Wooden Shoreings (?) For Cement Forming Seem Very Expensive. 359k!

[Tigs]

Well I have been quoted 359 000 baht by the project manager for my house, for the wood to use for forming the concrete, using as scaffolding etc. Now that sounds like a lot of wood to me! The first thing I thought when I saw that price was 'christ is it Teak!' Am I building a palace! Well no, I am building a 4 bedroomed house. My question is what should happen with this very expensive resource? I am paying for it so I guess I own it. Can it be cleaned up and reclaimed for some value, say 50% or 60% I am having palpatations thinking of this being wasted. I need advice please!!

[Rimmer]

Building wood is expensive but that sounds too much. If you are paying for it then get your own prices and buy it yourself, most of the larger building shops (Homemart) have it stacked around the back. Your builder may have to come with you though to choose what sizes he wants but have your wife talk directly to the wood man and pay directly.

Once it's been used for form work it gets wet, cracks, warps and is only suitable for wheelbarrow ramps.

Scaffolding is usually Kyleeta trees or coconut you can see it stacked up on the side of the road. For a four bedroom house I think you should be able to get enough planks and Kyleeta for 200k

They will not form and pour the entire house in one go, they will do a little at a time and move the forms.

For that kind of money you can buy the steel or even the new plastic forms. Another option is to hire the steel forms which is what most builders do now days, as well as being quicker to construct the pour looks a lot crisper.

[Rimmer]

I just thought of something else, you can buy the proper steel scaffolding frames that you see everywhere for 1450 a set at Global House if there is one of those near you if not often the secondhand junk yards often have old sets or even new sets in stock.

One set is about six feet high comes with two sides, two cross braces and one top frame also four small tube inserts that allow you to set another frame on top and build them up.

They are useful to have around the house anyway for painting later and getting leaves out of the gutters, cut about six of your old form work planks to fit across the top and you have a good steady work platform

[Tigs]

Rimmer

Thanks, good info and good tips.

[khunandy]

Tigs,

I would seriously question that figure, my house (2 storey) was completely wrapped in Eucalyptus sapling scaffolding during construction and I think we were talking 40000 baht.

Hope you get it sorted

Andy

[mosass69]

Well I have been quoted 359 000 baht by the project manager for my house, for the wood to use for forming the concrete, using as scaffolding etc. Now that sounds like a lot of wood to me! The first thing I thought when I saw that price was 'christ is it Teak!' Am I building a palace! Well no, I am building a 4 bedroomed house. My question is what should happen with this very expensive resource? I am paying for it so I guess I own it. Can it be cleaned up and reclaimed for some value, say 50% or 60% I am having palpatations thinking of this being wasted. I need advice please!!

wow!!! that is a lot! I am in the final phase of building my first house in Bangkok. The first guy we got quoted me a price of 2,000,000 baht to do "my palace" through a friend i found this other local guy that agreed to build it only labor and let me buy all the supplies needed. Doing it this way I truly got to see the real cost.... saved me a fortune! I have done the entire house well under half the price of the original quote, and that is buying everything myself. They just tell me what they need and I go and get it. That is to say that everything in the house is top of the line and not the typical "low budget line" product. Contractors like to buy the cheapest and mark it up sooo for the same price I went out and got the best one and I choose the product line. style. quality!!! Either way i was going to pay the same price> FOOD FOR THOUGHT! Anyhow once you start building it you will want to watch them do it everyday as many Thais don't take much pride in their work. My line of thought is this is my retirement house, my sons house, and my wife's house... better to do it right the first time.

[DrDave]

Even though you didn't mention the size of the house footprint, I suspect that 359,000 baht for wood is way too much.

While the wood used to construct forms can be recycled for use elsewhere (primarily scaffolding and the fabrication of the framework on the roof eaves), chances are, you really don't need much expensive dimensional wood. In our case, the only place we used dimensional lumber was for the construction of the soffit framework at the eaves.

For scaffolding, it might be cheaper to buy some new/used scaffolding as Rimmer suggested, or perhaps use bamboo instead. We paid about 10 baht for each piece of bamboo about 2 to 2-1/2 inches diameter and 5-6 meters long. These can be tied together to make strong scaffolds.

One of the people on CTH advocates the use of "formless" construction for the concrete floor beams. Instead of using costly wooden forms, you simply lay out cheap concrete blocks in the trenches and pour the concrete between them, forming the beam. The concrete blocks remain permanently. You'd still need formwork for the columns and upper beams, however.

In any event, I'd look into buying only enough of the expensive dimensional lumber as you actually need for the finish components of the house. Use something cheaper (like bamboo or the small "logs") for things like scaffolding and column supports.

[kamalabob2]

All of the above answers make sense. You should consider some metal scaffolding which will come in handy for many projects once the house is built. Getting bird's nest, cleaning rain gutters, any high lamp placements, etc..

I did spend 60,000 baht on wood forms for my house that was EXTRA. My house building contract included ALL construction tools and materials, BUT only a few days before a large concrete beam pour the NUMBER OF DAYS EACH FORM SHOULD STAY IN PLACE changed how much wood the builder had bought to use for forms. We were not even to the NUMBER OF DAYS FOR WOOD FORMS TO STAY ON UPRIGHT COLUMNS. So unless you want the "one day O.K." and improperly cured concrete you might consider how much wood forms you really need, not just WHAT THE THAI BUILDERS "NORMALLY" DO.

To me buying EXTRA wood for forms was a cost I was obligated to bear since I never made it clear how many days I insisted wood forms stay on horizontal and vertical concrete. 28 days was about 21 days more than the builder had estimated each set of forms would stay in place and then the forms would be moved.

That wood gets beat up real bad, but it found some use in my wife's village after many months of use building our home. Better to use the "custom made" wood ladders and bamboo ladders than any metal ladders during construction. But ROLLING metal scaffolding seemed a great idea for some paint preparation and on the installation of gypsum ceilings. The metal support material for our 2nd floor gypsum ceilings was attached from a very tall metal scaffolding.

The painting contractors provided their own bamboo scaffolding as part of the painting labor contract. They allowed the rain gutter staff to use the bamboo scaffolding for part of that installation. When I realized in May of last year that perhaps even more rain gutters were a prudent investment the "village gutter" installer came back and made good use of the metal scaffolding I own.

[Rimmer]

I like the idea of bamboo scaffolding, they use it in Hong Kong to build high rises, Strong, light yet bends with the load.

I just bought one six meter length of bamboo for 18 baht for cutting off palm fronds whereas the kyleata when I was buying it was 22 baht for a 3 meter length.

That's a heck of a project you got there Kamalobob2 Is it finished now?

I like the floor beams cast off the grade, makes so much sense to have that space under the house even though it costs a bit more.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Rimmer

[kamalabob2]

Rimmer we moved into the house in May 2008 as it was 98% completed. It took a few more months to finish the garden and driveway exterior areas. The ground beams are raised up for many reasons including the installation of a anti-termite spray system and access to all water supply and drainage pipes. In the photo of the Termite staff person doing a chemical load near sandstone facing you can see how high up the house ground floor is from the grade level. Four front steps to the exterior veranda. The area under the two downstairs bathrooms is a bricked room with good access for any future pipe repairs and to attempt to prevent rodents from chewing through any pvc pipes. Truck loads of various types of wood forms and wood supports along with bamboo scaffolding was utilized for months during the construction. I am not game to build another home in Thailand. I enjoy knowing how this home was constructed and I learned quite a bit from Thai Visa forum on the various aspects of home building. For the O.P. he should sit down and speak with his building manager on how LONG each wooden form will stay in place to determine how much wood he actually needs. Plus be sure to have an electric concrete vibrator and be sure they use the concrete vibrator as they install concrete.

It lengthened the time to build this house since the staff had to wait for the concrete to "cure" in the wooden forms. They utilized wooden forms and proper curing times for not only the home, but the pool area and the garage. A "make work" project was to build the room under the ground floor bathrooms and to modify and chap the exterior property fence. The painters could only move the scaffolding after three days due to one coat of primer, next day first coat of Dulux paint, and third day 2nd coat of Dulux paint. If the OP buys his own bamboo for scaffolding, be sure to let the bamboo dry the correct time prior to usage.

[Rimmer]

Great pictures Kamalobob2 that's not a house it's a MANSION and I thought my build was big at 650 sq mtrs.

Gotta admire people who have the guts to do this though, it's not easy is it?

[excaliber]

This is common with most builders. The option is to dig out the footings/grade beams below grade, add your steel & concrete and eliminate all the wood forms. Even if you hire a backhoe you'll save money. All hardwoods in Thailand are expensive. If you do go with the wood forms and want to re-use them for facia's, trim, etc., you'll find that most of the wood is full of nail holes and of course covered with concrete; yes they can be cleaned up but in my experience, it's not worth the trouble. The concrete-block forms, as mentioned is another idea although your beams may not end up straight nor level... of course the wood forms are needed for the support columns unless you get creative and use large PVC pipes (hinged & latched), or concrete pipe and left in place. there are options....basically, the wood forms are another form of added rip off....