British Couple Fights Bangkok Airport Extortionists

[krading]

Whatever the outcome, guilty or not, it all comes down to due process of the law. The 'authorities' cannot imprison someone and sell them their freedom.

[TheLaughingMan]

It's the guy allright!

And she nicked the wallet for him.

Guilty as charged.

Ah ok thankyou! Now that you have cleared all that up for us we can relax and not discuss it any further. Very good of you to give us the answer.

[TheLaughingMan]

Whatever the outcome, guilty or not, it all comes down to due process of the law. The 'authorities' cannot imprison someone and sell them their freedom.

Uh, that's the whole point, they can and do regularly in Thailand.

[sharecropper]

1. have the Brit couple responded anywhere to this video?

2. Does the guy look like the one in the video? The ID on the woman i suspect I think, from the video, and probably not good enough for a conviction in a proper court.

3. The fact they think the couple they apprehended would change clothes (which clothes?) and then sit separately from each other in a restaurant to - what - foil the security people - is a weird spin

4. But the guy getting up and going to the toilet and dumping the wallet - if it happened - would be relevant. However no fingerpints seem to have been lifted, and this part of the tale seems to smell a bit, and could always be a frame-up

5. In the end the shop, on the evidence of their tape, had reasonable cause to alert security that a theft had been committed, but whether the people they arersted were the thieving couple must be open to debate

6. And in the end, the people dragging Thailand's name further into the mire is not KP, but the post-arrest thieving, skimming, scummy scam artists.

Just my opinion.

[LuckyFive8888]

i can't believe that people are defending these couples who are in fact theives just because they are farangs!!! shame! forget about citizenship and nationalities, fact is they did stole that wallet, does that make it right when the police are wrong? (bribery?)... honestly, i do not want these people (theives) around my shop... lock them up!

Edited July 5, 2009 by LuckyFive8888

[hughben]

My girlfriend was listening to Thai radio in Bangkok and this KP thing has been happening to Thais too. She said that it had not come out before because people were afraid of those in power who control this. Now the stories with foreigners has broken, the Thais who have also been targeted are coming forward to tell their stories. Girlfriend tells me that they opened lines to the DJ and about six or seven people called in to tell their stories. This is rather ironic as Thais don't steal or shop lift; I mean you can generally leave motorbike helmets, etc, with worrying about people stealing them. In this respect Thailand is very good. Thus its quite evil to lock people up like this and only release them when they post large tea money. One lady was saying the law was wrong in that it could be abused in this way and she said all Thais should go and live in Europe where the law is fair! She said the law needed to be changed. This lady bought two cartons of cigarettes and another two were slipped into her bag. She said she is quite rich and does not need to steal; she tried to make a fuss by saying it was the shop assistant who did it and nothing to do with her!

If they continue this scam, foreign governments may advise their citizens not to visit Thailand on holiday, on the basis that you personal liberty is at risk (eg being thrown in jail and not being released if you don't pay up).

Intersting.

keep us posted with this if you can.

One thing is for sure, no matter if the British couple are thieves or not, I won't step into a store at the airport ever again.

[TheLaughingMan]

i can't believe that people are defending these couples who are in fact theives just because they are farangs!!! shame! forget about citizenship and nationalities, fact is they did stole that wallet, does that make it right when the police are wrong? (bribery?)... honestly, i do not want these people (theives) around my shop... lock them up!

The fact is? The fact is not all the facts are out and the ones that are, are pretty dodgy.

[LuckyFive8888]

i can't believe that people are defending these couples who are in fact theives just because they are farangs!!! shame! forget about citizenship and nationalities, fact is they did stole that wallet, does that make it right when the police are wrong? (bribery?)... honestly, i do not want these people (theives) around my shop... lock them up!

The fact is? The fact is not all the facts are out and the ones that are, are pretty dodgy.

is it?

there are always 2 sides of the equation;

1. they did not do it = KP benefit?

2. they did it = KP benefit?

equation 1, seems not to fit, why the hel_l the publicity for KP and tourism if in fact they are making this up?

equation 2, if i were KP i would lock them up, period.

note, the tourist police has nothing to do with KP, they were informed and i still think that they took advantage to get the bribe and it's wrong, but the couples are dam_n wrong too...

[baht&sold]

The fact is? The fact is not all the facts are out and the ones that are, are pretty dodgy.

The only hard fact is, Thailand has been trashed and sentenced for the umpteenth time before all the facts are evident.

Mai pen rai, for newspapers, blogs, forums, smiles all around, another ratings 'success'.

[Chanok]

One thing is for sure, no matter if the British couple are thieves or not, I won't step into a store at the airport ever again.

Me neither.

In fact I'm going to warn forthcoming family members to stay away from all stores.

Land of scams

[LuckyFive8888]

One thing is for sure, no matter if the British couple are thieves or not, I won't step into a store at the airport ever again.

Me neither.

In fact I'm going to warn forthcoming family members to stay away from all stores.

Land of scams

sorry to hear this from you but the thai people are one of most honest people on the planet on my experience. i cannot compare the LOS from south america, china, philippines,malaysia, indonesia, nigeria, south africa, etc. if i were to choose, i'd better choose thailand.

and you people that is slamming the country just because you have read something on the internet and just because your visas are hard to get, get out and live your life in another country!

[jackdanielsesq]

When the saga first aired, I gave each side equal weight, maybe sided with the Brits.

The change of apparel & seated at separate tables blew them out the weeds.

The wallet in the toilet trash nailed it.

Go badmouth another country,

BR>Jack

[MaiChai]

Whether they stole the wallet or not is irrelevant. The procedure is that KP have evidence that they did the crime. At the time of the incident there was insufficient evidence (or should we say KP security were not clever enough to make a case). Its the shake down to extort money that occurred afterwards that is wrong. This is the point most of you are missing. Since there was insufficient evidence they should have been released. On the basis of your personal judgement of the video, saying they should 'rot in hel_l' is not fair justice. Would you like this to happen to you, on the basis of inconclusive video and the stolen goods not found on you?

[baht&sold]

Would you like this to happen to you

Fair point. To answer part of your questions- no, most business owners would not.

[Trouble]

Am I missing something? Back in Post 170 there was a link to a story which included the first link to the King Power video and letter of explanation about the incident in the initial post. As I was reading thru the posts I was forming the ASSUMPTION that there appeared to be some scam involving King Power. I finally gave up reading the posts soon after #170 as it appeared that the bashing of King Power continued on without much objectivity in view of the video they produced. King Power obviously felt the need to respond to published reports given the bad press they are receiving over this matter. What stopped me in my tracks was the video which based on the flawed quality of the video posted on the internet seems to me to show she stole the wallet. That with the letter of explanation from King Power about there change of outer garments, seating at separate tables, him going to the restroom, wallet being found in the trash, leads me to strongly SUSPECT that they did indeed steal the wallet. It is doubtful to me that King Power (a multimillion dollar operation) is trying to scam some tourist for the little amount of money they would receive after the police, prosecutor, translator, et al had taken their cut. The scam if anything is the police taking bribes to get the couple out of the situation. Everyone can say that the punishment does not fit the crime. In fact they received no punishment and were not brought to court as they paid their way out. If a similar crime had happened in a local store here in Los Angeles, the police would have been called and the store would be given the option of going forward with a complaint or letting the person go. Shoplifting cases are often prosecuted. The penalty is handed out by the court. If anything King Power is being "screwed" by the police and prosecutors office for not doing their job. Whether you like or do not like King Power and its monopoly in the airport, it is highly doubtful the corporate management is involved in a "scam". Like most stories of this type it is difficult to ever get all the facts. It is very possible that individual employees have been brought into a scam operation but the video in this case shows, at least to me, that there is a distinct possibility that the couple did indeed steal the wallet. I personally would have kept my mouth shut. Now there is a video out there for their friends, family, coworkers, and the whole world to see. Their credability is shot as far as I am concerned. Could the video have been doctored? Sure. But on face value along with the explanation from King Power in the letter, it sure makes me think twice about this whole incident. We all know that Thai politics, police and many of its institutions are corrupt and bribes are regularly given and accepted to get things done. They played into that game and got hit big time. In their shoes, I sure would not have wanted to go to court with that video in existance. In my mind they are lucky they are back in jolly old England (well, maybe they are not feeling so jolly about now).

As usual here at thai visa lots of people jump on the bandwagon to bash at someone or something without waiting for more facts to come out. This topic will die out and be replace by another event and everyone will get riled up about that. Never a dull moment here on Thai Visa.

[TheWalkingMan]

My girlfriend was listening to Thai radio in Bangkok and this KP thing has been happening to Thais too. She said that it had not come out before because people were afraid of those in power who control this. Now the stories with foreigners has broken, the Thais who have also been targeted are coming forward to tell their stories. Girlfriend tells me that they opened lines to the DJ and about six or seven people called in to tell their stories. This is rather ironic as Thais don't steal or shop lift; I mean you can generally leave motorbike helmets, etc, with worrying about people stealing them. In this respect Thailand is very good. Thus its quite evil to lock people up like this and only release them when they post large tea money. One lady was saying the law was wrong in that it could be abused in this way and she said all Thais should go and live in Europe where the law is fair! She said the law needed to be changed. This lady bought two cartons of cigarettes and another two were slipped into her bag. She said she is quite rich and does not need to steal; she tried to make a fuss by saying it was the shop assistant who did it and nothing to do with her!

If they continue this scam, foreign governments may advise their citizens not to visit Thailand on holiday, on the basis that you personal liberty is at risk (eg being thrown in jail and not being released if you don't pay up).

There is the balance... All people shopping at this place seem to be targets.

I doubt if senior mgmt is getting a cut from these incidents and I would bet the staff and security guards are getting a piece of the pie.

[jackdanielsesq]

Garbage - its the whole nub. Whether there was due process is another matter altogether.

BR>Jack

Whether they stole the wallet or not is irrelevant.

[TheWalkingMan]

...I personally would have kept my mouth shut...

And that is exactly what scammers depend on. People going home, licking their wounds and keeping their mouth shut.

And here are a couple of quotes relating to people who keep their mouths shut when confronted with misdeeds.

Martin Luther King, Jr.: "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it."

Edmund Burke: "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing."

[DaleBlue]

Am I missing something? Back in Post 170 there was a link to a story which included the first link to the King Power video and letter of explanation about the incident in the initial post. As I was reading thru the posts I was forming the ASSUMPTION that there appeared to be some scam involving King Power. I finally gave up reading the posts soon after #170 as it appeared that the bashing of King Power continued on without much objectivity in view of the video they produced. King Power obviously felt the need to respond to published reports given the bad press they are receiving over this matter. What stopped me in my tracks was the video which based on the flawed quality of the video posted on the internet seems to me to show she stole the wallet. That with the letter of explanation from King Power about there change of outer garments, seating at separate tables, him going to the restroom, wallet being found in the trash, leads me to strongly SUSPECT that they did indeed steal the wallet. It is doubtful to me that King Power (a multimillion dollar operation) is trying to scam some tourist for the little amount of money they would receive after the police, prosecutor, translator, et al had taken their cut. The scam if anything is the police taking bribes to get the couple out of the situation. Everyone can say that the punishment does not fit the crime. In fact they received no punishment and were not brought to court as they paid their way out. If a similar crime had happened in a local store here in Los Angeles, the police would have been called and the store would be given the option of going forward with a complaint or letting the person go. Shoplifting cases are often prosecuted. The penalty is handed out by the court. If anything King Power is being "screwed" by the police and prosecutors office for not doing their job. Whether you like or do not like King Power and its monopoly in the airport, it is highly doubtful the corporate management is involved in a "scam". Like most stories of this type it is difficult to ever get all the facts. It is very possible that individual employees have been brought into a scam operation but the video in this case shows, at least to me, that there is a distinct possibility that the couple did indeed steal the wallet. I personally would have kept my mouth shut. Now there is a video out there for their friends, family, coworkers, and the whole world to see. Their credability is shot as far as I am concerned. Could the video have been doctored? Sure. But on face value along with the explanation from King Power in the letter, it sure makes me think twice about this whole incident. We all know that Thai politics, police and many of its institutions are corrupt and bribes are regularly given and accepted to get things done. They played into that game and got hit big time. In their shoes, I sure would not have wanted to go to court with that video in existance. In my mind they are lucky they are back in jolly old England (well, maybe they are not feeling so jolly about now).

As usual here at thai visa lots of people jump on the bandwagon to bash at someone or something without waiting for more facts to come out. This topic will die out and be replace by another event and everyone will get riled up about that. Never a dull moment here on Thai Visa.

I quite agree with your view.

[harrycallahan]

KP Boss: Sankrit, how'd you go with that 'matter', you know, the British couple?

Sanskrit: Boss, I have good news for you!

KPB: I knew I could trust you Sanskrit, tell me what you have!

S: I found falung for you Boss, he perfect, same same!

KPB: Same same but different?

S: No Boss, no different, SAME SAME!

KPB: Wonderful. And he agree to do?

S: Yes he agree Boss.

KPB: He agree to check into airport and steal on camera for us? Are you sure he will do this?

S: Yes, no problem Boss, he stupid falung, you know they do anything for young lady!

KPB: OK, so we ready to film then, when can we do?

S: Ahhh... still one problem Boss.

KPB: Still problem? But we have falung...

S: Yes, but the other one, Thai lady, she hard to find.

KPB: What?? You find falung perfect but cannot find middle aged Asian lady, straight black hair, not too tall, not too short. This is hard!?

S: Yes well, you see, they all go diet, all too slim, we need lady with little weight.

KPB: Sankrit! In Bangkok you can't find middle aged lady for me! What about your sister? I see before she perfect.

S: No Boss, you see she get Ab-sizer from TV, she lose 6 kilos in 2 weeks, now too small!

....

[brahmburgers]

sorry to hear this from you but the thai people are one of most honest people on the planet on my experience. i cannot compare the LOS from south america, china, philippines,malaysia, indonesia, nigeria, south africa, etc. if i were to choose, i'd better choose thailand.

and you people that is slamming the country just because you have read something on the internet and just because your visas are hard to get, get out and live your life in another country!

blah blah blah, yes we know there are myriad nice Thais. Just as certainly, there are bad apples among every group of people you can point a finger at. Some of the folks at KP appear, by many accounts, to be bad apples. Upper management at KP, tourist police, regular cops, and the Sri Lankan could well be infected by the brown fungi that came from a few of the original bad apples.

[animatic]

The initial reports showed a couple rather incensed at their treatment.

Further reports showed this to be not an isolated incident at the airport.

I for one didn't say this was a K.P. organized scam.

ONLY that it is very likely a scam perpetrated using K.P. stores as target location.

Very possibly using one or two K.P. cashiers and confederates in the security dept.

And thus something K.P. as a business should want to stamp out totally.

Since Tourist Police are right in the airport,

why are they avoided and this suddenly goes to an external police officers???

Why would ANYONE in the security be give ANY MONEY? As Ingram was told.

My point is not bashing K.P,. or the truth of the theft or not,

even as I didn't see enough evidence, and the prosecutor agreeed,

but that this apears as

a scam perpetrated via collusion of one casheer or more, security police,

a neighboring police station, likely this Sri Lankan and possibly prosecutor's office personel.

Even if they stole the wallet ,which is not confirmed IMO, this is still reflecting badly on

K.P.'s security and the ability to feel safe buying in their shops.

The other videos are red heerings to cloud the issue.

Show a real theft to make it look like a possible theft is more real.

Sorry I don't buy that whole cloth.

Edited July 6, 2009 by animatic

[Serpico]

Bangkok Post Letter.

"Many duty-free scams

All those who travel a lot, please be very, very careful. An Indian was detained in Bangkok for stealing a packet of cigarettes from a duty-free shop at Bangkok's international airport.

He had paid for chocolates and a carton of cigarettes. The cashier put an extra packet of cigarettes into his bag and he thought it was a free pack.

He was arrested for shoplifting and the police extorted 30,000 baht from him for his release.

He spent two nights in jail and paid 500 baht for an air-conditioned cell, 200-300 baht for each visitor, and 11,000 baht for his final release. The police shared the money in front of his eyes.

On top of that, he was charged in court and fined 2,000 baht by the magistrate and handcuffed and escorted to his plane. His passport was stamped ''Thief''.

While there, his relatives requested help from the Indian embassy and was told they were helpless as many Asians are similarly victimised daily and letters and phone calls to the Thai authorities are ignored.

He shared a cell with a Singaporean the first night who paid 60,000 baht for his release. The second night it was a Malaysian national who paid 70,000 baht.

Mind you this was not in a shanty shop in downtown Bangkok but in a duty free shop at the Bangkok Int'l Airport.

BE WARNED.

The above 100% correct information because Mr.Rajan Khera's customer from India faced exactly the same scenario mentioned above when he was in transit at Bangkok Int'l Airport coming to Taipei."

Edited July 6, 2009 by Maestro

[Aardvark]

So it's not just Westerners who are targeted, but all visitors to the Kingdom. Very nice !

[stumonster]

The procedure is that KP have evidence that they did the crime. At the time of the incident there was insufficient evidence (or should we say KP security were not clever enough to make a case).

I would say that if the matter had gone to court they would have been convicted by the Thai courts - only the payments ensured the case was dropped.

so far what KP has produced has shown themselves in a favourable light - to be expected . I don't think it is a scam to be prosecuting people for shoplifting , but if there is also a forced shoplifting scam happening then KP management should be able to determine that from security video reviews - even if security is in on it they can not be wiping selected portions of video without incriminating themselves enough to be guilty here.

but the next step I see KP being forced to do is to instruct their managers not to accept restitution being paid by the criminal for a shoplifting charge to be rescinded - though this might help stop any forced shoplifting scam it will mean that there will be quite a few westerners waiting for court dates.

I wonder what the figures are for shoplifting arrests in Singapore and Hong Kong ? it might give a rough clue as to how prevalent this crime is.

[Hawk]

but the thai people are one of most honest people on the planet on my experience. i cannot compare the LOS from south america, china, philippines,malaysia, indonesia, nigeria, south africa, etc. if i were to choose, i'd better choose thailand.

What a remarkable statement to make? So, how come the Thai jails are completely overcrowded? Are they full of honest Thai people? Or are they full of dishonest foreigners who steal from KP shops and don't have the money to pay the bribe?

In Thailand, if the item isn't bolted to the wall or floor some honest Thai person will steal it or shall we say relieve you of the responsibility of owning it any longer.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Hawk

[Hawk]

Forget about KP faking the video and sort, these couples seems guilty on my opinion; i also have cctv in my shop where some shots/angle on the cameras making me look younger and more handsome anyway, big companies like KP do not make these things up unless you are a celebrity (i suppose). all i can say is that they did it and some police wants to make money out of it, like typical traffic police in thailand (sorry, BIB).

Look at the video closely, this is not the same couple, the guy is a stand in and the woman is the actor. Neither ever look up or around to see if they are being watched, surely they can see the camera looking straight at them. The woman looks younger, walks like someone in her 20's not like a person in their 40's, the hair is longer and is being used to cover her face and the body is slimmer, the breasts appear smaller than Xi's are. Remember, she never looks around and neither does he, if he was meant to be the lookout, then he just isn't doing the job. Also, can anyone see them communicating, like him saying "go ahead, nobodies watching"? England is a land full of cctv's so if the Ingrams had stolen the bag I would have expected them to look up as well as around.

Acting is like prostitution, the people involved get paid for doing it, some are good and some are not very good like the stand in for Mr.Ingram.

[ZZZ]

but the thai people are one of most honest people on the planet on my experience. i cannot compare the LOS from south america, china, philippines,malaysia, indonesia, nigeria, south africa, etc. if i were to choose, i'd better choose thailand.

What a remarkable statement to make? So, how come the Thai jails are completely overcrowded? Are they full of honest Thai people? Or are they full of dishonest foreigners who steal from KP shops and don't have the money to pay the bribe?

In Thailand, if the item isn't bolted to the wall or floor some honest Thai person will steal it or shall we say relieve you of the responsibility of owning it any longer.

I find most people in Thailand to be very honest but even if 99% are very honest you still have 700,000 dishonest and many of these are people in power as proven with court cases against many influential persons.

To fill prisons is no problem, the case described in this thread is just one way of putting people in prison. There are plenty of people who can not afford to, or refuse to, pay their way out of a scam.

[Trouble]

...I personally would have kept my mouth shut...

And that is exactly what scammers depend on. People going home, licking their wounds and keeping their mouth shut.

And here are a couple of quotes relating to people who keep their mouths shut when confronted with misdeeds.

Martin Luther King, Jr.: "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it."

Edmund Burke: "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing."

I would agree with your statement IF one had not done the crime. I think more people should stand up and fight when wrongly accused. I suppose only the man and the woman know the truth of the matter. The video is pretty damning in my opinion. I would like to see the couple interviewed and confronted with the video and have them explain what was going on. My point was that given the explanation of King Power and the video itself, I would not want my friends back home to see the video or letter because on the surface it certainly looks to me like she took the wallet.

IF there is indeed a scam going on wherein clerks and security personnel, police and prosecutors are involved, then King Power should request a police investigation. That maybe a separate matter from this incident. Certainly, given the size of its operation, a request would certainly be considered seriously. They could even try a sting operation themselves and maybe reveal the real culprits. Believe it or not there are honest politicians, police, soldiers and other officials in Thailand. Not everyone is on the take although it seems like it at times. I know one Thai army general, now retired, who refused bribes on signing off on large contracts. He has raised a wonderful family and lives modestly on his pension. There are, believe it or not, people with honesty and ethics in Thailand. Throughout this thread there seems to be more bashing than discussion of the incident and factual information. Some posters have even reported it to their local press for publication but there is no independent investigation by the newspapers as to the facts presented by both sides. Where is the investigative reporting? It does not exist. 99% of subsequent reporting is only repeating the original story. We must be thankful that King Power provided the video and letter otherwise a good number of posters here had already convicted King Power of a scam. I am not defending King Power and no I don't own stock in the company. It is just that too many were too quick to jump on King Power a part of this scam. King Power probably has skeletons in its closet but I don't think this is one of them. We will probably never know the truth in the matter because as I said in my earlier post something new will take its place in the forefront and this will just disappear. It will indeed be interesting to see how far the couple takes this. They might win a case against those taking bribe money and loose in a court for the theft. I doubt they will return to Thailand to see this case through. It would be a big risk.

[BigBikeBKK]

The biggest source of money for Thailand is tourism.

Ahem, beg your pardon, tourism accounts for a mere 6-7% of GDP in Thailand...