I admit to being a bit of a procrastinator and living in Thailand hasn't helped much, but I have decided to get my bachelors degree done while I am still young and it won't look too bad on my resume that I haven't finished it.

I am a student of Economics in my home country and finished 2 1/3 years of the 3 years it takes to get that degree, then I moved to Thailand and I must admit I didnt care much to finish my degree, since I couldnt get grants to do so anyway and to be honest I was tired of all the math!

So, I decided in the end to get a bachelor degree here in Thailand, something like business (BBA), mostly so I can get workpermits and visa's in a number of countries. I already studied one semester at Ramkhamhaeng and it was easy and enjoyable. In fact it was maybe a little bit too easy. What is it with the thai university courses? In my 8 courses or so I have taken here (2 uni's) not once have I been asked to read a specific passage n the book for next lecture? Its all done on overhead slides and notes borrowed from friends from old exams. Then of course lets not forget the 'presentations' that seems to be in all courses. One of my professors at one of the most prestigous unis in Bangkok even told us, extra points would be awarded for Sanook! I kid you not!

Much of the time when I am at uni in Bangkok I feel like I am back in high school again. The course is ridicously easy and grades are given just as much on 'class participation' and 'presentations' than for papers and tests. In fact I have had courses completely without final tests. I see students bring gifts for their teachers all the time, sure thats nice and respectfull but it could be seen as compromising integrity.

I don't really have a problem with this, its still a friendly and good enviroment to study in.

What I do have a problem with is the price these universities are charging for this 'education'. A government school like Ramkhamhaeng (where thais pay 20 baht pr credit) now decided they want 4000 baht pr course and around 40.000 baht for one semester.

There is simply no way a bachelor degree from Ramkamhaeng is worth 400.000-500.000 baht!

So I am very much reconsidering taking a full bachelors degree here. Do I really want to spend half a million baht and 3-4 years on something like that?

Then I considered getting the missing courses from a thai uni and transferring back home. Problem is, those courses doesnt really exist here. Lets say I need Macro Economics 3, but even a uni like Thammasat only offer Macro 2.

The only place I have found so far with a decent economics program has been Chula and they want 150.000 baht for one semester, which is insane for a university ranked 100 marks lower than the my own, and twice the amount that thai students pay.

So what do I do? Bite the bullet and pay for a 'top thai education'? Go back home for a semester, dont really want that?

I could use some advice, if you have experience with economic studies here please let me know!

What I do have a problem with is the price these universities are charging for this 'education'. A government school like Ramkhamhaeng (where thais pay 20 baht pr credit) now decided they want 4000 baht pr course and around 40.000 baht for one semester.

Could you clarify the 20 baht per credit please?

try the University of London's external programme:

http://www.londonexternal.ac.uk/

Study here and take your exams at the British Council.

I am a student in Social Sciences but I want to go to Thammasat as an exchange student for studying economics. What do you think about their Bachelor of Economics ? Is it as easy as Ramkhamhaeng ? The level required is that low ?

Remember these "international programs" mostly cater for Thai students and other non-native speakers from neighboring countries. Thus the language and content will be modified to suit these students. Also, these programs survive on fees; there is no point in failing too many students otherwise they won't have customers!

My suggestion would be to find an open university course that could be used to make up the credits you are missing from your economics course, and try to get your original degree awarded. Otherwise, return home and finish your degree. Perhaps your university bach home can offer the units you are missing as an "external student" Thus you could complete the work online.

I am a student in Social Sciences but I want to go to Thammasat as an exchange student for studying economics. What do you think about their Bachelor of Economics ? Is it as easy as Ramkhamhaeng ? The level required is that low ?

The econ programs at Thammasat and Chulalongkorn are both considered very good programs. I don't have any experience with Ramkhamhaeng's program, so I can't say anything about it. The Thammasat and Chula programs are NOT easy and do require a solid background in math. Both offer interesting Thailand-specific courses that might be especially interesting for exchange students.

Remember these "international programs" mostly cater for Thai students and other non-native speakers from neighboring countries. Thus the language and content will be modified to suit these students. Also, these programs survive on fees; there is no point in failing too many students otherwise they won't have customers!

My suggestion would be to find an open university course that could be used to make up the credits you are missing from your economics course, and try to get your original degree awarded. Otherwise, return home and finish your degree. Perhaps your university bach home can offer the units you are missing as an "external student" Thus you could complete the work online.

You obviusly don't know what you are talking about.

Richard, if your experience is different then please tell us why you disagree with the quoted post.

Richard, if your experience is different then please tell us why you disagree with the quoted post.

Yes I'm waiting for the reply as well..

First off, there are hundreds of international programs at universities across Thailand.

In 2008, both Thai public and private higher education institutions offered a total of 884 international programmes using English as the medium of instruction at undergraduate and graduate levels, i.e. 296 undergraduate programmes, 350 master’s degree programmes, 215 doctoral degree programmes, and 23 other degree programmes. Foreign and Thai students can take courses for credits from those programmes.

http://inter.mua.go.th/main2/article.php?id=6

There is no way you can judge the quality of each and every program.

2nd, I am in my 3rd year of study at Payap University International College. English is mandatory. Teachers have to teach with it and are not allowed to teach in Thai. There are students from 30 different countries studying at the International College at Payap University. It would be impossible for them to study in multiple languages. There are plenty of western students at Payap who demand English.

You might have expierence at one or two universities in Thailand but I hardly think you are an expert on all of them.

Thanks. Most of what I have heard about international programs is quite good. I have very limited experience, however.

As someone who knows what kinds of students go to various international programmes in Thailand, and as someone who has had frequent professional contacts with those who teach at many of them, I rather feel I do know what I'm talking about, and I find that Culcine's remarks about international programmes are a very fitting response to the OP. In most of the public universities here, the 'international' programmes are in fact back-door opportunities for Thai students who simply wouldn't make the grade in terms of the regular Thai-language programme, as well as foreigners who wish to study in English. As a result, not only do they have to be more 'customer sensitive' because of their 'pseudo-private' nature, but they also must be aware of a certain high number of students who are basically educationally dead on arrival. This doesn't have to be true for any individual student, but it often enough is.

Furthermore, almost universally in my experience, Thai students who choose to study in private universities are doing so because they can't get into the most desirable public programmes fairly or by paying enough money to do so. I am not saying that this describes every single private programme in Thailand (or every single Thai student in them), but it is certainly *generally* true.

As a foreigner attempting to study here, then, you are putting yourself in a market where money determines entrance more so than credibility, because the purpose of the programme is to cater for those for whom this is generally true. I am not aware of anything to stop a suitably qualified foreigner from applying at the full public programmes of Chula, Mahidon, etc., but I imagine you would need to get competitively high scores on their *Thai language* entrance tests to match the qualified Thai nationals applying.

Therefore, foreigners seeking to study here should be very careful to pay attention to what types of students apply, from where, and why, if possible (of course, it is hardly likely to be transparent, but walking around and talking to people could help), along with other accreditations and associations of the educational institutions in question, before putting down a lot of cash for the private school equivalent of an American junior college.

As someone who knows what kinds of students go to various international programmes in Thailand, and as someone who has had frequent professional contacts with those who teach at many of them, I rather feel I do know what I'm talking about, and I find that Culcine's remarks about international programmes are a very fitting response to the OP. In most of the public universities here, the 'international' programmes are in fact back-door opportunities for Thai students who simply wouldn't make the grade in terms of the regular Thai-language programme, as well as foreigners who wish to study in English.

IJWT, while not challenging your experience, I find your remarks a bit disturbing, as I know of excellent students from several years of M6 graduating classes who are in or have completed International Programs at Chula, Thammasat, Mahidol and KMITT, for example. They would have breezed into Thai-medium courses had they chosen them.

I do respect the opinion of IJWT. Over the years most of his comments on TV have pretty much been spot on. Much of this I imagine based on years of auctual experience.

I have seen great ideas start badly from poor planning. But gradually, these ideas grew into great and successful projects. Higher level international education in Thailand seems to be taking this path. It is true many places had a rough start but it does not mean it will always be that way. Even at my university in the last 3 years I have seen improvement. It might not be on pace with the rest of the world but it is getting better.

Many comments I hear from ThaiVisa members about Thai universities seem to keep repeating things they have heard over and over again. It is kind of sad many take their limitied experience about universities in Thailand and talk as if they are speaking from a position of authority or expierence.

I can give first hand experience of what it is really like in my university but I cannot comment about others that I don't know about.

While it is easy to get into Payap's international college, it is not always easy to get out. I have seen students fail classes. It happens for 3 reasons, the student is lazy, the class is difficult, or there are teacher issues. I failed Managerial Accounting. I couldnt grasp the concepts for some reason. Variances were kicking my butt. I came back the next semester and got a B+. I worked very hard for that grade and felt quite proud when I passed that class.

Statistics was another class that was difficult for me. Learning to do research and then calculating the results with the SPSS program and presenting the report in front of the class was a real challenge.

Most of my classes involve a large end of the semester group projects. They are very time consuming and require a lot of work. Not everyone has the same work ethic. Some students do enough just to get by. While others have a sense of pride in their final projects and work very hard.

You can get by at my university and do just enough to get a diploma. Or, you can work hard, read the chapters from the American text books that are used at Payap, do your assignments and get a really excellent education. I feel the education I am getting at my university is top notch. Sure it has it's problems but I am a business student. The world has problems and businesses work to solve these problems.

There is one thing in life and business that is certain - Change. Education in Thailand is a business that is changing and getting better. Right now the cost to study here is not very expensive. I feel I am lucky to be able to get an education like the one I am getting. If I was in the USA I would only be getting the one sided American dream education where they teach the American way is the only way. I am lucky to study in an international environment with people from different countries and cultures. When I finish my education I think I will be more prepared to work in the global market place than someone who has never been outside their own borders.

Edited May 17, 201016 yr by richard10365

I do respect the opinion of IJWT. Over the years most of his comments on TV have pretty much been spot on. Much of this I imagine based on years of auctual experience.

I have seen great ideas start badly from poor planning. But gradually, these ideas grew into great and successful projects. Higher level international education in Thailand seems to be taking this path. It is true many places had a rough start but it does not mean it will always be that way. Even at my university in the last 3 years I have seen improvement. It might not be on pace with the rest of the world but it is getting better.

Many comments I hear from ThaiVisa members about Thai universities seem to keep repeating things they have heard over and over again. It is kind of sad many take their limitied experience about universities in Thailand and talk as if they are speaking from a position of authority or expierence.

I can give first hand experience of what it is really like in my university but I cannot comment about others that I don't know about.

While it is easy to get into Payap's international college, it is not always easy to get out. I have seen students fail classes. It happens for 3 reasons, the student is lazy, the class is difficult, or there are teacher issues. I failed Managerial Accounting. I couldnt grasp the concepts for some reason. Variances were kicking my butt. I came back the next semester and got a B+. I worked very hard for that grade and felt quite proud when I passed that class.

Statistics was another class that was difficult for me. Learning to do research and then calculating the results with the SPSS program and presenting the report in front of the class was a real challenge.

Most of my classes involve a large end of the semester group projects. They are very time consuming and require a lot of work. Not everyone has the same work ethic. Some students do enough just to get by. While others have a sense of pride in their final projects and work very hard.

You can get by at my university and do just enough to get a diploma. Or, you can work hard, read the chapters from the American text books that are used at Payap, do your assignments and get a really excellent education. I feel the education I am getting at my university is top notch. Sure it has it's problems but I am a business student. The world has problems and businesses work to solve these problems.

There is one thing in life and business that is certain - Change. Education in Thailand is a business that is changing and getting better. Right now the cost to study here is not very expensive. I feel I am lucky to be able to get an education like the one I am getting. If I was in the USA I would only be getting the one sided American dream education where they teach the American way is the only way. I am lucky to study in an international environment with people from different countries and cultures. When I finish my education I think I will be more prepared to work in the global market place than someone who has never been outside their own borders.

Very informative posting. Thank you.

As someone who knows what kinds of students go to various international programmes in Thailand, and as someone who has had frequent professional contacts with those who teach at many of them, I rather feel I do know what I'm talking about, and I find that Culcine's remarks about international programmes are a very fitting response to the OP. In most of the public universities here, the 'international' programmes are in fact back-door opportunities for Thai students who simply wouldn't make the grade in terms of the regular Thai-language programme, as well as foreigners who wish to study in English.

IJWT, while not challenging your experience, I find your remarks a bit disturbing, as I know of excellent students from several years of M6 graduating classes who are in or have completed International Programs at Chula, Thammasat, Mahidol and KMITT, for example. They would have breezed into Thai-medium courses had they chosen them.

I sit on admissions committees for both Thai and international programs in my faculty. In reality, the students who come to us through both channels look remarkably similar to each other. In fact, several students who successfully gained entrance to both programs have chosen the international program because they feel that they will be better prepared for the job market and/or future study if they complete their undergraduate studies in English. I am certainly not saying that every student in my program is of high quality. I see my fair share of completely clueless students who gain admission because they did decently well at their inernational schools and took enough tutoring courses to get good marks on the SAT. Most students, however, are genuinely interested in their studies and come out of the program better trained than most undergraduates in the same field in my home country.

I can't speak for other international programs, but the international program I work for is NOT easier than the Thai program and, contrary to what a lot of people think, we do hand out a lot of failing grades. I also know that none of the lecturers in my program "dumb down" their classes either in terms of the level of English or substantive material.

There is increasing competition among international programs in Thailand, which is a good thing. I truly believe that the competition will continue to improve te quality of international education as programs work to attract and to retain both domestic and international students. I look forward to seeing how international university programs will evolve over the next few years.

My experience with international programs has been only on the student end. Some of our best students have attended international programs. About an equal number attended Thai programs. Most are attending very good, reputable universities and did very well on the entrance exams.

Some of the average to good students are attending private universities with mediocre (or maybe struggling) programs. They are having some difficulty but they are passing.

Like I said, I'm speaking very generally and I'm sure there are individual programmes (and many individual students) out there who are exceptions. I am simply pointing out that there is a basis, in my experience, for Culcine's opinion about international school programmes, especially at public universities. I am very interested to hear about these differing perspectives and hope these differences become more evident to me in the way I see students making choices about tertiary education.

Will an MBA from Chula open any doors for a non-Thai speaker? I know someone doing it, but I'm not sure why.

Thanks IJWT for your insight. It's a very helpful post and provides a great deal of insight into these programs. I, at least have a much better understanding of them and how and why they have developed.

It would seem that parents and students need to do their research on these programs to ascertain the quality before just jumping in because the word 'international' is in the title.

Will an MBA from Chula open any doors for a non-Thai speaker? I know someone doing it, but I'm not sure why.

It really depends, does he want to do business and live in Thailand? How about SE Asia, or work with business partners from the area.

I have looked at Mahidol's Industrial Ecology, and I could have sworn I saw one school had a tropical ecology program. Both would be able to be brought elsewhere, but I plan on living in Thailand, networking is a big help in finding a job. There are many industry, business, science, etc jobs out there for non-Thais.

What I do have a problem with is the price these universities are charging for this 'education'. A government school like Ramkhamhaeng (where thais pay 20 baht pr credit) now decided they want 4000 baht pr course and around 40.000 baht for one semester.

Could you clarify the 20 baht per credit please?

It's quite simple. If you attended a university in your country, they have two pricing systems. One for resident and the other for non-resident. They also have different standards for Internation students as well, to qualify for admintance to that education institution.

Question: Are you a citizen of Thailand?

• Yes, you pay thai fee.
  
• No, You pay non-resident fee.
  

Quite simple, why. You don't pay into the tax system in Thailand.

In the US, private universities have one high price and state university prices vary for state/out of state residents... not just country residents. So a Virginia resident pays a lot higher tuition at UCLA than a California resident. So a foreigner would pay the same higher price as the Virginian.

US higher education is a semi-private system with a high initial price tag. However, students from low income families are eligible for Federal grants (free money), Federal/state/private loans at favorable rates, and school grants. This lowers the price tag quite a bit for most students. However, foreign students are generally excluded from all these programs so foreigners tend to pay the full price very often. (Although since they are mostly coming from wealthy foreign families, they get the same treatment as very wealthy US families.)

Don't forget, the US has universities that are free if you come from a family below a certain income. You go there for 5 years and work while studying and during the summers for them, but no tuition, not sure about books. Two of such schools have agriculutral studies, so many of the jobs involve agriculture, but hel_l, free is free.

4000 per course is still cheaper than Payap where I study. Each course at Payap is 6,600. On top of that there are administrative fees as well. On average, one semester at Payap will cost between 50,000 to 60,000 Thai baht for 6 classes (18 credits).

While that seems a lot more than what you would pay at a government university, you have to remember, private universities are getting no money from the Thai government. Private universities have large expenses such as Electricity (lights, air conditioner, computers, etc), water, maintenace and staff that require high fees to be charged.

Some of these cost at a government university are paid for by the government in one form or another. The low cost of study at some of the more respected government universities such as Chula are why they have the ability to only accept the best students from the schools across Thailand.

Don't forget, the US has universities that are free if you come from a family below a certain income. You go there for 5 years and work while studying and during the summers for them, but no tuition, not sure about books. Two of such schools have agriculutral studies, so many of the jobs involve agriculture, but hel_l, free is free.

Very true. This is a recent development, but with the Ivy League having built up huge endowments, several have started charging students $0 tuition if parents make ~$60,000 or less. (Brown, Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth and Stanford)

I do respect the opinion of IJWT. Over the years most of his comments on TV have pretty much been spot on. Much of this I imagine based on years of auctual experience.

I have seen great ideas start badly from poor planning. But gradually, these ideas grew into great and successful projects. Higher level international education in Thailand seems to be taking this path. It is true many places had a rough start but it does not mean it will always be that way. Even at my university in the last 3 years I have seen improvement. It might not be on pace with the rest of the world but it is getting better.

Many comments I hear from ThaiVisa members about Thai universities seem to keep repeating things they have heard over and over again. It is kind of sad many take their limitied experience about universities in Thailand and talk as if they are speaking from a position of authority or expierence.

I can give first hand experience of what it is really like in my university but I cannot comment about others that I don't know about.

While it is easy to get into Payap's international college, it is not always easy to get out. I have seen students fail classes. It happens for 3 reasons, the student is lazy, the class is difficult, or there are teacher issues. I failed Managerial Accounting. I couldnt grasp the concepts for some reason. Variances were kicking my butt. I came back the next semester and got a B+. I worked very hard for that grade and felt quite proud when I passed that class.

Statistics was another class that was difficult for me. Learning to do research and then calculating the results with the SPSS program and presenting the report in front of the class was a real challenge.

Most of my classes involve a large end of the semester group projects. They are very time consuming and require a lot of work. Not everyone has the same work ethic. Some students do enough just to get by. While others have a sense of pride in their final projects and work very hard.

You can get by at my university and do just enough to get a diploma. Or, you can work hard, read the chapters from the American text books that are used at Payap, do your assignments and get a really excellent education. I feel the education I am getting at my university is top notch. Sure it has it's problems but I am a business student. The world has problems and businesses work to solve these problems.

There is one thing in life and business that is certain - Change. Education in Thailand is a business that is changing and getting better. Right now the cost to study here is not very expensive. I feel I am lucky to be able to get an education like the one I am getting. If I was in the USA I would only be getting the one sided American dream education where they teach the American way is the only way. I am lucky to study in an international environment with people from different countries and cultures. When I finish my education I think I will be more prepared to work in the global market place than someone who has never been outside their own borders.

I agree with what you are saying. But I am curious how will your diploma from a Thai university hold up next to an applicant from a university in America or U.K (only for example. many other great countries out there)? Unless of course you plan on only working in Asian countries.

I can tell you in about 6 months TahiRich as my wife will have WES evaluate all her master's level courses from Payap's International TEFOL degree. THey fuc_ked her and many people over and she ended up not being able to defend her thesis despite pulling a 3.4+ overall... We doubt many of them will really help her our with her new course of study, early childhood education, but we hope that some credits might count for something...

But in reality, the university said that it can't just accept the courses as is because the varying world standards and WES must evaluate them for the new University.

I do respect the opinion of IJWT. Over the years most of his comments on TV have pretty much been spot on. Much of this I imagine based on years of auctual experience.

I have seen great ideas start badly from poor planning. But gradually, these ideas grew into great and successful projects. Higher level international education in Thailand seems to be taking this path. It is true many places had a rough start but it does not mean it will always be that way. Even at my university in the last 3 years I have seen improvement. It might not be on pace with the rest of the world but it is getting better.

Many comments I hear from ThaiVisa members about Thai universities seem to keep repeating things they have heard over and over again. It is kind of sad many take their limitied experience about universities in Thailand and talk as if they are speaking from a position of authority or expierence.

I can give first hand experience of what it is really like in my university but I cannot comment about others that I don't know about.

While it is easy to get into Payap's international college, it is not always easy to get out. I have seen students fail classes. It happens for 3 reasons, the student is lazy, the class is difficult, or there are teacher issues. I failed Managerial Accounting. I couldnt grasp the concepts for some reason. Variances were kicking my butt. I came back the next semester and got a B+. I worked very hard for that grade and felt quite proud when I passed that class.

Statistics was another class that was difficult for me. Learning to do research and then calculating the results with the SPSS program and presenting the report in front of the class was a real challenge.

Most of my classes involve a large end of the semester group projects. They are very time consuming and require a lot of work. Not everyone has the same work ethic. Some students do enough just to get by. While others have a sense of pride in their final projects and work very hard.

You can get by at my university and do just enough to get a diploma. Or, you can work hard, read the chapters from the American text books that are used at Payap, do your assignments and get a really excellent education. I feel the education I am getting at my university is top notch. Sure it has it's problems but I am a business student. The world has problems and businesses work to solve these problems.

There is one thing in life and business that is certain - Change. Education in Thailand is a business that is changing and getting better. Right now the cost to study here is not very expensive. I feel I am lucky to be able to get an education like the one I am getting. If I was in the USA I would only be getting the one sided American dream education where they teach the American way is the only way. I am lucky to study in an international environment with people from different countries and cultures. When I finish my education I think I will be more prepared to work in the global market place than someone who has never been outside their own borders.

I agree with what you are saying. But I am curious how will your diploma from a Thai university hold up next to an applicant from a university in America or U.K (only for example. many other great countries out there)? Unless of course you plan on only working in Asian countries.

There is no doubt that diplomas from many universities carries more weight than diplomas from other universities. However, a diploma is only one part of how a society guages your ability to acomplish a task. Other factors would depend on what else is in my CV and the job I am applying for. From there, I would probably be invited in for an interview.

Experienced HR personel in businesses around the world have probably seen excellent workers come with diplomas come from hundreds of thousands of different universities around the world. With globalization being what it is, international experience if starting to carry more and more weight when applying for a job.

Each applicant is different. Everyone comes to a job interview with different skills and abilities. For myself, I doubt my diploma from Payap will have any negative consequenses on my chances for employment. For a company wishing to work globally, I think a degree from Payap will be a bonus and look better than a degree from someone who has never been anywhere.

I can tell you in about 6 months TahiRich as my wife will have WES evaluate all her master's level courses from Payap's International TEFOL degree. THey fuc_ked her and many people over and she ended up not being able to defend her thesis despite pulling a 3.4+ overall... We doubt many of them will really help her our with her new course of study, early childhood education, but we hope that some credits might count for something...

But in reality, the university said that it can't just accept the courses as is because the varying world standards and WES must evaluate them for the new University.

BlackArtemis, I'm not sure what happened exactly with your wife's education. I have seen you say more than once how you believe she was treated unfairly at Payap. In this post, you refer to many others being treated unfairly.

There are procedures for getting a degree. If your wife and others did not follow the procedures for getting a degree, then they won't get the degree. Having an excellent GPA is no reason to give a degree is the student does not finish the course.

However, I don't know all the details and you didn't include them all in your posts. If you want to post them here, please do. If you would like to discuss this at Payap, we can do that too. Since you bring this topic up every time something is mentioned about Payap I feel like I would like to find out what happened as well. All we and ThaiVisa posters know is a story from your point of view.

Feel free to PM me to set a time to meet at Payap if you wish to do so.