Causing Someone To 'lose Face'.

[Eastender]

I still don't fully understand this concept, and I'm still wary that I could do something that unknowingly puts another person in to that losing face situation.

So, can you give some examples, imaginary or your own, that would cause this.

Thanks.

[Pepe']

I still don't fully understand this concept, and I'm still wary that I could do something that unknowingly puts another person in to that losing face situation.

So, can you give some examples, imaginary or your own, that would cause this.

Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Check and search out a post "This concept of face". We had a long discussion about this last year...

[ProfessorFart]

I'll try and give you the advice I give to anyone visiting Thailand.

Basically do not do or say anything to a Thai which you feel may cause them embarrasment, publicly or in private.

Put yourself in their shoes and consider how your actions will be taken by them no matter how harmless they may seem to you.

If in doubt then err on the side of caution.

The concept of 'face' is a thorny one and many people spend decades trying to fathom it out.

[penelope]

I still don't fully understand this concept, and I'm still wary that I could do something that unknowingly puts another person in to that losing face situation.

So, can you give some examples, imaginary or your own, that would cause this.

Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A million examples could be used, but I'll thow in one that is close to heart :

You are playing golf with a senior thai executive and some of his more junior lackies, and he repeatedly breaches golf etiquette ie: standing on your putting line, not repairing pitch marks,not calling "fore" etc... You must apply "kreng jai" with jedi like precision ie: don't mention his indescretions in front of all the "nongs" or he will lose face. Instead, it would be more tactical to subtlely bestow the importance of ettiquette in a personal conversation over post round drinks.

[Explorer]

Rule #1

Do not spit at a Thai especially if he carries a gun.

Explorer

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Rule #1

Do not spit at a Thai especially if he carries a gun.

Explorer 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Particularly not at a Thai copper around Kanchanaburi

[Ajarn]

In my estimation, the more fragile the ego is, the bigger their face feels to them.

I believe you can't 'make' someone lose face unless they agree

And one must be very careful here if they agree...

Edited February 16, 2005 by Ajarn

[stumonster]

First take a chainsaw and........oh wait

face is a shortened form of facade - If you have to deal with someone with one be aware that the arse end does not correspond with the outward show.

do not give their tiny little minds the idea that you are taking the piss, utilise the chinese inscrutable face technique , especially if they are carrying projectile weapons.

[Insight]

Perhaps a good way of putting explaining the term "face" to a beginner is treating it like "pride".

Everybody has a default amount of pride to begin with, so don't do anything publicly to that person that could lower it...

[RDN]

I think Thais find it very hard to laugh at themselves, so I don't do anything to make them feel so stupid that they should "laugh it off" because they can't. The funny thing is, on Thai TV there are lots of comedy programs with Thais acting the fool and the audience is laughing and screaming at them, but I just don't see it in real life.

[george]

Ask a Thai where the train station in Phuket town is.

[Heng]

Told a designer at our factory that GL-2000 for a model name sounds more like a toilet cleaner (as opposed to a computer speaker) and won't sound so good in 2001 (this was back in 1999 when I was more foreigner than local). To this day, 5 years later, he refuses to name any new model.

[Shola]

Told a designer at our factory that GL-2000 for a model name sounds more like a toilet cleaner (as opposed to a computer speaker) and won't sound so good in 2001 (this was back in 1999 when I was more  foreigner than local).  To this day, 5 years later, he refuses to name any new model. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Awww Heng! You scarred him for life!!!

[Heng]

Then again, all the local paint shops use the 2000 (2k) system of painting automobiles as the standard and no one seems to think it sounds hokie. Maybe I should have let it slide.

[chaladmak]

I wonder - why would one want to CAUSE Thai (or anyone else) "loose face" in the first place ? just for .... reaserch or experiment - or what? strange !

[Ajarn]

I wonder - why would one want to CAUSE Thai (or anyone else) "loose face" in the first place ? just for .... reaserch or experiment - or what? strange !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Revenge, of course, I'd say. Either straightforward, or like a chip on your shoulder from some past perceived injury.

I honestly can't think of another reason...

Sadly, one reads many stories here of people bragging because they tried to humiliate someone else, like a Thai.

But, I sure can understand the frustration that comes from some situations with Thais here! That's why I don't own any lethal weapons

[OxfordWill]

As you have read, you can cause a Thai or anyone else to 'lose' face. However, you can and should also be keen on helping to be the catalyst for someone to 'gain' face. This is especially useful if that someone is someone you might like to impress or eventually get on your side (boss, mother in law, etc).

Basically, you make someone look good in the eyes of others. This can include giving an important or expensive looking gift such as foreign goods, and making sure their friends see it. Or it could be showing suitable admiration for a new idea of strategem your boss comes up with etc etc. You will be liked for having improved their 'status' or 'face' and as such, let off your smaller mistakes that you will be bound to make in future.

It's more subtle than sucking up, but it has the same basic tenets.

p.s. I find that Thais are able to laugh at themselves. It all depends on the person. Infact, I know more westerners who take themselves too seriously. the crucial bit is context. You have to know when it is ok to 'take the piss' and when it is not. Usually this can be determined by how high the potential for face loss is. If you are surrounded by 'lesser' colleagues, do not joke about the boss' neck tie.

Edited February 16, 2005 by OxfordWill

[chaladmak]

....helping to be the catalyst for someone to 'gain' face

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well - that's a nice subject for a thread - isn't it?

why somehow not many such ?

[Eastender]

OxfordWill. Nice reply. Have read and heard much on losing face, but little or none on gaining face. Food for thought.

As you hint, a fine line between getting along and sucking up. But we all have egos and we all either want it fed or to protect it to some extent.