Snap Hydroponics

[joblo]

According to the following document from Philippine Council for Agriculture this simple system from Taiwan Ag website about a Philippines government initiatve works well the production figures are given too, for a small installation. Please let me know if any one has tried this system and how well it works without a greenhouse here in LOS.

Philippines Ag website

I'm sure the URL will pass the forum rules but if the mods remove it them them just google:

"SNAP Philippine Council for Agriculture" (Don't flame me, google is now a common verb - no capitalisation required.)

Thanx

JB

[rice555]

Hello joblo, it's a poor mans bubbler system, "no bubbles", also like some raft system where the top piece that holds the cups, floats on the nutes, they do recommend you stir the nutes a few times a day to put air in the nutes.

It will work, but bubbles are MUCH better.

rice555

[joblo]

Thanx 555, I will add an aquarium pump. Do you think that will help?

The problem here is the number of power outs that we have now with all the lightening storms. They range from 20 mins to half a day some times.

[rice555]

Hello joblo, if your doing a small system(10-40lt, I really think that a small air pump, even if you just run it for a few hours a day would be better. If you got the space/time/money, try one with and one without pump.

When you get you pump, pick up an extra airstone, my friend does get some clogging in his system.(9 5gal buckets) The Jun Power Head HX-1500(300L/H) pump has a tube venture to put air into the stream coming out of the pump, they are under Bt.225, and also would work. I got mine at JJ's, but most fish stores sale them or other brands, I've got about downtown Korat.

rice555

[jaideeguy]

Also will suggest getting an extra diapharam or 2.....I've gone thru many with the 6 or 7 brands of pumps I've bought over the years.

[joblo]

Thanx for the replies guys, I will get the pump & diaphragms then.

JB

Edited June 21, 2009 by joblo

[bobby57]

According to the following document from Philippine Council for Agriculture this simple system from Taiwan Ag website about a Philippines government initiatve works well the production figures are given too, for a small installation. Please let me know if any one has tried this system and how well it works without a greenhouse here in LOS.

Finally something upon which I can comment with a modicum of confidence! Though I hasten to add that I am far from the expert which Rice is.

I am familiar with the Philippino site and have it downloaded though have yet to plough through the figures; I shall do when I have my own to compare with theirs. A far better source is the Institute of Simplified Hydroponics at www.carbon.org who provide a course on DVDs for agricultural inepts such as myself.

I have been experimenting with various plants over the past year. I include a picture of 4 six meter beds filled with Water Convolvus which grows great with no air pumps and even when I’m too lazy to stick my hand in the waterWith other crops I have had far less success. Chinese celery was a total disaster! Everything died very quickly, irrespective of where it was placed. Could be the chemicals (A & B from Bangsai Aggro); or the temperature / direct sunlight; or lack of bubbles. Chinese Kale fared slightly better – surviving somewhat in the shade.

I have been in contact with Wesco who have been extreamly helpful and I am to meet them in Bangkok next week with a view to solving some of the problems.

If you are anywhere near Konk Kaen feel free to drop in and take a look at my efforts. We even have a spare bedroom! We are 10 kms outside a town called Ban Pai towards Borabu. Phone: 0860927817.

[Bpraim1]

You can use hydrogen peroxide in along with a bubbler, will get you through the power outages. I have had power go out for 10hrs with no problems in my bubblers.

[Bpraim1]

In the picture of thier snap hydro, you can see they have left an area of air between the cup and water level. without this the plant will drowned.

[rice555]

Hello bobby57, nice looking setup, more pictures please!

I was talking to joeycano last night about his project and the results he was having and changes he wants to make. He's mailing back to me the 3DVD's that are covered here: http://www.carbon.org/catalog/pub/startdvd2.htm

Which show hydro using worm castings, great for alternative farming if you want to go that route.

I'm no hydro expert, still going through the early learning process.

Were you able to get your covering local? I have a store that I was able to get black 8-12ft wide, clear 12ft and UV-clear 10ft by the meter or roll.

rice555

[rice555]

Hello bobby57, nice looking setup, more pictures please!

I was talking to joeycano last night about his project and the results he was having and changes he wants to make. He's mailing back to me the 3DVD's that are covered here: http://www.carbon.org/catalog/pub/startdvd2.htm

Which show hydro using worm castings, great for alternative farming if you want to go that route.

I'm no hydro expert, still going through the early learning process.

Were you able to get your covering local? I have a store that I was able to get black 8-12ft wide, clear 12ft and UV-clear 10ft by the meter or roll.

rice555

[rice555]

Hello bobby57, after a brief phone conversation with jaideeguy, what are you using for the float? Is it the foam you see every where's, from signs to clogged clongs?

I've not seen sheets of the good stuff except the top boards at Bangsai

rice555

[irrigator]

According to the following document from Philippine Council for Agriculture this simple system from Taiwan Ag website about a Philippines government initiatve works well the production figures are given too, for a small installation. Please let me know if any one has tried this system and how well it works without a greenhouse here in LOS.

Finally something upon which I can comment with a modicum of confidence! Though I hasten to add that I am far from the expert which Rice is.

I am familiar with the Philippino site and have it downloaded though have yet to plough through the figures; I shall do when I have my own to compare with theirs. A far better source is the Institute of Simplified Hydroponics at www.carbon.org who provide a course on DVDs for agricultural inepts such as myself.

I have been experimenting with various plants over the past year. I include a picture of 4 six meter beds filled with Water Convolvus which grows great with no air pumps and even when I'm too lazy to stick my hand in the waterWith other crops I have had far less success. Chinese celery was a total disaster! Everything died very quickly, irrespective of where it was placed. Could be the chemicals (A & B from Bangsai Aggro); or the temperature / direct sunlight; or lack of bubbles. Chinese Kale fared slightly better – surviving somewhat in the shade.

I have been in contact with Wesco who have been extreamly helpful and I am to meet them in Bangkok next week with a view to solving some of the problems.

If you are anywhere near Konk Kaen feel free to drop in and take a look at my efforts. We even have a spare bedroom! We are 10 kms outside a town called Ban Pai towards Borabu. Phone: 0860927817.

Bobby,

As you are finding out, hydroponics is a fickle business......The problems are, in my opinion, similar to those faced by the guys who put a man on the moon, only they succeeded......

Every type of system is different and you have to figure out what works given your crop type, your weather, your water, your system etc..etc...

No matter what you read the best you can hope for is that you are pointed in the right direction, after that you are on your own due to your own very unique set of parameters and this is when the "fun" starts......It takes time although there are those that will get there quicker than others if they have some experience of growing under differing conditions (I am not part of that group).

I have been screwing around up here in Mahasarakam with tomatoes since Adam was a lad (actually off and on for about 5 years) and although I believe I am finally pretty close to cracking it, until I have grown them through all our seasons I will not consider I have reached my goal.

In short, stick with it as it will finally be very rewarding to see your produce (especially whan all around you are telling you that it is impossible to do what you are doing in Issarn). At which point you can deftly produce the finger.....

Attached is a picture of my US tomato plants taken earlier this year and it is this that keeps you going and your sanity intact.

Regards

Irrigator

tom_3_04_01_09.pdf

[rice555]

Hello irrigator, you've been hiding in the bushes while we've been floundering trying to make things grow.

Very impressive $ystem, would be nice to hear more about it. Det's?

rice555

[bobby57]

Bobby,

As you are finding out, hydroponics is a fickle business......The problems are, in my opinion, similar to those faced by the guys who put a man on the moon, only they succeeded......

Every type of system is different and you have to figure out what works given your crop type, your weather, your water, your system etc..etc...

No matter what you read the best you can hope for is that you are pointed in the right direction, after that you are on your own due to your own very unique set of parameters and this is when the "fun" starts......It takes time although there are those that will get there quicker than others if they have some experience of growing under differing conditions (I am not part of that group).

I have been screwing around up here in Mahasarakam with tomatoes since Adam was a lad (actually off and on for about 5 years) and although I believe I am finally pretty close to cracking it, until I have grown them through all our seasons I will not consider I have reached my goal.

In short, stick with it as it will finally be very rewarding to see your produce (especially whan all around you are telling you that it is impossible to do what you are doing in Issarn). At which point you can deftly produce the finger.....

Attached is a picture of my US tomato plants taken earlier this year and it is this that keeps you going and your sanity intact.

Regards

Irrigator

Very impressive tomatoe set-up - looks likethe liquids are being pumpted through whereas mine are either floating or in sand/rice hull mix. Mine look very unhappy! have tried alternating the feed for the mix ones but they're still not happy. Am getting some fruit though. most of the tomatoe plants are local small things - 30 baht for a tin of seed - but a few are nice ones! Similar problems with both. Shall be seeing Wesco on Thursday so am hoping for a final solution! The water convolvus stuff is doing great in most beds - still some problems to sort - so locals are now having to accept that the farrange is not a total idiot! Just jai rhon mac mac!!

[bobby57]

Hello bobby57, after a brief phone conversation with jaideeguy, what are you using for the float? Is it the foam you see every where's, from signs to clogged clongs?

I've not seen sheets of the good stuff except the top boards at Bangsai

rice555

Just sheets of polystyrene from the local bookstore! 1inch thick by 4 feet. Burning the holes with a hot piece of pipe. They're a little fragile so need a tender touch. Would rather and extra half inch of thickness but haven't been successful finding it yet.

A few more phots as requested from various places around the two farms.

[bobby57]

Hello bobby57, nice looking setup, more pictures please!

I was talking to joeycano last night about his project and the results he was having and changes he wants to make. He's mailing back to me the 3DVD's that are covered here: http://www.carbon.org/catalog/pub/startdvd2.htm

Which show hydro using worm castings, great for alternative farming if you want to go that route.

I'm no hydro expert, still going through the early learning process.

Were you able to get your covering local? I have a store that I was able to get black 8-12ft wide, clear 12ft and UV-clear 10ft by the meter or roll.

rice555

When I got mu first lot of chemicals from bangsai I also bought 3 rolls of UV clear plastic for the roofing - 2 used so far! The black lining I've been buying locally but lots of leak problems. have now started plastering the beds with waterproofed cement - the first fill has generally then had chemical problems so shall try washing them down before filling properly with the next batch of four that I'm currently building.

[irrigator]

Hello irrigator, you've been hiding in the bushes while we've been floundering trying to make things grow.

Very impressive $ystem, would be nice to hear more about it. Det's?

rice555

Rice,

High praise indeed from one who appears to be so revered on this forum.....Thankyou.

What details do you want ?? I am prepared to share some of my experiences with hydroponics in Thailand but, if you will excuse the pun, I don't want to give the farm away.......

Let me know.

Regards

Irrigator

[rice555]

Hello irrigator, not the whole farm, just some basic insight. It looked like you had staggered plantings, what time frame do you work with? Growing media, if any? I take it you mix your own feeding formula? 5-7oz or 8oz-up fruit size? Is your irrigation on a timer, bulk tank or injectors?

A friend of mine got me into hydro in LOS back in 2001, he's down in Phechaburi growing, he's, "the expert".

Except for some 'for home' tomatoes, we both are gearing up for peppers,(same kind) but different outlets.

Any info/pictures are always good to see.

Thanks rice555

[irrigator]

Hello irrigator, not the whole farm, just some basic insight. It looked like you had staggered plantings, what time frame do you work with? Growing media, if any? I take it you mix your own feeding formula? 5-7oz or 8oz-up fruit size? Is your irrigation on a timer, bulk tank or injectors?

A friend of mine got me into hydro in LOS back in 2001, he's down in Phechaburi growing, he's, "the expert".

Except for some 'for home' tomatoes, we both are gearing up for peppers,(same kind) but different outlets.

Any info/pictures are always good to see.

Thanks rice555

Rice,

We work on between 12-14 weeks from transplant (into the final growing bed) to when we pull them out. They are staggered so that we will always have tomatoes. It's a question of how many beds you have divided by 12-14 to figure out how many you are going to plant each week.

The plants you saw in the photo were grown purely in gravel using the ebb an flow method. I have now moved away from this as any disease you get in the solution is passed on to all plants. You should have seen the next crop.........I now use drip without recirculating. The mixture is now sand and gravel. Enough sand to retain solution for a while and yet be porous enough to flush the system with clean water from time to time.

We mix all our own nutrient solutions fromm the basic chemicals (CaNo3, MgSo4 etc.etc..), including the micro nutrients (CuCl2, ZnSo4 etc.etc...). NPK derivatives are not an option......

Fruit size is in the 8-10oz bracket.

Everything is controlled by irrigation industry clocks. That is to say, we can write multiple programs depending on what we want the system to do and when we want it to do it.

I think that answers your questions but let me add a couple of other things.....PH......is critical. Not a lot of people understand that that a PH of 6 is ten times more acidic than PH 7 and PH 5 is 100 times more acidic. Get it right !!!

Also oxygen.....roots need it and in temperatures above 25 deg C it becomes very difficult to aerate the solution. At 30 deg it is nigh on impossible (and those are the sorts of temps we have to work with even though I have buried underground tanks) so you have to find other ways to encourage the oxygen to get to the roots.........

Later........

[rice555]

Hello irrigator, thanks for the info/reply. Have you ever read the old Trickle Cal Ag newsletter(not in print anymore??), but they did some tests south of Fresno using(soil) SDI in sweet peppers and pumped air into the tape and had a higher yield over without. I think Mozelli<sp> injectors had a link to the article at one time.

Please keep us updated.

rice555

[Harcourt]

Just a tidbit of info.... I was watching a documentary recently on hydroponics. Apparently the latest innovation is aeroponics. Basically the nutrients are held in the water as per normal, but the water does not flow over the roots, instead a very fine mist is sprayed onto the roots with a timer, and the drips collected for recycling. It's sort of like the misters at the grocery produce section, but sprayed up and under the plants.

[rice555]

Hello Harcort, aeroponics in one form or another have been around for over 20 years. On the other hydro thread, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Cost-low-Tec...ct-t273254.html

has some info and a picture of a small setup that thescot is doing, bottom L/H corner.

Some small systems use the A-frame setup, large systems use the tank, maybe jaideeguy can post the picture of Aero Green in SQ, a friend sent me some pictures of his tour. I used up my picture quota on TV and can't post any more pixs, other wise I would.

rice555

[Harcourt]

Thanks, Rice.

Nice pak boong, Bobby.

[bobby57]

We work on between 12-14 weeks from transplant (into the final growing bed) to when we pull them out. They are staggered so that we will always have tomatoes. It's a question of how many beds you have divided by 12-14 to figure out how many you are going to plant each week.

Hopefully I can pick your brains a bit! Below pictures of seed bed - initial transplant and final stage. The final is from the first lot I tried! They are in floating beds with no airation and only the chemicals from Bangsa.. have now bought new chemicals from Wesco which should improve things - can't make em worse!! Any comments would be greatly appreciated.