Bumrungrad Hospital

[wonderer]

Any first-hand experience of this hospital? Is it good so far?

[Shola]

Any first-hand experience of this hospital? Is it good so far?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, all very plush looking and friendly. The docs I've seen there all speak good English. Efficient system when queing/waiting for meds.

Appointments usually on time, if no appointment, usually don't have to wait too long.

And the best thing is it has a Starbucks!

[Ajarn]

Top notch facilities, sometimes even Top Notch Doc's, but my experience with 2 docs there was less than top notch, even though the price was very high.

As always, Buyer Beware. There are good and bad Doc's in ALL kinds of med facilities here, in my experience. Be very assertive and proactive with any medical care providers in Thailand (or, for that matter, anywhere).

[wonderer]

Thanks Shola..Efficiency aside, are the doctors any good? (i know they are all highly certified and qualified, but chances of botched surgeries?). Husband is going for reconstructive plastic surgery, and it's pretty high-risk, so wanna check around first. What are the reputable yet affordable (of course it has to be, got a budget) hospitals?

[Shola]

Forgot to mention, And this goes for ANY Thai hospital/Doctor,

make sure you ask exactly what he/she's perscribed you, as they will usually not tell you at all, but if they do they will undoubtedly fail to mention a few other needless things they've put on there, like a ton of Paracetamol or some basic cream you didn't know you were getting, just to crank the price up when you get to the pharmacy counter.

Some of these Doc's DO get a cut off of how much medicine they sell.

So be warned!

Well I have to say I've never heard of anything being 'botched' at Bumrungrad, but then I don't spose I would if it did happen!

You can choose what doc you want to do the surgery and you can read about thier qualifications on the Bumrungrad website HERE So I'd check that out first.

(I always go for the docs with a degree from Europe or the U.S)

Edited February 18, 2005 by Shola

[taxexile]

As always, Buyer Beware. There are good and bad Doc's in ALL kinds of med facilities here, in my experience. Be very assertive and proactive with any medical care providers in Thailand (or, for that matter, anywhere).

very good advice.

the hospital and facilities are first rate.

[wonderer]

I've actually gone to the website before I posted here As with all websites, they will definitely say quality things about themselves (So I'm checking around for affirmation to see if their credentials are what they made it out to be).

So Ajarn, looks like I should be a little sceptical about advising my husband to go there (since you had some bad experience. By the way, who are the 2 docs? And recommended docs? heard of Dr Amee if I'm not wrong he's the head of department).

I'm sorry if I sound like I have way tooo many questions, but because I'm not staying in Thailand at this time. It's really a difficult decision for my family on choosing good surgeons and cost involved as well. Another place is Yanhee I heard.

[Ajarn]

I had a botched procedure there. A procedure that costs 20,000 baht per time...

In my case, it was a procedure that injected Botox at certain nerve points, intended to help relieve the spacticisity in my arm, hand and fingers (stroke-related paralysis). The woman doctor simply didn't know what she was doing, and was unable to properly use the electronic injection machine designed to show her the correct injection points.... 20,000 baht wasted, along with the expenses for travel from Chiang Mai, and the overnight hospital costs...

Yes, they can and have botched procedures there. But how to protect yourself? Other than my previous advice, I don't know... I have LOTS of doc experience here, but I still have problems.

And Plastic Surgery here is very spotty. There have been recent horror stories published, including deaths.

For this kind of surgery, I would rely more on patient recommendations. If the doc won't give you any names to contact, or offer any other means to boost your confidence in them, I'd say go somewhere else.

Added after I saw the previous post...

Sorry, I don't remember the names. But neither were plastic surgeons. The other was a dentist with a muscle spasm in his working hand. After 5 minutes of injections and slipping drills, I drooled out, "I'm outa here", and fled the scene...

Edited February 18, 2005 by Ajarn

[daxbr]

Top notch facilities, sometimes even Top Notch Doc's, but my experience with 2 docs there was less than top notch, even though the price was very high.

As always, Buyer Beware. There are good and bad Doc's in ALL kinds of med facilities here, in my experience. Be very assertive and proactive with any medical care providers in Thailand (or, for that matter, anywhere).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am of the same opinion. Some doctors are very good but some ... well... not so.

Few years ago, they totally misdiagnosed life threatening condition. Thankfully, I got second opinion and had surgery few hours later at another hospital.

Another time, they did recommend surgery that was not necessary.

My advice is: Do your homework about doctors you see and watch your credit cards. They love those.

[lopburi3]

I am another 'former' user of Bumrungrad.

From reports Saint Louis is good for a lower priced alternative and in the high level I would use BNH (with a long 'real' history of attracting the best doctors). Bangkok Hospital Group should also be considered as well as others. For good doctors some of the government runs hospitals have the best and many practice part time at private hospitals so if you get a recommendation of a good doctor at one of them perhaps you can find him at a more attractive location with more time to treat you.

The doctor is all important for a surgical procedure.

The current scandal is an operation performed to do eyes where the doctor did her nose - and thinks he is right to have done so as she did not object during operation (under local) and her nose did not look right to him. He 'might' get a yellow card and not be able to work for a few months but nobody dead so not serious.

[dvk1951]

A few years ago my wife and I were involved in an automobile accident between Rayong and Pattaya..she was taken to B'grad hosp. in Rayong and the Dr's there had "accidently" taken the lens out of her eye and said "sorry, we thought it was a piece of glass"...she was stitched up like an American football and after 12 hours was moved to Pattaya Bangkok Hosp in Pattaya where she under went three surgeries in 31 hours just to correct mistakes made by the first hospital including removal of lots of glass left in, facial reconstruction, etc...sorry, I truly do not have any good experiences with Bmgrad...but PBkk was excellent and the Drs are quallified surgeons to handle emergencies..the plastic surg. and eye Dr. are top notch who constantly keep up to date on meds and illnesses.

Don't know it the experience would have been the same at the mother hospital in Bkk but would think twice about it before using B'grad for elective procedures. Definitly do you homework before deciding.

[Shola]

I had a botched procedure there. A procedure that costs 20,000 baht per time...

In my case, it was a procedure that injected Botox at certain nerve points, intended to help relieve the spacticisity in my arm, hand and fingers (stroke-related paralysis). The woman doctor simply didn't know what she was doing, and was unable to properly use the electronic injection machine designed to show her the correct injection points.... 20,000 baht wasted, along with the expenses for travel from Chiang Mai, and the overnight hospital costs...

Yes, they can and have botched procedures there. But how to protect yourself? Other than my previous advice, I don't know... I have LOTS of doc experience here, but I still have problems.

And Plastic Surgery here is very spotty. There have been recent horror stories published, including deaths.

For this kind of surgery, I would rely more on patient recommendations. If the doc won't give you any names to contact, or offer any other means to boost your confidence in them, I'd say go somewhere else.

Added after I saw the previous post...

Sorry, I don't remember the names. But neither were plastic surgeons. The other was a dentist with a muscle spasm in his working hand. After 5 minutes of injections and slipping drills, I drooled out, "I'm outa here", and fled the scene...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Blimey Ajarn, you didn't have much luck there!

Did you report these doctors, and what happened? Is the guy with the twitchy hand still operating as a dentist???

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Forgot to mention, And this goes for ANY Thai hospital/Doctor,

make sure you ask exactly what he/she's perscribed you, as they will usually not tell you at all, but if they do they will undoubtedly fail to mention a few other needless things they've put on there, like a ton of Paracetamol or some basic cream you didn't know you were getting, just to crank the price up when you get to the pharmacy counter.

Some of these Doc's DO get a cut off of how much medicine they sell.

So be warned!

Well I have to say I've never heard of anything being 'botched' at Bumrungrad, but then I don't spose I would if it did happen!

You can choose what doc you want to do the surgery and you can read about thier qualifications on the Bumrungrad website HERE So I'd check that out first.

(I always go for the docs with a degree from Europe or the U.S)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IT GOES FOR ANY DOCTOR ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

[Shola]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IT GOES FOR ANY DOCTOR ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm, gonna have to dissagree with you Doc P! At least when It comes to the UK and the NHS, you practicaly have to beg for the meds you need!

Thailand is my my first experience of private medical care though.

[Ajarn]

I had a botched procedure there. A procedure that costs 20,000 baht per time...

In my case, it was a procedure that injected Botox at certain nerve points, intended to help relieve the spacticisity in my arm, hand and fingers (stroke-related paralysis). The woman doctor simply didn't know what she was doing, and was unable to properly use the electronic injection machine designed to show her the correct injection points.... 20,000 baht wasted, along with the expenses for travel from Chiang Mai, and the overnight hospital costs...

Yes, they can and have botched procedures there. But how to protect yourself? Other than my previous advice, I don't know... I have LOTS of doc experience here, but I still have problems.

And Plastic Surgery here is very spotty. There have been recent horror stories published, including deaths.

For this kind of surgery, I would rely more on patient recommendations. If the doc won't give you any names to contact, or offer any other means to boost your confidence in them, I'd say go somewhere else.

Added after I saw the previous post...

Sorry, I don't remember the names. But neither were plastic surgeons. The other was a dentist with a muscle spasm in his working hand. After 5 minutes of injections and slipping drills, I drooled out, "I'm outa here", and fled the scene...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Blimey Ajarn, you didn't have much luck there!

Did you report these doctors, and what happened? Is the guy with the twitchy hand still operating as a dentist???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it just so happened I made a DVD video of the whole procedure. I sent a copy to the doc, suggesting she read the instruction book before the procedure a bit more- she was reading the instructions throughout the procedure like a "first, put the probe in your right hand, then,......" I let it go at the time- what else could I do with needles w/long tubes and wires attached sticking two inches into my arm...? The Dentist got badmouthed behind his back a couple of times, and now referred to here... These experiences are nothing, really. I've had a couple of potentially deadly (not an exaggeration) mistakes made by docs here, only caught later by me via internet research... Such are the reasons why I'm always a voice of caution here regarding quality of medical care, and I promote proactive participation.

The facade is almost always good everywhere in Thailand, but this is one area where your life depends on more than the 'look' of the facade. The main problem, in my opinion, still lies with the almost total lack of accountabilty for actions here. This government has been very pro-active in protecting doctors and hospitals at the expense of the safety and lives of patients, even changing what was wriiten into the last constituition as an attempt to support better patient rights.

But, you'll also see glowing reports from folks who've had great experiences and would recommend most any hospital. Everyone's mileage will vary. If I was in your position and HAD to make choice from outside of Thailand, I'd still go for Bumrungrad Hospital. I still feel you have the best odds there, overall.

[charles]

Any first-hand experience of this hospital? Is it good so far?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, all very plush looking and friendly. The docs I've seen there all speak good English. Efficient system when queing/waiting for meds.

Appointments usually on time, if no appointment, usually don't have to wait too long.

And the best thing is it has a Starbucks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have said a lot about Bamrungrad there without, I suspect, really intending it.

Plush looking, friendly, "it has a Starbucks". &lt;deleted&gt;. Reminds of ABAC University, looks like a palace and markets itself well but is it really a top class, serious educational institution?

I've been to Bamrungrad quite a few times, both in-patient and out-patient and I'm far from convinced about this place. And I think irrespective of my budget I'd tend to look elsewhere.

In general it is probably OK, but when you get down to the actual substance of the medical treatment it is nothing special or even "hit and miss". At Bamrungrad you've got to remember that you are paying so much towards non-medical things: the unnecessarily plush building and the interest on their monstrous debts, the ridiculous amounts of "customer service" people/non medically trained staff not to mention the big mark ups on medicine.

I know a private hospital is a business but you really get the impression that Bamrungrad is obscenely oriented towards the accounts receivable. Listening to the staff talk it always seems that is the uppermost thing on their minds - as if that is how they've been trained. Not hard to imagine that this could have unfortunate consequences.

If you're new to Thailand it might seem a very reassuring place for a foreigner but once you've been here a while and can understand Thai etc. you begin to see through it a bit. Many of the staff are not too nice, almost like Thais in a tourist resort who are jaded with foreigners. Of all the private hospitals in Bangkok I've been to, it is also the one with the longest wait when you turn up without an appointment. Last time I saw a Thai bloke waiting for ages there who was obviously suffering (fever), his girlfriend went up to the counter (politely as they do) to enquire how long it would be and was treated quite disdainfully I thought. Certainly made no attempt to help. Not good enough when you're paying top dollar. I just ended up walking out myself and went to Bangkok Hospital instead.

So personally, if I wanted a serious proper hospital with a longstanding good reputation I would like elsewhere. If cost wasn't important, I would like at Bangkok Hospital. For something a bit cheaper, as mentioned above, I would look at Saint Louis, which is a nonprofit private hospital. Only been there as an outpatient and was very impressed. Just as well organized as Bamrungrad, every step computerized etc., and everyone seemed pleasant and competent. No big frills but no bullshit either. Certainly very reasonable price-wise.

But as said, for anything specialist you've got to look at the doctors as much as the hospitals.

Edited February 18, 2005 by charles

[Shola]

Any first-hand experience of this hospital? Is it good so far?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, all very plush looking and friendly. The docs I've seen there all speak good English. Efficient system when queing/waiting for meds.

Appointments usually on time, if no appointment, usually don't have to wait too long.

And the best thing is it has a Starbucks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have said a lot about Bamrungrad there without, I suspect, really intending it.

Plush looking, friendly, "it has a Starbucks". &lt;deleted&gt;. Reminds of ABAC University, looks like a palace and markets itself well but is it really a top class, serious educational institution?

I've been to Bamrungrad quite a few times, both in-patient and out-patient and I'm far from convinced about this place. And I think irrespective of my budget I'd tend to look elsewhere.

In general it is probably OK, but when you get down to the actual substance of the medical treatment it is nothing special or even "hit and miss". At Bamrungrad you've got to remember that you are paying so much towards non-medical things: the unnecessarily plush building and the interest on their monstrous debts, the ridiculous amounts of "customer service" people/non medically trained staff not to mention the big mark ups on medicine.

I know a private hospital is a business but you really get the impression that Bamrungrad is obscenely oriented towards the accounts receivable. Listening to the staff talk it always seems that is the uppermost thing on their minds - as if that is how they've been trained. Not hard to imagine that this could have unfortunate consequences.

If you're new to Thailand it might seem a very reassuring place for a foreigner but once you've been here a while and can understand Thai etc. you begin to see through it a bit. Many of the staff are not too nice, almost like Thais in a tourist resort who are jaded with foreigners. Of all the private hospitals in Bangkok I've been to, it is also the one with the longest wait when you turn up without an appointment. Last time I saw a Thai bloke waiting for ages there who was obviously suffering (fever), his girlfriend went up to the counter (politely as they do) to enquire how long it would be and was treated quite disdainfully I thought. Certainly made no attempt to help. Not good enough when you're paying top dollar. I just ended up walking out myself and went to Bangkok Hospital instead.

So personally, if I wanted a serious proper hospital with a longstanding good reputation I would like elsewhere. If cost wasn't important, I would like at Bangkok Hospital. For something a bit cheaper, as mentioned above, I would look at Saint Louis, which is a nonprofit private hospital. Only been there as an outpatient and was very impressed. Just as well organized as Bamrungrad, every step computerized etc., and everyone seemed pleasant and competent. No big frills but no bullshit either. Certainly very reasonable price-wise.

But as said, for anything specialist you've got to look at the doctors as much as the hospitals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm, starting to look like perhaps the best thing about Bumrungrad IS the Starbucks!

Ajarn, seeing as you made a DVD, and seeing how the Doc was obviously incompetant, arn't you intitled to some kind of compensation, due to all the revision surgerys resulting from that mess up???

Why don't you at least try to make some of your $ back from Bumrungrad, due to 'negligent behaviour' or whatever it's called legally?

[Ajarn]

Any first-hand experience of this hospital? Is it good so far?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ajarn, seeing as you made a DVD, and seeing how the Doc was obviously incompetant, arn't you intitled to some kind of compensation, due to all the revision surgerys resulting from that mess up???

Why don't you at least try to make some of your $ back from Bumrungrad, due to 'negligent behaviour' or whatever it's called legally?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shola, I wish it so cut-and-dried, but it's not. Something like misreading something on those probes wouldn't be apparent on a DVD...

The money is not the thing, and some might argue, 'compensation for what?' I wasn't hurt or injured in any way, just not treated successfully. In this procedure, it takes up to a week for the effects to show up. Simply, nothing ever happened in any way... That is the only way to know that she missed the points...

I didn't have any revision surgery, and I haven't attempted this procedure anywhere else- yet. Only having one hand to use is pretty ######ing annoying sometimes, and this newish procedure has helped many to regain some use of their limbs once the spasticisty is better controlled. But, I'm tired of docs, and I can still enjoy life... Btw, this spasticisity is when the brain sends signals to your muscles to tighten up, and you can't stop it from happening. The Botox paralyzes something in the nerves to lesson the effect, thereby allowing for physical therapy often make a lot more progress in regaining muscle control. My total left side is like this, but my arm is the only completly paralyzed part. My leg is affected, but i can still walk short distances before the brain locks everything up.

Luckily, I have money and good help, so I just get on with my life. I still maintain this is the best time of my life. Really

Edited February 18, 2005 by Ajarn

[srisatch]

I am afraid we, as a result of unfortunate experiences, could not approve ANY PRIVATE Hospital in Thailand......

Remember This is Thailand and Private Hospitals exist for one purpose...To Make Money

If you can, go home...or try and find a Government Hospital that has the facilities...very difficult....

And we would say again to anyone faced with THIS problem...if you have children with problems you need treated here, go to The Bangkok Childrens Hospital...nowhere else. It does not look like Boston or London, but the doctors are, as it were, obligated to be the best they can! But as has been said,,,even there question, question and insist you approve any treatment and medication!

[chaladmak]

I was there once, I think still have their card for customers or visitors. not bad.

[JSixpack]

Medicine is an art. The experience and success rate of the particular doc is everything, esp. when you're contemplating having a serious op. You interview the doc beforehand and find out about his qualifications. Ask him how many times he's done the procedure, his confidence level, etc. This, no matter where you are, West or East. I've heard a million complaints about doctors and hospitals in the West, too. Just recently there was some statistic about how many thousands die yearly in the States because of medical error.

The docs I've dealt with at Bumrungrad have been excellent and certainly just as good as any I've dealt with back in the West (of course, I've only been to average docs back there). I had my entire thyroid gland removed at Bumrungrad and I was 100% pleased and impressed with everything. The docs and staff did a superb job. It was quite expensive by Thai standards, but it was about the same cost as it would have been at other first-rate private hospitals such as Bangkok General. It is also nice to be in pleasant facilities when you're undergoing something so stressful and debilitating. Not necessary, but nice anyway. About the only thing I would have done differently is to have a private room. I forgot about the implications of having a Thai as a roommate and hence all the extended family members visiting the entire time.

[Jai Dee]

The docs I've dealt with at Bumrungrad have been excellent and certainly just as good as any I've dealt with back in the West

Same same...

I was hospitalised there for 2 weeks a couple of years ago and have no complaints with either the standard of medical treatment or the nursing care.

Price was high, but not so much compared with Western hospitals.

My own personal opinion of course, but if I had to go to hospital again I would definitely choose Bumrungrad.

[Doctor John]

Remember This is Thailand and Private Hospitals exist for one purpose...To Make Money

And in the rest of the world , Private hospitals are there to lose money ?

Edited February 19, 2005 by Doctor John

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Remember This is Thailand and Private Hospitals exist for one purpose...To Make Money

And in the rest of the world , Private hospitals are there to lose money ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[wonderer]

My gratitude to all who have replied Quite a couple of mixed opinions, but all in all, doing a poll, BG seems rather favorable. I've also another on the list--Yanhee hospital. So as you can see, we're really doing our homework! Don't wanna travel all the way to end up in a mess.

[Ken]

A friend of mine spent some of his "last" days in the Intensive Care Unit at BG in Bangkok. A year plus earlier he had been diagnosed with Lung Cancer. BG operated and removed part of a lung. Then Chemo. Unfortuantely the cancer spread thru out his body. Anyway, in Intensive Care he complained and complained that he was being miss-treated, man-handled, and tied down at night (because he would pull the needle drips out of his arms 'cause they hurt him). His whole body was black and blue where they had "stuck" him. The Hospital collected a lot of Insurance money to "keep him alive", but finally his wife relented to his wishes and took him home to "die in peace". They wouldn't release him till his wife "coughed up" an additional 150,000 Baht (approx.) that they said the Insurance hadn't paid. RIP. Based on that experience I would be looking for someplace else for anyone needing that kind of care.

[Ajarn]

Another good reminder to all of us planning to croak here someday to make clear plans with your loved ones for your care if you become incapacitated permantley, esprcially in pain....

I know where life ends for me, and I ain't afraid to pull the plug if/when that time comes. I feel I also likely share with other retirees here in my fear of being under the control of ANY hospital for my last days. I've seen these situations here with others before...

I want to get ######ed to death, of course.

[Ijustwannateach]

I've plugged them on here before, and I'll do it again- BNH (Bangkok Nursing Hospital) is the only hospital in Bangkok that has bothered to run diagnostic tests on me to make sure about what the problem was before treating it. Twice they have found the problem was something which needed a specific drug (not the ones the local clinic doctors and/or other private hospitals had given me), and it cleared up after treatment. They are *slightly* more expensive than even the other private hospitals, but they seem to get things right- and it's certainly cheaper to go to them the first time, rather than spend a little money on someone who won't fix the problem and THEN go to them.

A friend of mine was in a medical administration job in Europe, and he never goes anywhere else in Thailand.

"Steven"

[Ajarn]

I've plugged them on here before, and I'll do it again- BNH (Bangkok Nursing Hospital) is the only hospital in Bangkok that has bothered to run diagnostic tests on me to make sure about what the problem was before treating it.  Twice they have found the problem was something which needed a specific drug (not the ones the local clinic doctors and/or other private hospitals had given me), and it cleared up after treatment.  They are *slightly* more expensive than even the other private hospitals, but they seem to get things right- and it's certainly cheaper to go to them the first time, rather than spend a little money on someone who won't fix the problem and THEN go to them.

A friend of mine was in a medical administration job in Europe, and he never goes anywhere else in Thailand.

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good point, Steven. Testing and Research.

In terms of research and being proactive in your own health care, the internet has been a great tool for me. All of the drug stuff your hospital discovered is likely also on the internet, in spades. Much more research data, and also personal reports from patients/victims of most any medical related issue you can think of. And, if you can't find it on google today, check next week for new info, for sure. If you have a new drug from your doctor, you can use the internet and absolutely feel confident that you now likely know more than your doctor. Thankfully, I've had this nice little hit of realization a number of times, which does help me to feel slightly more balanced.

Onward, through the fog

[lopburi3]

Our experience at Bumrungrad was to the point my wife asked to be allowed to die rather than remain (in severe pain) in that hospital so can understand post by Ken. In our case it took another four hours after getting doctors approval (and of course paying the bill) to get paperwork done to be transferred to another hospital. Can say doctor was in tears when informed of the actions of nurse station (which included withholding of prescribed pain medications) and requested we write up a report but after 3 days of this treatment the only thing that mattered was getting out of there alive; and hospital seemed to be doing everything they could to delay it.