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British Couple Fights Bangkok Airport Extortionists


george

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Good news, finally:

"Mr Sohpon said he had ordered the AoT to arrange its officials to take care of foreign tourists in case they are engaged in a legal dispute and required to be handed over to police investigators. During this process, the tourists must be escorted by airport officials and embassies of their countries must be informed. This is to prevent members of the scam gangs intervening and offering help.

He said all embassies will be informed that if their citizens encounter this problem they should file a complaint with the Transport Ministry immediately.

The minister said the British couple's claim will also be investigated and legal action will be taken against those found to have been involved in the scam."

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...t-airport-scams

postlogo.jpg

-- Bangkok Post 22 July 2009

LaoPo

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A friend sent me this:

I've had my own headache with Thailand: My flight on day 30 was scheduled to leave at 11:40PM. The quota-hungry petty bureaucrats said, "You'll still be in our airspace after 12AM! You have to pay the fine for overstaying!" They held me for more than half an hour, and I barely made it to the gate to get on the flight.

I told them at the gate (politely, to avoid further trouble) that I wouldn't be going back to their country ever again for that reason. If the pricks had not been scrounging for every foreign dollar they could extort for government coffers, I might have gone back several times. The Thais were, on average, the nicest people I've met in any country I've been to.

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A friend sent me this:

I've had my own headache with Thailand: My flight on day 30 was scheduled to leave at 11:40PM. The quota-hungry petty bureaucrats said, "You'll still be in our airspace after 12AM! You have to pay the fine for overstaying!" They held me for more than half an hour, and I barely made it to the gate to get on the flight.

I told them at the gate (politely, to avoid further trouble) that I wouldn't be going back to their country ever again for that reason. If the pricks had not been scrounging for every foreign dollar they could extort for government coffers, I might have gone back several times. The Thais were, on average, the nicest people I've met in any country I've been to.

Well, I believe that there are a lot of scams, but this one sounds somewhat dubious to say the least. Let's be honest they have enough difficulty counting the days, so counting minutes seems way too far fetched. :)

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A friend sent me this:

I've had my own headache with Thailand: My flight on day 30 was scheduled to leave at 11:40PM. The quota-hungry petty bureaucrats said, "You'll still be in our airspace after 12AM! You have to pay the fine for overstaying!" They held me for more than half an hour, and I barely made it to the gate to get on the flight.

I told them at the gate (politely, to avoid further trouble) that I wouldn't be going back to their country ever again for that reason. If the pricks had not been scrounging for every foreign dollar they could extort for government coffers, I might have gone back several times. The Thais were, on average, the nicest people I've met in any country I've been to.

if what's written above is true, then that's truly incredible. I hope that ridiculous scam is snuffed out a.s.a.p.

As for the PM calling the two big shots on the carpet to get to the bottom of alleged airport extortions:

I recall reading that both of them, the Transport Minister and the head of AOT initially had excuses on hand, saying they weren't responsible - for one soggy reason or another. (maybe that's changed in the past hours, as it sounds as though the Transport Minister is doing something tangible to try and fix the mess at the airport) Message to Abhisit (who I like, BTW): Here's an opportunity for you to show how strong of a leader you can be. Tell each of those big shots that you won't accept any soggy excuses for why they can't do anything to ameliorate the situation. Make it very clear that because they're the head honchos in their departments, that they're the one responsible for bad things that happen on their watch. Thailand needs a great big dose of learning the importance of taking responsibility. ....and then acting dynamically to do the right thing, to take corrective action. Excuses are ok for toddlers, but grownups aren't supposed to slough responsibility.

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Seems pretty simple really. I'd say in light of the statement King Power made public the two Brits could sue them for libel/defamation.

simple would be trying that

I would expect that the prosecutor would suddenly find more than sufficient evidence and witnesses to proceed with the original charges.

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Well, I believe that there are a lot of scams, but this one sounds somewhat dubious to say the least. Let's be honest they have enough difficulty counting the days, so counting minutes seems way too far fetched. :)

Actually, a fifteen day visa is really 14 days, and a 30 day visa gives you 29 days, and so on. The Imm people count the day of getting the visa as the first day, so if you get a visa stamp at 11:53 pm, those next 7 minutes constitute your first day of the so-called 30 day visa. Just another straw of annoyance - yet how many straws does it take to break the camel's back?

Edited by brahmburgers
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Well, I believe that there are a lot of scams, but this one sounds somewhat dubious to say the least. Let's be honest they have enough difficulty counting the days, so counting minutes seems way too far fetched. :)

Actually, a fifteen day visa is really 14 days, and a 30 day visa gives you 29 days, and so on. The Imm people count the day of getting the visa as the first day, so if you get a visa stamp at 11:53 pm, those next 7 minutes constitute your first day of the so-called 30 day visa. Just another straw of annoyance - yet how many straws does it take to break the camel's back?

Looking at the tourist numbers, think the back has already been broken.

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Seems like the government response is reasonable.

God help any thieves who get caught now, If there's something worse than having to pay 7,000 pounds to buy your way out, it would be a Thai court case followed by prison.

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A friend sent me this:

I've had my own headache with Thailand: My flight on day 30 was scheduled to leave at 11:40PM. The quota-hungry petty bureaucrats said, "You'll still be in our airspace after 12AM! You have to pay the fine for overstaying!" They held me for more than half an hour, and I barely made it to the gate to get on the flight.

I told them at the gate (politely, to avoid further trouble) that I wouldn't be going back to their country ever again for that reason. If the pricks had not been scrounging for every foreign dollar they could extort for government coffers, I might have gone back several times. The Thais were, on average, the nicest people I've met in any country I've been to.

Sorry. Don't believe it. For a start there is no charge for the first day.

Edited by CRUNCHER
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Tourists warned of Thailand airport scam

By Jonathan Head

BBC News, Bangkok

Bangkok's showcase new international airport is no stranger to controversy.

Built between 2002 and 2006, under the governments of then-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, the opening date was repeatedly delayed.

It has been dogged by allegations of corruption, as well as criticism of the design and poor quality of construction.

Then, at the end of last year, the airport was shut down for a week after being occupied by anti-government protesters.

Now new allegations have been made that a number of passengers are being detained every month in the duty free area on suspicion of shoplifting, and then held by the police until they pay large sums of money to buy their freedom.

That is what happened to Stephen Ingram and Xi Lin, two IT experts from Cambridge, as they were about to board their flight to London on the night of 25 April this year.

They had been browsing in the duty free shop at the airport, and were later approached by security guards, who twice asked to search their bags.

Mr Ingram and Ms Xi were told they had to pay £8,000

They were told a wallet had gone missing, and that Ms Lin had been seen on a security camera taking it out of the shop.

The company that owns the duty free shop, King Power, has since put the CCTV video on its website, which does appear to show her putting something in her bag. However the security guards found no wallet on either of them.

Despite that, they were both taken from the departure gate, back through immigration, and held in an airport police office. That is when their ordeal started to become frightening.

Interpreter

"We were questioned in separate rooms," Mr Ingram said. "We felt really intimidated. They went through our bags and demanded that we tell them where the wallet was."

The two were then put in what Mr Ingram describes as a "hot, humid, smelly cell with graffiti and blood on the walls".

Mr Ingram managed to phone a Foreign Office helpline he found in a travel guide, and was told someone in the Bangkok embassy would try to help them.

The next morning the two were given an interpreter, a Sri Lankan national called Tony, who works part-time for the police.

They were taken by Tony to meet the local police commander - but, says Mr Ingram, for three hours all they discussed was how much money they would have to pay to get out.

Mr Ingram and Ms Xi were taken to meet the local police commander

They were told the charge was very serious. If they did not pay, they would be transferred to the infamous Bangkok Hilton prison, and would have to wait two months for their case to be processed.

Mr Ingram says they wanted £8,000 ( about $13,000) - for that the police would try to get him back to the UK in time for his mother's funeral on 28 April.

But he could not arrange to get that much money transferred in time.

'Zig-zag' scheme

Tony then took Ms Lin to an ATM machine and told her to withdraw as much as she could from her own account - £600. He then withdrew the equivalent of £3,400 from his own account.

According to Mr Ingram this was then handed over to the police, and they were both forced to sign a number of papers.

Later they were allowed to move to a squalid hotel within the airport perimeter, but their passports were held and they were warned not to leave or try to contact a lawyer or their embassy.

"I will be watching you," Tony told them, adding that they would have to stay there until the £8,000 was transferred into Tony's account.

On the Monday they managed to sneak out and get a taxi to Bangkok, and met an official at the British Embassy.

She gave the name of a Thai lawyer, and, says Mr Ingram, told them they were being subjected to a classic Thai scam called the "zig-zag".

Their lawyer urged them to expose Tony - but also warned them that if they fought the case it could take months, and they risked a long prison sentence.

After five days the money was transferred to Tony's account, and they were allowed to leave.

Mr Ingram had missed his mother's funeral, but at least they were given a court document stating that there was insufficient evidence against them, and no charge.

"It was a harrowing, stressful experience," he said.

The couple say they now want to take legal action to recover their money.

'Typical' scam

The BBC has spoken to Tony and the regional police commander, Colonel Teeradej Phanuphan.

They both say Tony was merely helping the couple with translation, and raising bail to keep them out of prison.

Tony says about half the £8,000 was for bail, while the rest were "fees" for the bail, for his work, and for a lawyer he says he consulted on their behalf.

In theory, he says, they could try to get the bail portion refunded.

Colonel Teeradej says he will investigate any possible irregularities in their treatment. But he said any arrangement between the couple and Tony was a private affair, which did not involve the police.

Letters of complaint to the papers here in Thailand make it clear that passengers are regularly detained at the airport for alleged shoplifting, and then made to pay middlemen to win their freedom.

The Danish Embassy says one of its nationals was recently subjected to a very similar scam, and earlier this month an Irish scientist managed to flee Thailand with her husband and one year-old son after being arrested at the airport and accused of stealing an eyeliner worth around £17.

Tony told the BBC that so far this year he has "helped" about 150 foreigners in trouble with the police. He says sometimes he does it for no charge.

The British Embassy has also warned passengers at Bangkok Airport to take care not to move items around in the duty free shopping area before paying for them, as this could result in arrest and imprisonment.

***************************************************************************

This report from the BBC News site is still published in the Asia-Pacific section!! .

I hope they will leave this report for longtime. This situation shows clearly an unfair Thai law that need to be update. Nonetheless how deep is the corruption mentality of thai officials (I have to say in general..but I'm quite sure that more than the 90% of the officials/police thai are corrupted ass.o.es

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May I ask if you are a Thai law expert without causing offence? I ask because you say held for months. The Ozzie beermat girl wasn't held for months was she?

Call it my need to know smile.gif .

This case was fast forwarded because of the international uproar it caused. If her story had never been reported, she'd probably still be stuck in Thailand awaiting a court hearing.

Cheers 'uncle', but you say 'probably'. I would like to know what happens if you just say no to these creatures and demand proper legal process while contacting your embassy, who must (should?) act. Plus demanding they contact the press to get immediate coverage. Big news this stuff now, internationally. Thai extortionists threatening tourists. There's such a thing as going too far and these 'protecters and servers' have done that IMO.

Your embassy is going to tell you to get f***ed, because they cant get involved anyway for any reason even if there is corruption which is pretty much what they did with the couple. There is NO proper legal process by western standards in Thailand, so the idea here is to listen to the people who have lived here a long time and know the score and stay out of trouble. There is a sucker born every minute.....dont be one of them. I personally don't think that I need to avoid KP to stay out of any scam that may or may not be happening, and neither should you or especially any tourist walking the straight. Don't be scared... no one is going to scam you in Thailand unless you do something like that couple did. There were no actors...that was them and they did what they did and it was caught on video. They probably initiated the payoff but then it backfired to the tune of 8 large bills. After they got the letter of innocence they could say what they want. Maybe she was just sticking her hand in her purse because she likes the way it feels, it was still a poor decision and they payed for it. It is not going too far it is just going the way it goes in Thailand and now its out and we have a circus on our hands.

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I'd like to pose a question to those who may have knowledge regarding prosecuting shoplifters (any country):

If the accused did not have the 'stolen' item on them when they were searched and the cctv footage doesn't show them exiting the shop then where is the evidence?

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Good news, finally:

"Mr Sohpon said he had ordered the AoT to arrange its officials to take care of foreign tourists in case they are engaged in a legal dispute and required to be handed over to police investigators. During this process, the tourists must be escorted by airport officials and embassies of their countries must be informed. This is to prevent members of the scam gangs intervening and offering help.

He said all embassies will be informed that if their citizens encounter this problem they should file a complaint with the Transport Ministry immediately.

The minister said the British couple's claim will also be investigated and legal action will be taken against those found to have been involved in the scam."

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...t-airport-scams

postlogo.jpg

-- Bangkok Post 22 July 2009

LaoPo

It's rather rare we agree on most anything.

This is one case we do.

The scammers have to be weeded out but quick.

And let it be known regualr spot check ringers will go in periodically

to check by getting nabbed for a 'pre-authorized theft'.

And the rules on AFTER immigration check in reinforced.

Technically after passing immigration and awaiting a plane you are NOT IN THAILAND.

How can they be hustled out and taken to a LOCAL police station,

when they were no longer in Thailand???

When there is an official AIRPORT Police Office.

Or is King Power Store space now considered THAILAND,

even if it is in an International Travel Space.

Not legally, I very much doubt.

Edited by animatic
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Your embassy is going to tell you to get f***ed, because they cant get involved anyway for any reason even if there is corruption which is pretty much what they did with the couple. There is NO proper legal process by western standards in Thailand, so the idea here is to listen to the people who have lived here a long time and know the score and stay out of trouble. There is a sucker born every minute.....dont be one of them. I personally don't think that I need to avoid KP to stay out of any scam that may or may not be happening, and neither should you or especially any tourist walking the straight. Don't be scared... no one is going to scam you in Thailand unless you do something like that couple did. There were no actors...that was them and they did what they did and it was caught on video. They probably initiated the payoff but then it backfired to the tune of 8 large bills. After they got the letter of innocence they could say what they want. Maybe she was just sticking her hand in her purse because she likes the way it feels, it was still a poor decision and they payed for it. It is not going too far it is just going the way it goes in Thailand and now its out and we have a circus on our hands.

:)

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Well I have watch the unbelievably bad camera footage. The average garage in the UK has cameras that can read a number plate at 50 yards and this state of the art airport has a camera worse than the one I have in this cheap laptop??? I do not know why they chose to use such bad cameras but it does make me feel that there is no reliable evidence on the film.

The most strange part is that in most of the stories that KP are telling the dilligant staff knew their stock by name and noticed that there was one less (insert item) than there should be. Are KP really doing that badly that the staff know the stock level of each eyeliner? I doubt that. The evidence is being managed. That is not to say that I believe the people to be innocent, just that I believe that KP are definately lying.

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Well I have watch the unbelievably bad camera footage. The average garage in the UK has cameras that can read a number plate at 50 yards and this state of the art airport has a camera worse than the one I have in this cheap laptop??? I do not know why they chose to use such bad cameras but it does make me feel that there is no reliable evidence on the film.

The most strange part is that in most of the stories that KP are telling the dilligant staff knew their stock by name and noticed that there was one less (insert item) than there should be. Are KP really doing that badly that the staff know the stock level of each eyeliner? I doubt that. The evidence is being managed. That is not to say that I believe the people to be innocent, just that I believe that KP are definately lying.

What are you suggesting here? :D

Would you have us believe that people are innocent until proven guilty? That's just not the way it works around here! ThaiVisa has already reviewed the evidence and as most of the forums membership are legal experts, they have already been convicted. This is an open and shut case! :D:)

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The story of how King Power got the duty free concession years ago by ripping off their partner Aer Lingus, at the time the leader in Duty Free shops worldwide, is a pointer to just how dodgy they are.

Love to know more about this. Can you oblige, Changian?

I do know about Newin's involvement in KP, and seriously wonder if the crackdown on KP's illegal activities at Swampy (encroaching on the public areas, blocking fire escapes, building restaurants without permission, etc., etc.) that the previous government was trying to do may have been influential in Newin's defection to the Democrat coalition. Seems strange that after being ordered out of Swampy for breaking just about every rule in the book, Newin switches sides and KP are allowed to stay! Love to hear Abhisit's explanation as to why KP were let off the hook by his government.

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Well I have watch the unbelievably bad camera footage. The average garage in the UK has cameras that can read a number plate at 50 yards and this state of the art airport has a camera worse than the one I have in this cheap laptop??? I do not know why they chose to use such bad cameras but it does make me feel that there is no reliable evidence on the film.

The most strange part is that in most of the stories that KP are telling the dilligant staff knew their stock by name and noticed that there was one less (insert item) than there should be. Are KP really doing that badly that the staff know the stock level of each eyeliner? I doubt that. The evidence is being managed. That is not to say that I believe the people to be innocent, just that I believe that KP are definately lying.

So true, after all this is a shop, and items are on display to be purchased by their customers! The only way that a shop assistant would instantly know if something was "missing" would be if there was a dedicated (in this case) Louis Viton girl manning the display, which was not the case. When I read KP's statement, the whole thing was just so obviously full of inconsistencies -e.g. having spotted the 2 suspects they just allow one to wander off! - that I came to the conclusion that it was little more than a face-saving exercise. Probably written by a hack who had no idea of what really happened.

Edited by catmac
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from BBC report:

"Colonel Teeradej says he will investigate any possible irregularities in their treatment. But he said any arrangement between the couple and Tony was a private affair, which did not involve the police."

It would seem, even in land of mai pen rai, where foisting responsibility is endemic, that the police would step in where there's a clear case of tourists being extorted, mistreated, coerced and/or detained illegally.

For a top cop to surmise "any arrangement between the couple and Tony was a private affair, which did not involve the police," is seriously off the mark, and the epitome of sloughing responsibility.

They should change their motto (which they co-opted from farang police)

from "Serve and Protect" to "Be Lazy, Be Evasive, and Avoid Responsibility."

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There are a couple of items of evidence which would strengthen King Power's position:

- independent airport surveillance video showing the wallet being dumped in the rubbish bin by the accused

- fingerprints of Mr. Ingram on the recovered wallet as it was supposedly he who dumped it

Firstly, the KP video is not conclusive and could have been fabricated. It is considerable more difficult to fabricate a surveillance video of a public area and such video is not the property of KP. It is possible that fixed cameras do not show the wallet being dumped which could legitimately explain why there is no footage available. I have the impression that the arresting officers observed the dumping of the wallet. If this is the case then why did they not video the incident themselves. Easy enough.

Secondly, Mr. Ingram does not handle the wallet in KP, only the woman does according to the KP video. If he did indeed dump the wallet in the rubbish then his fingerprints should be on it which would be conclusive evidence of guilt. No mention of this from KP or the police. As the couple were held in detention for several days in a legitimate crime the police would check for the accused fingerprints as basic procedure in preparation for court evidence, unless, of course, it was a scam from the outset and there were no fingerprints to begin with.

The couple's payment to avoid court can not be regarded as indicating innocence or guilt. Motivation to avoid 2 months pre-trial detention and the uncertain trial outcome is equally apparent if guilty or innocent.

IMHO, King Power's rebuttal statement has too many gaps to be credible. What evidence has been presented to support the claim they were sitting apart at the restaurant or that they had changed clothes ? An airport brimming with surveillance cameras and not a single image put forward as evidence ? Had the crime taken place as described and the police done their jobs professionally there would be conclusive independent evidence to back up KP's version of events. That there is not (surely it would have been made public if there was) tends to give weight to the claims of the British couple.

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There are a couple of items of evidence which would strengthen King Power's position:

- independent airport surveillance video showing the wallet being dumped in the rubbish bin by the accused

- fingerprints of Mr. Ingram on the recovered wallet as it was supposedly he who dumped it

Firstly, the KP video is not conclusive and could have been fabricated. It is considerable more difficult to fabricate a surveillance video of a public area and such video is not the property of KP. It is possible that fixed cameras do not show the wallet being dumped which could legitimately explain why there is no footage available. I have the impression that the arresting officers observed the dumping of the wallet. If this is the case then why did they not video the incident themselves. Easy enough.

Secondly, Mr. Ingram does not handle the wallet in KP, only the woman does according to the KP video. If he did indeed dump the wallet in the rubbish then his fingerprints should be on it which would be conclusive evidence of guilt. No mention of this from KP or the police. As the couple were held in detention for several days in a legitimate crime the police would check for the accused fingerprints as basic procedure in preparation for court evidence, unless, of course, it was a scam from the outset and there were no fingerprints to begin with.

The couple's payment to avoid court can not be regarded as indicating innocence or guilt. Motivation to avoid 2 months pre-trial detention and the uncertain trial outcome is equally apparent if guilty or innocent.

IMHO, King Power's rebuttal statement has too many gaps to be credible. What evidence has been presented to support the claim they were sitting apart at the restaurant or that they had changed clothes ? An airport brimming with surveillance cameras and not a single image put forward as evidence ? Had the crime taken place as described and the police done their jobs professionally there would be conclusive independent evidence to back up KP's version of events. That there is not (surely it would have been made public if there was) tends to give weight to the claims of the British couple.

Seems well put and very logical but that will not assuage the hang them high, deport them, or give them a long term in prison, they must be guilty because the police say so, brigade, remember the woman in prison in Laos, Simon at the airport, it seems to me that there are a number of posters here that appear to get their rocks off at other peoples expense, and whose belief in life seems to be, there's no smoke without fire.

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There are a couple of items of evidence which would strengthen King Power's position:

- independent airport surveillance video showing the wallet being dumped in the rubbish bin by the accused

- fingerprints of Mr. Ingram on the recovered wallet as it was supposedly he who dumped it

Firstly, the KP video is not conclusive and could have been fabricated. ......

That would fall under the "Assuming Authorities Do The Right Thing" Dept.

As we know, neither Thai investigators nor Airport security people are cognizant nor capable of doing such things as fingerprinting lifting, et. al. If in doubt, look at the botched investigation of the two young women who died mysteriously at Ko Pee Pee in May.

By all indications, KP (workers and/or management) were in on the shake-down, as they were in on the dozens that took place earlier, and the shake downs that will ensue. If it's easy money, there will be people involved. No matter that other peoples' lives are shaken up, holidays destroyed, and roughly $10,000 is siphoned from each victim's bank account in to the account of a fly-by-night Sri Lankan named Tony.

Thailand's tourist industry deserves whatever black eyes it gets from these extortions.

Edited by brahmburgers
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I have been wondering where exactly was the toilet, was it in the departure lounge or was it near the restaurant Mr.Ingram was supposed to have run from upon seeing the security approach Xi Lin?

Also, in the supposed cctv video, you can clearly see neither were carrying any bags large enough to contain a change of clothes. And nobody can leave any bags or suitcases lying about because security will remove them very quickly. So where did the supposed change of clothes actually come from?

Why, if she "stole" the wallet and went her own way, then how did Mr.Ingram happen to have the said wallet when they keep away from each other? Or did the security just make a story that they supposedly found the wallet in the bin, this sounds right as they are all in the pay of KP.

The airport has cameras covering just about everywhere, so why no pictures of them walking about? Also, why was the video cut before she left the shop or went to the cashier? And what did Mr.Ingram do after they cut the video? Did he remain in the shop, did he leave, where did he go?

People at King Power and the security are hiding the real truth, there is evidence here that is being falsified and neglected.

I know that the police will plant evidence, years ago the Malaysia hotel( Tungmahamek) was famous for this, the police would enter a room and pretend to start searching for drugs, within minutes they would find some ganja(from cops pocket) and then the extortion game would begin.

There is no such thing as justice in Thailand, the person with the most power and/or money always wins. So, if you are one of the little people or a foreign cash cow you are guaranteed to lose.

Edited by Hawk
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