Mr Hippo's Day In Court

[beano2274]

We were told that there are 58 cases at the moment, the latest one was tried on Friday. No name was mentioned but he did tell us that the fake came from the University of Liverpool, the owner of it is in his mid to late 50s and has a child less than 12 months old - he was sentenced to 3 months in prison.

How are the arresting them and where? Is it a case of when you go to Immigration they lift you, or are they picking you up at home, which would be easier and quicker. If it was at Immigration, then it must be when they reapply for visas, are some still using the fake degrees to get a visa and Work permit? Must be difficult lifting you in the Immigration department with all those people there as well.

Must be simpler to go to your residence and arrest you, or even take your passport and make sure you cannot leave Thailand.

[mr_hippo]

How are the arresting them and where? Is it a case of when you go to Immigration they lift you, or are they picking you up at home, which would be easier and quicker. If it was at Immigration, then it must be when they reapply for visas, are some still using the fake degrees to get a visa and Work permit? Must be difficult lifting you in the Immigration department with all those people there as well. Must be simpler to go to your residence and arrest you, or even take your passport and make sure you cannot leave Thailand.

I can only speak about what happened to me.

My wife went to pick up my passport after its final approval for this year's extension or so we thought. She went in the morning and was told to go back at 2 o'clock. I had a phone call at home telling me that I had to go, in person, to Immigration to sign some papers. The Immigration lady who phoned me also phoned my wife. On arrival we were told that the official dealing with our case was busy and just wait. A chap appeared after about 30 minutes and ushered us to the lift, he told my wife that he was with Immigration Police and he thought that it was a case of misidentification - nothing suspicious so far, is there?

I was interviewed on the 5th floor of the main building and shown the evidence and I could not deny that the person they were interested in was me. I was told to wait in the corridor and after a small wait, another policeman wanted to interview me in his office so we went with him. His office was in the Immigration Police building next door. I was interviewed and fingerprinted and by this time it was after 5 o'clock and the courts were shut for the day so i was taken to the detention centre. Unfortunately, the next day was a holiday so I had to spend the day in there; I eventually went to court on Wednesday afternoon. If I was arrested earlier in the day then maybe my first court appearance would have been the same day.

Immigration knew about me last year but only after my last extension was approved so they waited until this year's extension. Is it easier to arrest people at home? It may be in some cases but think of the manpower hours that could be wasted, may involve multiple visits to your house to eventually find you in; your wife/partner may tip you off.

I am retired so it appears that if people have used fakes in the past and are now on either a marriage extension or retirement one, you are still at risk.

[YouYouYou]

hey Mr. Hippo, just perusing over the last comments for the week ....have you still not got your passport back? If so, I hope 'they' don't cause any further problems for you.

Also, listen to Mr. Hippo who has told you of the late 50's guy who got 3 months in the clink just the other day.

As another poster pointed out previously ...you can work without a degree (at some places) and thus you are legal ...you therefore are breaking no laws as you are telling no lies (I presume). You may not get the better or top jobs as a result, but surely this is better than facing the possibility of all the hassle Mr. Hippo has gone through and the poor farang in clink now.

Hope all is well Mr. Hippo, keep us all informed, cheers You You You.

[BigSnake]

No WP, No work, the power that be should go after the school also.

[Scott]

Did I miss something? I don't recall anything about not having a work permit. Most, but not all, people who present fake degrees, do so in order to get hired at a place that will provide benefits, such as a work permit.

[beano2274]

Immigration knew about me last year but only after my last extension was approved so they waited until this year's extension. Is it easier to arrest people at home? It may be in some cases but think of the manpower hours that could be wasted, may involve multiple visits to your house to eventually find you in; your wife/partner may tip you off.

Looking at the time span involved, they knew after May last year. It is surprising that we have not heard more about this.

Think about it, they knew after May last year, and have only arrested 2 people so far. Surely there are others on the list who must have done an extension before now.

To Mr Hippo, the information you give is well worth reading, and worth bearing in mind.

[twschw]

I would still like to know what the official charge was. Was it fraud?

[Phatcharanan]

I would still like to know what the official charge was. Was it fraud?

Does it really matter? Or are there personal concerns?

[Scott]

I am also interested in what the charge was and I don't have any personal concerns.

There are a lot of different ways that the officials could be approaching this. There approach might provide some insight into the elusive world of officialdom.

For example has the MOE been tasked with finding these people, but has decided not to deal with them? Did they give it to the police, who gave it to immigration? Do we have a new historical precedent of two agencies working together?

[Mario2008]

Labour could also be a player here, because of the work permit.

[harrry]

It could be that some of the people on the list have allready left the country as four years is a fair while. THey may be in for a nasty shock when they return. I hope things work out well for you Mr Hippo.

[Scott]

One of the reasons I am interested is because quite sometime ago I started a thread on fake degrees (different than the current one). At that time, we had a teacher who was caught by the MOE with a fake degree. This was announced to the school Admin at a meeting with the MOE personnel and it came as quite a shock. The Admin came back and told me to fire the teacher, which I refused to do, until we had a verification from the school that the degree was indeed a fake.

The degree was a fake, and the teacher was dismissed. There was no follow-up legal action.

The school was quite shocked that someone from the MOE had brought this up, since the teacher had been employed for a long time. I have often wondered how he got caught. Did someone report him? Because we had no reason to question his degree. Is someone actually checking these degrees--I don't think so, since it was obvious when I contacted the school, they were not cooperative and the MOE would not have gotten their cooperation. Do they have a list of 'clients' from Khao San Rd?

Interesting.

[Ijustwannateach]

The rumour was, a couple years back, that one of the fake degree mills had been 'busted' and their client list (through the cert copies themselves of course) was in the hands of the police.

From what I remember a few years before that, the schools had been made ultimately responsible for verifying degrees.

[beano2274]

The rumour was, a couple years back, that one of the fake degree mills had been 'busted' and their client list (through the cert copies themselves of course) was in the hands of the police.

Yes I remember that, when was it? I think it was 2006 !!!!

The idiot of an owner kept logs of the peoples names that bought the degrees instead of wiping the database clean. Also he kept some hard copies to show potential clients with peoples names on them.

[Scott]

I am not trying to take this thread off-topic, but the teacher we had who got busted had worked at the school since before 2000, as I recall. Over the years, I've come to know a number of teachers with fake degrees. At our school they are now all verified, but if someone is shaking the 'tree of fake degrees', I have a feeling a whole lot of people could come falling out of it.

So, of the 50+ people on the list, is that just from one area, or is that nation-wide? An overzealous MOE officer perhaps? An ovezealous immigration officer? An immigration officer whose wife/husband works for the MOE?

We could see some interesting times ahead since I think there are a lot of people who have fake degrees still out there.

[mr_hippo]

For those who are interested, the charge was fraud. Now, why are you interested?

Looking at the time span involved, they knew after May last year. It is surprising that we have not heard more about this.

Think about it, they knew after May last year, and have only arrested 2 people so far. Surely there are others on the list who must have done an extension before now.

Only two arrested, where did you hear that? I said in a previous post "We were told that there are 58 cases at the moment, the latest one was tried on Friday..." How many farangs are teaching in Thailand and how many of those are active members on this forum? Teachers sometimes do a 'runner', some wait until they have been paid and some do not! Has anyone disappeared lately from your school? I am not suggesting that they have been arrested but...

I have not seen the names on the list because it is none of my business and, to be brutally honest, the only case that I am interested in is mine!

The rumour was, a couple years back, that one of the fake degree mills had been 'busted' and their client list (through the cert copies themselves of course) was in the hands of the police.

The names of the clients are not that important! In my opinion, the names that 'they' are interested are the ones who signed the degrees. 'D B Cooper' (I don't know if they used that name) could not possibly have been the dean of Liverpool University. the Redneck University of Podunk, Wagga Wagga University and countless others in the same year, could he?

[Scott]

Thanks Mr. Hippo for your patience and understand with us.

Conspiracy theorists and paranoid people will have to wait for the next person arrested, I guess. That is if they are kind enough to share their plight.

[Phatcharanan]

We were told that there are 58 cases at the moment, the latest one was tried on Friday. No name was mentioned but he did tell us that the fake came from the University of Liverpool, the owner of it is in his mid to late 50s and has a child less than 12 months old - he was sentenced to 3 months in prison.

The cases of fraudulent degrees resulting in prison sentences for foreigners have, in the years I've been here. made the newspapers. Strange how there is no media information on this particular case. Until there is then I'm going to take that one with a pinch of salt.

[Scott]

Whether or not it is in the newspaper depends on a number of factors, including where it happens. Very often the police will have a 'crackdown' and the publicity and fanfare are evidence of their success. In this case, immigration may not see any point in garnering publicity. Someone may have some answering to do as to why nothing was done sooner.

It also requires some journalists to get off their butts and check things out.

[mr_hippo]

The cases of fraudulent degrees resulting in prison sentences for foreigners have, in the years I've been here. made the newspapers. Strange how there is no media information on this particular case. Until there is then I'm going to take that one with a pinch of salt.

I was only reporting what I was told. You say "The cases of fraudulent degrees..."; now are you talking about all cases, some cases, the majority of cases, the minority of cases? Are you privvy to some information that we mere mortals do not have? Are you sure that all cases made the papers?

[mrtoad]

We were told that there are 58 cases at the moment, the latest one was tried on Friday. No name was mentioned but he did tell us that the fake came from the University of Liverpool, the owner of it is in his mid to late 50s and has a child less than 12 months old - he was sentenced to 3 months in prison.

The cases of fraudulent degrees resulting in prison sentences for foreigners have, in the years I've been here. made the newspapers. Strange how there is no media information on this particular case. Until there is then I'm going to take that one with a pinch of salt.

Take it with a pinch of salt then. There is no reason for Mr Hippo to lie.

[idrankwhat]

Well, doing something without a degree is not an honest thing to do however; I will admit my father is one of the smartest men I know (not because he is my father) and he doesn't have a degree, my grandfather is exceptionally wealthy (pop finished the 9th grade) made his first mill when he was 35. I on the other hand am a class one felon with a big degree from a big university and I can never work in the USA or Canada again as well as most other English speaking countries I would care to live in. I can also never vote, own a firearm or get a real job let alone practice medicine for free in a clinic.

My crime was removing a bullet from a patient in New York City and not reporting it to the police mostly because I went to school with him and because his last name ended with a vowel. I lost my medical license paid $50,000 in fines and got 3 years probation during which I spent my time working in a smoke shop simply because they didn't do background checks for $9.00 per hour. Thailand was happy to take me as a hospital physician in a government hospital and pay me less a month than I used to pay in taxes. My criminal record was waived in Thailand and I am now a permanent resident but unlike most of you I really want to go home and live there but this is the punishment for my crime.

I hope that makes you feel better Mr.Hippo now we know who the real criminals are.

[Ijustwannateach]

Do let's try to stay on topic....

[FlavesEnt]

dam_n. That situation sucks, glad it worked out for you though.

[Phatcharanan]

The cases of fraudulent degrees resulting in prison sentences for foreigners have, in the years I've been here. made the newspapers. Strange how there is no media information on this particular case. Until there is then I'm going to take that one with a pinch of salt.

I was only reporting what I was told. You say "The cases of fraudulent degrees..."; now are you talking about all cases, some cases, the majority of cases, the minority of cases? Are you privvy to some information that we mere mortals do not have? Are you sure that all cases made the papers?

I'm not saying you are misleading. I'm saying that what you were TOLD, I would take with a pinch of salt.

Going back to your original case........are you now sure that Immigration (not the courts) have finished with your circumstances? For instance, the case involving a teacher from Nottingham, UK working at a well-known Catholic (all girls) school in Bang-Na, Bangkok..... March, 2007. Similar circumstances to yours, family etc. Fined, probation, deported 4 weeks after the case dealt with at court.

Edited June 24, 2009 by Phatcharanan

[YouYouYou]

Is the heat off Mr. Hippo? Passport back??

I see the last poster (Phatcharanan) pointed to a 4 week time delay with the 'court case' and 'deportation' of an individual.

Danged, hope all is well Mr. Hippo .... Good luck and keep us all updated ... what's the status at mo'?

Cheers, You You You.

[ThaiBrat]

I would like to assure all readers of this post by Mr Hippo is 100% FACT.

How do I know, well I was at the courthouse on that Friday when the person he has mentioned got 3 months sentence to jail. I am his friend and was there to help him through the process. YES the judge gave him 6 months but then downgraded him to 3 months because he admitted the degree from Liverpool was from Khaosan Road. Mr Hippo is also correct about his age and with a baby.

My friend is out on bail for 30days as I paid 60k bail bond on the day. After sentencing this took about 2 hours to get him released, but the jail keepers under the courthouse were under instructions only to release him back the IDC. (tea money) got him released to me and he is currently out of BKK, he now has a lawyer working with him to reduce the sentence as the IDC police said he should only get 3k fine and 3k court fees. So the lawyer is actually asking for a reducement from the court. The IDC police have not indicated deportation at this time, but we are not hopeful on this as they still hold his passport in Suan Plu IDC.

The information about the list of wanted people is exactly as we saw it. Also this is fact, those on the HIT list have already had a court order for your arrest put on you, so even if you have friends in high places they can not stop the process.

I have told my friend about this forum, and I would expect him to post here in the next day or so. I will also keep you informed on any progress on his case.

I would like to thank Mr Hippo for starting this thread as a warning to all of you with a fake degree.

TB

[Scott]

The above post is referring to the situation which was brought up by Mr. Hippo in post # 58, I believe.

Thanks for letting us know and we would be very happy to hear from the person directly, as well. Difficult situation for all involved.

[beano2274]

Theory

Maybe this is not the work of the different agencies but just the Police and Immigration. If Mr Hippo and the other teacher were at Private Schools, then when applying for a Visa or an Extension they would have had to have a copy of their degree with all the paperwork. After Police action in finding a list of names, they wanted to check who gave their office a false degree, so they checked the names against the paperwork supplied, and hey presto found (unluckily) Mr Hippo and the other teacher's fake degrees. As Mr Hippo then changed to another Visa, the documents did not follow, but they checked the computer for the status of his Visa, and he was caught when applying for an extension.

We all know that Thai Government offices cannot work together and also have no databases that could work together.

[Ijustwannateach]

EVERY time in Thailand when I have been encouraged to do some kind of illegal shortcut (usually by employers or their representatives!), I have refused- I never had the need to do so for degrees, but in my case when I was still a visa-runner in the first round of paperwork many years ago some people tried to get me to do those 'convenient' services where the passports were run over the border without the need for people to go on the trip.

EVERY time, later, I discovered that people who had taken such shortcuts had become legally implicated by a new 'crackdown' and some of them were even charged.

The lesson is- no matter how inconvenient or difficult it seems, and no matter how much assurance you are given about how an 'easy' but seemingly illegal 'workaround' is offerend- ALWAYS do it the difficult, frustrating, and legal way.