Confused German

[tudorw]

Any help appreciated please. My dear wife is getting grief from her friend in Koh Samui. The poor woman is sobbing down the phone and threatening to top herself because her dolt of a German boyfriend is doing nothing to support her in putting together a visa application.

We strongly suspect there may be good reasons for his lack of effort, but that's not for us to say. The original plan for settlement seems to have suddenly been downgraded to a holiday visa. Maybe that says it all. Alternatively it may just be that he thinks that's easier in some way, which we doubt.

She knows what supporting evidence we had to put together for a UK visa, how we did it and how long it took. He has done none of the groundwork. We imagine the requirements would be much the same. By way of excuse, it has been said that perhaps he's not very switched on (well, stupid was the word used) and always has a friend with him when visiting Thailand. He does sound odd.

So, other than just ignoring it the whole thing, thereby "making more head ache" for me when the poor woman calls the wife, where to start?

It's not so hard. We worked it all out from the Thailand-UK.com site and now live happily ever after in UK.

Does any member know of a link to a similar German site that we could send to him? Even if he can't do it himself, presumably his friend can help him out. I don't know any German speakers here.

Edited February 13, 2005 by tudorw

[the scouser]

Hi Tudor,

Sorry, I don't know in detail of the procedure for visas for Germany but here's a link to the documents that are required. It would appear that the sponsor needs to provide a written official invitation and if her b/f is dragging his feet it may be an effort getting him to fill it in.....

Scouse.

[Axel]

Guess I do understand your situation, but not sure what is required.

Are we talking about marriage in Germany?

You mention 'settlement' which is fairly difficult to explain. Visitor is a bit easier BUT German friend has to sponsor the visa, which means among other things, he has to proof sufficient funds to support the visitor, i.e. regular income/job etc. Travel insurance must be covered.

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/aamt...ice/faq/kat0/F9

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/laen...id=Vertretungen

Try above links. There is a hon. Consul in Phuket, maybe good to talk initially, although he would have to pass on all paperwork to Bangkok. The embassy in turn needs the paperwork from Germany.

The final visa, if granted will be valid for all Shengen states.

Oopps, you mention the capabilities of the boyfriend. In dubio pro reo. Maybe he has all good intentions just doesn't understand what he want and what is required.

Unfortunately, just these days one sub-minister (secretary) retired and the Foreign Minister is kept responsible by the opposition party for weak control in the Ukraina embassy which let to a few hundredthousand illegal visa and entrants that disappeared in the Shengen states. A bit of a bad timing at the moment. Still, if all documents are in order and support is cledar, any kind of visa will be granted.

For visits the most important criteria is a guarantee that she will return to Thailand. I.e. job, house etc.

Wish them good luck and perhaps first stay on a visit to find out how it works out together, before getting married.

[tudorw]

Thanks for that. It's got me searching in better places at least.

Apologies for disparaging remarks about the German boyfriend. "Dragging his feet" is a much kinder description than the one I was hearing from the Thai end of all this. I guess I'm now just happily henpecked and accustomed to believing what I'm told.

By 'settlement' I was thinking in UK type visa language, married in Thailand and settling in Germany permanently, with a view to citizenship.

A few phone calls later the upshot is that the girlfriend is holding firm on marriage or nothing. The boyfriend he has caved in to that. Marriage was the original plan anyway.

The downside is that I have been assigned the task of filling in the form when we return to LOS soon. Ah well. Here to help.

The German embassy in Bangkok has an Application form and some help documents with Thai translation. It's an uphill struggle to get the missus to translate those from Thai to English to help me.

German Embassy Bangkok

But I could still use a link for a German visa support forum. Surely there must be one if the flock of mia falangs with German spouses in my wife's home area is anything to go by. But I can't get any help from there, from here. Any suggestions?

[worldfun]

well I'm a EU non (native) german speaker now living in germany & considering the various options of visas to use for a visiting TGF at the moment.

it seems from what I read here & elsewhere at least that there's some 'options' for married as well as unmarried couples apart from the 90days schengen visa.

we're looking into study or 'long visit' 90++days residence permit, but I was hoping to get some experience from someone who succesfully have been there previously?

e.g. does the purpose of studying english qualify or would it have to be german only & an intensive 20+ hours a week as mentioned on one of those embassy webs?

how about simply providing the same docs as for a short stay(invitation letter, finances, proof of job in LOS, proof of serious relation etc.) but requesting e.g. 6 months or 12 months that should work at least in theory right?

alternatively I see no other path than marrying & by judging by various statements the residence/family reunication process would be much easier if e.g. marrying unofficially in LOS with her family & then filing officially in Germany e.g. while on tourist visa?

so any way to actually avoid going back home to LOS for her if she would be getting married in germany on schengen visa???

have fun

[the scouser]

Hi Worldfun,

I know little of the German immigration requirements but I would think that in order to get your g/f a student visa it would have to be for the sake of the studies rather than the means to the end of just getting her in to Germany. Also, if she were to seek entry to Germany in order to learn English I would think that the German visa officer would believe it strange that she wishes to do this in Germany rather than, for example, the U.K.

I'm not suggesting that you should marry your g/f just to get her in to Germany, but it would make the application so much easier. As an EU national exercising your treaty rights in Germany you are allowed to have your spouse join you with no questions asked and the "visa" is free. You just have to show that you are lawfully married and that you have the means to support her in Germany. The only instances in which such an application can be refused are if either the marriage is not lawful, or you don't have the means to support her, or on public policy grounds; i.e. serious criminal record, a carrier of nasty diseases, or barking mad.

If you choose to go down this route, however, you would have to marry her outside of Germany and then apply for her family permit. Should you seek to marry her in Germany then she would require a usual-type visa as at the time of application she wouldn't be your spouse.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[worldfun]

scouser,

appreciate your reply as it seems there's few coming up with actual experiences in this area.

any idea as to processing/waiting time for 'family' visa?

Ok then I'll ask at german immigration one of these days

Edited March 24, 2005 by worldfun

[the scouser]

Worldfun,

In theory the family permit should be issued on the day of application as to delay it would hinder your freedom of movement and be a breach of EU law. Should they not be able to make a decision on the day then the reason for this has to be explained to you and any delay has to be kept to a minimum. However, having said that, a member posted on here recently that his wife's family permit for Ireland took a few months to approve. I would think the Krauts would be a bit more efficient, though. My wife recently obtained a family permit for Germany from the embassy in London. It was agreed on the date of application and we received the passport and permit back 2 days later by post.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[the scouser]

Here's a link to the UK German embassy site. It doesn't really tell you anything that you don't know already, so perhaps, if you are in Germany, speak to the local "Auslaenderamt (?)"

Scouse.

[worldfun]

I just came across this 'new' german bilingual 'manual', which among other things explains the rights for foreigners living in Germany & particulary this part worries me:

" Family members who are normally allowed to join a person already resident in Germany include the person’s spouse (see a), the person’s children (see and in individual cases also other family members (see c).

* a) Spouses have the right to come to Germany if the partner already living in Germany has a settlement permit ("Niederlassungserlaubnis"), and also in some cases if he/she has a residence permit ("Aufenthaltserlaubnis"). With the latter group ("Aufenthaltserlaubnis"), this right only applies if the partner living in Germany is a recognised refugee, or has possessed a residence permit for five years, or the marriage already existed at the point at which the third-country national arrived in Germany and the duration of his/her residency is expected to last more than one year. In cases where these conditions are not met (for instance if the marriage occurs after the person has moved to Germany), then the authorities have the discretion to decide themselves."

And here I noted the last sentence 'authorites have the discretion to decide themselves' in the case of an EU citizen having 'only' residence permit & having married his spouse after moving to germany???

Link here: http://www.handbuch-deutschland.de/book_en.html

[the scouser]

Worldfun,

Your rights to freedom of movement and to have your spouse live with you are fundamental to European law so it appears to me that the information provided in your post only applies to those nationals whose spouse is neither German nor an EU/EEA national.

Scouse.

[worldfun]

ok I assume what you meant was that regardless of the nationality of the spouse it applies to residents in germany without EU nationality?

i.e. my own situation of being non german EU national (danish) & considering having my thai g/f or spouse join me in germany should pretty much guarentee the spouse access within the conditions of e.g. ability to support her, having large enough apt. etc.

so basically us EU nationals with non EU spouses need not worry at all. only perhaps about the paperwork involved LOL

[the scouser]

ok I assume what you meant was that regardless of the nationality of the spouse it applies to residents in germany without EU nationality?

I'm sorry, but being British I can't expect to write English as well as a Scandinavian.

i.e. my own situation of being non german EU national (danish) & considering having my thai g/f or spouse join me in germany should pretty much guarentee the spouse access within the conditions of e.g. ability to support her, having large enough apt. etc.

so basically us EU nationals with non EU spouses need not worry at all. only perhaps about the paperwork involved LOL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly! The following link explains it better than I can. Click here.

Cheers,

Scouse.

Edited March 24, 2005 by the scouser

[worldfun]

Good link again there, but as with many EU laws, rights whatever it all depends how each member country interprets & implement it. forthermore I believe there was a 2 year timeframe(from 2004) untill in full effect.

Anyways surely a great text & fair right. And it surely will put pressure on some less foreigner friendly countries like e.g. denmark who seem to at the moment getting away with deniyng this right for their nationals who have resided overseas, married & failed to get family visa for their spouses

[the scouser]

Worldfun,

The laws are already in place. This document just brings together under one roof all of the disparate legislation.

Also, that's the beauty of this legislation in your situation. It would be easier for you as a Dane to take you wife to Germany than for a German married to a Thai.

Cheers,

Scouse.

[worldfun]

well cool - I feel lucky ;>