Thailand No Longer A Destination Of Tourists And Expats?

[stacker10]

I been livning in Thailand for 6years,went to Cambodia for almost a year.a shitplace with nothing,no hospital,bad food and not realy friendly people,only one thing was good,u buy 1year visa for around 280dollars but rest like food and infrastructior sucks.The latest year I been in Philippines,wow corruption get a champion,this is the land of no smiles,rip u of every place,shops rental,police,food is shit and everybody is out for your money,much more then Cambodia and Thailand.visa rules ok but immigrations rip u of with all made up fees.I just had to pay exitvisa??500peso and extra tax because I was here more than I year another 33dollars.Thailand is not a perfect place but after being around I want to say Thailand have moral,cultur,great food and the people is not bad,as good as any one else.Next week Im back to Thailand and I will kiss the ground,wow civilsation.

[ChangMaiSausage]

After all of the issues that Thailand has had over the last eighteen months it's bound to effect tourism. I for one feel obliged to visit Thailand due to the wife's family and friends if it was not for them would I visit every year? Yes and No it's a love relationship every time I return from my vacation I say not again I need a break from Thailand let's go somewhere different.

Sri Lanka here I come.....

[Oberkommando]

I been livning in Thailand for 6years,went to Cambodia for almost a year.a shitplace with nothing,no hospital,bad food and not realy friendly people,only one thing was good,u buy 1year visa for around 280dollars but rest like food and infrastructior sucks.The latest year I been in Philippines,wow corruption get a champion,this is the land of no smiles,rip u of every place,shops rental,police,food is shit and everybody is out for your money,much more then Cambodia and Thailand.visa rules ok but immigrations rip u of with all made up fees.I just had to pay exitvisa??500peso and extra tax because I was here more than I year another 33dollars.Thailand is not a perfect place but after being around I want to say Thailand have moral,cultur,great food and the people is not bad,as good as any one else.Next week Im back to Thailand and I will kiss the ground,wow civilsation.

I find the Cambodians much more friendly than the Thais for the most part and the food in Phnom Penh is excellent. Wine is abundant and reasonably priced, you can get really good Western food for cheap and they of course have the French influence for breads and pastries amongst other things.

Another thing I like is that you can apply for a Cambodian visa online now so takes the hassle out of doing it on arrival.

For a country absolutely destroyed and almost a third of its population wiped out you have to admire the will of the people to put that behind them and rebuild.

It's ironic you should mention Thai 'culture' as most of it was directly stolen from the Khmer; language, sport, dancing, dress, music and the list goes on.

As to your preposterous comment about Thai morals I refer you to the example of the Thai sex-industry which is the World's largest and most prevalent in all the World.

[Oberkommando]

Westerners to Thailand forget to realize the amount of Asian tourists Thailand now gets - number one destination in Asia.

Hong Kong, China and Malaysia all get more visitors than Thailand. So not even number one in the region.

[Ulysses G.]

As to your preposterous comment about Thai morals I refer you to the example of the Thai sex-industry which is the World's largest and most prevalent in all the World.

So what? In Thailand most sex workers have chosen this type of work because they can make a lot of money and they are treated fairly well. In Camboda most of the girls are sex slaves shipped in from Vietnam and they are frequently beaten and tortured and the Cambodians could care less.

Cambodia is no Shangri-la.

By the way, there is no way that Malaysia gets more visitors than Thailand and you are probably "mistaken" about the other places as well.

[Oberkommando]

As to your preposterous comment about Thai morals I refer you to the example of the Thai sex-industry which is the World's largest and most prevalent in all the World.

So what? In Thailand most sex workers have chosen this type of work because they can make a lot of money and they are treated fairly well. In Camboda most of the girls are sex slaves shipped in from Vietnam and they are frequently beaten and tortured and the Cambodians could care less.

Cambodia is no Shangri-la.

By the way, there is no way that Malaysia gets more visitors than Thailand and you are probably "mistaken" about the other places as well.

Malaysia gets approx. 21 million visitors a year. Thailand only around 15 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_Rankings

Always helps to be informed of the facts.

[beechguy]

Both VN and Cambodia still charge for visas, Thailand doesn't.

You really find that to be a big issue?

SoCal forgot to mention that the "no charge for visas" is a temporary move designed to try to get back tourists. The immigration dept. was no doubt told to do this or else..........

Cambodia is the most visa and expat friendly country in the region......Lancelot forgot to mention that.

In terms of visas and expat friendliness, both Cambodia and the Philippines are better than Thailand.

Thailand will always be a destination for tourists and expats, but other countries in the region are becoming more and more desirable.

Yes, he also forgot to mention unlimted, free, 30 day "Visa Exempt" entries if entering by air. Also, it's only a 1000 Baht for a 60 day Tourist visa, now that they are charging again. Considering a tourist is paying several hundred dollars for a plane ticket to get here, lodging of some kind, food, and entertainment, I doubt 1000 Baht is much of a deterrent for many.

Edited June 10, 2009 by beechguy

[Ulysses G.]

Malaysia gets approx. 21 million visitors a year. Thailand only around 15 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_Rankings

Malaysia gets more visitors than Thailand or Singapore even though Bangkok and Singapore get more visitors than KL? More proof that one just can not trust wikipedia!

[Oberkommando]

Malaysia gets approx. 21 million visitors a year. Thailand only around 15 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_Rankings

Malaysia gets more visitors than Thailand or Singapore even though Bangkok and Singapore get more visitors than KL? More proof that one just can not trust wikipedia!

Indeed, but the statistics are not from Wikipedia they are from the U.N. World Tourism Barometer.

Malaysia had around 6 million more tourist arrivals than Thailand in 2007.

[classix]

There will be positive changes here in the future.

Competition is a wonderful thing.

For a long time Thailand has been the big boy on the local block.

Now some of the other nations want a bigger piece of the tourism pie.

The powers that be will eventually notice this.

I even think that immigration and some of the silly anti-foreigner laws will change for the better.

Just give it time

i am with you.i hope my daughter can see it

[bonobo]

As to your preposterous comment about Thai morals I refer you to the example of the Thai sex-industry which is the World's largest and most prevalent in all the World.

 Not quite true.  Estimates of the numbers of prostitutes in Thailand run from 800,000 to 2,000,000.  India has 2,800,000, so the industry in India, at least, is larger.

Thailand is most likely the largest destination, though, for sex tourism by foreigners, but I have not read any such numbers.

[abdulrahman]

As to your preposterous comment about Thai morals I refer you to the example of the Thai sex-industry which is the World's largest and most prevalent in all the World.

 Not quite true.  Estimates of the numbers of prostitutes in Thailand run from 800,000 to 2,000,000.  India has 2,800,000, so the industry in India, at least, is larger.

Thailand is most likely the largest destination, though, for sex tourism by foreigners, but I have not read any such numbers.

My math is not very good:how many hooker per capita in Thailand and ow many in India?

[BigSnake]

My Bias opinion Thailand is still by far the best travel destination for tourist/expats, why>main reason visa on arrival for most countries, many first class hotels at fairly reasonable prices, excellent food, good flight connections to most all parts of the world, Oh yeah, a few bumps in the road>yellow shirts close airport, however; no tourists or expats were hurt or kill to my knowledge>old red shirts block the ASEAN Conference>again all tourists/expats were pretty must left along a little inconvenience but otherwise all ok, our host in Viet Nam, Malaysia(to many towels heads for me)Hong Kong, Cambodia have a lot of work to do to get on par with Thailand. Oh well just my old Thailan Hand bias Opinion.

[Busy]

I agree witht the OP ... from a business perspective the issues here are not huge (rules regarding land ownership, politics, traffic, strong Baht v European currencies, parasitic police force) but with property prices falling in the traditional ex-pat business areas such as Hong Kong and Singapore and with the real growth being in India, China, Africa, why would new businesses want to set up here?

Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, India and maybe Sri Lanka, Ghana, Botswana will be the favoured destinations in the future. And China will of course be a big magnet for business.

There's also the issue of language ... which could be bigger than all the other issues for many businesses? The universal communication tool of international businesses is emails written in English. India, Malaysia, Singapore and Hong Kong have higher standards of English. Also, many international business people are only here for 2-3 years - and learning Thai is a big investment in time, especially when you consider that Thai is no use outside Thailand.

Having said all that ... it's still much better here than in the UK!

I used to say that as well,but if you had a lot of money would you still be here?

England is the best county in the world!

[Busy]

I have heard from some expats and tourists that Thailand is not longer as much desired than before as it is over commercialized and because of political turmoil.Is Thailand losing its magic touch?

Some say that Vietnam and Cambodia are becoming the new "Lands of Smiles". Any thoughts?

I spent a few weeks on the eastern seaboard, Koh Samet in March. I must say that no one seemed to like it. Only negative comments and lot's of "last time we come here" stuff from people who'd been coming out there for many years. These were not sex tourists either. Normal middle class holidaymakers. Germans, Turks, Brits, Danes and Dutch.

It was mainly due to the attitude of the locals and businesses towards the tourists. Also the state of the place. Very grubby.

No one cares about the political turmoil.

I suspect that European and US holidaymakers will be staying closer to home in the future anyway, due to money problems.

Don't read this as a dig at Thailand, just what people were saying to me last time I was in a destination area.

Yeah,i agree too.

Things have changed a lot since 2004,it has gotten a tad bit boring lately.

Myself i am married and came to Thailand with a small fortune and it was fun at the time,but like most it doesn't last forever.

I know lots of people in the same possition as me and they are biding time and saving up to move elsewhere.

It just gets a little boring with all the visa rules changing and the labour office changing the rules all the time.One year it's this amount the next year it another amount,what next.

Know one can honestly say they enjoy living like this from year or should i say month to month.

Why do people really put up with it all i don't know,11 years has gone by and it has been wasted.

If only...........

I don't hate people,i just don't like them!

[patklang]

As to your preposterous comment about Thai morals I refer you to the example of the Thai sex-industry which is the World's largest and most prevalent in all the World.

Not quite true. Estimates of the numbers of prostitutes in Thailand run from 800,000 to 2,000,000. India has 2,800,000, so the industry in India, at least, is larger.

Thailand is most likely the largest destination, though, for sex tourism by foreigners, but I have not read any such numbers.

That sounds way off to me.As a guide line only,there are approx 65,000,000 thais and half are women approx.So 32,000,000 are female and half are adults,so 16,000,000 are female adults,so 10% are pros,total bullshit mate.You also stated that these are for the foreigners,so how many thai men have their own pros???.Far more than Farang resorts.These are only guide lines but see my point fella.I read once that 1.5% of thai females were pros but that sounds a bit low too.If my maths arent corect dont worry i was only trying to make a point.

[patklang]

As a point of interest the biggest PAYING TOURIST in Pattaya is THAIS

[bonobo]

As to your preposterous comment about Thai morals I refer you to the example of the Thai sex-industry which is the World's largest and most prevalent in all the World.

Not quite true. Estimates of the numbers of prostitutes in Thailand run from 800,000 to 2,000,000. India has 2,800,000, so the industry in India, at least, is larger.

Thailand is most likely the largest destination, though, for sex tourism by foreigners, but I have not read any such numbers.

That sounds way off to me.As a guide line only,there are approx 65,000,000 thais and half are women approx.So 32,000,000 are female and half are adults,so 16,000,000 are female adults,so 10% are pros,total bullshit mate.You also stated that these are for the foreigners,so how many thai men have their own pros???.Far more than Farang resorts.These are only guide lines but see my point fella.I read once that 1.5% of thai females were pros but that sounds a bit low too.If my maths arent corect dont worry i was only trying to make a point.

Some put the figure higher.  A 2004 estimate by Dr. Nitet Tinnakul from Chulalongkorn University gives a total of 2.8 million sex workers in Thailand, including 2 million women, 20,000 adult males and 800,000 minors under the age of 18.

But say the number is in the 800,000 to 2,000,000 range. Pick a number in the middle:  1,400,000.  If the above figures from Dr. Tinnakul are representative, that means 400,000 are minors and 10,000 are men.  That means 990,000 are adult women.  With approximately 28% of the popuation being under 18, that means there are approximately 23,000,000 adult women in Thailand.  If 990,000 ar in fact prostitutes (which includes women in brothels, walking the streets, in high-end massage parlors, escorts, and any other form of full-time or part-time prostitution, then approximately 4% of the Thai adult female population is involved with prostitution.  That still is rather high, but certainly within the realm of reasonable estimation.

[borodave]

I have heard from some expats and tourists that Thailand is not longer as much desired than before as it is over commercialized

People have been saying this for years. And will continue to say it for years to come.

True.

Laos is up and coming as there improve there ways towards ferang but it is still a bit sleepy for most ferang

[barrybike]

laos was named the top tourist destination for 2009.......but i still like thailand more than anywhere in the world

[polecat]

As a point of interest the biggest PAYING TOURIST in Pattaya is THAIS

That's only because the sex tourists are all now sexpats.

[timinchina]

I have heard from some expats and tourists that Thailand is not longer as much desired than before as it is over commercialized and because of political turmoil.Is Thailand losing its magic touch?

Some say that Vietnam and Cambodia are becoming the new "Lands of Smiles". Any thoughts?

Anybody who calls Vietnam the "land of smiles" has clearly never been to that country.

Land of agressivity and greed fits better. I only go there when I have no choice and can't send anybody else.

And all the peoples complaining about double standards and pricing for foreigners in Thailand should go check Vietnam where it's the rule and not the exception. Believe me you definitely don't feel welcome there as a foreigner.

Friendliest people my friends and I have met in S E Asia were from Saigon,male and female.

[waza]

Hmmm how many of them are pensioners, grandmothers disabled ect?

[HankChinasky]

I have heard from some expats and tourists that Thailand is not longer as much desired than before as it is over commercialized and because of political turmoil.Is Thailand losing its magic touch?

Some say that Vietnam and Cambodia are becoming the new "Lands of Smiles". Any thoughts?

Anybody who calls Vietnam the "land of smiles" has clearly never been to that country.

Land of agressivity and greed fits better. I only go there when I have no choice and can't send anybody else.

And all the peoples complaining about double standards and pricing for foreigners in Thailand should go check Vietnam where it's the rule and not the exception. Believe me you definitely don't feel welcome there as a foreigner.

Friendliest people my friends and I have met in S E Asia were from Saigon,male and female.

Wow! You must have met the 0.01% of the Vietnamese population then.

Seriously, they must be the most aggressive and hateful people on earth toward foreigners.

I agree that they are nicer in south Vietnam than in the north but still...

I'd rather cut my left nut than live in that country.

Cambodia on the other hand will be a very nice alternative to Thailand in a few years time.

[Jungian]

To spite what has happened politically and I know many people are blaming the shutdown of the airport for lack of tourism but it is off season right now and the world economy is shot in general. Unemployment in the USA is higher now then during the "Great Depression" there are literally tent cities going up in the USA since the housing market crash so... it's not all about what has been done here although it didn't help matters. It is really easy to get on in this country with little hassle as long as you are obeying the law.

[waza]

I have heard from some expats and tourists that Thailand is not longer as much desired than before as it is over commercialized and because of political turmoil.Is Thailand losing its magic touch?

Some say that Vietnam and Cambodia are becoming the new "Lands of Smiles". Any thoughts?

Anybody who calls Vietnam the "land of smiles" has clearly never been to that country.

Land of agressivity and greed fits better. I only go there when I have no choice and can't send anybody else.

And all the peoples complaining about double standards and pricing for foreigners in Thailand should go check Vietnam where it's the rule and not the exception. Believe me you definitely don't feel welcome there as a foreigner.

Friendliest people my friends and I have met in S E Asia were from Saigon,male and female.

Wow! You must have met the 0.01% of the Vietnamese population then.

Seriously, they must be the most aggressive and hateful people on earth toward foreigners.

I agree that they are nicer in south Vietnam than in the north but still...

I'd rather cut my left nut than live in that country.

Cambodia on the other hand will be a very nice alternative to Thailand in a few years time.

When I visited Vietnam I found the locals to friendly, helpfull and polite, including the police. I think the shine is coming off Thailand because the beaches look great but you cant swim in them, the enviroment is dirty and littered, hotels are expensive, tourist spots are tourist traps and the locals in tourist areas are rude and agressive. EG: Taxi and tu tuk drivers, drunken expats, muggers, tailors, police, time share salespeople, gogo touts and TONIGHT TONIGHT 9PM trucks. Just a thought.

Edited June 18, 2009 by waza

[Ulysses G.]

Wow! You must have met the 0.01% of the Vietnamese population then.

Seriously, they must be the most aggressive and hateful people on earth toward foreigners.

I have lived in Thailand for 20 years and never stopped loving it. I lived in Vietnam for 6 months and just wanted to get out ASAP. It is not bad for traveling, but no place to live if you have any kind of a choice!

[marsteele]

As to your preposterous comment about Thai morals I refer you to the example of the Thai sex-industry which is the World's largest and most prevalent in all the World.

Not quite true. Estimates of the numbers of prostitutes in Thailand run from 800,000 to 2,000,000. India has 2,800,000, so the industry in India, at least, is larger.

Thailand is most likely the largest destination, though, for sex tourism by foreigners, but I have not read any such numbers.

Population: Thailand - 63,038,247 (2008) Sex Workers - 2.8 Million.

Population: India - 1,147,995,904 (2008) Sex Workers - 2.8 Million.

Um do the maths per capita just by looking at the figures to me the sex industry in thailand is far greater.

Dr. Nitet Tinnakul from Chulalongkorn University gives a total of 2.8 million sex workers in Thailand, including 2 million women, 20,000 adult males and 800,000 minors under the age of 18.^[2] One estimate published in 2003 placed the trade at US$ 4.3 billion per year or about three percent of the Thai economy.^[3] It has been suggested for example that there may be as many as 10,000 prostitutes on Koh Samui alone, an island resort destination not usually associated with prostitution, and that at least 10% of tourist dollars may be spent on the sex trade.^[4]

In India, prostitution itself (exchanging sex for money) is not illegal, but the surrounding activities (operating brothels, pimping, soliciting sex etc) are illegal [5].

Prostitution is currently a contentious issue in India. In 2007, the Ministry of Women and Child Development reported presence of 2.8 million sex workers in India, with 35.47 percent of them entering the trade before the age of 18 years ^[1][2]. The number of prostitutes has also doubled in the recent decade ^[3].

Edited June 19, 2009 by marsteele

[marsteele]

Sex tourism is travel to engage in sexual activity with prostitutes.

The World Tourism Organization, a specialized agency of the United Nations, defines sex tourism as "trips organized from within the tourism sector, or from outside this sector but using its structures and networks, with the primary purpose of effecting a commercial sexual relationship by the tourist with residents at the destination".^[1] The U.N. opposes sex tourism citing health, social and cultural consequences for both tourist home countries and destination countries, especially in situations exploiting gender, age, social and economic inequalities in sex tourism destinations.^[1][2][3]

While sex tourism can refer to a variety of commercial sexual activities, agencies and academics^[who?] sometimes also use the terms: adult sex tourism, child sex tourism and female sex tourism to refer to different kinds of sex tourism.^{[citation needed]} Attractions for sex tourists can include reduced costs for services in the destination country, along with either legal prostitution or indifferent law enforcement and access to child prostitution.

Destinations

Several countries have become preferred destinations for sex tourists. These include Thailand,^[4] Brazil,^[5][6] Sri Lanka,^[7][8][9] Dominican Republic,^[10][11] Costa Rica,^[12][13] Cuba,^[14][15] and Kenya,^[16]

An individual city or region can have a particular reputation as a sex tourist destination. Many of these coincide with major red-light districts, and include Amsterdam in the Netherlands; Zona Norte in Tijuana, Mexico; Boy's Town in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico; Fortaleza and Rio de Janeiro in Brazil; Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket in Thailand; Vladivostok in Russian Far East, destination for Asian sex tourists ^[17], and Angeles City^[18], the site of a former United States military base in the province of Pampanga, Philippines

Edited June 19, 2009 by marsteele

[polecat]

I lived in Vietnam for a couple of years back in the early 00s, and had a fantastic time. The reason I've been in Thailand for the last 6 is nothing to do with it being a better place, life is just easier here.

Seriously, one of the great things about Thailand is that you can just rock up with a few baht in your pocket and set yourself up: job, apartment, motorbike or whatever are really easy to sort out and creature comforts are always close at hand.