Political Parallels Between Iran And Thailand

[Carib]

Well congrats guys with another topic discussing US foreign policy and how the place should be run.

Start a topic, sideswipe Thailand in to it to make it legit and fire away. Post 10 and 17 are mine, and already pointed this out.

Muslim hatred is always the next thing to appear as it did, and of course nuking the goddamn place which doesn't comply with the modern western way of keeping the peace, whatever that may be, the world has not seen very much of that lately.

Please read some of the threats made in this topic again, addressed to a people and individuals as well, made by simple nobodies in their own society. The arrogance and blood thirst is dripping from some posts. How sad.

[Richard W]

Although I abhor the the comparison, Buddhists didnt bomb NY.

When did Shiites bomb New York?

Iran prohibits all religions except Islam...

Which is presumably why there are four seats in the Majlis reserved for Christians, Jews and even Zoroastrians.

[oldsparrow]

BusyB

***

Thank you for your comment. To save to space on this Iran-Thailand thread, if you want to see my idea on the Thai local matter please have a look at my previous posts page 8. I had posted some on the thread "Do you still support the 2006 coup?".

[BusyB]

BusyB

***

Thank you for your comment. To save to space on this Iran-Thailand thread, if you want to see my idea on the Thai local matter please have a look at my previous posts page 8. I had posted some on the thread "Do you still support the 2006 coup?".

hi oldsparrow, sorry it took me so long to respond - been busy ...

thanks for the pointer, unfortunately i can't locate the thread you're referring to now. i spotted it when it first posted, but didn't bother looking in 'cos i always thought the coup was a bad idea, even to remove thaksin who i felt had gone completely overboard by then. can you give me a more specific target to home in on?

regards

[Plus]

In the past couple of days I learned that Ahmadinejad won by eleven million votes, that's not a small number that can be blamed in vote rigging. I also learned that his opponent was a Prime Minister during Iran hostage crisis, among other things, so it's silly to presume he is some voice for democracy and freedom. He seems to be just a sore loser trying to win sympathy from ignorant West by refusing to accept his loss and creating mayhem on the streets, and, boy, did they fall for it!

>>>

MayBeLater, in last elections here the current opposition got only 36% of the vote, and many of their MPs have left since then, and more are going to leave as soon as they are legally allowed.

What is funny is that Democrat party, the ruling coalition leader, want to break up with some stubborn partners and rely on votes from dissident MPs in the opposition instead.

The opposition represents the majority of population only in their own heads, and, apparently, yours.

The parallel is that when they clearly lost the parliament battle, the opposition here, just like in Iran, took to the streets instead, and tried to overthrow the Thai state by force (the whole state, not just the current government).

[JR Texas]

In the past couple of days I learned that Ahmadinejad won by eleven million votes, that's not a small number that can be blamed in vote rigging. I also learned that his opponent was a Prime Minister during Iran hostage crisis, among other things, so it's silly to presume he is some voice for democracy and freedom. He seems to be just a sore loser trying to win sympathy from ignorant West by refusing to accept his loss and creating mayhem on the streets, and, boy, did they fall for it!

>>>

MayBeLater, in last elections here the current opposition got only 36% of the vote, and many of their MPs have left since then, and more are going to leave as soon as they are legally allowed.

What is funny is that Democrat party, the ruling coalition leader, want to break up with some stubborn partners and rely on votes from dissident MPs in the opposition instead.

The opposition represents the majority of population only in their own heads, and, apparently, yours.

The parallel is that when they clearly lost the parliament battle, the opposition here, just like in Iran, took to the streets instead, and tried to overthrow the Thai state by force (the whole state, not just the current government).

In both Iran and Thailand, large segments of the population are taking political action to make their lives better (at least actions that they think will make their lives better).......obvious parallel.

In Iran, however, I the opposition if more sophisticated and educated than their Thai counterparts. I also think that they are intent on a massive revolution.......total cultural shift from the past.

In Iran, the target of the opposition seems to be the entire ruling apparatus (the power elite). It appears to be more unified......the exploited masses are less divided.

I think the opposition in Thailand has less lofty goals. It is not as unified.......both reds and yellows are being exploited, yet they fight each other now really knowing who else to fight.

If the reds and yellows got together, they might look more like the opposition in Iran at the moment.

Maybe I am way off..........I am not really sure.

[Plus]

I'm not sure Iranian opposition wants to take on Ayatollah and the regime itself, and their leader, Mosawi, looks a bit like Thaksin in that sense - he quite enjoyed the system himself and turned into a sworn enemy only when he lost, and the proposed alternatives do not look better in anyway. They are both caricatures of democracy, not the "real thing".

Ahmadinejad, I read, doesn't draw his presidential salary and lives off his university job instead. He even refused to move to presidential quarters from his modest house in poor neighbourhood until secret service insisted they can't guarantee his safety there. He also makes all his ministers to fully disclose their assets and monitors them to make sure they don't steal while in office.

A but Chamlongish, I would say.

>>>>

This parallel searching is misleading, imo. It appears Iranians have a totally different view of the world and totally different values, and their internal struggles do not fit in our western "democracy vs dictatorship" narrative, the narrative the proposed "parallels" are seeking to validate. It just isn't there.

[Jingthing]

In starting this thread, I was most certainly not asserting that Thailand and Iran are similar countries or cultures. I was asserting both countries are going through historic times of change and there were some interesting similarities and differences perhaps worth looking at.

Now that Iran is more or less slowly or quickly exploding, consider this quote from the Washington Post describing the ingredients for revolution in ANY country. How much of this applies to Thailand?

Jack Goldstone, a professor at George Mason University who studies revolutions, sees a three-stage process that leads to regime change. First, members of the elite defect and form an opposition; then the nation polarizes and coalitions are formed; and then the mass mobilization. These three elements of the revolutionary process are already present. The ferment will ripen as the regime tries to avert step four -- its demise.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...id=opinionsbox1

Edited June 24, 2009 by Jingthing

[HagenvonTronje]

shooting at unarmed protesters. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSgGXMuqJlE what a brave reaction to it.

bbc turned it's homepage green, - coincidence or to protest the ban of international journalists in Iran

This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions.

true asdl, bangkok

[HagenvonTronje]

I reckon the poor farmer in Iran and Thailand have a lot in common!

By all means, please elaborate. This has gotta be good ...

As does the Bangkok yuppie with the Tehran yuppie.

Yeah, that ol' TV sure has been full of Bangkok yuppies getting "wood shampoos" from the police this week.

meanwhile:

Social-Cultural News

Promotion of Thai Food and Hospitality in Iran

The Royal Thai Embassy in Tehran participated in the Iran Food and Hospitality Fair 2009, held at the Tehran International Permanent Fairground on 24-27 May 2009. Thailand was one of the few countries taking part in the Fair which had their own national pavilions.

22 มิถุนายน 2552 11:40:22

The Embassy showcased a variety of Thai foods for approximately 400 Iranians to sample each day, such as barbecued chicken Thai-style, Thai sticky rice, green curry with chicken, Thai spicy salad, curried fish cakes, deep fried sea bass with sweet chili sauce, pumpkin in coconut cream, mixed fruit jelly, sweet sticky rice in coconut cream, and grounded soybean in egg yolk. This event was in line with the national policy to promote Thai cuisine all over the world. At present, there is only one Thai restaurant all over Iran, and the sampling of Thai foods at the Fair will definitely help Iranians become more aware of how delicious Thai cuisine is.

The Embassy also demonstrated fruit and vegetable carving which reflects part of Thailand’s rich and unique culture. Leaflets in English and in Farsi about tourist attractions in Thailand were disseminated, and DVDs on Thai tourism and hospitality shown.

Around 100,000 Iranians are expected to visit Thailand this year, an increase from 86,000 last year and 60,000 in 2007.

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2651.php?id=22601

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Iran’s Cultural Week in Thailand

Iran’s Cultural Week will be held in Thailand as part of programs to mark the 30th anniversary of the 1979 Islamic Revolution’s victory.

According to a report by Public Relations Department of the Islamic Culture and Relations Organization, the event will be attended by the head of the organization, Mehdi Mostafavi, which is being organized in cooperation with Iran’s Cultural Office in Thailand and Thammasat University, IRNA reported.

Programs, including exhibitions of handicrafts, photos, books and posters and screening of Iranian films and the performance of a religious hymn by a Thai Muslim group, will be implemented during the week.

A one-day seminar on commonalities between Islam and Buddhism as well as Iran-Thailand ties is also on the agenda.

Articles on historical ties between Iran and Thailand will also be presented during the event.

A seminar themed “Achievements of Islamic Revolution“ is another program to be held in Thammasat University on February 8.

Some 30 Thai Muslim and non-Muslim elites, who played a crucial role in cultural activities and supported the Islamic Revolution, will be awarded during the week.

http://www.iran-daily.com/1387/3335/html/iranica.htm

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Iran, Thailand Promote Tourism

Tehran, Jan. 21, 2009: Thailand ambassador to Tehran, Kriangsak Kittichaisaree, says his country is ready to expand ties with Iran in tourism, cultural and agricultural spheres.

Kittichaisaree made the remarks in a meeting with Tehran Times and Mehr News Agency director Parviz Esmaeili on Tuesday.

He said Iran-Thailand ties are 400 years old. For example, he said, a person named Sheikh Ahmad Qomi had emigrated from Qom to Thailand who later became prime minister.

Kittichaisaree added the Qomi family is well-known in Thailand. He said a statue of Sheikh Ahmad Qomi is going to be built in Qom to signify cultural affinities between the two nations.

The ambassador said Sheikh Ahmad Qomi represents a concrete example of cultural ties between the two Asian countries.

He also said Thailand is the second most important destination for Iranian tourists after the United Arab Emirates.

Every year about 86, 000 Iranian tourists visit Thailand 38 percent of whom are constant visitors to the country, he noted.

http://www.chnpress.com/news/?section=1&id=2010

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a short overview on the relationship between the both countries (business too) can be found at the webpage of the Ministry Of Foreign Affairs (thai language only)

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2386.php?id=354

[Jingthing]

Well, that's interesting, but this topic really has nothing to do with trade relations between Iran and Thailand ...

[HagenvonTronje]

Well, that's interesting, but this topic really has nothing to do with trade relations between Iran and Thailand ...

why not? wouldn't it make sense to have a look at the bilateral relationship if you are searching for parallels between both countries?

or gain knowledge about the fact that recently some 30 Thai Muslim and non-Muslim elites have been awarded for their cultural activities and support for the islamic revolution in Iran? and other things that worked ou without your New Jersey viewpoint and definition if both countries are "real democracies" or not. that they track back their relations to old cultural ties many centuries ago ( a concept that is maybe foreign to a new jersey socialized) cultural roots much older than the new world and based on other concepts than the european enlightenment.

[Jingthing]

Where did you get the idea that I am from New Jersey?

Anyway, I don't follow your logic. The ties between the two countries are irrelevant to the idea of the topic -- to compare and contrast the similarities and differences of their respective political crises.

Edited June 24, 2009 by Jingthing

[Plus]

So the former Prime Minister during the American hostage crisis is calling for regime overthrow, even if he clearly lost an election.

That's a parallel, seeing how reds don't accept that the govt has the majority of elected MPs.

Will it be like Ukranian orange revolution that brought about a thoroughly corrupt, lawless and ineffective government? That's another parallel for you - it was all in the name of democracy there, too, and they overthrown Russian puppets.

Or Georgian revolution that brought us Nato/US sponsored aggression against some breakaway republic? I don't remember if the current govt there came through elections, but they definitely had their share of "people's revolutions".

Or how about Philippines - another people revolution that went sour (against Estrada).

The traditional mantra that regimes are evil and people revolutions are good doesn't seem to work anymore, as madmen and dictators of all sorts learned to manipulate the crowds to perfection.

[EndofDays]

Although I abhor the the comparison, Buddhists didnt bomb NY.

When did Shiites bomb New York?

Iran prohibits all religions except Islam...

Which is presumably why there are four seats in the Majlis reserved for Christians, Jews and even Zoroastrians.

Wow, that is a real base of power there...not for show at all...

[HagenvonTronje]

Anyway, I don't follow your logic. The ties between the two countries are irrelevant to the idea of the topic -- to compare and contrast the similarities and differences of their respective political crises.

Ohh, I didn't know that your idea of the topic to compare would exclude to have also a look how the two objects of your study act to and view each other. and that it is not logic to add some details, collect some information, some facts that maybe should be considered, before coming to some conclusion and make some statements. And I added this information to some dispute if there is something common between the people of the same socio-economic groups of both countries.

What it seems to be is that both countries know each other well. Intercultural and interreligious exchange without asking Uncle Sam & Uncle Tom for permission or that you even had noticed. Doesn’t fits in your concept that the internationally considered as NUTTERs of Tehran holding a "Cultural Week" in Bangkok to celebrate 30th anniversary of the 1979 Islamic Revolution’s victory and holding also some seminars at the Thammasat University. Doing business without the help of the liberator and crusader, talking about sufficiency without western values.

Maybe you wouldn't had a problem with it if I had posted something more dated material, the Iran and Thailand under Thaksin or so, you could keep your internationally considered as NUTTER argument, right? Didn't you came up in the past with some Obama and Mark M16 parallels?

The logic? - a short list and collection of some stereotypes, prejudices and fatuitous conclusion from a narrow-minded viewpoint, determined by US-centric bias.

There is not any big revolutionary situations in both countries, there are just infights (okay, in case of Iran maybe partly instigated by an outside force), that’s all. Nobody here or there really question the system, not a historic times of change or the advent of something new that never been there before.

I also do not think that there has been any major change in power in the US of A., recently. Still the same, to claim anything else is exaggerating and hyperbole. oddly but particular in this case a trait of whiteness. do-gooder fully convinced of themselves that they do-better, delusional beliefs in superiority. What you can do only America can do, “something not really possible in Iran or Thailand.“

Now that animal triste

can be fight off, ever up-to-date on the twitter channels you can feel with some other change team. The media creates for them some live feed they can believe in.

If you want, you can find some parallels between stock characters of the past and the now. Looks little bit like a repeat in history. All around to what happen in Iran of the 1950s, there is the Persian fairytale that turned to a tragic love story, Princess Soraya .most loved by the yellow press and glossy mags and their readers.

2009 needs much more action, fast cuts, new channels, short cuts, abbreviation to keep the high pace, consumer of nowadays media are used too. This time a much more tragic story of an Iranian woman. Her last seconds brought her internet fame and a Nachleben as an icon and symbol for somewhat we will never know if she was part off.

The idea of the topic was to provide yourself some emotional vent, you had the urge to talk something and did it without much clue or knowledge on the subject. Sometimes is that 'Just do it' a good way to choose.

Your argumentation on this issue lacks, surprisingly, your usual choice of words when it comes to the so red shirt protest. Your typical vocabulary would include SCUM , red violent thugs , crazy RED SHIRT anarchists , revolution attempt by a wanted fugitive and so on. And your support that peoples protests get cracked down by the military. But with the new propaganda direction in favour of a ''green revolution' it's difficult to keep ranting about peoples protests in Bangkok. And claims that the Leader of that “change to new hope/where is my vote” movement is responsible for executions of ten thousands of people, get just simply ignored or qualified by our American Friend. Nothing to worry, Jingthing says, mass murderer or not, the message is important, more dangerous is in contrast the cult of personality that surrounded Obama, Abhisit rrm Thaksin.

Ahhh, quick checking that words with the searchengine I found one other of your US-centric rants. To smear Ortega after he gave your hate object Thaksin as much as possible you mentioned also that Nicaragua is close to Iran. After someone said that isn’t much to worried about you got in full propaganda mood "Iran is a fundamentalist Islamic state where gay people are murdered, where women are oppressed, where the president denies the holocaust and threatens the stability of the entire middle east (not only Israel) with their nuke program and is a specific threat to Israel which it intends to wipe off the map (their words) for their hoped for second holocaust. And Ortega is close with Iran. As is Chavez. Got it now?

So I guess you must have got a heart attack after reading that these evil Mullahs of Iran holding seminars at Thammasat and Thailand gestures of friendships towards Iran as well, and that all under Abhisit.

To make one clear thing clear, i have nothing against your Obama, I just doubt there will be any significant change in US foreign politics, and i also didn't comment much about US foreign policy. Assume that Obama is really much better than Bush, in domestic policies maybe, that would not affect any foreign country so much. Nor can the US American expect that foreign Nations follow that much this odd leadership cult , and election that awards the winner of a competition who blows up more balloon on travelling political funfairs. If you like it, enjoy it, but don't demand that i am get excited about.

Anyway being an Obama supporter doesn’t gives you some kind of magic blessing that puts you above suspicion to be act and think in the same pattern like a right wing redneck.

[Jingthing]

Glad I could facilitate your well researched RANT. Now back to the topic if anyone is interested.

[Jingthing]

Aha! I knew I was on to something with this topic. It seems I am not the only one who thinks that comparing Thailand to Iran is a fruitful inquiry:

The street protests in Iran have shown that Khamenei's political standing is not unassailable. If he were to abuse his power, including a role in the indirect manipulation of the election outcome, the elected Assembly of Experts has the power to remove him. Perhaps Iran does have its democratically elected checks and balances. The events now transpiring in Iran could in the future have particular relevance in Thailand. The significance in the present time could only be imagined through a painful contrasting exercise by the not so proper, nor superficial, thinking mind. The results of such an exercise is something that Thais must come to grip with, whatever the answer may be

Is Iran More Democratic Than Thailand?

http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/1264

Edited June 25, 2009 by Jingthing

[Spee]

So the former Prime Minister during the American hostage crisis is calling for regime overthrow, even if he clearly lost an election.

The first part is true, but the current Ayatollah was the military leader during that period as well. Having all the power of religion, supreme ruler and military under the beck and call of a single man, is pretty scary stuff.

For the second part, there are many who would like to debate the election results. The party line is that the little creton won in a landslide. Alternatively, there is a published document (widely ignored by the mainstream media):

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/comme...ll-1707896.html

According to this and other articles, this letter is purported to state:

"Interior Ministry's letter to the Supreme Leader

Salaam Aleikum.

Regarding your concerns for the 10th presidential elections and due to your orders for Mr Ahmedinejad to be elected President, in this sensitive time, all matters have been organised in such a way that the results of the election will be in line with the revolution and the Islamic system. The following result will be declared to the people and all planning should be put in force to prevent any possible action from the opposition, and all party leaders and election candidates are under intense surveillance. Therefore, for your information only, I am telling you the actual results as follows:

Mirhossein Mousavi: 19,075,623

Mehdi Karroubi: 13,387,104

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: 5,698,417

Mohsen Rezai: 38,716

(signed on behalf of the minister)"

Possibly this document is indeed political propaganda, but given recent events, it is hardly worthy of ignoring.

As for the Iranian Constitution mentioned in the previously referenced article comparing Thailand and Iran, it is quite a stretch to state that the constitution is by, of and for the people. It is also quite a stretch to think that the two Constitutions are in any way alike, as the writer suggests.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_...epublic_of_Iran

"Due to the non-elected elements brought into the constitution, and the ability of those elements to override all elected offices, the Iranian constitution does not ultimately allow for any real democratic participation beyond what is deemed appropriate by the non-elected bodies."

In that basis, one can say what they want to about Thailand's struggling democracy and Constitution, but they are completely unlike the sham democracy and Constitution in Iran. For those people in Thailand who caused disruptions last year and this, and who want country people to only have 1 vote for 5 people while city people keep 1 man, 1 vote, they are the ones to really be worried about. If they can get a person's vote reduced to from 1 to 0.2, then they could just as easily make it 0.1 or eliminate the right to vote altogether.

[HagenvonTronje]

So the former Prime Minister during the American hostage crisis is calling for regime overthrow, even if he clearly lost an election.

The first part is true, but the current Ayatollah was the military leader during that period as well.

Mousavi was one of the Hezbollah founders as well and an important figure in the Iran–Contra affair.

Interesting to see that the green colour of the reform movement did not arouse some suspicions amongst the islamophobes. Green is the colour of the Islam per se, the venerated colour of the religion. Green is the cover of the Quran, of green silk are the clothes they wear in paradise, the carpets and cushions where you hang out in paradise are green as well. The qibla arrow often comes in green. Look at the flag of Saudi Arabia or Libya. In addition, al-Gaddafi wrote also his Green Book of Revolution.

The reformers spouse Zahra Rahnavard, dubbed by some totally nuts as the Iranian Michelle Obama. In the Photo below you can see the popular female anti-Ahmadinejad activist showing some moves of a marvellous flag dance, that, as a connoisseur of modern dramatic dance had admit, creative the traditional dance with reform methods combined, an Oriental New Classical without becoming Burlesque. The image of the new Iranian woman, aged, but still full of esprite and self-expression without degrade herself to a cheerleader or pinup girl (no bare arms!), but keeping valuable gender role intact.

[emancipationthailand]

Thank god! No one has posted this yet. So, i find this article relevant to the discussions here, and it should be interesting for those who had not seen it yet.

Source : asiasentinel

Title : Is Iran More Democratic Than Thailand?

A painful comparison for the "thinking mind"

When angry demonstrators recently took to the streets in Iran, the seething masses claiming that they had been robbed of true democracy recalled recent protest scenes in Thailand. An obvious and dangerous trend in international politics is that when any demagogue-type politician wins a landslide election, the opposition claims vote fraud and in many cases sends its supporters into the streets to stir unrest.

Nobody has yet appointed a color to Iran's street revolution, but the storyline of angry supposedly pro-democracy demonstrators is now familiar, and in many instances represents a graver threat to democracy than the supposedly authoritarian leaders they are protesting against.

Vladimir Putin's election triumphs in Russia have been widely lamented by opposition critics and foreign media, who have claimed he aims to become a new age Czar or latter-day Stalin bent on reestablishing the Soviet empire. Hugo Chavez's election wins in Venezuela have likewise been lamented by some outside the country due to his populism and export of anti-American policies in Latin America.

But it is in Thailand, where angry street mobs have for the past three and a half years challenged the legitimacy of successive democratically elected governments, that the structural parallels are starkest with Iran. Former Thai premier Thaksin Shinawatra, who notched two thumping election victories and a legally contested third, was criticized by his detractors for establishing a parliamentary dictatorship through his consolidation of power and was toppled in a 2006 coup.

In a true democracy, an elected leader does not lose his legitimacy just because he is opposed by powerful minority forces, nor do those forces have the right to extra-constitutionally remove a democrat leader.

Whether Iran may be considered a functioning democracy depends on the presence of functioning accountability mechanisms able to challenge the ruling establishment led by Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Iranian voters head to the polls every four years to elect their president and 290 members of a unicameral legislature. However candidates for parliament or president are vetted by a 12-member Guardian Council that allows the religious establishment to decide who runs in elections.

Iran's Guardian Council is dominated by loyalists to the Supreme Leader, who directly appoints six of the body's 12 members. The other six are appointed by the elected parliament, but with choices pre-screened by the head of the judiciary, who is also appointed by the Supreme Leader. In effect the Guardian Council, which plays the role of deciding the country's electoral choices, is directly answerable to the Supreme Leader.

The Guardian Council's veto powers are in some ways analogous to the situation in Thailand. For instance, Thailand's election commission is essentially appointed by a group of judges. The presidents of three main courts, two other judges selected by another group of judges, and two elected politicians from the ruling coalition and the opposition make up the Thai commission's selection committee.

The five-to-two domination by unelected judges, officially appointed by an unelected head of state over those with democratic accountability make for an undemocratic screening process dominated by the conservative legal establishment. Hence the role of judges in Thailand, in some ways, mirrors that of the Guardian Council in Iran.

But Iran's Guardian Council is not its most undemocratic institution; that role is reserved for Khamenei, who has the power to appoint the heads of the judiciary, state-owned broadcast networks and the armed forces; he also has final say over defense and foreign policy as commander-in-chief.

Iran's Supreme Leader wields powers akin to those of an ancient monarch or modern day dictator. It is Khamenei's unelected status that is behind the opinion that Iran needs to go through a political revolution to undo the excesses of its 1979 religious revolution.

It is thus interesting, from a pro-election perspective, that the top governing structure of Iran's Islamic theocracy has its democratic aspects ‑ at least in the electoral sense. While Iran's Supreme Leader is widely portrayed in the mainstream media as an unelected dictator, Khamenei spent decades moving up the ranks as a religious scholar. Through his perceived learnedness among peers and senior title holders, he earned a coordinating political role from influential clerics.

He later served eight years as president under Ayatollah Khomeini, the leader of the 1979 revolution, proving his leadership skills, religious expertise and devoutness. With all that in mind, prior to becoming Supreme Leader, Khamenei's qualifications were put to an 86-member Assembly of Experts for consideration.

That assembly, which also has the power to remove the Supreme Leader, is a deliberative body of Islamic scholars elected directly by the general public every eight years. Assuming that these Islamic scholars perform their representative role, in the political sense they have the power and ability to check the "absolute" powers of the Ayatollah Khamenei.

Though it is often argued that in practice the Assembly of Experts have never exercised their powers to challenge or check the Supreme Leader's decisions (though the minutes of their twice-yearly meetings are not published, so this is debatable), in technical terms the Iranian Constitution provides for a checking and balancing mechanism that reflects the country's religio-cultural traditions within the framework of a modified conservative democracy.

Iran's Assembly of Experts is also in charge of supervising, dismissing and electing the Supreme Leader, and in the event of his death, resignation or dismissal, the body is vested with the power to take steps in the shortest possible time to appoint a new leader.

According to the Iranian Constitution, "Whenever the Leader becomes incapable of fulfilling his constitutional duties, or loses one of the qualifications mentioned in the Constitution, or it becomes known that he did not possess some of the qualifications initially, he will be dismissed." Thus it could be argued that Iran's leadership transition plan is more democratic than the soft and hard dictatorships and monarchies of Asia and Europe.

While it may be argued that Iran's cultural uniqueness requires that the state be ruled by a semi-democratic theocracy, there is no such cultural or historical guidance in the case of the Thai Kingdom. The line of separation between church and state is clear in Thailand, and Buddhist teachings do not advocate the application of its doctrines in the Constitution or laws, unlike Sharia law in Islamic republics.

Yet even in European constitutional monarchies, where the lines separating church and state have been less clear throughout history, there are virtually no remaining monarchy ruled states. Where monarchies remain in the world, the semi-authoritarian tendencies are often well-veiled and limited.

In comparison, the Islamic Republic of Iran's mechanisms for checks and balances, including the crucial role of the Assembly of Experts, demonstrates a more highly evolved democracy, even with Islam integral to its rule and operation. Despite drawbacks on human rights and the support of terrorism by state authorities, democratic transitions in Iran since the 1979 revolution until now have been orderly and peaceful.

For as long as Islam remains Iran's state religion, the role of Ayatollahs will always be respected and influential. Can the same be said for Thailand's unelected institutions and personages? Some argue that the much-touted national sense of "Thainess" has been promoted by the state-controlled school system, which inculcates students with a pro-establishment bias. But is Thailand's semi-democratic rule, which is supposedly guided by divinity and arguably managed by nominees, truly cultural or imagined?

That is where the democratic difference between Iran and Thailand lies. The completion of Thailand's long democratic evolution, dating to the end of the absolute monarchy in 1932, is not inevitable without the support of the majority of the electorate. For politically aware competing street protestors in Thailand, and among astute news consumers, the realization of Thailand's democratic deficit is there; for most it remains hidden from view, obfuscated by both state-controlled and private media.

The street protests in Iran have shown that Khamenei's political standing is not unassailable. If he were to abuse his power, including a role in the rigging of election results, the elected Assembly of Experts presumably could exercise its power to remove him. The question for Thailand is whether it has even such minimal democratic checks and balances.

The street protests in Iran have shown that Khamenei's political standing is not unassailable. If he were to abuse his power, including a role in the indirect manipulation of the election outcome, the elected Assembly of Experts has the power to remove him. Perhaps Iran does have its democratically elected checks and balances. The events now transpiring in Iran could in the future have particular relevance in Thailand. The significance in the present time could only be imagined through a painful contrasting exercise by the not so proper, nor superficial, thinking mind. The results of such an exercise is something that Thais must come to grip with, whatever the answer may be.

BTW ... Do you know the asiasentinel site? (IMHO, the site's view is the direct opposite of the Nation's News Sources)

[emancipationthailand]

As a Thai who follow politics for more than 10 years, i'm considered these two countries quite more similar to Thailand, in contrast to Iran .... Nepal and Bhutan

Relevant Articles ...

www(dot)thetravelrag(dot)com(slash)docs(slash)10137(dot)asp

news(dot)yahoo(dot)com(slash)s(slash)ap(slash)20090625(slash)ap_on_re_as/as_nepal_dethroned_king

argh can't post URL T_T

HOLYCOW!! the above articles was almost instancely baned from #1 Web Board for the Thai people ... www(dot)pantip(dot)com

wow, it cannot even be seen. Some scary sh$t

Edited June 26, 2009 by emancipationthailand

[Plus]

the actual results as follows:

Mirhossein Mousavi: 19,075,623

Mehdi Karroubi: 13,387,104

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: 5,698,417

Official results are that Ahmadinejad won by 11 million votes. Just how big a sham of an election it must be if he "actually" lost by 14 million.

Iranian officials say that it's simply impossible to falsify that many votes even if all the complaints are true.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Plus

[Spee]

the actual results as follows:

Mirhossein Mousavi: 19,075,623

Mehdi Karroubi: 13,387,104

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: 5,698,417

Official results are that Ahmadinejad won by 11 million votes. Just how big a sham of an election it must be if he "actually" lost by 14 million.

Iranian officials say that it's simply impossible to falsify that many votes even if all the complaints are true.

It has been widely claimed that the votes were not even counted before victory was claimed. Ahmendinejad was announced as the victor many hours before the polls were even closed.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Spee

[Spee]

So the former Prime Minister during the American hostage crisis is calling for regime overthrow, even if he clearly lost an election.

The first part is true, but the current Ayatollah was the military leader during that period as well.

Mousavi was one of the Hezbollah founders as well and an important figure in the Iran–Contra affair.

I don't think anyone is claiming that Mousavi is a saint. After all, one must have the approval of the Supreme Facist to even run for national office. But when the Ayatollah and his hand-picked President are enforcing an iron-fisted facist theocracy upon the citizenry and demanding another Jewish genocide while claiming the first never happened, .... I mean Jezzus .... how far from rock bottom can a country really get?

Taksin is no saint either. But is Thailand as a whole better off after his administration than before it? Is Thailand better off now than in the days of the Taksin administration? Also, I don't see the Thai leadership demanding the destruction of an entire group of millions of people.

[emancipationthailand]

FACT (for thai-illitirated westerners) ..... Western community had asked the Thai millitary junta to partake/observed the Thailand latest general election (which resulted in much better votes for the Democratic Party but still lose significantly), but the Junta coldly refused. ..... And now the million dollars question ... do you know where did the Thai politicians form the latest government coliation ????????

..... I can't stand the purely naive foreigners here.

Edited June 26, 2009 by emancipationthailand

[Jingthing]

the actual results as follows:

Mirhossein Mousavi: 19,075,623

Mehdi Karroubi: 13,387,104

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: 5,698,417

Official results are that Ahmadinejad won by 11 million votes. Just how big a sham of an election it must be if he "actually" lost by 14 million.

Iranian officials say that it's simply impossible to falsify that many votes even if all the complaints are true.

You clearly have not followed this. They didn't count the votes. It is being seen as a coup by their "supreme leader" and we have not heard the end of this. They went with the BIG LIE rather than the small lie. You actually parroted the lies of their Supreme Leader. Amazing.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Mousavi was one of the Hezbollah founders as well and an important figure in the Iran–Contra affair.

Interesting to see that the green colour of the reform movement did not arouse some suspicions amongst the islamophobes.

Yes, Mousavi has been hurled accidentally into this role. However, there are credible reports that he has changed a lot from his early days and really is a kind of a moderate by Iranian standards. For most of the protesters it is not so much of a cult of personality for Mousavi, but more a movement towards more freedom and also to kick out the embarrassing current leaders. Also, the economy has been very bad there, the leaders aren't even delivering on basic bread and butter issues.

[Plus]

You clearly have not followed this. They didn't count the votes. It is being seen as a coup by their "supreme leader" and we have not heard the end of this. They went with the BIG LIE rather than the small lie. You actually parroted the lies of their Supreme Leader. Amazing.

Ahmadinejad's win was reported all over the world as a fact, as were allegations of electoral fraud.

I'm saying that the size of the win makes it a settled matter, fraud or not.

[Spee]

FACT (for thai-illitirated westerners) ..... Western community had asked the Thai millitary junta to partake/observed the Thailand latest general election (which resulted in much better votes for the Democratic Party but still lose significantly), but the Junta coldly refused. ..... And now the million dollars question ... do you know where did the Thai politicians form the latest government coliation ????????

..... I can't stand the purely naive foreigners here.

This one may be naive about many things in Thai politics, but it seems apparent that the military answers to no one and this will continue to be a political problem area until resolved.

At the same time, one doesn't have to be well-versed in Thai politics to believe that a stable democratic monarchy is key to the future of the country, whether talking about peace among the people, improving the business economy, repairing the tourist industry, etc.