Battered Tourism Sector Seeks Urgent Government Help

[supergoondu]

The following was published in Singapore Straits Times on 22 June 2009. Thailand may see further drop in their tourist arrival number.

Unfortunately I am not able to provide the link.

Beware of vanishing cabbies and pressure sales tactics in Phuket

I WOULD like to warn Singaporeans of some unsavoury sales tactics I encountered in Phuket during my recent visit with my family in the second week of June.

When we arrived at Phuket airport, one taxi driver approached us. He agreed to drive us to our hotel for an agreed sum. He then asked us to follow him.

We thought he was taking us to his taxi. Instead, he took us to a counter near the exit. A woman tried to sell us a Marriott hotel holiday package, but we said we were not interested. When I returned the brochure to her, she snatched it rudely. And as for the taxi driver, he had disappeared.

We made our way out and were greeted by many taxi drivers. We took one.

About 20 minutes into our journey from the airport to our hotel in Patong Beach, the cabby turned into a carpark outside a tour agency, saying he had to sign something, and jumped out.

We waited for a few minutes. Two women from the tour agency approached us and spoke for more than 15 minutes, asking us to book an island tour. The driver did not come out and we felt stranded and pressured. In the end, we gave in and signed up for the tour at an overpriced rate, as we discovered later.

On the day of our tour, the driver came earlier than the specified time and claimed we did not show up. Fortunately, we had many witnesses who saw us waiting at the hotel lobby and carpark.

We took a cab to the office to claim a refund. The tour agency agreed to 50 per cent refund or another tour for us the next day. However, our trust in the agency was broken and we did not want to continue.

We called the police for assistance, as the situation was becoming aggressive - one of the staff members threatened to pour water over me and my camera because we had taken a photo of the office. With the aid of the police, we managed to get a full refund, minus the 3 per cent charge for using our credit card for payment.

I urge the public to be wary of taxi drivers from Phuket airport.

First, do your homework on taxi fares to your destination. It is better to hire only metered cabs.

Second, as a precaution, tell the taxi driver beforehand you do not want to make any stop on the way to your hotel. I found out it is against a government rule to do so.

Third, the number you can call if you run into trouble in Phuket is 1155 (tourist police). Check out the website at phuketdir.com/pkttouristpolice. Goh Toke Nang (Mdm)

[GungaDin]

Straits Times link

Thank you for that article

[brahmburgers]

As if there weren't enough fault-finding, I want to bellyache about another thing:

Shopping in Thailand. It's often annoying to enter and peruse a Thai shop. With rare exceptions, there's music or TV noise, and it's loud. Sometimes you even get various types of music playing in the same space. Granted, these sorts of things happen in other countries, but Thailand seems to have perfected it to an annoying degree. Of course, they don't consciously know it's annoying, and if you mention it, you'll likely get a shrug or perhaps someone reluctantly turning down the hi fi a half notch.

Just my two satang worth.

[MJP]

Let's face it. It's a sh1thole. Some of us are stuck here for various reasons. Make the best of it, I guess.

But yes, Thailand is unlikely to be the big destination it once was, mainly because people feel the Thai mentality is disingenuous and often quite rude. It's also pricey and folks feel they're being ripped off (often when they're not, it's down to communication and mannerisms).

I like it here mind you. But I live in the sticks with the 2nd class citizens that are Issan farmers.

[henryalleman]

Well, I can only observe that the sort of behavior by the Thai Police (That I have just now witnessed today) is not helping the "battered tourist sector" - - I have just now witnessed some sort of special unit shake down today, Saturday, 20-June-2009, 11:30am, at the Siam BTS interchange station, of all places. They police were stopping every white-faced Falang and demanding to see his or her passport. (Japanese and other "ASEAN" visitors seemed to get a pass, with no problem) If the Falang victim was not carrying a passport, then he or she was apparently permitted to pay a "fine" and then go on their way. This is only my assumption, based on what I observed.

Police were stationed near the turnstile and ticketing area at the first level entrance into the Siam BTS sky train, at the end of the station that is immediately adjacent to Siam Paragon. I stood for approximately 30 minutes just outside the 7-11 kiosk and watched them work. In two cases I saw foreigners, who could not produce their passport, escorted into Paragon with one of the Police. In both cases, the foreigner and the cop walked back out from the building about ten minutes later, and the foreigner went on his way. We need not speculate what transpired during those 10 minutes or how much Thai baht changed hands.

I can only observe, that as the tourist-driven Thai economy spirals down into chaos, the Boys in Brown are scamming tourists even more than before. This sort of behavior used to be limited to street cons run by the Thonglor Police between Asoke and Phrom Phong, now I have just witnessed it up on a BTS platform.

I suppose that at the very least you should carry a photocopy of the photo page of your passport as well as copies of your current entry page and entry card, but you are probably safer if you carry your real original passport with you at all times.

Respectfully submitted,

Judge Dredd

[/size]

I only like to comment that in my home country, every citizen over the age of 12 must always carry his passport or ID card, its the law. If you can't show it, you are taking to the police station also, and get a penalty. I presume you are British who don't have ID cards. reason why there are so many illegal immigrants in your country and fraud of the social security system.

[henryalleman]

No large country (based on population) wants to be too reliant on tourism.

2005 tourism GDP:

Thailand 7.14%

Spain 4.70

Australia 2.81

Sweden 2.39

Italy 2.17

UK 1.79

China 1.42

Germany 1.37

South Korea 1.03

USA 0.99

Russia 0.96

Japan 0.34

Non-citizens should not expect to have the same privileges as a country's own citizens.

Well first of all if you are married to a citizen in the UK you are aloud citizenship.And in Thailand you have to apply for one that costs over 100,000BHT and it is only about a 5% chance you will get it.And you don't get your money back.

Eveybody in the world should be aloud equal right,who want to be a second class citizen or even a third class citizen.

And another thing you can own property in the counties above and land apart from Thailand.

You sound like a *** liberty taker!

You notice i put wrote stars, it must be a bad word.

Correct, in Europe you can even vote for local elections if you stay 5 year in the country. You have the same acces to the health and education system, get the the same discounts on public ttransports. All of this without being a national.

Edited June 22, 2009 by henryalleman

[Absingjul]

Brings back memories...

Thailand Tourism Recovery Ahead Of Schedule

2009-03-13

[sriracha john]

April turmoil deflates volume

Passenger, cargo and aircraft traffic through Thailand's six main airports continued to decline in April as political turmoil heightened by rioting in Bangkok dashed hopes for improvement.

Total passenger throughput in the month contracted 12.1% year-on-year to 4.43 million, cargo shrank 25.9% to 82,727 tonnes and aircraft movements fell 9.9% to 30,433, according to statistics compiled by Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT).

Traditionally, April is one of the peak traffic months as Songkran revellers take holidays, but troubles spurred by pro-Thaksin Shinawatra demonstrators dashed hopes for arresting the traffic free-fall that began last year.

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-23

[henryalleman]

Ah, the "Visa Facts" - - may I add something to that category? Beechguy mentioned 39 nationalities, which includes persons who receive 30 day Visa-on-Arrival (VOA). Please, then, tell me which Thai law allows the Immigration Police to apparently blatantly discriminate in favor of certain "ASEAN" Nationals, who receive 90 day VOA, every trip, unending?

My girlfriend is Japanese, and she travels on a Japanese passport. She has several Japanese and South Korean friends. They all get 90-days VOA, regardless of where or how they enter Thailand, or how many times. They do not have special diplomatic status, nothing like that, nor do they have the APEC Travel card, nor do they have work permits, nor are they engaged in business here, nor do they have non-immigrant B visas, no embassy-issued tourist visas, nothing. They simply show up, as tourists, and they get 90 days every swinging time. Can you explain that one to me?

very simply, its because bilateral agreements between those countries. for example as an Belgian citizen I pay 30 $ US for a Laos visa while an American must pay 35 $US, Chinese pay only 15 $ US and a Thai pay nothing. The same go's for many other countries, every country have different visa rules. for each other country. As an Belgian citizen I don't need a Visa for Switzerland, and also for many other countries I only have to carry my ID card, no passport or Visa needed, you should not be so paranoid.

BTW do you know the Visa rules for Thai citizens going to a Schengen country? Apparently not, otherwise you will not complain about Thai Visa or immigration rules at all.

Edited June 23, 2009 by henryalleman

[henryalleman]

Ok, let's put it this way. I don't recall ever entering(visa exempt or visa on arrival) a foreign country without completing an arrival card of some type, Thailand, just the same. Let me know if you know exceptions.

Yeah, but many countries give you 3 to 6 months for that, visa free! Why not Thailand?

Names please.

[henryalleman]

Countries that are SERIOUS about attacting tourists.

For examples:

Peru (90 days no visa), Mexico (six months, no visa), Argentina (90 days), Ecuador (90 days no visa) ...

Peru; Only for US and EU citizens all others pay 20$ US

Mexico: US citizens free, all others between 17 and 30$US

Argentina, Ecuador the same.

[beechguy]

Countries that are SERIOUS about attacting tourists.

For examples:

Peru (90 days no visa), Mexico (six months, no visa), Argentina (90 days), Ecuador (90 days no visa) ...

Peru; Only for US and EU citizens all others pay 20$ US

Mexico: US citizens free, all others between 17 and 30$US

Argentina, Ecuador the same.

In this region, the only places I know of for some nationalities, are perhaps Malaysia and Singapore. The remaining countries, require a visa for a fee, or have a shorter visa exempt period,(the Philippines, 21 days for some). Some of the places, it may be easier to get an extension if you are already in the country. But, for the average tourist, I don't buy the argument that Thailand is much more restrictive to tourists than it's neighbors.

They also will mention Thailand's requirement for proof of airline tickets, and funds for the traveler to support themselves, etc. But, in their arguments, they won't bother to mention, that other countries also have those requirements. They also won't mention, that it is the airlines that require return tickets, or visas to go to numerous countries, not just Thailand. That is addressed in IATA policies that internatiional carriers operate with. But as I said, some people can't be bothered with the facts.

Edited June 23, 2009 by beechguy

[spidermike007]

Before leaving Thailand, you may want to consider Koh Samui. I have been here 3 1/2 years, and have not had one problem, like the ones you describe. I am sure

there are scams here, and like all places, one has to be careful. But, I and my friends who live here have had little problems. I think Pattaya is a very different

environment. Tourism is down here too, but the place is not getting slammed quite as hard as Pattaya. It is quite peaceful here, and the people are more relaxed

than many other places in Thailand.

[spidermike007]

Very, very good point. If he thinks he is going to be safer in the Phillipines, than in Thailand, he is going to be in for a big surprise. From

what I hear, the local guys there, will kick you ass just for sport. And they are far more talented than most Thais, when it comes to martial

arts, so unless you are a weekend warrior, you have little chance defending yourself. The crime situation there is out of control, unlike

Thailand. I, and so many like me, have had little problems here. When it comes to security, I think Thailand still ranks far ahead of places

like America (my homeland), and many others.

[Mai Krap]

Can the title of the thread be changed to "Battering Tourism In Thailand" as it seems that would be more appropriate.

To the guy having problems with ladyboys at night in Pattaya. Sir you are not very clued up on how things operate with them. If you stop and talk to them that's as much as saying your game for what they have to offer. Its best to just keep walking and not deal with them at all as they are impossible. Meeting some transgender person in business or in a professional environment is one thing, there are some very intelligent and great transgender people in Thailand. That stated, dealing with hookers walking down the street at night anywhere in the world is a dangerous game, adding drugs, alcohol, and misunderstandings just makes the situation more volatile.

As for leaving Thailand for the Philippines, I honestly believe they have better doctors over there but that's where it ends. It is far more violent in a very bad way for long term tourist. Just wait till you go to the bank and there are two or three guys swinging machine guns around behind locked doors, its very uncomfortable. Around Christmas time the killing for Christmas presents begins, its a annual ritual, just ask anyone that's ever been there in that period.

Certainly it can be bad here in Thailand but one can get past the negativity if they figure out how to live here. My life changed dramatically when I stopped going out at night hanging out with losers, that goes for Expats and Thai.

[lounger]

'They charged that although the government had announced tourism as a national priority, to date no concrete measures have been implemented by concerned-agencies to boost the country's tourism industry.'

Yes,there have been plenty-concrete NEGATIVE measures enacted.

National priority,my ***.

Mandatory visas,no visa runs,rules,new rules,what are the rules?????-skip,hop,jump.

The average guy that wants to find a low cost living somewhere just got fed up and left.

Hello???????

Cambodia and Indo-can buy long term visas.

Malaysia-three months upon arrival.

Thailand-nobody can even figure it out except you get the overall feeling 'nobody wants you'.

Lost the plot,folks.

Thailand,great people,great country.

Utter silly nonesense when it comes to implementing conditions to allow foreigners to boost your economic stature.

Get it together Thailand and protect tourists.

Start with ATM fees and close with implementing the old visa rules and plenty of tourists-short and long term-will come back.

I sympathise with the less educated Thai. Twice a day he/she has to observe the national call to keep Thailand free for the Thais and be bold in repelling the outsider.

When these people storm airports they are sticking together doing what they are brainwashed into thinking is good. Also you can understand that they are trained to be insular and therefore suspicious of the foreigner raising their hopes, by offering jobs and money or making something they dont want or understand, only to have them dashed again by the removal of the source of the money. When their jobs vanish they blame the foriegner for removing the business.

I am often told that village life is changing. Why is this? If the farange business man/ tourist goes home will the good old days come back. Of course it wont. But too many people want being not so clever think they will.

So I sympathise with the local less educated Thais...... but what I dont understand is how they come to be running the country?

[JR Texas]

Very, very good point. If he thinks he is going to be safer in the Phillipines, than in Thailand, he is going to be in for a big surprise. From

what I hear, the local guys there, will kick you ass just for sport. And they are far more talented than most Thais, when it comes to martial

arts, so unless you are a weekend warrior, you have little chance defending yourself. The crime situation there is out of control, unlike

Thailand. I, and so many like me, have had little problems here. When it comes to security, I think Thailand still ranks far ahead of places

like America (my homeland), and many others.

There are safe and unsafe places in both counties.........you just have to know where to go. There are loads of expats in the Philippines..........they would not all be there is they felt unsafe.

[grandpops]

April turmoil deflates volume

Passenger, cargo and aircraft traffic through Thailand's six main airports continued to decline in April as political turmoil heightened by rioting in Bangkok dashed hopes for improvement.

Total passenger throughput in the month contracted 12.1% year-on-year to 4.43 million, cargo shrank 25.9% to 82,727 tonnes and aircraft movements fell 9.9% to 30,433, according to statistics compiled by Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT).

Traditionally, April is one of the peak traffic months as Songkran revellers take holidays, but troubles spurred by pro-Thaksin Shinawatra demonstrators dashed hopes for arresting the traffic free-fall that began last year.

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-23

Nice balanced report this.

John, are you saying that the trouble in April caused less disruption at the airports than when the PAD actually closed them? All that rotting food in the cargo bays, all those tourists stranded inside and out, all the business meetings that didn't happen, all the events cancelled/curtailed etc.

April, if you don't know, is at the END of the high season and therefore, could not possibly have been a part of the cause for the tourist numbers collapsing in December, January and february.

Or, are you saying that the the red shirts caused this as all our incoming tourists had ESP and saw it coming?

This Government with it's hi-so backers has brought the country to it's knees even quicker than I thought they could do. It's their only success to date and for their apologists to miss-represent facts as such has last, desparate ya boo sucks ring to it.

[animatic]

April turmoil deflates volume

Passenger, cargo and aircraft traffic through Thailand's six main airports continued to decline in April as political turmoil heightened by rioting in Bangkok dashed hopes for improvement.

Total passenger throughput in the month contracted 12.1% year-on-year to 4.43 million, cargo shrank 25.9% to 82,727 tonnes and aircraft movements fell 9.9% to 30,433, according to statistics compiled by Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT).

Traditionally, April is one of the peak traffic months as Songkran revellers take holidays, but troubles spurred by pro-Thaksin Shinawatra demonstrators dashed hopes for arresting the traffic free-fall that began last year.

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-23

Nice balanced report this.

John, are you saying that the trouble in April caused less disruption at the airports than when the PAD actually closed them? All that rotting food in the cargo bays, all those tourists stranded inside and out, all the business meetings that didn't happen, all the events cancelled/curtailed etc.

April, if you don't know, is at the END of the high season and therefore, could not possibly have been a part of the cause for the tourist numbers collapsing in December, January and february.

Or, are you saying that the the red shirts caused this as all our incoming tourists had ESP and saw it coming?

This Government with it's hi-so backers has brought the country to it's knees even quicker than I thought they could do. It's their only success to date and for their apologists to miss-represent facts as such has last, desparate ya boo sucks ring to it.

Three points

1 ) you are not reading this clearly. I know not why.

2 ) SJ didn't write this so he is not saying anything. This is the Bangkok Post.

3 ) this says nothing about the Airport closure,

but only about the cumulative effects of the WHOLE PREVIOUS year

April last compared to this April,

causing a Passenger drop 12.1% year-on-year.

Cargo shrank 25.9% COMPARING APRILS....

And that any hopefulness that there WOULD be returns to normalcy

since December were probably nullified by Songkran riots.

Whether these figures are just government BS, or reflect actual data we know not.

What it does says, is that the recent rioting didn't help,

and the cumulative effect of Thailand's ongoing brinksmanship with the dark side

has caused a drop of 12.1% of passengers.

Actually less than I would have expected in a Month of Year to Month of Year Comparison.

But you read it as a personal opinion against your pet peaves.

It was not,

and is not saying what you think it says,

and was not written by who your think it was.

Edited June 23, 2009 by animatic

[sriracha john]

April turmoil deflates volume

Passenger, cargo and aircraft traffic through Thailand's six main airports continued to decline in April as political turmoil heightened by rioting in Bangkok dashed hopes for improvement.

Total passenger throughput in the month contracted 12.1% year-on-year to 4.43 million, cargo shrank 25.9% to 82,727 tonnes and aircraft movements fell 9.9% to 30,433, according to statistics compiled by Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT).

Traditionally, April is one of the peak traffic months as Songkran revellers take holidays, but troubles spurred by pro-Thaksin Shinawatra demonstrators dashed hopes for arresting the traffic free-fall that began last year.

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-06-23

Nice balanced report this.

John, are you saying that the trouble in April caused less disruption at the airports than when the PAD actually closed them? All that rotting food in the cargo bays, all those tourists stranded inside and out, all the business meetings that didn't happen, all the events cancelled/curtailed etc.

April, if you don't know, is at the END of the high season and therefore, could not possibly have been a part of the cause for the tourist numbers collapsing in December, January and february.

Or, are you saying that the the red shirts caused this as all our incoming tourists had ESP and saw it coming?

This Government with it's hi-so backers has brought the country to it's knees even quicker than I thought they could do. It's their only success to date and for their apologists to miss-represent facts as such has last, desparate ya boo sucks ring to it.

You sure do read a lot more into a news clipping then what is presented.

The article is about April's numbers and what caused them to be low.

[brownlegs]

There has been a lot of talk about the people who were trapped in the Airport by The viscious Yellow Shirts but little has been mentioned of the plight of the people who got stuck in various countries around the world and lost not just their holiday but in my case over a thousand pounds. The Thai government who benifitted from my misery should offer compensation to me and the other thousands of people who sufferde like me.

The folly of the airport occupation was that it made Thai politics international and made Thai business our business. We now have the right to comment on the mess there as were touched by it.

And don't get me started on ATM charges..or the exchange rate...or the thugish Songkran festival....

My next holiday next year is on April 15th 2010. Guess which country I will not be going to?

[retdson]

The view of the ex-pats isn't necessarily irrelevent to the 3 week tourist industry. Most ex-pats started as tourists and liked it so much that they stayed. Here's my take on why the tourist industry has fallen off more than other similar destinations.

1) A total lack of planning and fore-thought.

The last government wanted the 'quality' tourists, but failed dismally when it came to setting up any kind of support infrastructure that provides the level of efficiency and comfort that 'quality' tourists expect. A lot of the accomodation and services in Thailand are ad-hoc here today /gone tomorrow type operations that work passably well for the 'adventure' backpacker to whom a degree of discomfort and hassle are considered part of the travel 'experience', but are considered downright shoddy by the high-end traveller. Even if someone stays a high class hotel, they'll soon discover that any tour/activity has been sub-contracted out to some underfunded and badly run outfit, whose only concession to the 'quality' tourist is to charge them 8 times the price they were previously charging the backpackers for the same service.

2) Mindless prejudice.

By making things harder for the backpacker/border runner, all they've done is stop people using Thailand as a base. When I first spent significant time in Thailand in the late 90's, people would use Thailand as a home base to go and visit Lao, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia. You could go out, spend 3 weeks in Lao and come back in again, huker down for a month, then maybe take a trip down to Malaysia. It's impossible to do that anymore - not unless you want to fill your passport with pointless 3 month visa stamps that you're not going to get the benefit of.

3) Unregulated development.

Look at any attraction which brought someone here 20, or even 10 years ago, and it's almost certainly been ruined. Who would go to Kho Phi Phi now? It's a shi*-hole. Kho Lanta? I stopped going there 5 years ago and I won't go back again. It breaks my heart to see how it's been trashed. What hope for long term tourism if people who know and love a place can't stand to see it anymore?

4) Cost

I can get a hotel room in Dubai for not much more than I will pay for a 'tourist' hotel in a provincial town in Thailand. It's not cost, it's greed, because in the same town, I can get the same quality room (or better) and pay less than a third of the 'tourist' hotel if I move a 1/4 mile and book into a Thai commerical hotel. Of course I'll need to be able to speak basic Thai to do it, but that's beside the point.

The list could go on, but to me these are the main reasons. In all, what they amount to is that the tourist industry here has almost wilfully sabotaged repeat business. If you're friends won't visit you - why should anyone else?

[harleyclarkey]

Well, I can only observe that the sort of behavior by the Thai Police (That I have just now witnessed today) is not helping the "battered tourist sector" - - I have just now witnessed some sort of special unit shake down today, Saturday, 20-June-2009, 11:30am, at the Siam BTS interchange station, of all places. They police were stopping every white-faced Falang and demanding to see his or her passport. (Japanese and other "ASEAN" visitors seemed to get a pass, with no problem) If the Falang victim was not carrying a passport, then he or she was apparently permitted to pay a "fine" and then go on their way. This is only my assumption, based on what I observed.

Police were stationed near the turnstile and ticketing area at the first level entrance into the Siam BTS sky train, at the end of the station that is immediately adjacent to Siam Paragon. I stood for approximately 30 minutes just outside the 7-11 kiosk and watched them work. In two cases I saw foreigners, who could not produce their passport, escorted into Paragon with one of the Police. In both cases, the foreigner and the cop walked back out from the building about ten minutes later, and the foreigner went on his way. We need not speculate what transpired during those 10 minutes or how much Thai baht changed hands.

I can only observe, that as the tourist-driven Thai economy spirals down into chaos, the Boys in Brown are scamming tourists even more than before. This sort of behavior used to be limited to street cons run by the Thonglor Police between Asoke and Phrom Phong, now I have just witnessed it up on a BTS platform.

I suppose that at the very least you should carry a photocopy of the photo page of your passport as well as copies of your current entry page and entry card, but you are probably safer if you carry your real original passport with you at all times.

Respectfully submitted,

Judge Dredd

[/size]

I only like to comment that in my home country, every citizen over the age of 12 must always carry his passport or ID card, its the law. If you can't show it, you are taking to the police station also, and get a penalty. I presume you are British who don't have ID cards. reason why there are so many illegal immigrants in your country and fraud of the social security system.

I think the point is that the search was racist based.

Also the point of police corruption/bribery. Of course there was money paid over.

[mommysboy]

Can the title of the thread be changed to "Battering Tourism In Thailand" as it seems that would be more appropriate.

To the guy having problems with ladyboys at night in Pattaya. Sir you are not very clued up on how things operate with them. If you stop and talk to them that's as much as saying your game for what they have to offer. Its best to just keep walking and not deal with them at all as they are impossible. Meeting some transgender person in business or in a professional environment is one thing, there are some very intelligent and great transgender people in Thailand. That stated, dealing with hookers walking down the street at night anywhere in the world is a dangerous game, adding drugs, alcohol, and misunderstandings just makes the situation more volatile.

As for leaving Thailand for the Philippines, I honestly believe they have better doctors over there but that's where it ends. It is far more violent in a very bad way for long term tourist. Just wait till you go to the bank and there are two or three guys swinging machine guns around behind locked doors, its very uncomfortable. Around Christmas time the killing for Christmas presents begins, its a annual ritual, just ask anyone that's ever been there in that period.

Certainly it can be bad here in Thailand but one can get past the negativity if they figure out how to live here. My life changed dramatically when I stopped going out at night hanging out with losers, that goes for Expats and Thai.

Sometimes life is tough, and people deal out rough justice.

Comparing one bad country with another does not excuse the least bad.

[pepi2005]

By making things harder for the backpacker/border runner, all they've done is stop people using Thailand as a base. When I first spent significant time in Thailand in the late 90's, people would use Thailand as a home base to go and visit Lao, Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia. You could go out, spend 3 weeks in Lao and come back in again, huker down for a month, then maybe take a trip down to Malaysia. It's impossible to do that anymore - not unless you want to fill your passport with pointless 3 month visa stamps that you're not going to get the benefit of.

I think that's a very good point.

After all the fuss about turning Thailand into a "hub" for diz and dat during the last years,

it has definitely stopped being the hub it had already been: the tourism hub of the region.

It has achieved that simply by introducing all these very restrictive and complicated visa regulations that made websites like this one so necessary.

Nowadays, Singapore and Malaysia are the major hubs for all the activities that flush money into their countries -

not only because of AirAsia, but especially because they are much more welcoming in general to tourists and foreign investment.

But I dont' blame the Thais for that - most of them are wired to grasp for the "big cash" here and now,

while completely missing that due to this behavior and attitude and the actions they come with it,

they are losing their best fans and most loyal customers, and destroying what they already have and would just need to keep spinning. And they don't only do that with tourism, but also with their natural resources and in many more areas as many of us will sadly know.

[Ulysses G.]

[it has achieved that simply by introducing all these very restrictive and complicated visa regulations that made websites like this one so necessary.

Nowadays, Singapore and Malaysia are the major hubs for all the activities that flush money into their countries -

Thailand has had these types of visa restrictions for decades and it used to be much more difficult to get long term visas than it is now.

Go try to stay in Malaysia or Singapore long term without any red tape. They are worse in many ways. Do you people just imagine things the way that you want them to be.

[bkk_mike]

I think the last drunk Sexpat in Pattaya has a better understanding about Tourism than any of their specialists.

Ban dual pricing

copy the visa regulations from any other country

make a unit of Farang police who hunts scammer

I think the planning could be done in not more than 2 days.

To fix the worst problems would need not more than 2 month.

again, all of these things are specific to people who live here. they are not the things which are putting off the farang who want a fortnight on the beach.

They're maybe not something that puts off someone on their first trip.

But they will put people off coming back, and it's the sort of thing that causes bad word of mouth. I agree with him completely. These three things, by themselves, would do wonders to improve the experience of tourists, AND those living here.

Dual pricing - Even if you accept the crap "justification" about foreigners earning more (I don't see Thais arriving in Mercs paying more than those arriving in pickups), there are places where the child price for foreigners is higher than the adult price for Thais - so now foreign children make more money than Thai adults? (It's also a good way of turning off families wanting to come - knowing that not only they will get ripped off, but that the kids will get ripped off also).

We all know it's a ripoff. We all tell people about it being a ripoff, and there are places we don't go to because the feeling of being ripped off just poisons the whole trip there.

Visa regulations - don't get me started. - I'm married to a Thai, yet I get a longer entry on arrival in Hong Kong, Japan, US without a visa than I get WITH a visa for Thailand.

Scams - we've all heard about the diamond scams, and tuk-tuks that take you around all sorts of shops to buy stuff rather than where you want to go. But we live here, so we're actually unaffected by most scams. It is predominantly going to affect tourists. But it would be so easy to simply have some farang undercover police, or even luk kreungs if they have decent language skills (scammers tend to have good English, so would usually realise a luk kreung isn't a real foreigner despite what they look like).

I really have no idea why they don't do this. My Dad on a holiday here said someone told him the Grand Palace was closed (when we all know it wasn't), but he knew, from me, to ignore any comment like that. Why do they allow it to happen? (Is it corruption, or merely not realising that every tourist scammed turns into 10 or 20 potential tourists that are warned off coming here).

rant over.

[JR Texas]

[it has achieved that simply by introducing all these very restrictive and complicated visa regulations that made websites like this one so necessary.

Nowadays, Singapore and Malaysia are the major hubs for all the activities that flush money into their countries -

Thailand has had these types of visa restrictions for decades and it used to be much more difficult to get long term visas than it is now.

Go try to stay in Malaysia or Singapore long term without any red tape. They are worse in many ways. Do you people just imagine things the way that you want them to be.

Wrong........it was so easy that nobody even thought about the issue.........how far back are you going? 80s and 90s were easy, easy, easy.............

[Ulysses G.]

In Chiang Mai we were constantly doing visa runs to Malaysia and almost no one had a year visa. We were all constantly worried that Thailand would throw us all out and they had crackdowns every few years in which people would be forced to return to their "home" country.

Iti much better NOW!

[JR Texas]

In Chiang Mai we were constantly doing visa runs to Malaysia and almost no one had a year visa. We were all constantly worried that Thailand would throw us all out and they had crackdowns every few years in which people would be forced to return to their "home" country.

Iti much better NOW!

When? I was in CM and Pattaya between 1986-2006.......then moved to the countryside.

I never had a visa problem. I don't remember my friends having any trouble with visas. All that changed around 2001.

Prior to 2001, it was easy to do as many runs to the border you wanted to do (so no need for a visa). 30 days each time.......travel there on big, ac bus, police owned the buses, all easy.......

There were scores of companies that arranged for resident expats to get visas of various types.

Many went to Malaysia, down to Kota Baru on two day trips. Most people came back with double visas, good for 60 days plus the extra days extensions.....only did it twice per year.

The retirement visa could be obtained (think with 500K in the bank) and the extension for marriage (200K)...no serious problems that I can recall.

All of the prices were about half what they are today.

Back then people did not worry about visas. They were not counting the number of visas in their passports.....they were not classified in negative terms as border runners or perpetual tourists....it was a different time....easy or at least easier and certainly less stressful.

Maybe things were different in CM......maybe you could not just go to Myanmar/Burma and had to go all the way to Malaysia....that would be a bit of a challenge.