Impositions On Foreign Tourists

[phetaroi]

Thailand should be focused on making its tourism sector better. That means attracting low income, middle income, and upper income tourists.

Tourists from the US are not discouraged about visiting Thailand because of prices in Thailand. They are put off because of air fares. I have just moved here on a "retirement visa". Many friends want to come to visit at some point, but almost all said it would probably never happen due to the air fare.

Add to that the new ATM fees, double pricing, increase in crimes against foreigners, hefty increases in hotel room fees over the past three years, political instability.......the tourism numbers go down.

I agree that the new ATM fees are disturbing, but it was my impression they were levied by the banks, not the government. In fact, I thought I had read that the government was not in favor of them. Hotel room fees. Just before coming here I spent 17 days traveling around the SW U.S. (one last trip). In some places I was near a major national park, but other times in the middle of nowhere. But I never paid less than $100 per night on a moderate American chain hotel. Yes, Bangkok is similar, but almost anywhere else in the country, hotel fees simply are not comparable. The political situation -- you are absolutely right. Many of my friends cautioned me about coming to such an unstable country.

As stated earlier, eventually the people making the rules will wake up and change their approach to tourism. Until that day happens, the Thai people will suffer, at least those dependent on tourism for their incomes.

I think you over-estimate the number that are suffering. I doubt it is enough to lead to change. In fact, it will take the "suffering" of people making the rules to result in the rules being changed.

[loong]

If a hotel is full, or near full, they charge whatever they want for their rooms, cause people will pay......pretty simple. Just because there are a group of tourists who can't afford a particular hotel isn't a concern for that hotel if they are covering costs and making a targeted profit....

100% correct - all about supply and demand if demand is high and supply is low, prices will increase until a balance is reached.

But also, according to various reports in this forum, with tourism numbers dropping and fewer customers, supply is higher than demand and the reponse has been to increase prices. That results in lowering demand further.

[samran]

If a hotel is full, or near full, they charge whatever they want for their rooms, cause people will pay......pretty simple. Just because there are a group of tourists who can't afford a particular hotel isn't a concern for that hotel if they are covering costs and making a targeted profit....

100% correct - all about supply and demand if demand is high and supply is low, prices will increase until a balance is reached.

But also, according to various reports in this forum, with tourism numbers dropping and fewer customers, supply is higher than demand and the reponse has been to increase prices. That results in lowering demand further.

Depends where you go I guess. I know a hotel owner in Phuket who is enjoying 60% occupancy, and has been even during the 'downturn'. He doesn't need to cut costs, cause the economy isn't effecting him! He's using the slightly lower than normal occupancy to renovate!

As for 'increases' in prices across the board, I find that incredibly hard to believe. I've been on a few holidays of late, and to be honest, there were plenty of deals going to attract people.

So I guess where prices aren't going down, or even going up, it is because they can afford to do that!

[phetaroi]

These examples are totally irrelevant if you live on Thai wages as most aliens do here.

Really, all those farang living in Thong Lor and Phrom Pong and Soi Aree are living on Thai wages? And who do you think the Thai government wants to attract here? Those farang living on Thai wages? I note you say aliens...obviously you are including people from India, Philippines, and so forth. You are not talking about the Japanese, Americans, Aussies, and so forth.

[phetaroi]

i hadn't gone back home(bkk) for a long time, and the last time i went back which was earlier this year.

after went back i feel like..well.. it has not change a bit!

i do under stand what many farang talking here. i even ask my self how any foreigner want to stay in this place!

i don't hate bangkok since it is my home, but i am a kind of disappointed that bangkok doesn't improve anything at all since i left.

soi dog, dog shit, endless road fixing, city overall cleanness, double price system. etc

Even as a new resident here, but frequent visitor since 1987, I understand what you are saying. I have my pet peeves about Bangkok, as well. The stray dogs and cats, yes. The broken up sidewalks. The motorcylces on the sidewalks. The almost impassable sidewalks due to vendors. The children -- who should be in school -- begging on the sidewalks.

things in thailand is not as cheap as before as the country is developed.

True, but remarkably cheaper than in the West.

[loong]

But also, according to various reports in this forum, with tourism numbers dropping and fewer customers, supply is higher than demand and the reponse has been to increase prices. That results in lowering demand further.

Depends where you go I guess. I know a hotel owner in Phuket who is enjoying 60% occupancy, and has been even during the 'downturn'. He doesn't need to cut costs, cause the economy isn't effecting him! He's using the slightly lower than normal occupancy to renovate!

As for 'increases' in prices across the board, I find that incredibly hard to believe. I've been on a few holidays of late, and to be honest, there were plenty of deals going to attract people.

So I guess where prices aren't going down, or even going up, it is because they can afford to do that!

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I should have said some places that people have reported about. I didn't intend to give the impression that prices were rising across the board. In fact there is a current thread re a bar in Jomtien that is apparently quite popular because of low prices and giving the customer what they want.

There have been reports on this forum of places increasing their prices because of having fewer customers. The reasoning is that if they only have half the customers, by doubling the profit margin they will not lose. Of course they finish with even fewer customers.

[JR Texas]

If a hotel is full, or near full, they charge whatever they want for their rooms, cause people will pay......pretty simple. Just because there are a group of tourists who can't afford a particular hotel isn't a concern for that hotel if they are covering costs and making a targeted profit....

100% correct - all about supply and demand if demand is high and supply is low, prices will increase until a balance is reached.

But also, according to various reports in this forum, with tourism numbers dropping and fewer customers, supply is higher than demand and the reponse has been to increase prices. That results in lowering demand further.

It is or should be about supply and demand.......basic economics 101.

Tourism is way down from the same period last year. In response, the government most likely forced the immigration dept. to offer free tourist visas (no doubt a temporary scheme).

[They are still not free because in some cases you have to purchase an exit airline ticket you will likely not even use in order to get the visa.]

The government also tried to encourage the hotels to reduce their prices dramatically and offer large discounts, but that apparently did not happen or it does not look like it to me.

Now we are seeing hotels up for sale all over. Even the top hotels are in trouble. I don't understand their economic thinking, but I am not Thai.

Both of those tactics apparently did not work. Now, in desperation, they are focusing on increasing in-country tourism by Thais.

And, of course, given the current economic climate, that will not work, especially if the hotels continue to keep prices high at a time when demand is low.

[samran]

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I should have said some places that people have reported about. I didn't intend to give the impression that prices were rising across the board. In fact there is a current thread re a bar in Jomtien that is apparently quite popular because of low prices and giving the customer what they want.

There have been reports on this forum of places increasing their prices because of having fewer customers. The reasoning is that if they only have half the customers, by doubling the profit margin they will not lose. Of course they finish with even fewer customers.

understood.

Maybe i should have been clearer as well. Economics being economics, there will be some crazy ideas out there, like upping price when demand is low. May be a bad idea, may be a great idea...

However, if you get into behavioural economics, people to associate 'quality' with higher prices. Ergo, when someone is on holiday (as opposed to long term visa running) and has a bit of money to splash about, there may be the tempation to go for it anyway. How many times have we all been on holiday, seen something and gone 'awww, what the heck'.

Great that that bar in Jomitien is packing them in.

[samran]

1) It is or should be about supply and demand.......basic economics 101.

2) Tourism is way down from the same period last year. In response, the government most likely forced the immigration dept. to offer free tourist visas (no doubt a temporary scheme).

[They are still not free because in some cases you have to purchase an exit airline ticket you will likely not even use in order to get the visa.]

3) The government also tried to encourage the hotels to reduce their prices dramatically and offer large discounts, but that apparently did not happen or it does not look like it to me.

4) Now we are seeing hotels up for sale all over. Even the top hotels are in trouble. I don't understand their economic thinking, but I am not Thai.

5) Both of those tactics apparently did not work. Now, in desperation, they are focusing on increasing in-country tourism by Thais.

6) And, of course, given the current economic climate, that will not work, especially if the hotels continue to keep prices high at a time when demand is low.

1) could be, might not me, who knows. Economics 101 gets shattered to pieces in economics 401 and 501. I should know. Economics 101 has always been an abstract exposition. Barely any economist believes the world works like it does get taught there in 101 (well perhaps it does for Acme Wigets). Those who do, are foolish.

2) Having a return ticket out of most countries in the world is pretty standard. For the airlines, and for immigration. As an Australian, I'd likely be denied entry to the US without evidence that I had the means to leave? Why should thailand be any different? Ah, ok, cause it is run by little brown people who are economic incompetents...thats right...

3) Government can say and talk all it wants. But it is up to the idiviual hotel owner to make up his/her own mind of what is best for his business? Or should they now take your advice from the government you so regularly lambast?

4) You are not Thai, you are obviously not a hotel owner either.....I guess certain nationalities have superior ways of thinking about things, as it seems to be what you imply....

5) Tell me what country isn't promoting domestic tourism in a downturn? Is there something inherently wrong with that?

6) And your evidence for 'hotels keepning their prices high'? Oh thats right JR, you don't do 'evidence'. Stupid me.

Edited June 11, 2009 by samran

[loong]

However, if you get into behavioural economics, people to associate 'quality' with higher prices. Ergo, when someone is on holiday (as opposed to long term visa running) and has a bit of money to splash about, there may be the tempation to go for it anyway. How many times have we all been on holiday, seen something and gone 'awww, what the heck'.

behavioural economics- I like that. Also if I can add the Exclusivity factor or Snob value, this being the reason that many people will pay $5 for a shirt manufactured in an asian sweatshop, but an additional $500 for the label. (Maybe an exaggeration, but you know what I mean).

Yes, there are times when I've been on holiday or even just out for a meal, I've paid well over the value just for that special occasion feeling. (And at times I've been disappointed)

For sure, some hotels and restaurants can charge a lot more because of the high level of service and customer satisfaction. Some get away with high prices because the customer thinks that they will get better service.

A lot of Thais and Farang love the snob factor - if Johnny Walker Black Label was 100 Baht a bottle, it just wouldn't taste so good!

[technocracy]

Seems some people don't mind buying a visa for Indonesia, but balk at paying something to go to Thailand. Also, most will pay a visa fee to enter Laos and Vietnam. At worse, I would say Thailand fits in the middle somewhere, and has some competition.

In this situation, I would have absolutely no objection to paying 1000 Baht to get a tourist Visa for Thailand.

I do, however object to having to pay the 1500 Baht visa into Laos, the high cost of taxis, rooms and food in Vientiane in order to be able to apply for this visa. I really don't want to be spending money in Laos that i could be spending in Thailand. As well as the complete waste of 3 days.

I've seen a few people complaining about the price of rooms and food in Vientiane and I always wonder why - until I ended up talking with an American in a coffeeshop who was asking me if I lived here and how I survived with it being so expensive! I looked quizzically at him and asked what meant by 'expensive' and his explanation was comparing a bowl of noodles bought in a restaurant on the main mekong road in downtown Vientiane with a side street stall in Chiang Mai!

I explained to him that the central area surrounding the fountain sq was tourist and UN expat central and pricing is way higher than any of the out lying areas. Vientiane is a capital and land prices in the central region is soaring you are talking $200 per sq m and over so the basic facts are ALL shops/restaurants will be more expensive than outside. This said it is still FAR cheaper that Bangkok and when comparing similar types of restaurants to those in Thailand in general it is cheaper also.

A comparison I made the other year was a night out bowling - I like a few games - so with a friend in Bangkok, his gf and my wife we had a full night of beer, food and bowling til kicking out time grand total - over 10,000baht. We then a few weeks later did similar in Vientiane grand total - around $100 aka 3300ish baht. Doesn't take a degree in Mathematics work out the cheapest!

Also I have to say during out shopping trips over to Nong Khai or Udon I've started to notice just how expensive the place is compared to here and many things we used to buy in Thailand we've started buying here because they are cheaper.

Edited June 11, 2009 by technocracy

[JR Texas]

Seems some people don't mind buying a visa for Indonesia, but balk at paying something to go to Thailand. Also, most will pay a visa fee to enter Laos and Vietnam. At worse, I would say Thailand fits in the middle somewhere, and has some competition.

In this situation, I would have absolutely no objection to paying 1000 Baht to get a tourist Visa for Thailand.

I do, however object to having to pay the 1500 Baht visa into Laos, the high cost of taxis, rooms and food in Vientiane in order to be able to apply for this visa. I really don't want to be spending money in Laos that i could be spending in Thailand. As well as the complete waste of 3 days.

I've seen a few people complaining about the price of rooms and food in Vientiane and I always wonder why - until I ended up talking with an American in a coffeeshop who was asking me if I lived here and how I survived with it being so expensive! I looked quizzically at him and asked what meant by 'expensive' and his explanation was comparing a bowl of noodles bought in a restaurant on the main mekong road in downtown Vientiane with a side street stall in Chiang Mai!

I explained to him that the central area surrounding the fountain sq was tourist and UN expat central and pricing is way higher than any of the out lying areas. Vientiane is a capital and land prices in the central region is soaring you are talking $200 per sq m and over so the basic facts are ALL shops/restaurants will be more expensive than outside. This said it is still FAR cheaper that Bangkok and when comparing similar types of restaurants to those in Thailand in general it is cheaper also.

A comparison I made the other year was a night out bowling - I like a few games - so with a friend in Bangkok, his gf and my wife we had a full night of beer, food and bowling til kicking out time grand total - over 10,000baht. We then a few weeks later did similar in Vientiane grand total - around $100 aka 3300ish baht. Doesn't take a degree in Mathematics work out the cheapest!

Also I have to say during out shopping trips over to Nong Khai or Udon I've started to notice just how expensive the place is compared to here and many things we used to buy in Thailand we've started buying here because they are cheaper.

Even prior to the current global economic downturn, tourists liked coming to Thailand because it was perceived as a bargain.

Now, with the global economy in a mess, most tourists are really looking for bargains. If Thailand's tourism industry is not going to offer those bargains, it will lose money.

Thailand is simply not that special anymore. Other countries in the region are becoming more and more attractive to tourists (e.g., Italians are flocking to Bali, Indonesia right now).

In order to compete, Thailand needs to abolish its crazy visa system and put something in place that makes sense. And it has to start reducing prices to make it a bargain again.

The folly of raising prices arbitrarily--without letting the market decide the price--is evident in Pattaya-Jomtien.

Increasing numbers of tourists have been put off by the price increases and are going elsewhere.

It is now dead or close to being dead according to several sources who live there.

If you want to harm the tourism industry in Thailand, do this:

1) keep arbitrarily raising prices (ignore market reality),

2) make the visa system even more tourism/expat unfriendly, and

3) continue to discourage all tourists that are not wealthy from coming to Thailand with phrases like "we only want quality tourists."

Unfortunately, I think that is the plan.

[Birdman]

If someone does not like the place, why not move on. Some posters here complain again and again and again. Always the same silly arguments. They surely complain everywhere to everyone they can.

But that does not change the situation a bit. Ask yourself: Have I ever been happy in Thailand. If you can answer honestly to yourself, yeah, before it was nicer, try to realize your new situation, make positive adjustments here and there or try to find a better place somewhere else.

Maybe Kerala in India or Boracay in the Philippines.

[beechguy]

Seems some people don't mind buying a visa for Indonesia, but balk at paying something to go to Thailand. Also, most will pay a visa fee to enter Laos and Vietnam. At worse, I would say Thailand fits in the middle somewhere, and has some competition.

In this situation, I would have absolutely no objection to paying 1000 Baht to get a tourist Visa for Thailand.

I do, however object to having to pay the 1500 Baht visa into Laos, the high cost of taxis, rooms and food in Vientiane in order to be able to apply for this visa. I really don't want to be spending money in Laos that i could be spending in Thailand. As well as the complete waste of 3 days.

I've seen a few people complaining about the price of rooms and food in Vientiane and I always wonder why - until I ended up talking with an American in a coffeeshop who was asking me if I lived here and how I survived with it being so expensive! I looked quizzically at him and asked what meant by 'expensive' and his explanation was comparing a bowl of noodles bought in a restaurant on the main mekong road in downtown Vientiane with a side street stall in Chiang Mai!

I explained to him that the central area surrounding the fountain sq was tourist and UN expat central and pricing is way higher than any of the out lying areas. Vientiane is a capital and land prices in the central region is soaring you are talking $200 per sq m and over so the basic facts are ALL shops/restaurants will be more expensive than outside. This said it is still FAR cheaper that Bangkok and when comparing similar types of restaurants to those in Thailand in general it is cheaper also.

A comparison I made the other year was a night out bowling - I like a few games - so with a friend in Bangkok, his gf and my wife we had a full night of beer, food and bowling til kicking out time grand total - over 10,000baht. We then a few weeks later did similar in Vientiane grand total - around $100 aka 3300ish baht. Doesn't take a degree in Mathematics work out the cheapest!

Also I have to say during out shopping trips over to Nong Khai or Udon I've started to notice just how expensive the place is compared to here and many things we used to buy in Thailand we've started buying here because they are cheaper.

Even prior to the current global economic downturn, tourists liked coming to Thailand because it was perceived as a bargain.

Now, with the global economy in a mess, most tourists are really looking for bargains. If Thailand's tourism industry is not going to offer those bargains, it will lose money.

Thailand is simply not that special anymore. Other countries in the region are becoming more and more attractive to tourists (e.g., Italians are flocking to Bali, Indonesia right now).

In order to compete, Thailand needs to abolish its crazy visa system and put something in place that makes sense. And it has to start reducing prices to make it a bargain again.

The folly of raising prices arbitrarily--without letting the market decide the price--is evident in Pattaya-Jomtien.

Increasing numbers of tourists have been put off by the price increases and are going elsewhere.

It is now dead or close to being dead according to several sources who live there.

If you want to harm the tourism industry in Thailand, do this:

1) keep arbitrarily raising prices (ignore market reality),

2) make the visa system even more tourism/expat unfriendly, and

3) continue to discourage all tourists that are not wealthy from coming to Thailand with phrases like "we only want quality tourists."

Unfortunately, I think that is the plan.

Earlier you suggested they target the low, mid, and upper income tourists. For 2) and 3) above, the average tourist, how do you make it much easier or cheaper? They can already walk off the plane free for 30 days, if that isn't enough, a single entry tourist visa is $35.00 at most in their home country, that means when they come, they can stay 60 days, that's only about 23 Baht per day. If they're low or mid-income, I doubt they would stay longer than 60 days. There is a broad range of lodging, from a few hundred Baht per night upwards, same for food, they can eat at a noodle cart or high end restaurant, anything in between.

I find it difficult to believe, that a significant number of people are passing up Thailand over 23 Baht per day for visa cost.

Is it the bargain it was before, no. Legitimate or not, some related businesses have raised prices, and I no longer get 40 Baht to the $, but now only about 34 to the $. That's quite a difference, and nothing to do with immigration regulations.

[IMA_FARANG]

Could somebody with some knowledge of Thai tourism please explain why the TAT spend vast amounts of taxpayers money attempting to attract visitors to this country, whilst other government departments are doing their best to discourage tourism.

I cite the racially biased imposition of double pricing i.e. 10bt for Thais - 100 or 200bt for foreigners (unique to Thailand I believe) and the somewhat new addition of ATM charges of 150bt for foreigners. These impositions are now beginning to appear in guide books and travel advisories, thus pointing potential tourists elsewhere.

Are we now to assume that TAT stands for Thailand Against Tourism?

One of those grumpy old f@rts aren't you? Sorry nobody recognises your inate superiority to eveyone else in Thailand by virtue of you being a Farang.

If the only problem I had to complain about was 150 baht fee for an ATM withdrawal...I would be quite happy.

I've got health problems...I'll probably end up as a diabetic. My Thai girlfriend has a Gall Bladder problem, which will probably mean she will be visting the doctor at least once a month ffor the rest of her life. My daughter and her husband broke up, and the granddaughter is therefore living with granny.

It's called LIFE....it happens. Stop moping around and live it.

[IMA_FARANG]

Seems some people don't mind buying a visa for Indonesia, but balk at paying something to go to Thailand. Also, most will pay a visa fee to enter Laos and Vietnam. At worse, I would say Thailand fits in the middle somewhere, and has some competition.

In this situation, I would have absolutely no objection to paying 1000 Baht to get a tourist Visa for Thailand.

I do, however object to having to pay the 1500 Baht visa into Laos, the high cost of taxis, rooms and food in Vientiane in order to be able to apply for this visa. I really don't want to be spending money in Laos that i could be spending in Thailand. As well as the complete waste of 3 days.

I've seen a few people complaining about the price of rooms and food in Vientiane and I always wonder why - until I ended up talking with an American in a coffeeshop who was asking me if I lived here and how I survived with it being so expensive! I looked quizzically at him and asked what meant by 'expensive' and his explanation was comparing a bowl of noodles bought in a restaurant on the main mekong road in downtown Vientiane with a side street stall in Chiang Mai!

I explained to him that the central area surrounding the fountain sq was tourist and UN expat central and pricing is way higher than any of the out lying areas. Vientiane is a capital and land prices in the central region is soaring you are talking $200 per sq m and over so the basic facts are ALL shops/restaurants will be more expensive than outside. This said it is still FAR cheaper that Bangkok and when comparing similar types of restaurants to those in Thailand in general it is cheaper also.

A comparison I made the other year was a night out bowling - I like a few games - so with a friend in Bangkok, his gf and my wife we had a full night of beer, food and bowling til kicking out time grand total - over 10,000baht. We then a few weeks later did similar in Vientiane grand total - around $100 aka 3300ish baht. Doesn't take a degree in Mathematics work out the cheapest!

Also I have to say during out shopping trips over to Nong Khai or Udon I've started to notice just how expensive the place is compared to here and many things we used to buy in Thailand we've started buying here because they are cheaper.

Even prior to the current global economic downturn, tourists liked coming to Thailand because it was perceived as a bargain.

Now, with the global economy in a mess, most tourists are really looking for bargains. If Thailand's tourism industry is not going to offer those bargains, it will lose money.

Thailand is simply not that special anymore. Other countries in the region are becoming more and more attractive to tourists (e.g., Italians are flocking to Bali, Indonesia right now).

In order to compete, Thailand needs to abolish its crazy visa system and put something in place that makes sense. And it has to start reducing prices to make it a bargain again.

The folly of raising prices arbitrarily--without letting the market decide the price--is evident in Pattaya-Jomtien.

Increasing numbers of tourists have been put off by the price increases and are going elsewhere.

It is now dead or close to being dead according to several sources who live there.

If you want to harm the tourism industry in Thailand, do this:

1) keep arbitrarily raising prices (ignore market reality),

2) make the visa system even more tourism/expat unfriendly, and

3) continue to discourage all tourists that are not wealthy from coming to Thailand with phrases like "we only want quality tourists."

Unfortunately, I think that is the plan.

You may not think Thailand is a bargain, but try living in the U.S.A. I will be retiring this year . I can live in Thailand on my pension/social security/retirement...or whatever you want to call it. In the U.S. I can't afford to live on the same monthly money .

End of story.

[robbiecia]

Thailand is certainly not the bargain it was a few years ago.

Trying to compare it here to western prices just doesn't work!

For western prices you would expect western infrastructure.

You can find good value for money here, but not like you could 5 years ago

[JR Texas]

Thailand is certainly not the bargain it was a few years ago.

Trying to compare it here to western prices just doesn't work!

For western prices you would expect western infrastructure.

You can find good value for money here, but not like you could 5 years ago

You are right.......it is not the bargain it was.

It seems like the fewer the tourists, the higher the prices. Amazing Thailand!

In one sense it is a bit silly to compare Thailand prices to Western-country prices.

The bulk of potential tourist are probably comparing Thailand prices (and what you get for those prices) to prices in other developing countries in Southeast Asia.

Competition for tourists dollars is growing in the region......Thailand has been the top dog for a long time......now people are waking up to other destinations.

If the artificially high prices continue, increasing numbers of tourists will consider other options in the region or at the very least spend less time in the Kingdom.

Of course, there are small numbers of very rich tourists who couldn't care less about prices and likely do not even pay attention to them.

[Birdman]

No it is not expensive for tourists in Thailand. It is cheap. And there are many choices what to do and where to stay in Thailand.

Compare that with other major tourist destinations, like Kenya, Seychelles, Dominican Republic, Turky, Egypt, Canaries... Not to mention French Polynesia, Palu, Bahamas, French Caribbean etc etc.

A skiing holiday in the Alps with own transportation costs more than a equally long holiday in Thailand including the long haul flight.

Some try to use that silly argument like a threat "Tourists will not come because it is sooo expensive". But in reality all they care is their own personal financial well being. If costs matter move to India or the Philippines.

[phetaroi]

One of those grumpy old f@rts aren't you? Sorry nobody recognises your inate superiority to eveyone else in Thailand by virtue of you being a Farang.

If the only problem I had to complain about was 150 baht fee for an ATM withdrawal...I would be quite happy.

I've got health problems...I'll probably end up as a diabetic. My Thai girlfriend has a Gall Bladder problem, which will probably mean she will be visting the doctor at least once a month ffor the rest of her life. My daughter and her husband broke up, and the granddaughter is therefore living with granny.

It's called LIFE....it happens. Stop moping around and live it.

Good for you! While this is a discussion forum, and I don't even mind the repetition of certain topics, I get so tired of one attitude -- the constant emphasis on "cheap". You're right...so many other things in the world to worry about beyond an ATM withdrawl fee or the cost of a visa.

[Birdman]

Thailand is certainly not the bargain it was a few years ago.

Trying to compare it here to western prices just doesn't work!

For western prices you would expect western infrastructure.

You can find good value for money here, but not like you could 5 years ago

We speak about tourism here, and in that category many of Thailands tourist attractions and the diversity is in the A-class worldwide.

[phetaroi]

Thailand is certainly not the bargain it was a few years ago.

Trying to compare it here to western prices just doesn't work!

For western prices you would expect western infrastructure.

You can find good value for money here, but not like you could 5 years ago

So? Things change!

Western infrastructure? You mean like the Skytrain? The subway? The expressways? The klong boats? The river taxis? The ferries? The spectacular shopping malls? The variety of restaurants? The western-style condos and apartments? dam_n, Bangkok is far more modern city than Washington, D.C. What infrastructure are you missing?

[JR Texas]

Thailand is certainly not the bargain it was a few years ago.

Trying to compare it here to western prices just doesn't work!

For western prices you would expect western infrastructure.

You can find good value for money here, but not like you could 5 years ago

We speak about tourism here, and in that category many of Thailands tourist attractions and the diversity is in the A-class worldwide.

The same can be said for similar developing countries in the region like Bali (Indonesia), Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, and the Philippines. And that was my point.

Thailand has some serious competition now and needs to recognize that.

By the way, if you are living in the USA, some destinations in the Caribbean are A-class and fairly inexpensive if you factor in the cost of a RT airline ticket from the USA to Thailand.......same for Panama, Costa Rica, etc.

Again, as the global economy worsens, increasing numbers of tourists will look for bargains. The govt. seems to know this and has tried to get hotels to reduce prices across the board.........but apparently most hotel owners are not cooperating.

They seem to be locked into a low season, high season mindset. They are willing to take a hit in the low season because they think they can make up for it in the high season.

Maybe that has worked in the past..........but I think they are miscalculating the global economic downturn.....I think the high season numbers will be disappointing.

What would I do to bring tourists in: lower prices across the board and radically alter the visa system to make it more tourists friendly. I would also, if I were in charge of TAT, recognize that the best option is to send a clear message to the world that Thailand wants all tourists--low income, middle income, high income.

[beechguy]

Thailand is certainly not the bargain it was a few years ago.

Trying to compare it here to western prices just doesn't work!

For western prices you would expect western infrastructure.

You can find good value for money here, but not like you could 5 years ago

We speak about tourism here, and in that category many of Thailands tourist attractions and the diversity is in the A-class worldwide.

The same can be said for similar developing countries in the region like Bali (Indonesia), Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, and the Philippines. And that was my point.

Thailand has some serious competition now and needs to recognize that.

By the way, if you are living in the USA, some destinations in the Caribbean are A-class and fairly inexpensive if you factor in the cost of a RT airline ticket from the USA to Thailand.......same for Panama, Costa Rica, etc.

Again, as the global economy worsens, increasing numbers of tourists will look for bargains. The govt. seems to know this and has tried to get hotels to reduce prices across the board.........but apparently most hotel owners are not cooperating.

They seem to be locked into a low season, high season mindset. They are willing to take a hit in the low season because they think they can make up for it in the high season.

Maybe that has worked in the past..........but I think they are miscalculating the global economic downturn.....I think the high season numbers will be disappointing.

What would I do to bring tourists in: lower prices across the board and radically alter the visa system to make it more tourists friendly. I would also, if I were in charge of TAT, recognize that the best option is to send a clear message to the world that Thailand wants all tourists--low income, middle income, high income.

Tourist can get off the plane free for 30 days at a time, a tourist visa is only 1000 Baht for 60 days. How is that discouraging tourist from coming to Thailand, especially when several neighboring countries also charge for visas. Even if it did, do you know how many tourists stay more than 60-90 days?

Also, there already hotels and guest houses ranging from less than 500 Baht per night, upwards. Restaurants, entertainment, also a broad range. There is already something for almost every budget.

Edited June 12, 2009 by beechguy

[Birdman]

"The same can be said for similar developing countries in the region like Bali (Indonesia), Malaysia, Vietnam, Cambodia, and the Philippines. And that was my point."

No, except Bali they aren't A-class. And Bali has by far not the same diversity as Thailand. Check also out the tour catalogues of the major tour operators worldwide. 100+ pages about Thailand compared to appr 0 - 8 pages for the rest, except Indonesia, here about 10 pages including Bali - that says a lot.

"By the way, if you are living in the USA, some destinations in the Caribbean are A-class and fairly inexpensive if you factor in the cost of a RT airline ticket from the USA to Thailand.......same for Panama, Costa Rica, etc"

Only a small percentage of tourists in Thailand comes from USA. Tickets from EU to Thailand are cheaper than to Panama or Costa Rica. And that countries are by far no A-class destinations. Over there Mexico is or the Dominican Republic.

Some posters have absolutely no idea about tourism and they use the crisis only for their personal benefits.

Edited June 12, 2009 by Birdman

[loong]

........................

Only a small percentage of tourists in Thailand comes from USA. Tickets from EU to Thailand are cheaper than to Panama or Costa Rica.................

It is a fact that Thailand attracts very few American tourists. If Thailand is serious about attracting more tourists maybe some research should be done here. There must be a reason why so few Americans consider Thailand attractive as a holiday destination. Is it just the cost of the air fare?

[samran]

What would I do to bring tourists in: lower prices across the board and radically alter the visa system to make it more tourists friendly. I would also, if I were in charge of TAT, recognize that the best option is to send a clear message to the world that Thailand wants all tourists--low income, middle income, high income.

Oh, so you would 'lower prices'. So how do you propose to lower costs that these operators must incur? Or do you propose they run at a loss?

And you would make the visa system more friendly? Genuine tourists already get 30 days upon landing, or 60 days if they bother to turn up to an embassy. Oh, but we aren't talking about genuine tourists, we are talking about YOU! Stupid me (again).

[BigSnake]

Good points, however always keep in mind TIT(this is thailand) which mean thing are doing different and somewhat backward at times, these are Thai people and it seem to work for them, thousand and thousand or tourists still flock to Thailand, you figure it

[JR Texas]

Good points, however always keep in mind TIT(this is thailand) which mean thing are doing different and somewhat backward at times, these are Thai people and it seem to work for them, thousand and thousand or tourists still flock to Thailand, you figure it

Yes, TIT.......yes, backward at time......yes, it seems to work for them (at least in their minds as opposed to reality).

It it worth considering how many thousands more tourists would come--with their money in hand--if they would scrap the current visa system for something simple and more tourism friendly?

It is also worth considering how many thousands more would come if they would stop the "we want quality tourists" nonsense and focus on a broader, more inclusive tourism promotion scheme?

There are lots of things that work. But just because something works is no reason to assume that it should not be improved. Thailand will either adapt or lose valuable tourists dollars to other destinations.

[beechguy]

Good points, however always keep in mind TIT(this is thailand) which mean thing are doing different and somewhat backward at times, these are Thai people and it seem to work for them, thousand and thousand or tourists still flock to Thailand, you figure it

Yes, TIT.......yes, backward at time......yes, it seems to work for them (at least in their minds as opposed to reality).

It it worth considering how many thousands more tourists would come--with their money in hand--if they would scrap the current visa system for something simple and more tourism friendly?

It is also worth considering how many thousands more would come if they would stop the "we want quality tourists" nonsense and focus on a broader, more inclusive tourism promotion scheme?

There are lots of things that work. But just because something works is no reason to assume that it should not be improved. Thailand will either adapt or lose valuable tourists dollars to other destinations.

And once again you ignore the true facts I and others have provided. It would be helpful if you would not misreperesent the situation, even if it's unintentional, because of your ignorance of the immigration regulations.