Nation: It's legal to courier passport for a visa!

[george]

The Nation writes 2003-09-26 that it's legal to send your passport to a foreign Thai consulate via courier mail and later activate that visa at a Thai border. I am baffled of this serious misinformation...

/Admin

WARNING; Here is the article, but be very careful, it contains a lot of wrong info.

HOW TO...: Extend your stay

Published on Sep 26, 2003

There couldn’t be a more generous country for doling out long-term visas than Thailand. Even a standard tourist visa lasts for three months. And if that is not long enough, a quick overnight trip to a Thai embassy or consulate in a neighbouring country will get you another three months.

Or if you just want an extra month, you can leave Thailand, enjoy 30 seconds of sightseeing in a different country, then turn around and come back in. In fact, at some border posts, those friendly, fellows in the disturbingly tight uniforms at the immigration checkpoint will even lend you their pen to fill out the entry document to the other country, knowing you’ll have it back to them in a few minutes.

Pedang Besar on the Malaysian border is a model of such efficiency. Motorbike taxi riders on the Thai side will supply you with a Malaysian entry card and let you use their backs as a fairly flat surface upon which to fill it out while riding pillion through the one-kilometre of frontier land before you reach the Malaysian immigration checkpoint. You can even stay on the back of the motorbike while being stamped into Malaysia. The bike then does a u-turn to the Malaysian exit checkpoint - more stamps; still on the motorbike - and zooms you back to Thailand before you can say “nothing to declare”.

While immigration officers at Thailand’s land border checkpoints usually extend a cheery welcome to tourists returning after 30 seconds abroad to continue the last leg of their 12-year holiday in the Land of Smiles, those bureaucratic types at various Thai diplomatic missions around the globe can be a bit annoying at times. But I suppose you can’t blame them, that is their job.

Depending on what he had for breakfast that morning, the man in charge of the consular section at the Royal Thai Embassy in Singapore has been known to dash out a memo stating that a Thai tourist visa will not be issued for three months after an applicant’s previous tourist visa had expired . . . so there!

The staff in Hong Kong can also be a little tetchy and nosey sometimes; wanting to know why 48 pages of your passport are stamped with used Thai tourist visas. But you can usually bluff your way through it (Thai wife is pregnant; wanted by police, decided to turn myself in; the shelter for the homeless I built needs attention urgently; honest, this is the last time I’ll ask . . . that sort of stuff).

But at the handy and efficient Penang consulate in Malaysia, you’ll get a tourist visa with minimum fuss on the same day. However, don’t ask for a multiple-entry stamp unless you enjoy being laughed at.

Multiple-entry tourist visa? What’s that?

The multiple-entry tourist visa is as rare as it is prized. It is the Holy Grail of tourist visas. When someone gets one of these, they waves their passport triumphantly in the air for all to see and admire. This little beauty generally allows you four entries into Thailand over a period of 12 months. You still have leave the country every three months, but you can wheel around and come straight back in for another three months before anyone knows you have left. But you have to pay extra for each entry when applying for the visa. The price for each entry is usually equivalent to the cost of the visa proper; that is, four entries will cost four times more than a single-entry visa.

A single-entry visa generally costs about Bt1,000.

So how do I get one?

Easy. There are small Thai honorary consulates in unexpected places all over the world that have no such qualms about thumping a one-year, multiple-entry tourist visa into your passport. So keen are they to charge . . . er, I mean please, sometimes you don’t even have to ask!

These honorary consuls obviously realise it takes more than a lousy three months for a decent holiday in Thailand. The fact that they are reaping four times as much in visa fees is probably not even a consideration.

Maybe you are thinking: “All well and good, but that means I have to head off to some strange city in some strange country, full of strange grumpy people . . . it’s not worth it.”

Nope: Just send them a fax. They will fax you back a tourist visa application form. Fill it in. Courier it and your passport, along with a bank-issued cheque, have a beer, and in a week or so, back comes your passport and a shiny new one-year, multiple-entry visa . . . hooray!

Of course you will need to leave Thailand for 30 seconds to get an exit stamp before you can activate your new visa.

As dodgy as this all seems, it is not. It’s all above board.

Some of the classified ads you see in the newspapers from companies offering lots of no-fuss, super-duper, really long category visas have been known to avail themselves of the services offered by these honorary consuls. Perth, Australia, and Hull (of all places) in England are two such accommodating honorary consuls. But keep it quiet! If too many people find out, it might spoil it for everyone.

Next week: We’ll take a look at lots of other visa categories.

Phil Macdonald

The Nation

Here is the link to The Nation article

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Georgie ...erroneous info from the Nation. He'd be best off sticking to topics he knows about. The cop that addressed the Expat group warned against it too. I'll ask Michael Rentoul of the Bkkpost to comment. The Nation man ain't up with visa info. He talks of 3 month tourist visa's. No such beast, nor is a 4 entry visa valid for one year.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Perth, Australia, and Hull (of all places) in England

After seeing their names in the Nation, I don't think they'll be so accommodating.

I wish he would have commented on how difficult and unreasonable the Los Angeles Consulate is. Talk about the loop of catch 22. Has anybody ever gotten a "B" visa from that Consulate? I would like to shake their hand.

The fact is every Consulate interprets the laws different. Some have reasoning that is harsh; others are fair,while some will even help an individual reach their goal.

[Aitit]

Hello Phil Macdonald!

What kind of journalist are you?

A professional one?

Hope you didn't get any cash for the rubbish you've been creating.

Why not beeing an auther of fantasy-books?

Leave the reality for the ones who understand it, or do a good research (  Thai Visa.com),please.

Anybody who can forward this to Phil please?

[Axel]

Thanks for posting the NATION-article. I might be getting old, glanzing through the paper last night and did not see.

Frankly speaking I was chuckling and do not feel the writing is

contentious (Nice word Percy1) I would call it rather cynical. Let's face it, it describes visa-runs and other facts. (you are here on a 30 day's visa exemption, cross the border, come back and get another 30 days) He mentioned Singapore and Hong Kong missions. I believe he was reading THAI-VISA.

One thing he got wrong: The validity of a visa is three months, means you must arive here within 3 months and than can stay with your TOURIST-Visa for "a period not exceeding 60 days at any time".

Mailing your passport? OK we know it is done. Legal? If you mail your pp which has an entry-chop into Thailand certainly not. For 1 reasons, you are staying in Thailand without a pp while en route. You also might get problems when leaving the country on the previous visa (still valid) after your pp is back but have already another one inside. The ruling is clear, Visa must be obtained abroad. More on this I wrote earlier today, but do not want to emphasize too much on it. I do not need it in Thailand. If somebody wakes up reading these threads the way might be blocked for others.

[taxexile]

yet another example of substandard journalism from our english language newspapers.

when will those superannuated hacks actually get out from their air-conditioned offices and do some good old fashioned accurate reporting.

the article being discussed here just adds fuel to the argument about how badly served we are by the english press .

most things of importance are just ignored, or worse,copied off the wires from an international news agency.

the thai papers have some wonderful exposee type stories on a daily basis,often naming police officers and govt. officials who have taken part in shady and not so shady activities, usually on a local level.these make for interesting and insightful reading,there are also plenty of human interest stories, and some excellent editorial pieces.

these help to give a foreign reader a deeper insight into life in thailand. perhaps the english language papers should take translations of these articles,and educate their readers into the ways of the land we live in,and show us what our hosts really think about what goes on here,instead of the same old stuff,day in day out.most foriegners here have a real hunger for news about thai life on a local,man in the street level. not just the impenetrable and confusing world of thai politics or yet another car accident killing a family on the way to a wedding,or yet another guy captured with a bag full of amphetamines.etc.etc.

come on,post and nation,give us something worth reading every morning with our coffees and pathongkos.

justify your exhorbitant price.

[Khun ?]

The ruling is clear, Visa must be obtained abroad.

If your passport is sent to Hull or Perth you are obtaining the visa abroad (the place of issue is not inside Thailand).

The only way they will get this straight is by limiting the days allowed in country on a visitors/tourist status per physical year. A computer program could easily monitor such thing for them.

I am not sure about a passport must be on a person at all times, I believe some sponsors of work visas hold passports and issue official letters ( do not quote me on this, I have heard this). Also passports are sent out of country to obtain other foreign visas

is this ok ( I have done this but I had Immigration stamp a copy of my passport and current visa).  What about someone posting the laws with correct translation concerning visa and passport requirements rather than each of us commenting on what someones opinion is.

[ChiangMaiThai]

The article also implies that there is nothing wrong with getting another 30 days again and again. Is this true or is there some limit? As I have written previously, immigration tells me there is no limit and I am free to come month after month. But then people like Dr. PP often say that the 30 day de-facto residents are an endangered species. Doctor, could you please give us some more information? What are these comments based on? Any idea why immigration doesn't tell us the same thing? Should we listen to you or immigration?

[mrentoul]

The Nation man ain't up with visa info. He talks of 3 month tourist visa's. No such beast, nor is a 4 entry visa valid for one year.

I cannot see the Post responding to any piece in the Nation, erronous or not. A letter to the editor of the Nation might help.

I can't believe they'd knowingly advocate someone breaking the law. If you're holidaying here you're supposed to have your passport with you; if you want to apply for a non-immigrant B it should be in person, and overseas. You should also have a sponsor, in my view.

The timing of this piece, coming as it does amid the present visa scare in which foreigners have been arrested here for bearing fake visa stamps, is breathtakingly naive. I can't believe the Nation wants to see its readers end up in jail.

I saw this piece posted at ajarn.com yesterday but ignored it. I don't like the folksy way it's written!

These honorary consuls obviously realise it takes more than a lousy three months for a decent holiday in Thailand. The fact that they are reaping four times as much in visa fees is probably not even a consideration.

This guy sounds like the worst of the rubbish that the visa crackdown is designed to eliminate.

[ChiangMaiThai]

Just off the phone with Chiang Mai immigration. I told them that since January I had been going to Mae Sai every month and coming in on a new 30 day stamp. I asked if there was anything wrong with this and if I needed to go to a consualte abroad and apply for a visa. He asked me what i was doing and I told him that I was visiting my girlfriend, which is true. He told me that there is nothing wrong with this and that the only problem is that its a bit inconvenient for me to always be going to the border every month.

So what am I supposed to believe? Two separate immigration posts have told me that as long as I am a tourist and not working, that I may continue going to Mae Sai every month no problem. (the Nation article also implies this, but I think we can write it off as being completely inaccurate anyway) Then people like Dr. PP write brief posts which obviously discourage the practice and even elude to some impending crackdown which will make the 30 day de-facto residents in his words 'an endangered species'.

I don't wish to argue as to whether one should have a visa if staying long term. the answer is yes. But if immigration themselves say there is no problem with staying long term on 30 day stamps, then the fact that one shoudl have a visa becomes irrelevant for all practical purposes. That is unless DR. PP and others know something that even immigration does not know. So do you Dr. PP?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Sorry CMT ...I think we do know more. Do the usual farang thing and take the path of least resistance. Please oh please...when you come unstuck...DO NOT WHINE HERE

[Axel]

30 days here, 10 minutes out or 29 days here 1 day out?

I was waiting for Dr's reply, you asked him directly. For my feeling this is abuse of the rules. At the moment you might be following the law, you are not and 1 day you meet an immigration officer, who gives you 24 hours or nothing.I saw it in other countries, I will see it here. Than I will shout because of this abuse all the other guys who use this loophole will have problems.

[ChiangMaiThai]

Doctor, no my homeland would not be happy, nor would they have allowed this to go on for decades. I hope you can understand that I wish to do things legally here, thus the phone calls to immigration. i hope you can also understand that that is where my confusion begins. They, the very people who enforce the law, tell me that there is no problem. But you seem to insist that there is. If there is, I absolutley want to comply with the law. if there isn't, you are right to some degree, it would be more convenient to continue the 30 day stays for now, with the knowledge that I am adhering to the law. So can you please share the information you have?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Do you seriously assert that you are are a Tourist ?  Gimmee a break

[ChiangMaiThai]

My home country, if it did have a similar 30 day no visa stay would also certainly direct its immigration officers to tell all foreigners that it is NOT okay to stay long term without a  visa. Again, we are told the opposite...

[webkk2003]

General Requirements for Visa and Application Form

1. Current passport with validity of more than six months

2. One completed and signed application form

3. One passport-size photograph (2"x2") that must be taken within 6 months (certain nationalities vary)

4. Submit the application form in person

http://www.thaiembsingapore.org/consular1.html

this is the official site of Royal Thai Embassy in Singapore

And check this out "Royal Thai Embassy" - US

http://www.thaiembdc.org/index.htm

[buasaard]

These honorary consuls obviously realise it takes more than a lousy three months for a decent holiday in Thailand. The fact that they are reaping four times as much in visa fees is probably not even a consideration.

Lucky people, the ones that can have more than three months' holydays. Where is the companies that allow its employees to have more than three month vacations?

Do they need a new employee? ::

[george]

Several off-topic posts have been removed. Also several quarrel posts and spam have been removed.

Please open a new thread if you want to post anything not related to the topic title.

Thanks!

/Admin

[capital]

My two cents,

A friend of mine a Thai businessman had to travel to Mauritania a country in Western Africa, to attend a seminar. He needed a visa, however, there is no Embassy or even a consulate in Bangkok representing that particular country. He had no other option but to FeDex his Thai passport for a 1-week visa to the ministry of foreign affairs in Mauritania

[capital]

Nope: Just send them a fax. They will fax you back a tourist visa application form. Fill it in. Courier it and your passport, along with a bank-issued cheque, have a beer, and in a week or so, back comes your passport and a shiny new one-year, multiple-entry visa . . . hooray!

Pretty much the case during my frequent trips to the Middle East, and it's perfectly legal as well. So... what's the fuss all about?

[Jai di]

I also have just been to the border, i have 3 years worth of 30 day entries, (perfectly legal, according to the immigration chief that i asked to see), why do certain people think it is illegal? It's not or i would be arrested!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Ergo....you are a de facto resident and not a tourist. The end in nigh.

[mrentoul]

I also have just been to the border, i have 3 years worth of 30 day entries,

You are a victim of a lax system...but a willing one. It's now time for you to move on.

[Khun ?]

Just to say something about the article.

I believe it was meant to provide 3 statements of fact.

1. Many foreigners living in Thailand are not tourist.

2. The Thai immigartions in itself is at fault.

3 Once you are in you do not have to leave.

Face it when a country becomes so lax that they condoned

the passport on vacation method of obtaining visas something is going to break. I have never done it but I have heard the same thing for the last 10 years it is illegal.

This being said what is illegal about it. Can anyone show in

writing that states a person must present their passport in person to get a exit or entry stamp in their passport. False visas of course are illegal and the person paying would in most cases be the one to bare the heat.

I have not seen anything in writing of what laws have been broken. I am also sure that most would agree that no country would want long term foreigners in their country with limited means but it does not make it illegal.

[Heng]

I'm sure they could change the laws to make whatever actions they want illegal.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Did the Nation idiot write the follow up article last Saturday ?

[ChiangMaiThai]

I also have just been to the border, i have 3 years worth of 30 day entries,

You are a victim of a lax system...but a willing one. It's now time for you to move on.

Or what mrentoul? He will be told to go get a visa and then be welcomed back? Oh my! If you have information that states there will be real consequences, great, share it with us. But it seems you don't and at the end of the day you just look down on those who have used the 30 day stamp to stay long term.

[Maigo6]

I also have just been to the border, i have 3 years worth of 30 day entries,

You are a victim of a lax system...but a willing one. It's now time for you to move on.

Walkers, Hoppers, Undesirables, Idiots, Ghosts, (sorry if i missed a few) and now.............Victims. It just keeps getting better and better.....  

 

Cheers

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Where do you fit in Maigo ?

[Axel]

Friends, this thing is getting a bit boring.

I also have just been to the border, i have 3 years worth of 30 day entries, (perfectly legal, according to the immigration chief that i asked to see), why do certain people think it is illegal? It's not or i would be arrested!

Whatever was discussed in here on the 30-days-hoppers, nobody said it is illegal. So the immigration chief you asked, was right. If his superiors order the border-stations tommorrow differently, the chief will tell you, now it's illegal FULLSTOP

Is it so difficult just to listen to advice? I believe when reading in here, Dr. P_P has more experience and contacts than probably everybody else. So why not take his hints and advices or leave it. Up to you.

Myself said, it is an abuse or a use of an existing loophole.

I am no expert on visas but have experience for 30 years with immigration people around Asia incl. Bangkok. Whatever you think, they have a proper IQ and know what is going on. If, when and how to close the loophole. Up to them.

From my own experience (another country around here) I used a similar loophole and one day was told, "You have a record of doing so and so. You are right, it is not against the law, but we do not like it. Therefore your application for a new visa is rejected."

So difficult to understand this?

Should the powers in charge overreact, others, genuine tourists will suffer and those I feel sorry for. That's it.