Question About Wp, Company Capital And Number Of Employees

[samILO]

I guess the same conditions would apply as getting a WP from a company i.e. has to be work that is allowed to do by a foreigner, no criminal record, has to be something a thai cannot do, worked here before or show diploma's, etc,

Would love to get more info and/or confirmation on this.

Also, how to set up the sole proprietorship?

Sole Proprietorship:

The Thai national goes to the CRO (company registration office) to register their business under its name. Costs a few hundred baht. Get paperwork and then go to the Labor Department to file for application of Work Permit.

No requirement of having Thai Employees, as it is a regulation of either having 1.0 Mio THB Capita (or 2 for foreigners not married to Thai) or having 4 employees, no regulation says you have to have both, except on application of 1 years visa extension under work permit rules.

We doing this since 15 years, my staff is daily at the Labor Department on Phuket, but new officer new interpretations, other province different office means again different interpretation of the rules. New boss again new interpretations, something that was possible 3 month ago might not go anymore or even WP's previously issued might not be extended anymore upon future check. Best advice, be truthful on your applications, follow the law and listen to the officer when he is trying to tell you something. Don't get into an argument with the officer, that could be negative.

[ubonjoe]

I am not going to suggest a business to get into.

There is lot of info in the BOI business guide (85 pages).

Chapter 5 (page 45) covers legal issues such as work permits and etc. along with lists of prohibited busnesses and occupations.

BOI_business_guide.pdf

You would need legal advise on setting up the business. I don't think you would need one that is experienced with setting up foreign owned companies so it should not cost a lot of money. After that it would just be a matter of bookeeping for the taxes and etc.

Edit: Changed file to new edition.

[asiawatcher]

Would love some advice on what constitutes employees. I have a 5M Baht PUC company. I have a work permit and have had since 2001. I am married, registered at the amphur office and all taxes paid. I need to bring in a foreigner into a start up company here with also 5M Baht PUC. Our future partner to the JV is one of the top companies in Thailand but all services provided here are by contracts to offshore people employing local Thai when they come here. We do not have or need employees but contribute annually in millions of Baht to Thai's under contracts.

The Canadian Consulate is giving us grief over the Non Imm B Visa for the new MD. The applicant in question is undoubted and there is not a single Thai person in this country able to fulfil the role of MD. Our average contract employs 60-80 Thai's for its duration, some as long as 4 months and employment numbers as high as 300 but because the Consulate has no idea of our business they are saying they want a 10M PUC company as to date we have no tax records or payments on VAT to revenue Dept. Why would that make any difference.

Seems to me lack of knowledge and understanding by some public service mentality offshore is delaying or losing me a JV opportunity worth billions of Baht in income to Thailand. Of course we can just stamp on arrival, do it without Work Permits and takes some riskes, pay the overstays etc and do all the crap that happens here but surely Immigration of the Ministry - if they read these blogs - should understand just because it is not in writing (yet) they can't do it! Hopefully common sense will prevail.

Thoughts (and don't suggest bribes or use the JV backers contacts) as this is a stand alone deal subject to our performance.

Cheers

[ubonjoe]

The Canadian Consulate is giving us grief over the Non Imm B Visa for the new MD.

You might be trying for the visa at the wrong consulate. I would guess you are trying at the one in Vancouver or the Embassy in Ottawa.

Try some of the others near the bottom of this webpage. They are honorary consulates and should be easier to deal with.

http://www.magma.ca/~thaiott/visa3.htm

[ivowatson]

Sole Proprietorship:

The Thai national goes to the CRO (company registration office) to register their business under its name. Costs a few hundred baht. Get paperwork and then go to the Labor Department to file for application of Work Permit.

No requirement of having Thai Employees, as it is a regulation of either having 1.0 Mio THB Capita (or 2 for foreigners not married to Thai) or having 4 employees, no regulation says you have to have both, except on application of 1 years visa extension under work permit rules.

We doing this since 15 years, my staff is daily at the Labor Department on Phuket, but new officer new interpretations, other province different office means again different interpretation of the rules. New boss again new interpretations, something that was possible 3 month ago might not go anymore or even WP's previously issued might not be extended anymore upon future check. Best advice, be truthful on your applications, follow the law and listen to the officer when he is trying to tell you something. Don't get into an argument with the officer, that could be negative.

Great. Thanks a lot.

P.S. I hope this is not your idea of your day off.

Anyway, you're a big help.

[ivowatson]

I am not going to suggest a business to get into.

There is lot of info in the BOI business guide (85 pages).

Chapter 5 (page 45) covers legal issues such as work permits and etc. along with lists of prohibited busnesses and occupations.

BOI_business_guide.pdf

You would need legal advise on setting up the business. I don't think you would need one that is experienced with setting up foreign owned companies so it should not cost a lot of money. After that it would just be a matter of bookeeping for the taxes and etc.

Thanks for the link to the BOI business guide. Very interesting read.

However, you wouldn't have a more recent one? Oct. 2007 seems a bit outdated. I know e.g. that now you need only 3 shareholders not 7 anymore. Am not sure about the rest.

[ubonjoe]

I am not going to suggest a business to get into.

There is lot of info in the BOI business guide (85 pages).

Chapter 5 (page 45) covers legal issues such as work permits and etc. along with lists of prohibited busnesses and occupations.

BOI_business_guide.pdf

You would need legal advise on setting up the business. I don't think you would need one that is experienced with setting up foreign owned companies so it should not cost a lot of money. After that it would just be a matter of bookeeping for the taxes and etc.

Thanks for the link to the BOI business guide. Very interesting read.

However, you wouldn't have a more recent one? Oct. 2007 seems a bit outdated. I know e.g. that now you need only 3 shareholders not 7 anymore. Am not sure about the rest.

Just checked BOI website here is a new one dated May of this year.

Link: http://www.boi.go.th/english/services/ABusGuide-May09.pdf

There is more guides and such on this page. http://www.boi.go.th/english/services/guides.asp

[ubonjoe]

I own a limited company that has just been given a work permit. We needed to show 500,000 baht in cash for the 2 million capitol, the rest was shown as assets.

Loads of other hoops to jump through as well as having to spend quite a bit of time and money fixing the errors that were made when a certain sponsor of the forum gave us the wrong advice when we incorperated the company.

Choose your legal advisor carefully, and take advice from all forums with a pinch of salt.

Tomster.

You won't see me giving advise on business formation it is way to complicated. I may post some information as a help so they at least have some idea of what is required. I normally tell people they need to get legal advice on setting up a company. Even getting work permits will need some help because of the way the labor offices do things.

Ask me about a visa and I will give you plenty of advise because immigration is more transparent than the other goverment offices in how they operate..

[GeorgeK]

The sole proprietor can not employ a foreigner with WP (except the burmese, Lao, Cambodia where allowed under special regulations) This is an exemption under the Labor Code for the legally married spouse only. Unfortunately the Labor Department home page is very poor on this matter and I ony got the new laws as PDF file, will get you the regulation and the necessary documents tomorrow after I am back at the office.

A quick question to clarify the statement you made... "This is an exemption under the Labor Code for the legally married spouse only". I am Canadian and my wife is Thai, so does that mean it is possible for me to get a WP if she had a sole proprietorship? or do you mean the spouses of only the countries listed?

If it is possible does she need to have 1 million paid up capital or any other requirements before she would be able to employ me?

Thanks, for the help by the way.

[samILO]

A quick question to clarify the statement you made... "This is an exemption under the Labor Code for the legally married spouse only". I am Canadian and my wife is Thai, so does that mean it is possible for me to get a WP if she had a sole proprietorship? or do you mean the spouses of only the countries listed?

If it is possible does she need to have 1 million paid up capital or any other requirements before she would be able to employ me?

Thanks, for the help by the way.

In your case this exemption fits exactly. She doesn't need to have 1.0 Mio capital, thats the nice part of it. And your most welcome.

[DTiger]

...

If it is possible does she need to have 1 million paid up capital or any other requirements before she would be able to employ me?

...

In your case this exemption fits exactly. She doesn't need to have 1.0 Mio capital, thats the nice part of it. And your most welcome.

Hi Sam

That's the first time I can read clearly about this. First thanks for your input!

By nearly all means, it seems so a better way to start a "small" business here. The only exception is : "A sole proprietorship is a business owned by a sole natural person whose liability is unlimited", that unlimited liability of course.

From your experience, with foreigners involved, does it mean special troubles?

Thanks!

[samILO]

...

If it is possible does she need to have 1 million paid up capital or any other requirements before she would be able to employ me?

...

In your case this exemption fits exactly. She doesn't need to have 1.0 Mio capital, thats the nice part of it. And your most welcome.

Hi Sam

That's the first time I can read clearly about this. First thanks for your input!

By nearly all means, it seems so a better way to start a "small" business here. The only exception is : "A sole proprietorship is a business owned by a sole natural person whose liability is unlimited", that unlimited liability of course.

From your experience, with foreigners involved, does it mean special troubles?

Thanks!

Hi DTiger,

It all depends on the circumstances of the business. Most foreigners we advised to use such are 1. good friends who lived for a long period of time in Thailand and understand the system, run a business without financial investment or very limited investment (as of the risk loosing such) and work with their own specific skills, so if the business is closed, as of having problems with the Employer, they can take their skills and open a new business under a company ltd. or with another employer. It is a business type in which the Owner is fully liable as you stated having unlimited liability, thus also from this side one has to look at the risks before making a decision. Sorry I can't give a general OK on such type, as clients have to make decisions, but as long clients know the advantages and disadvantages of the different types of registration of business, they can make the right decision for their specific case. Thus I would suggest you discuss this matter in person with a Lawyer or Legal Firm of your trust.

[samILO]

They also know about preferential shares, while most 'qualified' Thais haven't got as clue.....

Andy that scares the hel_l outta me. Current rules are Pref Shares that do not allow the same voting rights to thai's are now illegal. Please be careful indicating voting rights as these days, 51% ownership means 51% of the vote to Thai's. There are ways around this of course but don't use pref shares or find yourself being investigated.

As to visits - yes they will come - sooner or later. They used to inspect the premises prior to issuing compliance back in the good ole days! Be aware, you need your sign in place and all the appropriate workings of a functional office even if there are no employees present at the time.

Cheers

I very much doubt this information as there is no law (official rules, internal rules) stating that such would be illegal and some companies had recently be checked by special police force from BGKK having preferential shares with different voting rights, holding land ownership and been cleared as the Thai shareholders are no nominees, but had evidence of payment for shares including evidence where such funds are from.

[torrenova]

And they wonder why people work illegally, circumventing the employment regulations and sometimes just cannot afford to pay the stupid fees, comply with ever changing rules and half the time those rules are just made up and not enshrined in law.

Make it easier and more will comply and they will likely raise more income.

[ThaiBasil]

All really helpfull information. I am almost there as well but (stupidly I thought I had to do this one thing and I would be finished with the whole thing):

I am a bit stuck at the Company Capital. Some months ago I went the office for a work permit for advice (Chiang Rai), there was only one person who could speak a bit english. He adviced me to bring the marriage documents and arrange a Non-B and then come back to sort out all the rest (company papers, contracts etc.).

I arranged these two things and came back last Tuesday to get started on the rest. The english speaking person wasn't there and I had to deal with the head of the office. He wasn't helpfull at all as he didn't understand my business (real estate marketing) and he kept on saying that the capital needed to be 2 mill instead of 1 mill. But I am married to a Thai (he didn't see the documents, but kept saying it was 2 mill). He also said in Thai to my wife (who is the Director) that he doesn't worry about my company even if I had all the correct documents, simply because he didn't understand my work. So it seems like he doesn't want to help me. This is the way I set it up:

- I am the only one actually working in the company, I just made my wife the director as there was not really another option to start a business.

- Capital is 1 mill (I am planning to hire an accountant who can make it a Directors loan from the company, but still need to figure out a good accountant and the proper way to do this).

- I am working at my home in my study, behind the computer (I have a baby so I want to stay here as much as possible and thought this was a pretty good option).

What to do now? I can't arrange a 2 mill capital at this point (and don't want to) and don't want to bride the guy or work without a permit!

[ThaiBasil]

All really helpfull information. I am almost there as well but (stupidly I thought I had to do this one thing and I would be finished with the whole thing):

I am a bit stuck at the Company Capital. Some months ago I went the office for a work permit for advice (Chiang Rai), there was only one person who could speak a bit english. He adviced me to bring the marriage documents and arrange a Non-B and then come back to sort out all the rest (company papers, contracts etc.).

I arranged these two things and came back last Tuesday to get started on the rest. The english speaking person wasn't there and I had to deal with the head of the office. He wasn't helpfull at all as he didn't understand my business (real estate marketing) and he kept on saying that the capital needed to be 2 mill instead of 1 mill. But I am married to a Thai (he didn't see the documents, but kept saying it was 2 mill). He also said in Thai to my wife (who is the Director) that he doesn't worry about my company even if I had all the correct documents, simply because he didn't understand my work. So it seems like he doesn't want to help me. This is the way I set it up:

- I am the only one actually working in the company, I just made my wife the director as there was not really another option to start a business.

- Capital is 1 mill (I am planning to hire an accountant who can make it a Directors loan from the company, but still need to figure out a good accountant and the proper way to do this).

- I am working at my home in my study, behind the computer (I have a baby so I want to stay here as much as possible and thought this was a pretty good option).

What to do now? I can't arrange a 2 mill capital at this point (and don't want to) and don't want to bride the guy or work without a permit!

bump -------- noone with advice??? nobody s been in a similar situation

???

[Mario2008]

Try the business section, you might get more responses there.

[ThaiBasil]

Try the business section, you might get more responses there.

Thanks!!

[Mario2008]

Your welcome. I would do anything for your avatar.

[ThaiBasil]

Your welcome. I would do anything for your avatar.

I'm thinking of leaving my wife so we could be together forever ...... need to sort out above question first thoug, lol ......

[samILO]

All really helpfull information. I am almost there as well but (stupidly I thought I had to do this one thing and I would be finished with the whole thing):

I am a bit stuck at the Company Capital. Some months ago I went the office for a work permit for advice (Chiang Rai), there was only one person who could speak a bit english. He adviced me to bring the marriage documents and arrange a Non-B and then come back to sort out all the rest (company papers, contracts etc.).

I arranged these two things and came back last Tuesday to get started on the rest. The english speaking person wasn't there and I had to deal with the head of the office. He wasn't helpfull at all as he didn't understand my business (real estate marketing) and he kept on saying that the capital needed to be 2 mill instead of 1 mill. But I am married to a Thai (he didn't see the documents, but kept saying it was 2 mill). He also said in Thai to my wife (who is the Director) that he doesn't worry about my company even if I had all the correct documents, simply because he didn't understand my work. So it seems like he doesn't want to help me. This is the way I set it up:

- I am the only one actually working in the company, I just made my wife the director as there was not really another option to start a business.

- Capital is 1 mill (I am planning to hire an accountant who can make it a Directors loan from the company, but still need to figure out a good accountant and the proper way to do this).

- I am working at my home in my study, behind the computer (I have a baby so I want to stay here as much as possible and thought this was a pretty good option).

What to do now? I can't arrange a 2 mill capital at this point (and don't want to) and don't want to bride the guy or work without a permit!

I think you should show the officer a written version of his own regulations (he won't like that), or get a lawyer to go with you OR maybe you contact someone to explain the process and your work to him, someone best who knows the person (personal contact). BUT be careful that foreigners are not allowed to work as commission agents, so the work description is very important to be correct. I guess in Chiangmai the officers are not as used to foreigners contact them as they are in phuket or other tourist destinations.

[ThaiBasil]

Thanks SamILO!