Thaksin Scores Over Newin In Sakon Nakhon By-election

[sriracha john]

As said, there's a separate thread for that discussion, but it doesn't cover private schools (presuming that with your high income and talk about increasing fees, that you don't send your son to a government school).

I didn't know 100,000 Baht a month is called "high income" You made me laugh so hard.

When the average income is far less, then 100,000 is, indeed, high income. You should get out more amongst your fellow Thais and discover what the average Thai income buys and how they live. Then maybe you wouldn't find it so funny nor laugh at the notion you make significantly more than they do. Anyway, I'm glad I could help you to understand that the free government school program doesn't apply to your son.

Edited June 23, 2009 by sriracha john

[catmac]

So a wife of a guy caught for buying votes wins an election, and Thaksin makes personal phone calls - what a day for democracy indeed!

Will these people ever learn anything?

Nope - all they want back to power and here seem to be a bundle

of people who support these de facto thieve clans!

just looking at some of the evidence, hard to imagine why!

What evidence for what?

Why not stay with the truth? The husband, Pongsak Boonson, of the winning candidate Anurak Boonson wasn't caught with vote buying. that is not true.

Pongsak was red-carded for "making defamatory remarks about the Puea Pandin Party during his campaign." Ohh, what a crime!

On a sidenote, Pongsak was also part of the so called 'Friends of Newin' faction in the PPP, until september last year.

Now look here, Hagen, how dare you post the truth about the reason why Pongsak Boonson was red-carded!

How can dear old Plus and Animatic keep on with their hoary old mantra of "They weren't elected - they bought their votes!" if you start giving the facts?

Whenever the Dems or their bedfellows lose an election you can be sure that the claim of the winner having bribed someone will spew forth from the usual suspects. No evidence is ever forthcoming of course.

Now I see that Plus and Animatic are having a field day over the fact that 1/3rd of the electors didn't vote for Anurak Boonson! Eh? You mean 2/3rds of the entire electorate did vote for her - a figure that I think many MP's anywhere in the World would be quite happy to achieve. If one discounts those that didn't vote at all, poor old Newin's proxy must have made a really dismal showing.

[animatic]

What other leverage does Thaksin, on the run, have

except distributing largess through his machine?

Oh, it must be love that makes him call the Kamnan's

and then they jump to his tune.

it's always been a given that many corners of the northeast

will still vote for these people. It is also quite clear why that is so.

Many deny this, for whatever theological ends they decide to subscribe too.

Doesn't make it good for Thailand or the thai people, even if some parallel

good things might get cynically grafted onto the master grifter's graft machine's direction of motion.

Edited June 23, 2009 by animatic

[grandpops]

So a wife of a guy caught for buying votes wins an election, and Thaksin makes personal phone calls - what a day for democracy indeed!

Will these people ever learn anything?

Nope - all they want back to power and here seem to be a bundle

of people who support these de facto thieve clans!

just looking at some of the evidence, hard to imagine why!

What evidence for what?

Why not stay with the truth? The husband, Pongsak Boonson, of the winning candidate Anurak Boonson wasn't caught with vote buying. that is not true.

Pongsak was red-carded for "making defamatory remarks about the Puea Pandin Party during his campaign." Ohh, what a crime!

On a sidenote, Pongsak was also part of the so called 'Friends of Newin' faction in the PPP, until september last year.

Now look here, Hagen, how dare you post the truth about the reason why Pongsak Boonson was red-carded!

How can dear old Plus and Animatic keep on with their hoary old mantra of "They weren't elected - they bought their votes!" if you start giving the facts?

Whenever the Dems or their bedfellows lose an election you can be sure that the claim of the winner having bribed someone will spew forth from the usual suspects. No evidence is ever forthcoming of course.

Now I see that Plus and Animatic are having a field day over the fact that 1/3rd of the electors didn't vote for Anurak Boonson! Eh? You mean 2/3rds of the entire electorate did vote for her - a figure that I think many MP's anywhere in the World would be quite happy to achieve. If one discounts those that didn't vote at all, poor old Newin's proxy must have made a really dismal showing.

All grist to the mill.

There was almost enough anger in April against the powers that be and this whilst Abhisit was enjoying some sort of honeymoon period.

Just need a few more byelections and the courts overturning them again for such things as farting in a public toilet, phoning a friend on Who wants to be a millionaire, not having boyish good lucks, having once been in the National Stadium at the same time as Thaksin drove past etc. etc.

So sad that 66 percent of the eligible voters does not constitute a majority in the minds of some great falang minds on here. The only alternative being that Animatic, SRJ and co are saying the Thais involved are all stupid. Either way, they are well wide of the mark and as bang out of order as usual.

Some elections in the uk were won with less than 30 percent of the voters turning out, bear in mind that 30 - 35 percent can win an election if more than 3 people stand and you have elected councillors elected on around 10 percent of eligible voters.

Just admit it. There is no interest in Democracy from the Democrats or their masters or apologists on here.

Edit, results of local elections 2002 England http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/resea...02/rp02-033.pdf

A. The results

Estimates suggest that the Conservatives won 34% of the vote nationwide, compared to

33% Labour, 27% Liberal Democrat and 5% for other parties. As elections did not take

place in all areas, these figures are not indicative of possible General Election vote shares.

Turnout was estimated to be higher than at previous local elections, at around 34%.

So by this recogning, the leading conservative party polled around 10 percent of elegible voters!!

Edited June 23, 2009 by grandpops

[Insight]

Is there a red-shirt rally any time soon?

[baht&sold]

Is there a red-shirt rally any time soon?

Yes, stay away from flammable tankers again aimed at poor people who've had enough and see through Mr Thaksin's self-serving enterprise/party/business.

[Datsun240Z]

I translated some video interview from Thaksin onto paper:

Thaksin</SPAN>’s Interview with Al Jazeera Januari 07, 2009:

Interviewer: So what does a disposed prime minister do with his time, when he’s out of office. Thaksin Shinawatra is beeing seen in London, Beijing, Hong Kong and Singapore. Now where at an exclusive golf club in Dubai, to ask him the question directly and find out if he pines for the power he once had and for Thailand, it’s self.

Thaksin: My philosophy in life is that, when you have the duty to do some anything, you do your best. And you never do feel regret when things is past, because you have done your best. But your best maybe not the best, but your best, you have to be there. And, I try everything in what I do, when either that is business, whether it’s family, whether is politics, i try to do my best.

Interviewer: So what are you doing now, you’r doing your best in whatever your doing, but everyone is wondering because Kuhn Thaksin, your in London, your in Beijing, your in Singapore….

Thaksin: yes, yes, yes… when the time to relax, you better relax and you know in relax, people have different means to relax. I love golf so I relax by playing golf. I love seeing friends, having a whine with friends. I you have a good whine, you have to accompany with good food and good companion. I you can have good whine with good food and good companion you will be relax. So I go out eating with friends, and when I go to several countries, I always going to see friends. But when things happened at the government, Thai government that’s to nervous about our meeting friends in political circle, uhm, I feel a bit upset because it’s normal in political life in uh in human life in international politics, that we always see each others, regardless what capacity of yours.

Interviewer: But what about innocence you have to strive for excellence in sports and business it’s very competitive and politics, is that why you think you’r involved in all three of them, I mean you’r very…..

Thaksin: Right, in politics you have to have the gifted also as the practice. The patience to be consistory practice. But at my age it’s not easy to go excellence.

Interviewer: How old are you?

Thaksin: 57, I look 75 …

Interviewer: You want to go back to do politics?

Thaksin: I don’t think…you know if you like, you come here in Dubai, you see change how rapid change and growth, you know this is what: it’s the combination of vision, braveness and capital..they have everything.

Interviewer: Courage..

Thaksin: Courage, if you don’t have courage, if you lack any one ingredient, it’s not gonna work. If you have no vision, but you have courage..you can do something that is not..you know. This is Dubai, they have courage, they have vision, they have capital to invest so this is very successful. Things like this, i’d like to see more in Thailand. But I’m now 57. I like the younger generation that follow the development of the world and understand the world better, to run the country. And the country is belong to everyone, that everyone should be unite and put the country forward. Not just trying to fight among ourselves. I’m travelling a lot, I see the development from different places of the world, so I see how each country develop, whether it’s backward or forward, or just stand still. So this is what I really want to young generation, to understand the world better, to lead the country.

Interviewer: You’r the only man who’s been elected twice, what are you doing here, why you’r on a golf course….

Thaksin: A friend of mine who’s provide a place for me to live. He is a very successful businessman. When we sat on the private jet together and he saw uhm, thinking and he said, you know, I don’t understand why the people like you, have to fell in this position. You’ve been a very successful businessman, you’ve been a very successful politicians, and you have don a lot, and why is become like this. I said, well you know, if you believe in karma, if you have done a lot of good thing, all the good thing will come back to you. And this is like the karma of uhm..my last life, I don’t know. So it’s just we have to adjust ourselves, we have to live with it, but I think it’s not gonna be here forever. Phone goes: my wife calling me.

Interviewer: Okay, break…

Continu:

Interviewer: You’r wife is in Bangkok I heard, when you have to see…

Thaksin: Yes, Yes, we family, you know, we are close to each others, we are well warmed family, because we always keep in touch, every days.

Interviewer: Right, and there all over?

Thaksin: Uhm.. Two children in uhm uh..1 daughter in London, my sons and little daughter in Bangkok with my wife.

Interviewer: We where talking before your phone call came about..let’s forget about your past life, what about this life, what is your response to many criticism, of the way you handled your premiership…

Thaksin: You know, there’s a group of people that really go and get me, don’t like me, those who really oppose me, a group but it’s not much. If they dare to have the general election, we gonna win again. So they don’t like the majority rules, that’s what happen. And also they allow me, some media’s in Thailand never allow me to speak the truth. That is the problems I have to face. Know they still try to look for some minor angles to criticize me, even when i’m announced i’m quiting practically. But this is something I really upset about, why they keep criticize me, and the way the criticise, without a fact, and never listen to my side of the story at all. That is nearly the situation.

Interviewer: Where 3, 4 months further since the coup happened, the military regime said they where going to present proof of rampant corruption during your administration, uhm what are they gonna find?

Thaksin: Finally their might be legend with baseless evidence and some even try to bend the law, just to justify the coup, the reason for coup. But, finally if it go to the justice system, the court house, I don’t think there would be anyone guilty, because we have done a lot to protect it, but corruption become an excuse for every coup, they’r all alike. The corruption still allow, and some hunta’s in the past turned to be more corrupt then the government they are troubled out.

[HagenvonTronje]

I translated some video interview from Thaksin onto paper:

Thaksin</SPAN>’s Interview with Al Jazeera Januari 07, 2009:

i prefere written text over listening. it's faster. so thanks for your effort. but why you didn't provide a link to your source? the video of the interview is online, you can watch it here..

it's an interview from january 2007 and not 2009. thaksin talking about his wife and that he is 57 years old should had gave you that hint, same as the lack of references to any recent events in thai politics of january 2009.

and now? what you wanna show? your skills as secretary to transcribe some spoken words?

[Datsun240Z]

Sorry for the incorrect date. No, I just want to show that he means a better way for the Thai people. And that he has been put of power, by the wrong people. Legally he is still the Prime Minister of Thailand, not Abhisit he is not even chosen legally nor by it's own people of Thailand.

Edited June 23, 2009 by Datsun240Z

[sriracha john]

Interviewer: So what are you doing now

Thaksin: I love seeing friends, having a whine with friends.

Edited June 23, 2009 by sriracha john

[Insight]

Is there a red-shirt rally any time soon?

Yes, stay away from flammable tankers again aimed at poor people who've had enough and see through Mr Thaksin's self-serving enterprise/party/business.

Yeah, as if the re-emergence of the usual suspects on here wasn't enough to go on....

[Plus]

How can dear old Plus and Animatic keep on with their hoary old mantra of "They weren't elected - they bought their votes!" if you start giving the facts?

I said no such thing.

This is the second time you deride people for things they haven't said, without even a little "sorry, my mistake".

Try to display some manners if you want to be taken seriously and not as some internet troll.

Now I see that Plus and Animatic are having a field day over the fact that 1/3rd of the electors didn't vote for Anurak Boonson! Eh? You mean 2/3rds of the entire electorate did vote for her - a figure that I think many MP's anywhere in the World would be quite happy to achieve.

In places like Sakhon Nakhon it's a loss of 30% for PTP. They used to get over 90% in those areas, and that drop in support in their backyard is quite an indicator of what's going to happen in nationwide elections.

[sriracha john]

How can dear old Plus and Animatic keep on with their hoary old mantra of "They weren't elected - they bought their votes!" if you start giving the facts?

I said no such thing.

This is the second time you deride people for things they haven't said, without even a little "sorry, my mistake".

Try to display some manners if you want to be taken seriously and not as some internet troll.

[wolfmanjack]

They spent money on uniforms, text books, supplies - that kind of stuff. 15 year free program is on the way, I think. There's a thread for it on TV.

About a third of people in Sakhon Nakhon didn't vote for Thaksin - in his own backyard.

Actually the free school program is already started. There were no school fees this year at my kids public school. Zero fees. not one baht. the books and clothes cost more than the 552 baht they gave but it was a good start and took off a great burden from the parents that could not afford books, clothes, and school fees.

[wolfmanjack]

They spent money on uniforms, text books, supplies - that kind of stuff. 15 year free program is on the way, I think. There's a thread for it on TV.

I don't know what they do, but the fee for my son cost 6,000 Baht more than last term. Some students protested at school.

What's the result for the 2,000 Baht stimulus package?

That is strange. the fees for my kids last year were only 1600 baht each and this year it was zero baht. You heard me right not one single baht for school fees. I have to conclude that your kids are not going to a public government school but a private school of some sort and should not be paid for by the government in any way.

[jayboy]

How can dear old Plus and Animatic.....

Now I see that Plus and Animatic are having a field day...

It's always inadvisable to pair people you deem to have similar political outlooks because the reality is usually is that they are strikingly different.In this instance it's akin to pairing Sophocles and Scooby Doo.

[HagenvonTronje]

How can dear old Plus and Animatic keep on with their hoary old mantra of "They weren't elected - they bought their votes!" if you start giving the facts?

I said no such thing.

This is the second time you deride people for things they haven't said, without even a little "sorry, my mistake".

Try to display some manners if you want to be taken seriously and not as some internet troll.

mhm, for me looks that you had said it. or isn't the comment below, Post #18 in this thread, about vote buying? and also some rhetoric remark what that day could mean for 'democracy'?

So a wife of a guy caught for buying votes wins an election, and Thaksin makes personal phone calls - what a day for democracy indeed!

...

[nitecm]

How can dear old Plus and Animatic keep on with their hoary old mantra of "They weren't elected - they bought their votes!" if you start giving the facts?

I said no such thing.

In places like Sakhon Nakhon it's a loss of 30% for PTP. They used to get over 90% in those areas, and that drop in support in their backyard is quite an indicator of what's going to happen in nationwide elections.

You did not understand ISSAN

[rixalex]

You said that you were amazed that people hate Thaksin. Well i'm amazed that you are amazed!

If you have lived in this country for the last ten years or so you would know that there is plenty about him to hate - and the same goes for the vast majority of politicians in this country. They are out for themselves, driven by greed. It so happens that Thaksin has done a better job than most of the rest in using democracy for his own personal gain. Some perversely admire this about him. I don't.

And, of course, he did rather push a lot of the old hi-so elite snouts out of the trough! So I can fully understand why they hate him!

So what? I have my reasons for disliking him - if others have their own selfish reasons for hating him that's their problem - i have no sympathy for them just as i have no sympathy for Thaksin - both old snouts and new snouts are equally as repugnant and i certainly wouldn't be wasting my time trying to argue which is the better - kind of like arguing that Cancer was better than AIDs, or vice-versa.

By the way, I have lived in Thailand for over 10 years, so please don't be so presumptuous.

In your recent posts you have advised me to read more carefully and not be so presumptous. Any chance you could practice what you preach? The "if" in "If you have lived in this country for the last ten years or so..." means "if" funnily enough. It doesn't mean "you have not", nor for that matter does it mean "you have". It means "if". Clear?

As to why it is that you claim to have lived in Thailand for more than ten years and yet feel the need to be asking why it is that people don't like Thaksin is a mystery i'm afraid i can't help you with. Open those peepers perhaps?

[rixalex]

As said, there's a separate thread for that discussion, but it doesn't cover private schools (presuming that with your high income and talk about increasing fees, that you don't send your son to a government school).

I didn't know 100,000 Baht a month is called "high income" You made me laugh so hard.

You know Koo82, i had you down as being many things but never arrogant. Seems i was wrong.

Do you laugh in the face of the millions of workers in Thailand who barely earn a tenth of your alleged income?

[Plus]

You did not understand ISSAN

I'm trying to. I'm having hard time with any reasonable explanation for their voting patterns that does not present them in a very bad light.

So a wife of a guy caught for buying votes wins an election

I did not say she paid for the votes, I haven't seen any complains about vote buying this time, and if her husband was disqualified for something else rather than buying votes, it has nothing to do with the current case.

This time Sakhon Nakhon voted with conviction, but it's good to know that a third of them have stopped chasing Thaksin dream.

>>>

Commentators in the Nation said that leaflets featuring Newin with Thaksin and Abhisit made a great impact - they clearly displayed him as a traitor.

Newin can reply that his allegiance lies with voters and Thailand in general and he can work with any other politicians if that would bring benefits to the people, and he doesn't have to serve Thaksin for the rest of his life.

Maybe this argument will make sense to Isanese, who value loyalty to pooyais above caring for the country, adavnced democracts that they are.

[jayboy]

As said, there's a separate thread for that discussion, but it doesn't cover private schools (presuming that with your high income and talk about increasing fees, that you don't send your son to a government school).

I didn't know 100,000 Baht a month is called "high income" You made me laugh so hard.

You know Koo82, i had you down as being many things but never arrogant. Seems i was wrong.

Do you laugh in the face of the millions of workers in Thailand who barely earn a tenth of your alleged income?

I don't think you are being fair at all.Koo clearly wasn't referring to Thai workers but the expatriates who pontificate (including yours truly) on this forum.And yes for this group Bt 100,000 per month is rather a low income.Yes I know there are various respectable retirees and teachers (as well as the horde of ne'er do wells and deadbeats) who have far less than that.But for educated professionals - and that's the intended tone of discussion on this forum one presumes - Bt 100,000 is on the low side.

[Plus]

It is assumed that Koo is a Thai woman, a true Thaksin supporter, and so her family income is assumed to be in line with the rest of the red shirts.

Or is Thaksin, once the richest man in the country, is the champion of the poor, and the poor themselves live on a low income of 100,000 baht per month?

[jayboy]

Maybe this argument will make sense to Isanese, who value loyalty to pooyais above caring for the country, ..

Actually this is in my opinion a Thai characteristic not just an Isaan one.Despite the rhetoric of patriotism I think most Thais don't really have love of country as their prime motivation, or even a particularly important one.Sure there's a national pride when say a boxer wins a medal at the Olympics but overall loyalty is to the family, immediate community or as you suggest various pooyais.There is a surprising absence of sankom khwam rapit chop - which is the bedrock of those who truly care about their country possibly reflecting the sense of Thai identity is a relatively recent development.The disgusting language used at PAD rallies about the rural majority does not reflect a love of country but a deeply enshrined selfishness.So please no more piffle about Isaanesse who do not care for their country.

[jayboy]

It is assumed that Koo is a Thai woman, a true Thaksin supporter, and so her family income is assumed to be in line with the rest of the red shirts.

I never make assumptions about Thai Visa members.It's an anonymous forum.

However my point now is that there are many many middle class supporters of the Red movement, even if they don't sport red shirts.

[sriracha john]

As said, there's a separate thread for that discussion, but it doesn't cover private schools (presuming that with your high income and talk about increasing fees, that you don't send your son to a government school).

I didn't know 100,000 Baht a month is called "high income" You made me laugh so hard.

You know Koo82, i had you down as being many things but never arrogant. Seems i was wrong.

Do you laugh in the face of the millions of workers in Thailand who barely earn a tenth of your alleged income?

I don't think you are being fair at all.Koo clearly wasn't referring to Thai workers but the expatriates who pontificate (including yours truly) on this forum.And yes for this group Bt 100,000 per month is rather a low income.Yes I know there are various respectable retirees and teachers (as well as the horde of ne'er do wells and deadbeats) who have far less than that.But for educated professionals - and that's the intended tone of discussion on this forum one presumes - Bt 100,000 is on the low side.

The discussion was on free government schools and why "her" son wasn't apparently a part of it...how many ex-pats are involved in that? Particularly those ex-pats whose income exceeds 100,000 baht? But...

Perhaps best to leave it to "her" to explain what he/she meant in the post rather than make misstatements on "her" behalf?

[HagenvonTronje]

So a wife of a guy caught for buying votes wins an election

I did not say she paid for the votes, I haven't seen any complains about vote buying this time, and if her husband was disqualified for something else rather than buying votes, it has nothing to do with the current case.

...

Hallo,

you still get the difference between true and false?

your statement that that her 'husband got caught with vote buying' is false. and you didn't said the truth. you get it wrong. same as your statement that 'you never said anything about vote buying' - it's false.

can we hear some "little "sorry, my mistake".? some "Try to display some manners if you want to be taken seriously and not as some internet troll."

i don't see where catmac is trolling here, it's more just you alone and scooby do.

and yeah, another false and untrue of your statements - in that Constituency there wasn't in the last 10 years any election with a 90% yes vote for a single candidate. so your 1/3 didn't vote for the PTP candidate is actually a indicator for nothing but your bizarre and silly logic.

[sriracha john]

How can dear old Plus and Animatic keep on with their hoary old mantra of "They weren't elected - they bought their votes!" if you start giving the facts?

Please provide a link to the post where those words that you quoted are used. Thank you.

[Insight]

It is assumed that Koo is a Thai woman, a true Thaksin supporter, and so her family income is assumed to be in line with the rest of the red shirts.

I never make assumptions about Thai Visa members.It's an anonymous forum.

However my point now is that there are many many middle class supporters of the Red movement, even if they don't sport red shirts.

I know the salaries of a lot of the Thais I work with who consider themselves "middle class", and I can tell you now they're well short of the 100,000 baht per month Koo has previously stated she's earning.

For so-called middle-class, 100,000 baht a month is pretty exceptional.

(And I seriously can't see any of them being red-shirt supporters. A large majority of them still wear the staple yellow on a Monday, whatever that means nowadays.)

[jayboy]

The discussion was on free government schools and why "her" son wasn't apparently a part of it...how many ex-pats are involved in that? Particularly those ex-pats whose income exceeds 100,000 baht? But...

Perhaps best to leave it to "her" to explain what he/she meant in the post rather than make misstatements on "her" behalf?

Ok you make a fair point on the free government school discussion context.