found" appreciation of the "stronger sex".. perhaps then they would even find their own lives improving as well.

[Shotime]

It's not a lie, it's a misconception. Like everything else today.

I want to be reincarnated as an ok looking Thai woman. I have seen men rejected by the worst possible kind of woman you could find anywhere in the world, right here in that little part of Thailand where most of these misconceptions spring from. Because they were j____fs.

I could take you to places where I am now that would make Nana look like a nunnery. It always amazed me how these women in Thailand could remain so "innocent" given some of their lifestyles. Maybe I'm just getting too old. Good

[cognos]

It's not a lie, it's a misconception. Like everything else today.

I want to be reincarnated as an ok looking Thai woman. I have seen men rejected by the worst possible kind of woman you could find anywhere in the world, right here in that little part of Thailand where most of these misconceptions spring from. Because they were j____fs.

I could take you to places where I am now that would make Nana look like a nunnery. It always amazed me how these women in Thailand could remain so "innocent" given some of their lifestyles. Maybe I'm just getting too old. Good

I'm glad you don't want to be reincarnated as a ladyboy, not that there is anything wrong with that

[bonobo]

Yes, the bar scene will harden any woman, but so will a lot of marriages harden men towards women. I know dozens of nice, middle aged men (and older) who never did anything wrong, and worked at a boring job for years to provide for their families, but then their wives got the 40 year itch and thought they could do better, or wanted to try out their tennis coach. Then, the marriage breaks up and the guy is left wondering what happened. Don't tell me it's always the men that are fooling around because it just ain't so. In both of my marriages I never played around, but I sure had lots of opportunities with other married women who made it quite plain that they wanted to. I know all about the games that people play and try and rationalize. It happens everywhere in educated countries.

.

You know, Ian, my dad taught me something very important many years ago when discussing how other people's relationships work. "You never know whats going on in another man's head or in another man's bed" Suggest you step back from judging what you cannot possibly know. You have no idea why these women strayed, or why they felt the need to.

As for Thai women, frankly, they are just like Thai men, western women and western men. There are some exceptional ones, some awful ones and the rest are mostly in between. Life is not black and white and its interesting to see how many people feel the need to paint it that way.

I find it more interesting to see how some people try to deny the obvious despite all evidence to the contrary.

If you genuinely think that relationships here are just the same here as they are in the West then, respectfully (bearing in mind you are a moderator), I think you need to take off your rose-coloured glasses.

Farang women with Thai men are, (I accept) a different story, but to pretend that relationships are just the same here as in the West is a tad misleading to say the least!!

Relationships are different from all others, whether here or in the West. And individuals are all different.  But as a whole, it is my contention and that of many other posters here, that there is not that much different between Thai women and American women and Brazilian women and so-on (or men from other countries, for that matter.) Thai women are no more or no less promiscuous, as a group, than women from other countries. A foreign/Thai relationship is going to be different than a relationship between two people from within the same culture, but not based on any real difference between the inherent desires and aspirations of the individuals involved, but rather on the different languages, experiences, background, religions, etc. that probably exists between the two people.

[CuriousGeorge77]

"Men are gold, women are silence, silence is gold, men are women and women are men"

"I am the walrus"

... on the topic, I think there is a total double standard, and I think there is a ton of racism out there as well. Men and women are far more similar than different. The whole myth about men 'spreading their seed' and women 'raising the kids' is mostly BS. Men want to spread their seed, yes, but only to women who will make good kids. Women also want good men to spread their seed, as weell as pair-bond with the type who will take care of her kids, no matter whose they really are. There are many types of strategies, employed by both men and women, and being purely monogamous is just not typical, for either one. (for example, if you go to a nightclub the women with the most skin showing will be the most fertile, AND those with husbands who are not there. go figure that one out.

This is not to say I advocate not being monogamous - I most certainly don't! I think its a fools errand, but thats just me. I don't hold others to my decisions and opinions.

Edited June 10, 2009 by CuriousGeorge77

[WaiWai]

Mae West said "I used to be Snow White, but I drifted" (or similar -- and relevant not only to the topic but the direction(s) of this thread.) Does Thailand have any counterparts to Mae? Please allow me to let my thoughts drift a little, too.

In Thai, as well as many Asian & other cultures, it's generally not considered too appropriate for a woman to suggest that she greatly enjoys or is interested in sex. There's very much a "good girl"/"bad girl" dichotomy. Recently, I even heard a foreign man ask a young Thai hotel receptionist which kind she was, within earshot of everyone within 10 metres. There was a good deal of laughter amongst the staff about this afterwards but it is a fair example of the attitudes many foreigners have towards Thais (both male and female).

And, I have heard from many Asians, including Thais, that ideal qualities in a wife/mother include "chastity" and "modesty". Sexual desire is seen as a male "fatal flaw"/'weakness"; pleasurable sex is something in which men tend to indulge with women/men for whom they have less respect and who are not part of the core family. Yes, this is changing somewhat amongst younger people and obviously this does not apply to everyone.

I have learnt that the notion that we humans are all the same beneath cultural differences is true to an extent only. (I also think this idea of sameness is an idea we from Western cultures are taught to subscribe to, far more than in most other cultures.) I believe culturally proscribed and absorbed values can affect our thoughts and behaviours profoundly. Many studies support this. What happens when cultures meet -- especially when the cultures are very different -- is fascinating. My personal observation is that after initial sensations of "freedom" from the thinking and restraints of one's "home culture", many people (some quite quickly and some more gradually) revert to the values of their own culture, sometimes in quite dogmatic forms.

I have to say that Thailand's reputation cannot be said to be entirely undeserved. There's far too much anecdotal and statistical evidence to think otherwise. However, I still think there's a distinction to be made between perceptions of Thais as promiscuous and those of Thais as pragmatic.

The original question was, "You know the Lie: Thai (and sometimes Asian) woman are often unfairly portrayed as more promiscuous than western woman in the Western media; I allege this is done under the subtle but persistent guise of racism"

I think there is truth in this. There is a subtle type of racism that allows us to rationalize our views of people from different cultures.

I think I have drifted enough for now.

Edited June 10, 2009 by WaiWai

[bonobo]

Mae West said "I used to be Snow White, but I drifted" (or similar -- and relevant not only to the topic but the direction(s) of this thread.) Does Thailand have any counterparts to Mae? Please allow me to let my thoughts drift a little, too.

In Thai, as well as many Asian & other cultures, it's generally not considered too appropriate for a woman to suggest that she greatly enjoys or is interested in sex. There's very much a "good girl"/"bad girl" dichotomy. Recently, I even heard a foreign man ask a young Thai hotel receptionist which kind she was, within earshot of everyone within 10 metres. There was a good deal of laughter amongst the staff about this afterwards but it is a fair example of the attitudes many foreigners have towards Thais (both male and female).

And, I have heard from many Asians, including Thais, that ideal qualities in a wife/mother include "chastity" and "modesty". Sexual desire is seen as a male "fatal flaw"/'weakness"; pleasurable sex is something in which men tend to indulge with women/men for whom they have less respect and who are not part of the core family. Yes, this is changing somewhat amongst younger people and obviously this does not apply to everyone.

I have learnt that the notion that we humans are all the same beneath cultural differences is true to an extent only. (I also think this idea of sameness is an idea we from Western cultures are taught to subscribe to, far more than in most other cultures.) I believe culturally proscribed and absorbed values can affect our thoughts and behaviours profoundly. Many studies support this. What happens when cultures meet -- especially when the cultures are very different -- is fascinating. My personal observation is that after initial sensations of "freedom" from the thinking and restraints of one's "home culture", many people (some quite quickly and some more gradually) revert to the values of their own culture, sometimes in quite dogmatic forms.

I have to say that Thailand's reputation cannot be said to be entirely undeserved. There's far too much anecdotal and statistical evidence to think otherwise. However, I still think there's a distinction to be made between perceptions of Thais as promiscuous and those of Thais as pragmatic.

The original question was, "You know the Lie: Thai (and sometimes Asian) woman are often unfairly portrayed as more promiscuous than western woman in the Western media; I allege this is done under the subtle but persistent guise of racism"

I think there is truth in this. There is a subtle type of racism that allows us to rationalize our views of people from different cultures.

I think I have drifted enough for now.

This is a well thought-out post, and I respect your views. However, with regards to the part I bolded, my feelings about the idea of "sameness" are nothing I was taught.  In fact, I have been taught the opposite.  I based my opinions on this from personal experiences and observations.  And the more I experience, the more convinced I am that under the skin, we are all very much alike.  Culture dictates how we present ourselves to others, but our personal imperatives are remarkedly similar.

[CFIT]

Is there a double standard -Are Thai women different?

You bet, in the west, I don't have hordes of women trying to offer me a ride / pick me up on every street corner like I do in Thailand.

Give me a break, sex for money is an institution, the reason it's kept illegal is to facilitate police corruption. It is WHAT Thailand is famous for.

How many prostitutes in the west are sent to the job with blessings by their families?

Some of the posters here are really fooling themselves , take away your ability to support your Thai mate in the manner in which she is accustomed (or otherwise pay for sex, ) see how long she stays with a " Farang "

Like everything else here, rent cheap.

[CFIT]

I have only ever been with one Thai woman (my wife) but in my dating days in the USA, 1980's and 1990's it seemed to me taking the average American woman out to dinner almost certainly guaranteed sex providing you weren't a jerk.

Maybe they only dated men they wanted to have sex with.

[kaorop]

Farang women, ALL women are subject to the double sexual standard, and that is no good MR. LEK ( fictionous male name) We know it exists...as males, are we okay with the staus quo? I ain't okay with it..people always think they are helpless to make changes in society..WRONGO example:1. men could decide to level the field and call themselves slutss , rather than "Players" or "Operators"..2. they could stop bragging about their "conquests" so much..

There are no double standards for men?

[Shotime]

Western (Especially in the USA) morality is based on Puritan thought. We don't even have douches at our toilets.

[irishlad]

Problem is though if you look at all of this from an a western point of view..

I live in Munich and I see here german men with Thai women and everyone will immediately consider the thai woman a HOOR and the german man a loser......its the way things are and thats why many many men head to Thailand is to get a wife , they would have zero hope in a western setting so they head to the land of easy pickings ...........

correct me if wrong ?

[Shotime]

Problem is though if you look at all of this from an a western point of view..

I live in Munich and I see here german men with Thai women and everyone will immediately consider the thai woman a HOOR and the german man a loser......its the way things are and thats why many many men head to Thailand is to get a wife , they would have zero hope in a western setting so they head to the land of easy pickings ...........

correct me if wrong ?

Misconception is "land of easy pickings", and you are not wrong. If anything, it's like walking through a minefield.

"If loving you is wrong, I don't want to be right."

[Datsun240Z]

I agree with Irishlad here. Although it can be a bit different in which western country you are. I took my girl to Holland, and not much problems at all, maybe because Holland is allready 50% ( as the goverment says ) foreigner! But had no problems when I went to Germany though, but Irishlad you are right, this problem is there. But when as a Westerner when you walk with your lady across Thailand, the Thai lads look at you.....

[cognos]

Farang women, ALL women are subject to the double sexual standard, and that is no good MR. LEK ( fictionous male name) We know it exists...as males, are we okay with the staus quo? I ain't okay with it..people always think they are helpless to make changes in society..WRONGO example:1. men could decide to level the field and call themselves slutss , rather than "Players" or "Operators"..2. they could stop bragging about their "conquests" so much..

There are no double standards for men?

I suppose there are, hmmm..maybe someone can elaborate..

[Shotime]

Same, same, but different.

[CHdiver]

Problem is though if you look at all of this from an a western point of view..

I live in Munich and I see here german men with Thai women and everyone will immediately consider the thai woman a HOOR and the german man a loser......its the way things are and thats why many many men head to Thailand is to get a wife , they would have zero hope in a western setting so they head to the land of easy pickings ...........

correct me if wrong ?

No wonder to hear this from the "Land der Lederhosen". Looks like they still have some problem if you dont marry a proper German Woman then.

I hope its mandatory for them to wear a Sign with "i am a Thai", so they can clearly be separated from all the other Asian Nations.

[cognos]

Same, same, but different.

yes men are different..we are more dispensable than women.. eg: all the current and past wars are mostly men killing each other ... and men cannot have babies..so women are more indispensable than men,and they are the stronger sex (they live longer on average) it can easily be argued, so we should make sure as men that women are always treated well, BUT the double sexual standard is not an indication of that

[breaky73]

I think...even though women and men all over the world are basicly the same..money, culture, habits and history always play a role in life.

Are Thai women more promiscuous than other women. No. But it is the background what differs.

Coming from the Netherlands (and now living in Laos) I can see the differences in equality having a big effect on daily life.

Many of the Lao people i meet have never been able to travel or to learn much....and looking what lies ahead of some of my staff...i really wouldn't know since their education level is so very poor. Many guys here for example have chosen the path of being a bf for an old falang only because of the money.

Things are way much better in Thailand ofcourse but still there is a big difference in equality.

Does a poor girl from a rural Isan village have to work as a bg to get higher up in life? No. But the change that she will become a bg is probably bigger than someone who had the education, knowledge and money to have a good life,

Couple that with historical and cultural differences, add the nice beaches, rich cultural life, wonderful food (thus being a good excuse for a great holiday destination), the friendlyness of the people and there...the myth is born!

For me i have noticed that many local men (lao/thai) have no problems with having a gf on the side. One day i asked why so many people here have phones with two sim cards...the answer was that one sim card was for the wifey and the other simcard was for the secret gf.

Another sad point is that although my father-in-law warned/joked to me on my wedding day with my lao sweetheart that is it common to have only one wife but learned later that he has a gf on the side for many years now plus children!

Anyway...the stories are numerous.....even in Laos. So yes..men and women are the same all over...but inequality and lao/thai men who find it normal to have someone extra do make a difference.

Edited June 12, 2009 by breaky73

[moskito]

No wonder to hear this from the "Land der Lederhosen". Looks like they still have some problem if you dont marry a proper German Woman then.

you are right, specially the german women got this problem with thai ladies which are usually a bit younger looking and a bit lighter in weight

btw, it has a lot to do with the mass media in germany and the way they report about "relationships" in LOS

but anyway, doesn´t matter where you live its always and nearly everywhere the same the way they are looking at you and your THAIwife, not ONLY in germany.

[Texpat]

yes men are different..we are more dispensable than women..

Women are precious, indeed.

I can muster 50,000,000 to 500,000,000 sperm in one go -- enough to repopulate the entire planet in two (really good) days. I can reload in a matter of hours.

Women are born with a finite number of eggs. At birth, a woman has around 1 to 2 million eggs. At puberty, only around 400,000 remain. Throughout the reproductive life span, from puberty until menopause, women lose about 1,000 eggs each month.

Women can only get pregnant once or twice a year giving birth to usually one or two at a time. I can, theoretically, get every female on the planet pregnant every day.

(all statements herein made at risk of doing mathematics in public.)

Edited June 13, 2009 by Texpat

[moskito]

yes men are different..we are more dispensable than women..

Women are precious, indeed.

I can muster 50,000,000 to 500,000,000 sperm in one go -- enough to repopulate the entire planet in two (really good) days. I can reload in a matter of hours.

Women are born with a finite number of eggs. At birth, a woman has around 1 to 2 million eggs. At puberty, only around 400,000 remain. Throughout the reproductive life span, from puberty until menopause, women lose about 1,000 eggs each month.

Women can only get pregnant once or twice a year giving birth to usually one or two at a time. I can, theoretically, get every female on the planet pregnant every day.

(all statements herein made at risk of doing mathematics in public.)

so, and NOW someone tell me I waste my time in internet forums .....there is still something we learn even here

[Bagwan]

Are Thai ladies more promiscuous? The results of a survey carried out about 6 years ago published in the Post said that about 60% of women interviewed admitted that they had slept with men for financial or career advantage.

All of the 20 or so ladies that I have asked out to dinner/movies/whatever have, save for 2 of them, invited me to 'come up and see their room' when I have dropped them off at their home at the end of the evening. The implication was clear. Some said that they had arranged with their roommate that they sleep elsewhere for the night. The impression that I got was that they thought it would assist in furthering the relationship rather like some misguided ladies who want to get pregnant thinking that having a child would bolster a shaky partnership. Almost without exception the ladies to whom I explained that I thought it too soon for close intimacy declined further invitations for us to spend more time together. Go figure.

Much has been made of BGs who cater for foreigners in this thread but no mention has been made of all the brothels and/or pickup bars countrywide that cater for Thais. Practically every village has one, staffed by a dozen ladies or so. Nana, SC and Pattaya are merely the tip of the iceberg. Of course there is no prostitution in Pattaya as announced by a lady politician after being conducted around the tourist spots, including Soi 6, by the BiB. 55555 Thailand in denial as usual.

Thailand is the only country that I know of in which the Government warns of underage sex and sends out police patrols on Valentines Day to prevent any such naughtiness. Do they collect on the spot fines I wonder?

I will have no truck with any organised religion and particularly those with a mantra that says sex is solely for the procreation of children. I hold that sex is a fun event for both the participants (if it isn't then you're doing it wrong), Thais as we all know love sanook, so that hanging Western mores on the natives is little short of arrogance.

[Texpat]

Sex feels good.

Is this unique to Thailand or is only better because she's lithe, dusky and willing?

Perhaps it's a measure of men's image of women they'd like to rub against...

[cognos]

Sex feels good.

Is this unique to Thailand or is only better because she's lithe, dusky and willing?

Perhaps it's a measure of men's image of women they'd like to rub against...

viva la difference! from The Doors 1967.. " .. who will pluck that dusky jewel...Hello, I love you won't you tell me your name.. in all seriousness though, opposites attract, and opposite colors attract. the world will gradually meld into one as more and more marriages are bi- cultural..and there would be less racism one would presume..on the lighter side again..the first Thai gf tells me before I met her in person ( after 4 months of internet chatting ) " I am sorry" Why?.. she replied.." because I am darker than in the pictures I sent you". I told her that was okay, don't worry

[Texpat]

quite noble of your fine self.

How could you possibly stomach such a black woman?

(that's a joke)

[CFIT]

yes men are different..we are more dispensable than women..

Women are precious, indeed.

I can muster 50,000,000 to 500,000,000 sperm in one go -- enough to repopulate the entire planet in two (really good) days. I can reload in a matter of hours.

Women are born with a finite number of eggs. At birth, a woman has around 1 to 2 million eggs. At puberty, only around 400,000 remain. Throughout the reproductive life span, from puberty until menopause, women lose about 1,000 eggs each month.

Women can only get pregnant once or twice a year giving birth to usually one or two at a time. I can, theoretically, get every female on the planet pregnant every day.

(all statements herein made at risk of doing mathematics in public.)

Yeah , you and 3 billion other men ..That's why womyn are the more valuable sex.

btw your education is a little .. sensationalized on the female reproductive system. Human females don't have millions of eggs, and only one is lost through menstruation each month.

I think what a lot of DoT (Defenders of Thai) do is project their own more upon the culture,

"Oh No, Thai women aren't more promiscuous, to say so is detrimental, an insult so I have to say the opposite. .." Well of course they are , just open your eyes, selling sex for gain is more than socially acceptable , it's encouraged. As is marrying foreigners your culture detests, ( which is called Gold Digging where I'm from..)

It's YOUR cultural mores, ans sexual double standards foisted on Thailand that make this,

" bad."

Edited June 14, 2009 by CFIT