"he Is A Good Boy, He Takes Care Of His Family."

[track61]

This is yet another thread that makes me wonder if i was raised in a vacuum. Somehow I grew up and didn't give all my money to or marry a whore on the 2nd, or any other, date. I paid my taxes, I saved some bucks, I supported my kids thru college even after a divorce and even gave my ex-wife extra help until she remarried. I built my parents a house in the country-side and moved them from the ghetto as soon as I could afford it. I supplemented their income until they died. I still help my own kids when they need it and now that I am married to a Thai I help her family when required. Since I live in the area and share their efforts to earn income I can see what is required but even if I didn't I would not figure it odd to help them if they needed it and I could afford it. I guess it is just how I was raised.

I am dumbfounded by some of the stuff I read here and often wonder just what some of these posters did/do back in their original world. Obviously many didn't learn much and many must have not done much that is very rewarding. Just my opinion but there are some......., never mind.

[coalminer]

My own understanding of the original post was the hypocrisy being shown by some thais, praising their son/daughter for quite rightly in my opinion of helping the parents whilst ignoring the fact that sometimes others within the family could share the load but would rather spend their money on other things and very little or nothing being said about it, of course it could be that the parents wont say anything because they may lose face with the neighbours, the old saying springs to mind, "you can choose your friends but not your family".

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You've hit the mail on the head.

[Dakhar]

Two sons 37, 30 pushing shopping carts and receiving handouts from their "good" mother.

Reading deficiency at work??????????????

"The youngest is 30 years. He works at a supermarket, collecting the pushcarts ..."

"The oldest is 37 years. He works at another supermarket as a SALESMAN ...."

Yep, 'bout sums it up.

Yep, 'bout sums it up.

Reading deficiency ....

TexPat, you should be flogged for that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPIvoLda1Jc

[wackysleet]

At the end of the day this forum at least as I perceive it to be, is a debating forum and as such posters are allowed to voice their opinions based on THEIR experiences of life, usually here in Thailand, the fact that it may differ from other opinions and experiences is what debate is all about, neither view is right or wrong and should be respected as such, what of course can be argued about is when someone quotes facts that are incorrect, so lets show a little more tolerance especially to those whose native tongue is not English.

[Nurse]

Thailand is changing, just like everywhere else.

Problem is, many Farangs cannot change and expect Thailand to be as it was when they used to be happy, so now they are sad and their life is sad.

Sorry things never worked out as you wanted them too, but life is like that, that's why you left your own country in the first place.

You have to accept the changes or move on again like you did before, else you will be spending all day tapping away anti-thai posts on an internet forum, the locals in the village must think you are very odd and you wife must be sad and very bored.

have a nice life in thailand, it's why you came here.

[sbk]

Thailand, more particularly Issaan, is evolving the same way.

If you did not see that, you live with your eyes closed.

Don't try to moralise everybody with your (lack of) knowledge about Thailand and Issaan and quenching every look on the evolution which doesn't fit yours.

At the end of the day this forum at least as I perceive it to be, is a debating forum and as such posters are allowed to voice their opinions based on THEIR experiences of life, usually here in Thailand, the fact that it may differ from other opinions and experiences is what debate is all about, neither view is right or wrong and should be respected as such, what of course can be argued about is when someone quotes facts that are incorrect, so lets show a little more tolerance especially to those whose native tongue is not English.

While I don't disagree with you wackysleet, you have to admit that you aren't necessarily speaking for the OP in this case.

[wackysleet]

While I don't disagree with you wackysleet, you have to admit that you aren't necessarily speaking for the OP in this case.

sbk of course your right, it was never my intention to say or imply that I was, it's just that differing opinions all have a place here, whether they are mine, yours or anyone else as long as the posters comply with the rules, that's all I'm saying and lets have less of the intolerance shown by some. .

[473geo]

I've posted before on this family topic vein.....

If in your own life you have enjoyed the undoubted luxury of family support for almost everything you do.......if you have supported each other through financial hardship and emotional hardship.......if you have appreciated the sacrifices your parents made to clothe you, pay for your education.....the family bond is very strong.....

In Thailand....all over the world......

If you have no experience or understanding of such bonds......you have missed out on one of the most endearing, prolonged, emotionally rewarding experiences in life.........

In my humble family orientated opinion....

This whole "supporting your family" thing is falling apart like a mole hill.

I have seen the village of my family change from a village as you described to what it is now.

Where everey family lived before together with all family members supporting each other, the village evoluted to a village full of "Western style houses" where every family lives on their own.

Lots of elderly people left to their own destiny and send a choeck every now and then.

This whole system of "taking care of the family" is changing at a very fast rate, and if the country don't change the system, more misery will be seen everywhere with the elder people.

My own MIL has supported many children, her's and the children of her daughter's while they were earning money in the big city. Still, now that she is older, the only one who is looking after her and supporting her is my wife.

Family orientated opinion?

Lucky I have a very good pension to look after me ..............

You choose to see from only your own perspective......yes times maybe changing but a strong family unit is still a great advantage.....I have family in many differing locations......we are always free to drop in...stay for a while.....I will always be welcome at the homes of my siblings...and they at mine...always a night out a few beers....conversation....support....discussion.....without antagonism......you know...a family!!!.....no matter where you are, they are with you, part of your life, and you theirs.....an enjoyable part...I cannot see how people cannot appreciate the rewarding nature of this family bond.

By the content of some of the posts here, there are others who do indeed understand......and sadly those that don't... .

[coalminer]

You choose to see from only your own perspective......yes times maybe changing but a strong family unit is still a great advantage.....I have family in many differing locations......we are always free to drop in...stay for a while.....I will always be welcome at the homes of my siblings...and they at mine...always a night out a few beers....conversation....support....discussion.....without antagonism......you know...a family!!!.....no matter where you are, they are with you, part of your life, and you theirs.....an enjoyable part...I cannot see how people cannot appreciate the rewarding nature of this family bond.

By the content of some of the posts here, there are others who do indeed understand......and sadly those that don't... .

I didn't miss anything, but on the other hand you seem to fail to understand what this thread is about.

I understand your viewpoint about having a strong family where everybody can drop in as they wish for a drink.

I also understand the viewpoint of many others about the "old" Thailand where complete farmer families was living together and shared theri wealth and their sorrows and misschiefs.

But, and this has been confirmed by others in this thread, Thailand is changing very fast and Western customs are adapted very fast by the Thai people.

I live here and I can see how more and more young people are leaving their poor farmer family in the village for the quest of fortune in the city.

I witness in my own city many quarrels in Thai families about the need to take care of a bunch of parasites and limiting the money they could spend on more important things.

History repeats itself again.

The very same evolution happened a century ago in my country as well.

Everywhere in Thailand you can see more and more elderly people left to their own destiny and this country does nothing to prevent this.

Like I said, my mother-in-law rised may sons and daughters. Most of them are now living in Bangkok or similar cities making good money. But the only one who is supporting her financial and physical is my wife beause she is married to a fahrang.

[pnustedt]

I live in a rural Thai community where the family support system is, in my opinion, very important.

My wife's mother died a couple of years back. When alive my wife would do anything for her to try to make her life happy, the mother's response was not appreciative and sometimes very critical. When she died my wife was devastated and she still regularly attends her grave. I understand her behaviour as unconditional love - something you rarely see in the west.

We spend much of our resources trying to give her extended family an opportunity to work for a better life (they are poor farmers and mostly younger than us). We feel good being able to do so.

Many of our friends and acquaintances try to help their families and some blankly refuse to, criticising them and avoiding contact. The latter group appear somewhat bigoted and less happy, and consequent strains on their marriages/relationships are also apparent.

[473geo]

I see the point you are making about the migration to the cities, as others have mentioned, and you yourself, this is part of the evolution into western type culture. You know, keep the masses busy and thinking they contribute by working 40 hours a week!!!. Then they prove to theselves it is all worthwhile by going out and buying the latest must have.....

I would also say that everywhere in the world the more 'sucessful' offspring will usually have more input financially supporting parents if necessary.....if not...... they are clearly not a close knit family as some. There will always be some differing shades of availability in families..in my early teens and twenties I lived close and had much input.....never crossed my mind I might be doing more than any other family member....and it proved to be wise, as later my input was a great deal less than others....as I moved around the globe.....but I never ever resented anything I did for my parents!!!

There appear to be two points that you are driving across......on the one hand your wife is supporting her parents, physically and financially.....which you attribute to the fact that she is married to a farang....well... maybe simply because she can and therefore does...they are her parents!! That does not make her anything other than a loyal daughter.....and surely she should be proud she can make the life of your mother in law a little bit more comfortable in her old age.

The second point you are driving is that family members who have migrated object to sharing the burden of supporting their parents on the farm...that they may spend their money on more important things!!!.......now what I ask.... is more important than the parents who brought you into this world, fed clothed and educated you?......naw...... you should not be made to feel like you owe them anything, that is the old way.......go out and buy that more important BMW....and leave the 'parasites' to look after themselves!!!!!.........a sad reflection on a 'developing' society.

Now if you are saying family values are declining......your mother in law would be destitute if not for you and your wife...there is no fall back for the 'parasites' back on the farm......I would suggest that there is, in fact, more chance of a better life for the elderly in the farming village community than on the streets of Bankok!!! There in lies the strength.....not everywhere of course...places differ

Should the government provide for the elderly?........well it would appear that there is a slide towards people working and providing a personal pension for their old age in the west...presumably to ease the burden on governments.......so maybe that is not such a good idea.....especially with the ignorance being shown in the banking world at the moment! Of course the older generation in Thailand do not have the fully paid up membership to pensions.

We agree on many things......my point is that the breakdown of social responsibilities by city dwellers does not mean the family unit is dead. In the countryside community living is alive and well...declining maybe...but certainly not to be derided and riduculed by some arrogant city sh*ts whose only real chance in life may well have come because their parents gave them a better start in life than they were afforded themselves.

Edited June 18, 2009 by 473geo

[Heng]

5th generation *city* family here. Cohesive family unit alive and well.

And for us it's across several countries. If oceans and 20 hour flights doesn't break up the family unit, there's no reason a 5 hour bus ride to Issan should... unless you don't value your family.

[473geo]

5th generation *city* family here. Cohesive family unit alive and well.

And for us it's across several countries. If oceans and 20 hour flights doesn't break up the family unit, there's no reason a 5 hour bus ride to Issan should... unless you don't value your family.

Noted with pleasure Heng.....good to know that not all city folks are as portrayed by the op......as if

[JohnGotti]

The thing I do find funny about these types of threads, which have the general nature of "I wish Isaan people were better with their money and not so easily swayed by their families" which can be translated to "I wish I did not have to support or be pressured to support my wife's family" is that these people overlook the fact that if it were not for the poverty of Isaan, many of the very people in this thread would likely not have an Isaan wife to begin with! And if it were not for the poverty of Thailand, many in this thread could not afford to live here!

[coalminer]

I see the point you are making about the migration to the cities, as others have mentioned, and you yourself, this is part of the evolution into western type culture. You know, keep the masses busy and thinking they contribute by working 40 hours a week!!!. Then they prove to theselves it is all worthwhile by going out and buying the latest must have.....

geocities.com/athens/acropolis/6537

Glad that you can see the 2 sides of this story without the need to defend an opinion which is completely opposite in another thread (like a certain poster in this thread).

There appear to be two points that you are driving across......on the one hand your wife is supporting her parents, physically and financially.....which you attribute to the fact that she is married to a farang

No.

The fahrang thing is the answer my wife gets from almost everyone of her family members when the mother-in-law needs something urgent.

The second point you are driving is that family members who have migrated object to sharing the burden of supporting their parents on the farm...that they may spend their money on more important things!!!.......now what I ask.... is more important than the parents who brought you into this world, fed clothed and educated you?......naw...... you should not be made to feel like you owe them anything, that is the old way.......go out and buy that more important BMW....and leave the 'parasites' to look after themselves!!!!!.........a sad reflection on a 'developing' society.

Indeed a sad reflection on a "developping" country.

But a reflection that is there and clear to see to everybody.

Like another poster in this thread said: "10 years ago I didn't see 1 fat Thai. Nowthere are many."

Now if you are saying family values are declining......your mother in law would be destitute if not for you and your wife...there is no fall back for the 'parasites' back on the farm......I would suggest that there is, in fact, more chance of a better life for the elderly in the farming village community than on the streets of Bankok!!! There in lies the strength.....not everywhere of course...places differ

There are for shure more opportunities for the elderly to be take care off in the farmer village than in the streets of Bangkok.

But my father-in-law, a man which I repected always and had charisma, died of malnutricion in the village while we were abroad and I was lying in the hospital very ill.

My mother-in-law will surely go the same direction if she had not her daughter to rely on.

No way the whisky guzzling son in Bangkok will support her financial or physical.

BTW, when I'm older and can not take care of myself, I gave a shit about a little bit of money donated every once in a while by a family member.

But when that time comes, I will be happy to know that I have a daughter in my country who has build her house with a spare room to take REALLY care of me.

Taking care off doesn't mean sending some peanuts every once in a while.

Should the government provide for the elderly?........well it would appear that there is a slide towards people working and providing a personal pension for their old age in the west...presumably to ease the burden on governments.......so maybe that is not such a good idea.....especially with the ignorance being shown in the banking world at the moment! Of course the older generation in Thailand do not have the fully paid up membership to pensions.

You seem to have a wrong interpretation of providing care for the elderely.

Elderly don't give a shit about a little bit of money dropping in their mailbox every now and then.

What elderly REALLY NEED is someone who helps them in doing the daily things which they cannot do anymore themselves.

This whole thing of "sening money to my parents" is a simple way to avoid responsability.

We agree on many things......my point is that the breakdown of social responsibilities by city dwellers does not mean the family unit is dead. In the countryside community living is alive and well...declining maybe...but certainly not to be derided and riduculed by some arrogant city sh*ts whose only real chance in life may well have come because their parents gave them a better start in life than they were afforded themselves.

Who said one year ago "we need to educate the farmers in Issan (to become citizens like us)" and was (is) supported by 99% of the ThaiVisa members who seemed all to be married with a civilised woman from Bangkok and not "an Issaan hooker" ?

Wait a moment .....

It was something whcih started with "P" and ended with "D" .....

[JohnGotti]

How do you guys know that the people who buy BMWs have starving and uncared for parents?

Edited June 18, 2009 by JohnGotti

[coalminer]

The thing I do find funny about these types of threads, which have the general nature of "I wish Isaan people were better with their money and not so easily swayed by their families" which can be translated to "I wish I did not have to support or be pressured to support my wife's family" is that these people overlook the fact that if it were not for the poverty of Isaan, many of the very people in this thread would likely not have an Isaan wife to begin with! And if it were not for the poverty of Thailand, many in this thread could not afford to live here!

FUNNY that the 2 examples I gave in my OP are about THAIS who cannot afford the lifestyle of living in the city combined with the lifestyle of the village.

But that is something for"people in this thread" without a reading deficiency......

[JohnGotti]

The thing I do find funny about these types of threads, which have the general nature of "I wish Isaan people were better with their money and not so easily swayed by their families" which can be translated to "I wish I did not have to support or be pressured to support my wife's family" is that these people overlook the fact that if it were not for the poverty of Isaan, many of the very people in this thread would likely not have an Isaan wife to begin with! And if it were not for the poverty of Thailand, many in this thread could not afford to live here!

FUNNY that the 2 examples I gave in my OP are about THAIS who cannot afford the lifestyle of living in the city combined with the lifestyle of the village.

But that is something for"people in this thread" without a reading deficiency......

Well, your OP was barely readable to begin with. No offense, though. For all I know, you could have fallen off a horse as a child or something and intellectually speaking, this OP that you wrote could be way over the level that anyone would have ever predicted that you could come up with. So please do excuse me if I misunderstood.

[473geo]

How do you guys know that the people who buy BMWs have starving and uncared for parents?

You lead a sheltered life......you didn't know!!....would you like me to provide statistical evidence.......or perhaps just accept your pendantic input for what it is!!!.... .....inconsequential

[wackysleet]

5th generation *city* family here. Cohesive family unit alive and well.

And for us it's across several countries. If oceans and 20 hour flights doesn't break up the family unit, there's no reason a 5 hour bus ride to Issan should... unless you don't value your family.

name=wackysleet

Heng, in an ideal world this would happen with families especially in countries like Thailand but unfortunately thats not always the case, likewise with people becoming more affluent either by moving to the city and having a good job with a much changed social life than that offered by the village, often tend to forget their filial duties/responsibilities.

My feelings on this subject are that if a member of the family can afford something then they should contribute financially, after all the more money coming into the parents the better their life, unfortunately in my case and I suspect a lot of other cases where a westerner is involved the thai family members tend to renegue thinking the rich westerner has more money, he can afford it, that of course is not always the case, although reading a lot of the posts does give the impression that we are all millionairs.

In my case my MIL wasn't, in my opinion been treated right by the elder two sisters and I put my foot down and told my wife that she must come and live with us she would have her own room with TV and she could basically retire instead of being treated like a skivvy

plus of course she was to be given money for spending on herself, something she had never had before, unfortunately two days before we were due to go and pick her up she was killed by a hit and run driver, one of the saddest days of my life.

People here on tv seem to give the impression that ALL thais are wonderful and fully supportive of the family unit which is not always the case. wackysleet.

[Heng]

How do you guys know that the people who buy BMWs have starving and uncared for parents?

Surely there are some, but for the most part IMO it's wishful thinking. Life is full of different contests and races... and when one "loses," it's easier on the ego to assume that the winner cheated or is really suffering in (imagined) secret.

[PeaceBlondie]

There are dysfunctional families here and back home. My partner's mother is widowed, senile, maybe demented. We - four sisters and my boyfriend - take care of Mama. I know one young man who supports his alcoholic, elderly father. Again, that's family. Almost all Thais I know are hard workers. When it comes to family, they're too forgiving. But that's naam jai, which is better than black-hearted.

[JohnGotti]

How do you guys know that the people who buy BMWs have starving and uncared for parents?

You lead a sheltered life......you didn't know!!....would you like me to provide statistical evidence.......or perhaps just accept your pendantic input for what it is!!!.... .....inconsequential

I don't think you understand the definition of the word "pendantic".

[473geo]

How do you guys know that the people who buy BMWs have starving and uncared for parents?

Surely there are some, but for the most part IMO it's wishful thinking. Life is full of different contests and races... and when one "loses," it's easier on the ego to assume that the winner cheated or is really suffering in (imagined) secret.

Based on the assumption that all wish to enter the race and deem the prize worthy of effort, otherwise known as a hollow victory.

[wackysleet]

How do you guys know that the people who buy BMWs have starving and uncared for parents?

You lead a sheltered life......you didn't know!!....would you like me to provide statistical evidence.......or perhaps just accept your pendantic input for what it is!!!.... .....inconsequential

I don't think you understand the definition of the word "pendantic".

wackysleet

I have a sister in law J/G that also uses the wrong word, usually spelt wrong and frequently used in the wrong context.

[473geo]

How do you guys know that the people who buy BMWs have starving and uncared for parents?

You lead a sheltered life......you didn't know!!....would you like me to provide statistical evidence.......or perhaps just accept your pendantic input for what it is!!!.... .....inconsequential

I don't think you understand the definition of the word "pendantic".

'marked by narrow focus on trivial aspects' - academic

[sbk]

How do you guys know that the people who buy BMWs have starving and uncared for parents?

You lead a sheltered life......you didn't know!!....would you like me to provide statistical evidence.......or perhaps just accept your pendantic input for what it is!!!.... .....inconsequential

I don't think you understand the definition of the word "pendantic".

'marked by narrow focus on trivial aspects' - academic

I hate to be a pedant here, but its pedantic, not pendantic.

[473geo]

I don't think you understand the definition of the word "pendantic".

'marked by narrow focus on trivial aspects' - academic

I hate to be a pedant here, but its pedantic, not pendantic.

Oh yes one extra N........and what are the people called who pick up on such things?

Spelling wrong - meaning and application 100% correct...it would appear... .

Actually if we are being pedantic......is there actually a word Pendantic.....if not.....how can one know the meaning

reason for edit wrote the bloody thing wrong again.....

Edited June 18, 2009 by 473geo

[Heng]

How do you guys know that the people who buy BMWs have starving and uncared for parents?

Surely there are some, but for the most part IMO it's wishful thinking. Life is full of different contests and races... and when one "loses," it's easier on the ego to assume that the winner cheated or is really suffering in (imagined) secret.

Based on the assumption that all wish to enter the race and deem the prize worthy of effort, otherwise known as a hollow victory.

Also a common method of self soothing (not saying that's what you're doing, just in general). Reset or revalue to zero or whatever negligible or sometimes negative value that which one does not have. 'Who would want to be an Olympian anyway? All that back pain to deal with later in life!' 'Beachfront living? For fisherman maybe... who knows when the next tsunami will strike?' 'Having maids and a driver is akin to promoting slavery!' etc. Also seen in those constantly saying how 'bad' life is somewhere that they no longer live.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Heng

[JohnGotti]

no problems geo. i too enjoy vodka with my morning juice.