English Camps

[bails]

From time to time a number of schools in my area hold an english camp over a period of 2 days.Usually about 50 kids are involved and the camp is held at the most centrally located school.I am always asked to attend and help out as there are very few other native english speakers in the district.It is something i really enjoy doing but as i do not have a work permit, would i be breaking the law by attending these camps?

If someone did have a work permit and helped out at an english camp would they be breaking the law by attending the english camp if it was held at a location different from where their work permit permits them to work?

I would appreciate your opinions.

[rolypie]

As you say you have been asked to help if no money changes hands its volunteer work so no problem so i am lead to believe, i did a similar thing at the local orphanage.

[TerryLH]

Volunteer work requires a WP - to be legal.

WP's are location specific. Work at other locations is illegal.

[PeaceBlondie]

TerryLH is right.

[rolypie]

I stand corrected!

[Scott]

I would be interested to know if they have a definition of "volunteer" in Thailand, especially as it relates to situations such as this.

I've done a fair amount of volunteer work, but I've always been careful not to an integral part of the planning or implementing. If there is an English Camp and a foreigner comes by and spends time with the kids, talks to them, but doesn't direct any activities etc., would they be legally considered a 'volunteer'.

I've had guests come to speak to my classes. They weren't paid, they didn't do any administrative work and had no responsibility for the class. They simply talked about their home country or their profession etc. Are they volunteers? (In these cases, all were friends/relatives--not strangers).

Most schools, especially some of the more rural ones can use all the help they can get and I am just wondering how far one can go without running afoul of the law.

[bails]

I would be interested to know if they have a definition of "volunteer" in Thailand, especially as it relates to situations such as this.

I've done a fair amount of volunteer work, but I've always been careful not to an integral part of the planning or implementing. If there is an English Camp and a foreigner comes by and spends time with the kids, talks to them, but doesn't direct any activities etc., would they be legally considered a 'volunteer'.

I've had guests come to speak to my classes. They weren't paid, they didn't do any administrative work and had no responsibility for the class. They simply talked about their home country or their profession etc. Are they volunteers? (In these cases, all were friends/relatives--not strangers).

Most schools, especially some of the more rural ones can use all the help they can get and I am just wondering how far one can go without running afoul of the law.

I have been thinking exactly the same thing Scott.It would seem to me to be a bit harsh if the volunteer was charged etc and deported for "working" in these circumstances when he/she is only trying to help the kids.However the law is the law and i don,t think i will risk volunteering in the future.

Thanks to those who replied and clarified the matter for me.

[Scott]

This is my completely and totally uneducated guess about what it may mean. I would think that as long as you are not taking on the actual responsibility of someone, you might be OK. I think you could argue that you weren't working or volunteering if you can basically walk away at any time without disrupting something-- ie., making sure you aren't responsible for a group of kids etc.

I was once at an English Camp with our students and not far away (at a National Park) was a group of kids from a rather poor school on an outing. The teachers asked some of us if we could come by in the evening and 'teach' them some songs etc. in English. We did, they had a great time, and I never thought about getting into trouble. We came when we wanted and we left when we felt like it.

[Mario2008]

The problem is not with a definition of volunteering but rather with a very broad definition of what working is.

The working of aliens act (2008) gives the following definition of work:

"work" means engaging in work by

exerting energy or using knowledge

whether or not in consideration of wages

or other benefit;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a58931-.html

Normaly you will get away with it, especialy an English camp where all the local big shots apear. But it is illegal and you could get into trouble. For instance when there is an accident in which you are involved.

[toptuan]

Case in point. Tsunami relief volunteers in 2004 were finally rounded up and deported when the local authorities got tired of them, citing "work permit" violations.

[Scott]

The volunteers during the tsunami were in fact 'working'. And they were around more than a few days. The reason I mentioned not taking on any responsibility or authority in an English Camp is because of the possibility of an accident or something going wrong and you are responsible.

I don't know that simply speaking is 'exerting knowledge' and other than getting a warm fuzzy feeling all over for doing something good, there doesn't seem to be any other benefit.

I am not a lawyer and am only curious as to where the powers-that-be might draw the line.

Anybody know of someone whose been busted for volunteer work (other than the tsunami workers)?

[Ijustwannateach]

I would guess that it rarely happens, but if you made any waves or caused any problems that would be a cheap excuse to get rid of you.

[toptuan]

I wonder about all the farang farmers (who've bought farms in their wives' names) and work them--literally thousands in Isaan, and some quite large farms. They are definitely "exerting energy" and "depriving" national Thais of employment on their farms by doing the work themselves (the intent behind the xenophobic labor laws). I know, despite the fact that many farangs create MORE employment opportunities for Thais through their entrepreneurship.

Technically illegal, also, would you suppose?

[Scott]

I would hope that foreigners wouldn't be scared off from lending some English Language skills to kids at camps because of the Work Permit situation. These are usually short-term camps and it's a great opportunity to interact with some of the local students and instill some motivation and enthusiasm.

Camps are tricky, however, because kids are having fun and doing things which can result in accidents and injuries. That's why I would be careful about assuming any responsibility for a group of kids--especially some you might not know well and they might not be able to understand instructions well.

[Sisaketmike]

From time to time a number of schools in my area hold an english camp over a period of 2 days.Usually about 50 kids are involved and the camp is held at the most centrally located school.I am always asked to attend and help out as there are very few other native english speakers in the district.It is something i really enjoy doing but as i do not have a work permit, would i be breaking the law by attending these camps?

If someone did have a work permit and helped out at an english camp would they be breaking the law by attending the English camp if it was held at a location different from where their work permit permits them to work?

I would appreciate your opinions.

We foreigners need a work permit for all kind of work we are doing. A work permit is only issued for the place you're working at, and it can't be used to work somewhere else, even it's the same job like teaching English., or English camps. I know that there's a lot who're telling you the opposite, but you need to have one.

[YouYouYou]

Yep, it's a tricky one.

Firstly, the WP (point2, P31 in my blue book): "A permit holder shall not engage in the work other than that which is specified in the permit or change the locality or place of work from that which is specified in the permit unless prior permission is obtained from the registrar."

I ran a summer camp (which was mandatory under my contract) when I worked at a Rajabhat and was away at a resort in Kanchanaburi for 2 nights with a bunch of Rajabhat students ... thus I was breaking the law. However, this could also work in favour for you teachers out there who wanna get out of doing it as you can show them this rule in your WP ....just a suggestion LOL.

I 'soon piset' at various language schools, companies, proof read, and write advertisments. I have even been a paid researcher for Chulalongkorn University !! Yup ...breaking the law, but have never felt any heat. I think its all ok to do as long as you don't stick yer neck out too far !