10 Killed In Thai Mosque Attack

[Plus]

he Straits Times' initial take

Why don't you post link to comments from New Light of Myanmar, too?

Three troublesome provinces are not Democrat base, for starters, and I don't know why one should overlook the possibility of rogue elements in the military trying to destabilise the situation for their own ends. This latest attack, if done by rogue paramilitaries, would fit very nicely with the idea of blaming Democrats for ineffective policy.

The name of Sae Daeng immediately springs to mind but I'm sure there are others who can be called on to do dirty jobs for Bangkok politicians.

[justanothercybertosser]

he Straits Times' initial take

Why don't you post link to comments from New Light of Myanmar, too?

Three troublesome provinces are not Democrat base, for starters, and I don't know why one should overlook the possibility of rogue elements in the military trying to destabilise the situation for their own ends. This latest attack, if done by rogue paramilitaries, would fit very nicely with the idea of blaming Democrats for ineffective policy.

The name of Sae Daeng immediately springs to mind but I'm sure there are others who can be called on to do dirty jobs for Bangkok politicians.

Rubbish.

Sae Daeng has no post commanding any significant amount of troops, and no influence whatsoever in Army Region 4. I would advise you to research who finances the most rabid Buddhist militias, and to whom the leaders of those militias are close to, which actually is a rather controverse subject in military circles (to which you obviously have no more access to other than watching them on telly).

The Southern provinces have had massive Democrat led patronage networks, until Thaksin started shaking them up.

And comparing The Straights Times with Burma's propaganda rag has now again disqualified you from any sensible discussion.

[TAWP]

Rubbish.

Sae Daeng has no post commanding any significant amount of troops, and no influence whatsoever in Army Region 4.

A note is that if the attack was carried out with only 3 people (two shooters, one driver), he hardly have to be able to command any troops anywhere, that can be a road-trip of friends out so stir up some trouble.

(Not saying that this is what happened, just saying that the argument used against it in this case was severely flawed.)

[sriracha john]

Sae Daeng has no post commanding any significant amount of troops, and no influence whatsoever in Army Region 4.

just saying that the argument used against it in this case was severely flawed.)

par for the course...

[Plus]

Sae Daeng has no post commanding any significant amount of troops, and no influence whatsoever in Army Region 4.

Like Tawp said, it could have been a roadtrip. That would explaing why the MO was so different.

The Southern provinces have had massive Democrat led patronage networks, until Thaksin started shaking them up.

What do you mean? For ages Wan Muhhamad Nor Matha from Chavalit's party was in political control there, not Democrats. He has lost big in 2005 elections but Dems lost control of those areas again in 2007.

Not to mention that when Thaksin started shaking things up the whole region went up in flames in a space of several months.

And comparing The Straights Times with Burma's propaganda rag has now again disqualified you from any sensible discussion.

And Straights Times is not a Singapore propaganda rag????

[hammered]

I think McCargo wrote an interesting paper on the networks down south that Thaksin shook up (with consequences that last until today and no doubt longer) although the ones he reffered to were not labelled Democrat

[Datsun240Z]

The difference is people people killing in the name of religion are more passionate and and willing to kill and die as they think there is some great reward waiting for them. Buddhists and atheists in general are non confrontational when it comes to bodily harm and avoid fighting whenever possible. Just look at how Thailand has handled the South, George Bush even offered troops and Thailand declined saying they would rather find a peaceful solution which is a pipe dream.

Indeed. Deploy some U.S troops, since they actually do something, and have more advanced army than the Thai.

[jayboy]

Sae Daeng has no post commanding any significant amount of troops, and no influence whatsoever in Army Region 4.

just saying that the argument used against it in this case was severely flawed.)

<< flame snipped>>

Please do not flame, particularly in this interesting discussion.

Personally (and again placing emphasis on history and context) I would have thought the likelihood of Sae Daeng's involvement is highly improbable -completely out of his theatre of operations.

[blaze]

Sae Daeng has no post commanding any significant amount of troops, and no influence whatsoever in Army Region 4.

just saying that the argument used against it in this case was severely flawed.)

<< flame snipped>>

Please do not flame, particularly in this interesting discussion.

Personally (and again placing emphasis on history and context) I would have thought the likelihood of Sae Daeng's involvement is highly improbable -completely out of his theatre of operations.

Thanks Jayboy--- appreciated

[justanothercybertosser]

Rubbish.

Sae Daeng has no post commanding any significant amount of troops, and no influence whatsoever in Army Region 4.

A note is that if the attack was carried out with only 3 people (two shooters, one driver), he hardly have to be able to command any troops anywhere, that can be a road-trip of friends out so stir up some trouble.

(Not saying that this is what happened, just saying that the argument used against it in this case was severely flawed.)

The logistics of such an attack is far beyond a "road-trip" with friends trying to "stir up some trouble". It needs intelligence, local support networks, intimate knowledge of local conditions, etc.

To even entertain the thought of Sae Daeng being involved here just because he is involved with the Reds is lunacy.

[justanothercybertosser]

Like Tawp said, it could have been a roadtrip. That would explaing why the MO was so different.

Conflicts evolve, and so do tactics.

Similar incidents in which mosques have been targeted, yet not with such body counts, have happened in the past. And the same way, army attributed them to insurgents, while more neutral sources have pointed at groups such as Ruam Thai performing revenge attacks.

[sriracha john]

Rubbish.

lunacy.

Please do not flame

Thanks Jayboy--- appreciated

I agree, too.

Edited June 10, 2009 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Female Issan worker murdered in Yala

A female labourer was killed and two other workers seriously wounded in an attack on a water drainage construction site in Ban Ba-ngoey Halor, Tambon Lammai, in Yala’s Muang district early on Wednesday afternoon.

Two gunmen on two motorcycles opened fired on the workers while they were sitting down having lunch, Yala Deputy Police Chief Police Colonel Chaithat Inthanuchit said.

Chiraporn Arsakij, 25, of Sawang Daen Din district in northeastern Sakhon Nakhon, was shot twice in the body and died at the scene. The two injured workers were rushed to Yala hospital. They were employed by Abadi Construction Co in Yaha district of Yala.

Chaithat said witnesses told police the gunmen left behind leaflets stating, “You killed innocent people, I must kill you.”

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-10

[sriracha john]

Warrants out for 3 Wanted for Mosque Massacre, Teacher Killings

Police in Narathiwat have issued arrest warrants for three suspects in recent insurgent attacks in the southernmost province, with a 30,000-baht bounty offered for information leading to their arrests.

Police Colonel Nitinai Langyanai, Superintendent of Ra-nage police station in Narathiwat, said arrest warrants have been issued for three suspects in the fatal shooting of two teachers in Janae District. A reward of 30,000 baht has been offered for information leading to their arrests.

An initial investigation led the police to believe that the suspects could have been involved in attacks at a teashop in Ra-nage District, a municipal office in Yee-Ngor District and this week's massacre at Al Furakon Mosque in Jor Airong District.

Police Colonel Nitinai said he is convinced the suspects are members of the militant group that operates in the Ra-nage, Yee-Ngor, and Bajoh districts.

He added that police are examining bullet casings found at the sites of recent shootings to determine whether the attacks were carried out by the same group.

-- Tan Network 2009-06-10

[sriracha john]

He added that police are examining bullet casings found at the sites of recent shootings to determine whether the attacks were carried out by the same group.

Forensics can establish a connection.

People that would have no qualms about murdering grade school teachers would be capable of murdering just about anybody at anytime.

[Plus]

Drive up to a mosque, spray bullets into the crowd, jump in a truck and drive away. Local commanders can provide cover and intellegence based on personal relationships rather than on chain of command.

[justanothercybertosser]

Drive up to a mosque, spray bullets into the crowd, jump in a truck and drive away. Local commanders can provide cover and intellegence based on personal relationships rather than on chain of command.

You obviously have never been in the three southern provinces.

The area is covered with army, rangers, village defense forces, and whatever militia you can even think of. Any attack by anybody needs a highly sophisticated operation with support forces, safe houses, etc.

This is not the movies, where Rambo just waltzes in and out.

[Plus]

Like I said, the cover could have been provided by local commanders sympathetic to the cause. I don't think outsiders would have had any difficulty moving around if they had their uniforms on and some sort of an officer in charge - I'm pretty sure they weren't wearing ski masks all the way through.

I'm not saying it was Sae Dang's gang at all. I'm saying that the possibility of outsiders sabotaging the govt work should not be ruled out.

Or "insiders" going rogue and dishing out justice themselves.

Or even militants getting peaved off with the whole village.

Whoever has done it - locals blame it on the govt and it's a serious blow to whatever trust Democrats were trying to build. There are two obvious beneficiaries - insurgents and PTP. Both are fuc_king terrorists if you ask me, and there should be no negotiations.

[sriracha john]

ISOC links outsiders to mosque massacre

The Internal Security Operations Command has linked Monday's mosque attack with a group of strangers spotted at Ai Payae village just before the massacre, a high-ranking ISOC source says. The source at the ISOC's Region 4 said the outsiders were brought into the village in Cho Airong district in Narathiwat where the massacre took place on Sunday by local teenagers. They could be connected with the shooting on Monday night, which killed 10 people and injured 12, the source said.

Spent bullets retrieved from the scene showed that two M-16 assault rifles were used and the weapons could have been those also used in an attack on a mosque in Sungai Padi district, the source said. One villager was killed in that attack on June 2, 2007.

The presence of the outsiders in the village is in line with the security agency's concern that a new generation of militants sent for special training overseas could carry out attacks.

The training discarded religious beliefs and faith and made it easy for the trainees to carry out attacks in religious establishments, according to the ISOC intelligence report.

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-11

[sriracha john]

Former 4th Army Region Chief: Southern Unrest Linked to Separatism

The former 4th Army Region Chief has advised the government and the Army to negotiate with leaders of the militant groups based overseas in an effort to seek solutions to the ongoing insurgency in the Deep South. He also said the separatist ideology is the real root of the crisis.

Former 4th Army Region Chief General Kitti Rattanachaya said the insurgency in the three southernmost provinces is the work of separatist movements.

General Kiti said he believes the groups are masterminded by the key leaders outside the country, particularity those taking shelter in Malaysia, the Middle East and Europe.

He said the rebels are trying to escalate the degree of violence beyond the Army's control in an effort to lead to massive human rights violations and intervention by the United Nations.

The retired general said he had made the same suggestion to the Thaksin administration in 2004, but was ignored.

Authorities claim the problem stems from betrayals in the drug trafficking ring, unfair treatment of state officials and the conflicts of interest which are not the entire cause of the crisis.

He also criticized ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra for viewing southern insurgents as pathetic bandits, saying his attitude over the southern unrest resulted in the worsening of the problem.

General Kiti also advised the current government and the Army improve their affairs and hold negotiation with the key members of the insurgency groups and their allies based overseas.

The general also urged both the government and the militant groups to adhere His Majesty's advice to understand and reach out in trying to resolve the ongoing conflict.

-- Tan Network 2009-06-10

[sriracha john]

He added that police are examining bullet casings found at the sites of recent shootings to determine whether the attacks were carried out by the same group.

Forensics can establish a connection.

People that would have no qualms about murdering grade school teachers would be capable of murdering just about anybody at anytime.

*UPDATE: I amend the above statement to read:

People that would have no qualms about murdering 8-month pregnant grade school teachers would be capable of murdering just about anybody at anytime.

Arrest warrants issued, bounty offered for Narathiwat insurgents

NARATHIWAT, June 10 (TNA) – Arrest warrants have been issued for three presumed insurgents involved in a series of violent attacks during the past week, including the killing of two teachers in the restive southern province of Narathiwat, police said on Wednesday.

Pol. Col. Nitinai Langyanai, superintendent of Narathiwat’s Ra-ngae Police station, said that the three suspected insurgents are identified as Muhammadsuni Ta, Masa-e Hayeedeeyodeeya and Amran Ming, all of whom live in the area.

Col. Nitinai said police investigation reported that Muhammadsuni had shot teacher Warunee Nawaka to death, while the other two suspects killed teacher Atcharaporn Thepsorn in the eighth-month of her pregnancy.

Warunee and Atcharaporn were among six teachers who were travelling home in a pick-up truck last Tuesday when they were assaulted by gunmen disguised as soldiers.

A Bt30,000 bounty will be rewarded to those who can give information leading to the arrest of each suspect, Col. Nitinai said.

The Ra-gnae police chief added that the three suspects were also involved in a tea shop shooting incident the Ra-ngae district, also on Tuesday last week, as well as the shooting of defence volunteers on patrol in Yi-ngo district last Sunday.

The three suspects, Col. Niyinai said, were among the group of heavily-armed insurgents who burst into a mosque in Cho-airong district through its back entrance on Monday night and opened fire on about 50 worshippers, killing 11 and wounding a dozen.

Col. Nitinai added series of attacks in Ra-ngae, Yi-ngo and Cho-airong were believed to be carried out by the same group of suspected insurgents. Police are waiting for the lab analysis of the bullets found in each attacks and more arrest warrants may be later issued if it was proved that the bullets came from the same weapons.

-- TNA 2009-06-10

Edited June 11, 2009 by sriracha john

[Plus]

So it's the militants getting bolder and bolder.

Or it could be Democrat trained secret kill squad sent by Abhisit who was under the influence of the army.

Or it could be Buddhist militia.

>>>

Bottom line - the govt must overcome the perception that was the army behind it, no matter what they truth is, perception is what matters at the moment.

[jayboy]

Brian McCartan comments in Asia Times

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/KF10Ae01.html

I am no admirer of the Thai military but McCartan's "possible motive" (see extract below) strikes me as somewhat paranoid.

"To be sure, the killing of Muslims by insurgents is not new, where those suspected of serving as informants or working in cahoots with the government are known to have been targeted. But certain analysts suggest that the shooting of devotees while at prayer in a mosque would be unusual to the insurgency's established tactics.

One possible motive could be Abhisit's continued pressure on the army to bring security operations under civilian control, repeal martial law and push for reconciliation and justice in the region. The Bangkok Post reported this week that army commander General Anupong Paochinda said any replacement of martial law with a new security law for the southernmost provinces should be carefully considered. Anupong inspected the scene of the mosque massacre on Tuesday and was scheduled to hold meetings with security officials.

Although Anupong said that current allotments for security in the region were sufficient, there is rising criticism that some military officials might prefer that the conflict escalate to justify sustained budgets and big-ticket equipment purchases. Procurement plans for new hardware were put on hold this month after the military's budget for 2010 was cut by about 10 billion baht (US$291.8 million) due to shortfalls in government tax revenues."

[justanothercybertosser]

Brian McCartan comments in Asia Times

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/KF10Ae01.html

I am no admirer of the Thai military but McCartan's "possible motive" (see extract below) strikes me as somewhat paranoid.

"To be sure, the killing of Muslims by insurgents is not new, where those suspected of serving as informants or working in cahoots with the government are known to have been targeted. But certain analysts suggest that the shooting of devotees while at prayer in a mosque would be unusual to the insurgency's established tactics.

One possible motive could be Abhisit's continued pressure on the army to bring security operations under civilian control, repeal martial law and push for reconciliation and justice in the region. The Bangkok Post reported this week that army commander General Anupong Paochinda said any replacement of martial law with a new security law for the southernmost provinces should be carefully considered. Anupong inspected the scene of the mosque massacre on Tuesday and was scheduled to hold meetings with security officials.

Although Anupong said that current allotments for security in the region were sufficient, there is rising criticism that some military officials might prefer that the conflict escalate to justify sustained budgets and big-ticket equipment purchases. Procurement plans for new hardware were put on hold this month after the military's budget for 2010 was cut by about 10 billion baht (US$291.8 million) due to shortfalls in government tax revenues."

I doubt the reason cited about Abhisit's so called ideas to bring the conflict under civilian control. Abhisit is an experienced spin politician, what he says does is often the exact opposite of what he does. And by now it has been proven that even in his own party he has very limited power, and even less in the state.

Nevertheless, the conflict in the South is indeed big business for many officers. There are the obvious underground businesses, but also massive official and unofficial funds of which huge sums can be funneled off. Additionally, service down South is a fast track to rapid promotion. Officers have also been caught selling intelligence to the insurgents, the highest ranked i know off is a full colonel, a career officer from Chulalomklao academy.

[Plus]

Abhisit is an experienced spin politician, what he says does is often the exact opposite of what he does.

Possibly, if you believe in red propaganda.

Otherwise he's pretty much stuck to his guns. The bus affair was a big test for him and he didn't flinch a muscle, so far.

[blaze]

Bottom line - the govt must overcome the perception that was the army behind it, no matter what they truth is, perception is what matters at the moment.

Judging from the government's performance re the Rohingyas, I think the reputation of the military is in safe hands. But if it does turn out that military people were involved- perhaps the recent Tak Bai court ruling can be trotted out to, if not exonerate them, then at least deflect punitive action. .

[Plus]

i don't think Muslims have any sympathies for Rohignyas, I don't think they care very much, just like the rest of the country.

[seri thai]

So it's the militants getting bolder and bolder.

Or it could be Democrat trained secret kill squad sent by Abhisit who was under the influence of the army.

Or it could be Buddhist militia.

>>>

Bottom line - the govt must overcome the perception that was the army behind it, no matter what they truth is, perception is what matters at the moment.

.....and that is ISOC's remit....

[Datsun240Z]

Time to call Rambo.

[sriracha john]

Non-discriminatory murders going on today in the Deep South...

Muslim man killed in drive-by shooting in Pattani

Pattani - A Muslim man was killed in a drive-by shooting here Thursday afternoon.

Police said Muhamadhayaib Samae, 41, was shot dead while riding his motorcycle on a village road in Moo 8 village in Tambon Plonghoy of Kapho district at 1:20 pm.

Police said four men on two motorcycles chased after the man and shot him with an M-16 assault rifle.

-- The Nation 2009-06-11

==============================================================================

Buddhist couple killed in drive-by shooting in Narathiwat

Narathiwat - A Buddhist couple were killed in a drive-by shooting in this southern border province when they were selling fresh foods Thursday.

Police said the couple - Pongsakorn Amarin, 31, and his wife, Duangkamol, 30, were shot and killed in their pick-up truck at 12:45 pm in Chanae district.

Police said they were entering Kumung village in Tambon Chang Phuek when insurgents on another pick-up truck fired at them with an M-16 assault rifle and 9 mm pistol.

Duangkamol's mother, Yindee Polpakdee, 55, also in the truck, was severely injured.

-- The Nation 2009-06-11